From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 10:59:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 15:59:59 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? Message-ID: Hi All, I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would like to ask if anyone has any advice? I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? Any ideas? What have other people done? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: IMG_7530.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 92503 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 11:53:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:53:20 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <020c01d39b7d$2a075fe0$7e161fa0$@nl> James, The Drebbel has a lever operated 1 ?? ball valve. You could add a deck plate. This covers the valves, looks good with saddle tanks and is very usefull. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2018 17:00 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? Hi All, I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would like to ask if anyone has any advice? I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? Any ideas? What have other people done? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27971 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21957 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 12:32:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:32:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <020c01d39b7d$2a075fe0$7e161fa0$@nl> References: <020c01d39b7d$2a075fe0$7e161fa0$@nl> Message-ID: <385983520.1238346.1517506334472@mail.yahoo.com> James,Since these are simply for stability, I would use two solenoid valves. ?No need to weld into a finished sub. ?I would make a container to put the valves in so they can be oil filled. ?This is what ?Elementary 3000 ?has. ?You can make the solenoid housing so it is part of the tank so it looks good. ?I like the deck idea also-Gamma has a deck and it is great.Hank On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 9:53:32 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv9727273923 #yiv9727273923 -- _filtered #yiv9727273923 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9727273923 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9727273923 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv9727273923 #yiv9727273923 p.yiv9727273923MsoNormal, #yiv9727273923 li.yiv9727273923MsoNormal, #yiv9727273923 div.yiv9727273923MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv9727273923 a:link, #yiv9727273923 span.yiv9727273923MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9727273923 a:visited, #yiv9727273923 span.yiv9727273923MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9727273923 span.yiv9727273923E-mailStijl17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv9727273923 .yiv9727273923MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv9727273923 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv9727273923 div.yiv9727273923WordSection1 {}#yiv9727273923 James, ? The Drebbel has a lever operated 1 ?? ball valve. You could add a deck plate. This covers the valves, looks good with saddle tanks and is very usefull. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2018 17:00 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? ? Hi All, ? I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B.?? ? Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing.? I would like to ask if anyone has any advice?? ? I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure hull.? For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that would operate through them.? Similar to the existing vents. ? OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each tank, for and aft.? Some sort of mushroom valve?? ? Any ideas?? What have other people done? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27971 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 21957 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 12:44:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 06:44:10 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <020c01d39b7d$2a075fe0$7e161fa0$@nl> References: <020c01d39b7d$2a075fe0$7e161fa0$@nl> Message-ID: <9B369DE0-563E-4A01-8B9A-7A6CDD42D507@yahoo.com> James, the saddle tanks don't look very substantial. Could you just seal them & counteract the additional buoyancy with lead at the bottom of the sub. Or use syntactic foam & additional lead instead. Will add to the weight on the trailer, but shouldn't be that much should it! How much buoyancy do you think you will get when you subtract the weight of the tubes? Vance gave us a design for a pneumatically activated valve at the Islamorada conference. I believe Cliff has copied one of Hugh's pneumatically activated valves. I have been designing a solenoid valve based on Vance's design & have been running my ambient with off the shelf solenoid valves. This was not the most robust solution as they are subject to corrosion. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/02/2018, at 5:53 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > James, > > The Drebbel has a lever operated 1 ?? ball valve. > You could add a deck plate. This covers the valves, looks good with saddle tanks and is very usefull. > > Br, Emile > > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: donderdag 1 februari 2018 17:00 > Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? > > Hi All, > > I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > > Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would like to ask if anyone has any advice? > > I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > > OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > > Any ideas? What have other people done? > > > > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 12:51:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 12:51:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James, My Snoopy saddle tanks worked fine, but recently I have become a specialist in building saddle tanks that don't work, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. The first thing I'd worry about looking at those tubes is the proportions. They are really long, which means when you are in the process of diving and they are half full, there is a danger the water will rush forward or aft and destabilize your trim. They might also trap an air bubble if you are at anything but perfect trim. I'd suggest much stubbier tanks, but since you have them in hand already you might want to put them on and see what happens. It's possible that testing will indicate the need to cut them in half lengths, or put a bulkhead in the middle of them. As to the means of valving them, it would be nice to put mushroom valves inside the tanks but I don't know of a way to actuate those mechanically. I've just built a set of mushroom valves but they are pneumatically activated. Note, however, that I had to build them from scratch because I'm not aware of any that are available off the shelf - and it was a three month job. It doesn't mean OTS ones don't exist, but I couldn't find any. The closest I got was a suggestion from Greg Cottrell that turbo blow-off valves might serve, but I'd have to research those as I know nothing about them. The alternative is to use the Kittredge method. If you have sufficient rise in the tubing it works really well, but to get that rise you might need to put the valves on the CT. Or, mount ball valves right on the saddle tanks if you can get a rod to them from a mechanical through-hull. I think Nekton Gamma uses that method. On Snoopy I just had flexible hoses from both tanks go to a T, and from there to a ball valve mounted on the CT. If you figure there's space to do that, it's certainly the simplest method. Best, Alec On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:59 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > > Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > like to ask if anyone has any advice? > > I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure > hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that > would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > > OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have > a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > > Any ideas? What have other people done? > > > ? > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7530.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 92503 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7533.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 94913 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 13:54:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 13:54:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. I have attached a couple of photos. Thanks, Steve ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > > I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > > Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > like to ask if anyone has any advice? > > I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure > hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that > would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > > OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have > a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > > Any ideas? What have other people done? > > > ? > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Var Bal Tks_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 110335 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mtg Brkt_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 117829 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Var Bal Tk Mnt_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 63699 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 16:06:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 11:06:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. All input appreciated! In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 16:33:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 21:33:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil fill them. ?Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a filler plug in. ?I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. ? I am actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. ?Alec has had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use.Hank On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. All input appreciated!In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! Rick_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 17:18:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 12:18:45 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I fabricated an aluminum housing for my prototype using 2 1/2" sched 40 pipe with a heat resistant 1/8" thick lens and a blue globe fitting in the back and oil filled it. The 10,000 luman array is 1 1/2" square and costs $3.00 each but puts out an enormus amount of heat and is about 100 watts each and I apparently have to knock down the voltage from 36 to about 30 to 34 volts or they fry. I want to use three lights facing forward, one on each side in the middle and one light aft and so that's a lot of watts sucking off my thruster bank and am having a hard time finding a pwm to dim them and keep them from seeing 36v. Rick On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 11:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil > fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a > filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am > actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has > had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I > know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and > wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. > > I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say > that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with > incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard > about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much > better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a > lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! > > I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less > lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I > need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to > deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. > > All input appreciated! > In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 17:31:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:31:25 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Rick, I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front. I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want more lumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving. I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter from the muck in the water will be blinding. Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importance constant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the current is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V. You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing, sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & made specifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of the design as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default mode is on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driver some time in the future. You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not with dimming. They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a base. The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light that you can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitors that are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it could fail under pressure if compensated. I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived. Most of the high power leds are around 36V. Let me know if I can help. Emile sells an led light! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Rick, > You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. > > I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! > > I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. > > All input appreciated! > In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 19:36:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 00:36:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter References: <351147730.1596232.1517531772195.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <351147730.1596232.1517531772195@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. ?I want a charcoal ?air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. ?I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with ?activated charcoal. ?Thoughts?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 1 21:28:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 20:28:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, if you send me your email address, I will send you off line the plans for the 5K led lights I designed for my boat. These are designed to work of a 24V DC supply. I have had them in operation about a year and have been very happy with them. I have four on my boat. Regards Cliff On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I > know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and > wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. > > I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say > that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with > incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard > about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much > better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a > lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! > > I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less > lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I > need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to > deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. > > All input appreciated! > In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 05:32:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 23:32:20 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: Steve received a lot of negative comment recently on his intension to mount his scrubbers horizontally, but it looks like that is what is being done in the Dragon submersible; & of course there is the deep worker. I would like to mount mine horizontally & I'm wondering if I used a strong spring to compress the granules whether it would stop any potential channelling at the top due to the granules settling with movement. I guess I could test this. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 384247 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 05:35:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 10:35:51 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and better towing ability. I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. Starting tomorrow...... Many thanks James On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 06:01:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 12:01:40 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve/tow In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: <028b01d39c15$345aab80$9d100280$@nl> James, You can place the saddle tanks a little towards the bow. Towing will improve a lot when the sub is a few degrees stern heavy. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 2 februari 2018 11:36 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? Hi All, Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and better towing ability. I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. Starting tomorrow...... Many thanks James On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I >> would like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main >> pressure hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to >> a valve that would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and >> have a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top >> of each tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 06:13:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:13:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1462648053.1868933.1517569983080@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Both scrubbers in Gamma are horizontal. ?My main scrubber is a rebreather scrubber, they operate in all positions. ?I can see the concern though if the media did not stay packed.Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 3:32:55 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve received a lot of negative comment recently on his intension to mount his scrubbers horizontally, but it looks like that is what is being done in the Dragon submersible; & of course there is the deep worker. I would like to mount mine horizontally & I'm wondering if I used a strong spring to compress the granules whether it would stop any potential channelling at the top due to the granules settling with movement. I guess I could test this. Alan Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 07:00:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:00:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: Hi James, If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best idea... just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to that, I would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net buoyancy of those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in the interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will find they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give you as much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate diameter so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and the pod, that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. Best, Alec On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and > better towing ability. > > I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in > the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. > > With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will > vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. > > I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. > > Starting tomorrow...... > > Many thanks > James > > On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting > attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these > mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my > K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle > tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru > hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > >> > >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? > >> > >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main > pressure > >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve > that > >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > >> > >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and > have > >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > >> > >> Any ideas? What have other people done? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 08:03:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,That was not my idea, it was Alan's.Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James, If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best idea... just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to that, I would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net buoyancy of those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in the interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will find they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give you as much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate diameter so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and the pod, that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. Best,Alec On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Thanks for the advice.? The tanks are simply for surface stability and better towing ability. I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in the conning tower.? The same as the main tanks. With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will vanish reasonably quick.? I will put 3/4 inch pipe. I might put deck plates on as well.? We'll see. Starting tomorrow...... Many thanks James On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy? (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing.? I would >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >> hull.? For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >> would operate through them.? Similar to the existing vents. >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> tank, for and aft.? Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> Any ideas?? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 08:39:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 08:39:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh, sorry Alan! On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:03 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > That was not my idea, it was Alan's. > Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi James, > > If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best idea... > just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to that, I > would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net buoyancy of > those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in the > interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will find > they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give you as > much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate diameter > so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and the pod, > that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and > better towing ability. > > I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in > the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. > > With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will > vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. > > I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. > > Starting tomorrow...... > > Many thanks > James > > On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting > attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these > mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my > K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle > tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru > hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > >> > >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? > >> > >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main > pressure > >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve > that > >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > >> > >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and > have > >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > >> > >> Any ideas? What have other people done? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 08:45:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:45:43 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Cant seal them up, they are only 2mm thick. They wouldn't survive. Im starting to re-think this idea now. I might be doing a lot of work for little benefit and it might not work. I don't think the plumbing is going to work if I pipe it to the tower. There will always be a potential air lock scenario. Valves would have to go on the tanks themselves. What about this? 1 mechanical penetrator into the tank, and home made mushroom\vent valves. failing this, I think I might stick as I am and make them into an extraction system for the shop! I could always attach some temporary floats for towing. ? On 2 February 2018 at 13:03, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > That was not my idea, it was Alan's. > Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi James, > > If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best idea... > just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to that, I > would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net buoyancy of > those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in the > interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will find > they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give you as > much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate diameter > so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and the pod, > that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and > better towing ability. > > I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in > the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. > > With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will > vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. > > I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. > > Starting tomorrow...... > > Many thanks > James > > On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting > attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these > mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my > K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle > tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru > hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > >> > >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? > >> > >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main > pressure > >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve > that > >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > >> > >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and > have > >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > >> > >> Any ideas? What have other people done? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tanks.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 08:48:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 08:48:14 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pressurize them with air! On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:45 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > > Cant seal them up, they are only 2mm thick. They wouldn't survive. > > Im starting to re-think this idea now. I might be doing a lot of work for > little benefit and it might not work. I don't think the plumbing is > going to work if I pipe it to the tower. There will always be a potential > air lock scenario. Valves would have to go on the tanks themselves. > > What about this? 1 mechanical penetrator into the tank, and home made > mushroom\vent valves. failing this, I think I might stick as I am and make > them into an extraction system for the shop! I could always attach some > temporary floats for towing. > > > ? > > > > > On 2 February 2018 at 13:03, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Alec, >> That was not my idea, it was Alan's. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi James, >> >> If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best idea... >> just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to that, I >> would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net buoyancy of >> those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in the >> interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will find >> they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give you as >> much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate diameter >> so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and the pod, >> that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and >> better towing ability. >> >> I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in >> the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. >> >> With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will >> vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. >> >> I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. >> >> Starting tomorrow...... >> >> Many thanks >> James >> >> On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >> > >> wrote: >> > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting >> attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these >> mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my >> K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. >> > >> > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle >> tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. >> > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. >> thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. >> > >> > I have attached a couple of photos. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Steve >> > >> > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > org > wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would >> >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main >> pressure >> >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve >> that >> >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >> >> >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and >> have >> >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ______________________________ _________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> > >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tanks.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 08:50:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 08:50:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry, let me explain further. I don't mean air compensation. I mean just permanently pressurize them. If you wish, mount a mini air gauge so you know they are still pressurized. Now that I do think was a Hank idea a while back... On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: > Pressurize them with air! > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:45 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Cant seal them up, they are only 2mm thick. They wouldn't survive. >> >> Im starting to re-think this idea now. I might be doing a lot of work >> for little benefit and it might not work. I don't think the plumbing is >> going to work if I pipe it to the tower. There will always be a potential >> air lock scenario. Valves would have to go on the tanks themselves. >> >> What about this? 1 mechanical penetrator into the tank, and home made >> mushroom\vent valves. failing this, I think I might stick as I am and make >> them into an extraction system for the shop! I could always attach some >> temporary floats for towing. >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> >> On 2 February 2018 at 13:03, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alec, >>> That was not my idea, it was Alan's. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best >>> idea... just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to >>> that, I would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net >>> buoyancy of those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in >>> the interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will >>> find they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give >>> you as much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate >>> diameter so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and >>> the pod, that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. >>> >>> Best, >>> Alec >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and >>> better towing ability. >>> >>> I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in >>> the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. >>> >>> With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will >>> vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. >>> >>> I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. >>> >>> Starting tomorrow...... >>> >>> Many thanks >>> James >>> >>> On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>> > >>> wrote: >>> > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting >>> attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these >>> mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my >>> K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. >>> > >>> > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller >>> saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I >>> have. >>> > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. >>> thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. >>> > >>> > I have attached a couple of photos. >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> org > wrote: >>> >> Hi All, >>> >> >>> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >>> >> >>> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I >>> would >>> >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >>> >> >>> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main >>> pressure >>> >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve >>> that >>> >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >>> >> >>> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and >>> have >>> >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of >>> each >>> >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >>> >> >>> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > ______________________________ _________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> > >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tanks.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 09:19:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 14:19:21 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1550148759.1872860.1517576629851@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hmm, I might crash into the pontoon and explode!. Im thinking now of just strapping a couple of floats on for better towing and leave it. Then get on with the new boat... On 2 February 2018 at 13:50, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sorry, let me explain further. I don't mean air compensation. I mean just > permanently pressurize them. If you wish, mount a mini air gauge so you > know they are still pressurized. Now that I do think was a Hank idea a > while back... > > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: > >> Pressurize them with air! >> >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 8:45 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Cant seal them up, they are only 2mm thick. They wouldn't survive. >>> >>> Im starting to re-think this idea now. I might be doing a lot of work >>> for little benefit and it might not work. I don't think the plumbing is >>> going to work if I pipe it to the tower. There will always be a potential >>> air lock scenario. Valves would have to go on the tanks themselves. >>> >>> What about this? 1 mechanical penetrator into the tank, and home made >>> mushroom\vent valves. failing this, I think I might stick as I am and make >>> them into an extraction system for the shop! I could always attach some >>> temporary floats for towing. >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 February 2018 at 13:03, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Alec, >>>> That was not my idea, it was Alan's. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 5:01:08 AM MST, Alec Smyth via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi James, >>>> >>>> If they are just for surface stability, I think Hank has the best >>>> idea... just seal them up and forget the moving parts! If I might add to >>>> that, I would make up a few steel rounds that weigh the same as the net >>>> buoyancy of those tanks. Put the steel rounds inside the battery pods, in >>>> the interstices left by a rectangular battery in the round tube. You will >>>> find they wedge down nicely at a very low point in the sub, and will give >>>> you as much righting moment as the tanks. Pick rounds of an appropriate >>>> diameter so they're too big to pass between the TOP edge of the battery and >>>> the pod, that way they can't bounce up and short out the battery posts. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 5:35 AM, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the advice. The tanks are simply for surface stability and >>>> better towing ability. >>>> >>>> I think I will simply pipe the tanks to two Kittredge style valves in >>>> the conning tower. The same as the main tanks. >>>> >>>> With vents at the for and aft of the tanks, hopefully any bubble will >>>> vanish reasonably quick. I will put 3/4 inch pipe. >>>> >>>> I might put deck plates on as well. We'll see. >>>> >>>> Starting tomorrow...... >>>> >>>> Many thanks >>>> James >>>> >>>> On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting >>>> attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these >>>> mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my >>>> K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. >>>> > >>>> > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller >>>> saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I >>>> have. >>>> > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. >>>> thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. >>>> > >>>> > I have attached a couple of photos. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > Steve >>>> > >>>> > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>> org > wrote: >>>> >> Hi All, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >>>> >> >>>> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I >>>> would >>>> >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >>>> >> >>>> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main >>>> pressure >>>> >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve >>>> that >>>> >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >>>> >> >>>> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks >>>> and have >>>> >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of >>>> each >>>> >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >>>> >> >>>> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > ______________________________ _________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tanks.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22344 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 11:34:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 16:34:47 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: Hi steve Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? I really like the colour, very different from the usual. Pond green! On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 12:17:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 17:17:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: <1424601167.2072075.1517591845198@mail.yahoo.com> James,I did do as Alan suggested and mounted tanks for stability that were pressurized with weight to compensate and create the stability. ?It worked well, I used LP tanks.Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 9:35:05 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi steve Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? I really like the colour, very different from the usual.? Pond green! On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy? (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing.? I would >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >> hull.? For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >> would operate through them.? Similar to the existing vents. >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> tank, for and aft.? Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> Any ideas?? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 12:35:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:35:09 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Did you buy just a 7,000lm array and put them in a housing or did they already come in a housing and you filled them like Hank did? Not sure what a driver is either?? Is it a PWM that acts like a driver and a dimmer as well? Do you have any pictures on your projects and photos page of this I can look at and could you send me the particulars offline on where you bought the drivers and arrays? and Cliff, please send me what you have as well. Mahalo! satwelder at gmail.com Thanks Rick On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front. > I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an > overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want more > lumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving. > I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter from > the muck in the water will be blinding. > Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importance > constant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the > current > is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V. > You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing, > sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & made > specifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of the > design as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default mode > is on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driver > some time in the future. > You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not with > dimming. > They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a base. > The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light > that > you can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitors > that are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it > could > fail under pressure if compensated. > I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived. > Most of the high power leds are around 36V. > Let me know if I can help. > Emile sells an led light! > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, > You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil > fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a > filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am > actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has > had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I > know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and > wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. > > I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say > that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with > incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard > about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much > better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a > lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! > > I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less > lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I > need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to > deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. > > All input appreciated! > In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 12:35:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 17:35:49 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <1424601167.2072075.1517591845198@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180201185440.4BJAB.35755.root@cdptpa-web13> <1424601167.2072075.1517591845198@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hmm, ok I am still thinking of ideas. On 2 February 2018 at 17:17, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > I did do as Alan suggested and mounted tanks for stability that were > pressurized with weight to compensate and create the stability. It worked > well, I used LP tanks. > Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 9:35:05 AM MST, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi steve > > Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? > > I really like the colour, very different from the usual. Pond green! > > > > > > On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting >> attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these >> mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my >> K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. >> >> For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle >> tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. >> I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru >> hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. >> >> I have attached a couple of photos. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >>> >>> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would >>> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >>> >>> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >>> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >>> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >>> >>> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and >>> have >>> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >>> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >>> >>> Any ideas? What have other people done? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 13:20:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:20:18 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180202182018.X9OQB.46394.root@cdptpa-web13> James, I believe I will always have the standard fore and aft soft K-250 ballast tanks. In addition I robbed a similar idea from Snoopy utilizing tubes to hold "variable ballast" floats. I just liked the idea of having some additional options for trimming and I believe I will get some added surface stability/freeboard (untested yet). I might also add additional saddle tanks along side my variable ballast float tubes in the future as I want to add some decking with out loosing stability. My in water testing will determine some of this but like you I am interested in towing and general surface stability. Thanks, Steve ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi steve > > Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? > > I really like the colour, very different from the usual. Pond green! > > > > > > On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > > > > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > > > > I have attached a couple of photos. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > >> > >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? > >> > >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure > >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that > >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > >> > >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have > >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > >> > >> Any ideas? What have other people done? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 13:37:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:37:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <351147730.1596232.1517531772195@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180202183710.2I2V4.46555.root@cdptpa-web13> Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. ?I want a charcoal ?air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. ?I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with ?activated charcoal. ?Thoughts?Hank From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 14:24:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 08:24:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, They are 1 atm, not oil filled. I bought the 7000 lm emitter from the manufacturer in China. They make the bridgelux emitters. I had ordered them with the pigtails on as I didn't want to overheat the emitter with my cheap soldering set up. The driver is the circuit board you can see with a potentiometer for dimming coming off it. This is a buck / boost constant current driver, meaning it can take any voltage between 12-54V & boost it up to or drop it down to 36V & also maintain a constant current. Led's get hot & draw more current so need a cc driver to stop them burning out. Not a problem if the voltage is below a certain threshold. The driver was manufactured to my specs in China. As said before, I am going to have this modified. I ordered the housing from a different supplier. The led is screwed on to the base with a heat transferring paste. I have tiny teflon washers under the screws. There is a teflon gasket that the lens sits on & another as a buffer sitting on the led screws as protection against wires shorting on the housing where they are soldered on to the led. I have 4 o-ring seals, two in the base, one at the side of the lens & one on top of the lens. At the top of the photo you can see a mold I made for a cable support & tidy up of the wiring. The wiring was embedded in resin then overlaid to an inch up the pvc wiring with a pvc glue before the polyurathane cable support was molded over it. ( not shown) 6 bolts run right through it with nuts at the back holding it all together. I can mount it using these bolts. longer bolts can be used for mounting if necessary. Alternatively the front plate can be made wider with additional holes for mounting to a hole in the superstructure etc. The housing is aluminium & was marine anodised. I do have drawings on my computer & machining notes that may need updating. The light was tested to 2000ft but would probably go at least 4000ft. You are welcome to more detail if you are still keen to make some up. Cheers Alan > On 3/02/2018, at 6:35 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Did you buy just a 7,000lm array and put them in a housing or did they already come in a housing and you filled them like Hank did? Not sure what a driver is either?? Is it a PWM that acts like a driver and a dimmer as well? Do you have any pictures on your projects and photos page of this I can look at and could you send me the particulars offline on where you bought the drivers and arrays? and Cliff, please send me what you have as well. > Mahalo! > satwelder at gmail.com > Thanks > Rick > >> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front. >> I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an >> overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want more >> lumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving. >> I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter from >> the muck in the water will be blinding. >> Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importance >> constant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the current >> is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V. >> You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing, >> sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & made >> specifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of the >> design as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default mode >> is on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driver >> some time in the future. >> You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not with >> dimming. >> They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a base. >> The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light that >> you can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitors >> that are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it could >> fail under pressure if compensated. >> I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived. >> Most of the high power leds are around 36V. >> Let me know if I can help. >> Emile sells an led light! >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Rick, >>> You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. >>> >>> I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! >>> >>> I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. >>> >>> All input appreciated! >>> In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! >>> >>> Rick >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156122 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 162131 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 15:07:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 10:07:46 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, Very impressive system! I am planning on having 5 on my sub so not sure those would be in my budget... Rick On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > They are 1 atm, not oil filled. > I bought the 7000 lm emitter from the manufacturer in China. > They make the bridgelux emitters. I had ordered them with the pigtails on > as I didn't want to overheat the emitter with my cheap soldering set up. > The driver is the circuit board you can see with a potentiometer for > dimming > coming off it. This is a buck / boost constant current driver, meaning it > can > take any voltage between 12-54V & boost it up to or drop it down to 36V & > also maintain a constant current. Led's get hot & draw more current so > need a > cc driver to stop them burning out. Not a problem if the voltage is below > a certain > threshold. The driver was manufactured to my specs in China. As said > before, > I am going to have this modified. I ordered the housing from a different > supplier. > The led is screwed on to the base with a heat transferring paste. I have > tiny teflon > washers under the screws. There is a teflon gasket that the lens sits on & > another as a buffer sitting on the led screws as protection against wires > shorting > on the housing where they are soldered on to the led. > I have 4 o-ring seals, two in the base, one at the side of the lens & one > on top > of the lens. > At the top of the photo you can see a mold I made for a cable support & > tidy > up of the wiring. The wiring was embedded in resin then overlaid to an inch > up the pvc wiring with a pvc glue before the polyurathane cable support was > molded over it. ( not shown) > 6 bolts run right through it with nuts at the back holding it all together. > I can mount it using these bolts. longer bolts can be used for mounting if > necessary. Alternatively the front plate can be made wider with additional > holes for mounting to a hole in the superstructure etc. > The housing is aluminium & was marine anodised. > I do have drawings on my computer & machining notes that may need > updating. The light was tested to 2000ft but would probably go at least > 4000ft. > You are welcome to more detail if you are still keen to make some up. > Cheers Alan > > [image: image1.jpeg] > [image: image2.JPG] > > On 3/02/2018, at 6:35 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > Did you buy just a 7,000lm array and put them in a housing or did they > already come in a housing and you filled them like Hank did? Not sure what > a driver is either?? Is it a PWM that acts like a driver and a dimmer as > well? Do you have any pictures on your projects and photos page of this I > can look at and could you send me the particulars offline on where you > bought the drivers and arrays? and Cliff, please send me what you have as > well. > Mahalo! > satwelder at gmail.com > Thanks > Rick > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, >> I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front. >> I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an >> overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want more >> lumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving. >> I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter from >> the muck in the water will be blinding. >> Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importance >> constant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the >> current >> is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V. >> You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing, >> sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & made >> specifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of the >> design as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default mode >> is on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driver >> some time in the future. >> You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not with >> dimming. >> They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a >> base. >> The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light >> that >> you can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitors >> that are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it >> could >> fail under pressure if compensated. >> I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived. >> Most of the high power leds are around 36V. >> Let me know if I can help. >> Emile sells an led light! >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, >> You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil >> fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a >> filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am >> actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has >> had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I >> know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and >> wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. >> >> I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say >> that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with >> incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard >> about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much >> better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a >> lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! >> >> I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less >> lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I >> need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to >> deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. >> >> All input appreciated! >> In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! >> >> Rick >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156122 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 15:19:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 20:19:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1960250844.2286457.1517602783209@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,Now don't laugh, but,,, I bought some LED car headlights from China for 30 bucks or so and put them in my fixtures. ?They have a little fan on them that circulates air for cooling. ?They work pretty good at 24,000L but not as good as the light bar. ?Just saying, cheap idea. ?Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 1:08:08 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Very impressive system! I am planning on having 5 on my sub so not sure those would be in my budget...Rick On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,They are 1 atm, not oil filled.I bought the 7000 lm emitter from the manufacturer in China.They make the bridgelux emitters. I had ordered them with the pigtails onas I didn't want to overheat the emitter with my cheap soldering set up.The driver is the circuit board you can see with a potentiometer for dimmingcoming off it. This is a buck / boost constant current driver, meaning it cantake any voltage between 12-54V & boost it up to or drop it down to 36V &also maintain a constant current. Led's get hot & draw more current so need acc driver to stop them burning out. Not a problem if the voltage is below a certain?threshold. The driver was manufactured to my specs in China. As said before,?I am going to have this modified. I ordered the housing from a different supplier.The led is screwed on to the base with a heat transferring paste. I have tiny teflonwashers under the screws. There is a teflon gasket that the lens sits on &another as a buffer sitting on the led screws as protection against wires shortingon the housing where they are soldered on to the led.I have 4 o-ring seals, two in the base, one at the side of the lens & one on topof the lens.?At the top of the photo you can see a mold ?I made for a cable support & tidyup of the wiring. The wiring was embedded in resin then overlaid to an inchup the pvc wiring with a pvc glue before the polyurathane cable support wasmolded over it. ( not shown)6 bolts run right through it with nuts at the back holding it all together.I can mount it using these bolts. longer bolts can be used for mounting ifnecessary. Alternatively the front plate can be made wider with additionalholes for mounting to a hole in the superstructure etc.The housing is aluminium & was marine anodised.I do have drawings on my computer & machining notes that may need?updating. The light was tested to 2000ft but would probably go at least4000ft.You are welcome to more detail if you are still keen to make some up.Cheers Alan On 3/02/2018, at 6:35 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alan, Did you buy just a 7,000lm array and put them in a housing or did they already come in a housing and you filled them like Hank did? Not sure what a driver is either?? Is it a PWM that acts like a driver and a dimmer as well? Do you have any pictures on your projects and photos page of this I can look at and could you send me the particulars offline on where you bought the drivers and arrays? and Cliff, please send me what you have as well.Mahalo!satwelder at gmail.comThanksRick On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front.I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an?overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want morelumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving.I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter fromthe muck in the water will be blinding.Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importanceconstant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the current?is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V.?You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing,sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & madespecifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of thedesign as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default modeis on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driversome time in the future.You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not withdimming.They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a base.The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light thatyou can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitorsthat are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it couldfail under pressure if compensated.I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived.Most of the high power leds are around 36V.Let me know if I can help.Emile sells an led light!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil fill them.? Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a filler plug in.? I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. ? I am actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into.? Alec has had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use.Hank On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. All input appreciated!In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! Rick______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 162131 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156122 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 15:23:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 20:23:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <20180202183710.2I2V4.46555.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <351147730.1596232.1517531772195@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202183710.2I2V4.46555.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,?I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. ?I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. ?My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. ?If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? ?so the same would apply. ?Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I was thinking the same.? In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. ?I want a charcoal ?air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. ?I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with ?activated charcoal. ?Thoughts?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 15:27:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 12:27:18 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question Message-ID: <20180202122718.FE98659@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 15:40:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 09:40:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: <740618545.1479130.1517520788817@mail.yahoo.com> <069383C2-33D0-424E-9423-D2067130AC59@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, I spent hours & hours of time looking at underwater pool lights, dive lights & anything I could adapt easily. Ordered a lot of stuff but didn't find anything suitable. These high powered dc leds are an evolving technology & you might find a pool light or garden flood light that you can oil fill. Most of the components in my light were cheap. Led $6.50, lens only a couple of dollars, driver nearer $50 but you can pick them up cheap without dimming. They have a small potentiometer on them & you can turn the voltage down for a crude dimming function. The gaskets I had to get cut to size. The stainless bolts were one of the bigger expenses. But the biggest pain was making them. I had to make jigs for drilling angled holes from the wiring to a central port at the back of the light & I built about 3 housings till I got it how I wanted. The led I used was smaller than the standard 36V leds & round which I felt would put out a more uniform light pattern. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 9:07 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > Very impressive system! I am planning on having 5 on my sub so not sure those would be in my budget... > Rick > >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> They are 1 atm, not oil filled. >> I bought the 7000 lm emitter from the manufacturer in China. >> They make the bridgelux emitters. I had ordered them with the pigtails on >> as I didn't want to overheat the emitter with my cheap soldering set up. >> The driver is the circuit board you can see with a potentiometer for dimming >> coming off it. This is a buck / boost constant current driver, meaning it can >> take any voltage between 12-54V & boost it up to or drop it down to 36V & >> also maintain a constant current. Led's get hot & draw more current so need a >> cc driver to stop them burning out. Not a problem if the voltage is below a certain >> threshold. The driver was manufactured to my specs in China. As said before, >> I am going to have this modified. I ordered the housing from a different supplier. >> The led is screwed on to the base with a heat transferring paste. I have tiny teflon >> washers under the screws. There is a teflon gasket that the lens sits on & >> another as a buffer sitting on the led screws as protection against wires shorting >> on the housing where they are soldered on to the led. >> I have 4 o-ring seals, two in the base, one at the side of the lens & one on top >> of the lens. >> At the top of the photo you can see a mold I made for a cable support & tidy >> up of the wiring. The wiring was embedded in resin then overlaid to an inch >> up the pvc wiring with a pvc glue before the polyurathane cable support was >> molded over it. ( not shown) >> 6 bolts run right through it with nuts at the back holding it all together. >> I can mount it using these bolts. longer bolts can be used for mounting if >> necessary. Alternatively the front plate can be made wider with additional >> holes for mounting to a hole in the superstructure etc. >> The housing is aluminium & was marine anodised. >> I do have drawings on my computer & machining notes that may need >> updating. The light was tested to 2000ft but would probably go at least >> 4000ft. >> You are welcome to more detail if you are still keen to make some up. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 3/02/2018, at 6:35 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> Did you buy just a 7,000lm array and put them in a housing or did they already come in a housing and you filled them like Hank did? Not sure what a driver is either?? Is it a PWM that acts like a driver and a dimmer as well? Do you have any pictures on your projects and photos page of this I can look at and could you send me the particulars offline on where you bought the drivers and arrays? and Cliff, please send me what you have as well. >>> Mahalo! >>> satwelder at gmail.com >>> Thanks >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Rick, >>>> I have built my led 7000lm 36V lights & are going to use 2 out front. >>>> I have used them on a boat & in the bush & don't consider them an >>>> overkill. I think with the clear water in Hawaii you would want more >>>> lumens as there will be a further distance that you can see night diving. >>>> I have dimmers on mine for low visibility diving, as the back scatter from >>>> the muck in the water will be blinding. >>>> Led's need a driver to give them constant current & of lesser importance >>>> constant voltage. They are reasonably voltage tolerant as long as the current >>>> is controlled. I mistakenly had a 36V led running off 80V. >>>> You can build your own but for me it was a lot of mucking about designing, >>>> sourcing lenses from China etc. I had my led driver designed & made >>>> specifically for me by a Chinese firm. I am not happy with aspects of the >>>> design as there is a certain part that needs heat sinking & default mode >>>> is on if the wiring comes apart. So will be re-ordering an updated driver >>>> some time in the future. >>>> You can find suitable buck boost drivers on ebay as Alec did, but not with >>>> dimming. >>>> They don't get too hot if you run them in water & heat sink them to a base. >>>> The easiest idea, as Hank says is to find a suitable off the shelf light that >>>> you can oil compensate. The drivers however have electrolytic capacitors >>>> that are vulnerable to pressure, so if the driver is in the light unit it could >>>> fail under pressure if compensated. >>>> I have subjected an led on it's own to 2000psi & it survived. >>>> Most of the high power leds are around 36V. >>>> Let me know if I can help. >>>> Emile sells an led light! >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 2/02/2018, at 10:33 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rick, >>>>> You can keep it real simple and just buy water proof lights (LED) and oil fill them. Just inspect the light to make sure you can drill and put a filler plug in. I have great luck with a 24,000 lumen light bar. I am actually buying a clear acrylic cylinder to put my light into. Alec has had luck with this also, maybe he can suggest the particular light to use. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 2:06:41 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. >>>>> >>>>> I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! >>>>> >>>>> I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. >>>>> >>>>> All input appreciated! >>>>> In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! >>>>> >>>>> Rick >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 16:09:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 16:09:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve,?I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. ?I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. ?My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. ?If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? ?so the same would apply. ?Hank > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, I was thinking the same.? In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. ?I want a charcoal ?air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. ?I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with ?activated charcoal. ?Thoughts?Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 16:39:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 21:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect.Hank On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? Steve,?I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. ?I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. ?My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. ?If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? ?so the same would apply. ?Hank >? ? On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? >? >? Hank, I was thinking the same.? In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. ?I want a charcoal ?air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. ?I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with ?activated charcoal. ?Thoughts?Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 17:47:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 11:47:21 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially as it's a lung powered device. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, > I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. > Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 18:41:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 12:41:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sorry forgot link, (getting old) https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.html Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 > scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of > the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially > as it's a lung powered device. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Steve, >> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Steve >> > >> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 18:59:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 10:59:42 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi guys, I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also used in SCUBA compressor filtration). Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would find them in NZ. Cheers, Steve Fordyce On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Sorry forgot link, (getting old) > https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon- > dioxide-co2-scrubber.html > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 > scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of > the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially > as it's a lung powered device. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, > I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with > both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. > Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to > mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as > part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any > results/observations you eventually have. > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my > manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch > makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the > sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you > have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank > > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber > media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't > see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be > first? > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma > and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my > scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and > finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 19:19:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 13:19:42 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> Thanks Steve, I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guys, > I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also used in SCUBA compressor filtration). > > Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would find them in NZ. > > Cheers, > Steve Fordyce > >> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.html >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >>> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >>> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >>> as it's a lung powered device. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >>>> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? >>>> > >>>> > Thanks, >>>> > Steve >>>> > >>>> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 19:21:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 11:21:58 +1100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, I think that's a reasonable line of thinking. Steve On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Steve, > I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too > far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to > avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi guys, > I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your > scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor > filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that > it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to > be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is > a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also > used in SCUBA compressor filtration). > > Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon > and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would > find them in NZ. > > Cheers, > Steve Fordyce > > On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide- >> co2-scrubber.html >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >> as it's a lung powered device. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Steve, >> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with >> both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to >> mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as >> part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any >> results/observations you eventually have. >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > rg> wrote: >> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my >> manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch >> makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the >> sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you >> have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber >> media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't >> see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be >> first? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Steve >> > >> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma >> and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my >> scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and >> finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 22:03:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 03:03:44 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: In our sat systems, our charcoal ?fart scrubber? canisters were separate from the soda sorb canisters for some reason, cross contamination? I would tend to have the charcoal down stream if you were going to combine them just so there was no way any charcoal dust could inhibit the efficiency of the medium. Rick On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 2:22 PM Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yes, I think that's a reasonable line of thinking. > > Steve > > On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Steve, >> I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too >> far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to >> avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >> I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your >> scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor >> filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that >> it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to >> be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is >> a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also >> used in SCUBA compressor filtration). >> >> Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon >> and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would >> find them in NZ. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve Fordyce >> >> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >>> >>> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.html >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >>> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >>> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >>> as it's a lung powered device. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, >>> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test >>> with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height >>> to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as >>> part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any >>> results/observations you eventually have. >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my >>> manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch >>> makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the >>> sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you >>> have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >>> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > >>> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber >>> media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't >>> see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be >>> first? >>> > >>> > Thanks, >>> > Steve >>> > >>> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in >>> Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my >>> scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and >>> finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 2 22:13:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 19:13:59 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter Message-ID: <1594288786.18980.1517627639764@wamui-agami.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 3 12:02:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 09:02:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question Message-ID: <20180203090201.FEACE2A@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 3 15:12:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 21:12:30 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question In-Reply-To: <20180203090201.FEACE2A@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180203090201.FEACE2A@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <037701d39d2b$519b1970$f4d14c50$@nl> Brass/bronze and monel is often used with O2. Steel burns very well with oxygen. Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 3 februari 2018 18:02 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question Would tubing other than stainless steel be a fire risk ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "PSubs " Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 12:27:18 -0800 Hi Everybody, On my O2 regulator and my O2 flow meter I have barbed fittings, I assumed that I would put some type of rubber hose on there, but now I'm wondering if that may not be kosher. What is the story on that ? I would just need a very short piece to go from the regulator to the flow meter. I will have a O2 tank in my cabin for the time being. Also I did get the electronic flow controller that Cliff recommended, but am not ready to do that yet. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 4 02:02:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 23:02:05 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 question Message-ID: <20180203230205.FEAB602@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 4 04:51:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 22:51:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Rick, haven't been able to find much information on CO2/charcoal combo scrubbers. Saw this one... http://www.comanex.fr/details-co2+scrubbers-63.html but it is two separate canisters sharing the same fan. As you say it is looking like putting the two in line is not the done thing. Perhaps a separate activated charcoal unit that you just turn on when needed. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 4:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > In our sat systems, our charcoal ?fart scrubber? canisters were separate from the soda sorb canisters for some reason, cross contamination? > I would tend to have the charcoal down stream if you were going to combine them just so there was no way any charcoal dust could inhibit the efficiency of the medium. > Rick > >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 2:22 PM Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, I think that's a reasonable line of thinking. >> >> Steve >> >>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Thanks Steve, >>> I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too >>> far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to >>> avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also used in SCUBA compressor filtration). >>>> >>>> Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would find them in NZ. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Steve Fordyce >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >>>>> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.html >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >>>>>> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >>>>>> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >>>>>> as it's a lung powered device. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve, >>>>>>> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >>>>>>> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Thanks, >>>>>>> > Steve >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 08:20:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:20:10 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: <20180202182018.X9OQB.46394.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <20180202182018.X9OQB.46394.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: Hi Steve, Ah I see, your saddle tanks hold floats. I assume this will add quite a lot of stability, but if you have the buoyancy compensated with weight down low, surely the freeboard will remain unchanged? Will be interesting to see how you get on with them and what difference they make. How far off completion are you? Anyway, I have decided to scrap the saddle tanks idea. I am going to make some removable "surface floats" instead. They will attach to the side for surface running\towing and be removed to the support boat for diving. Not a perfect solution but easier to make, no venting problems and no hull welding.... Regards James On 2 February 2018 at 18:20, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, I believe I will always have the standard fore and aft soft K-250 ballast tanks. In addition I robbed a similar idea from Snoopy utilizing tubes to hold "variable ballast" floats. I just liked the idea of having some additional options for trimming and I believe I will get some added surface stability/freeboard (untested yet). > > I might also add additional saddle tanks along side my variable ballast float tubes in the future as I want to add some decking with out loosing stability. My in water testing will determine some of this but like you I am interested in towing and general surface stability. > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi steve >> >> Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? >> >> I really like the colour, very different from the usual. Pond green! >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. >> > >> > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. >> > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. >> > >> > I have attached a couple of photos. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Steve >> > >> > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. >> >> >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would >> >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? >> >> >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure >> >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that >> >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. >> >> >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have >> >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each >> >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? >> >> >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 08:51:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 8:51:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mushroom Valve? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180205135124.G2QNI.96228.root@cdptpa-web25> I understand wanting to avoid the welding piece on a finished hull. It will be good to see your results. You are probably right on the freeboard. The tanks I am considering adding (future) will be less susceptible to "burping" and that added benefit might give me more Piece of mind for towing. I might get in the water for early surface testing this fall. Thanks, Steve ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Ah I see, your saddle tanks hold floats. I assume this will add quite > a lot of stability, but if you have the buoyancy compensated with > weight down low, surely the freeboard will remain unchanged? > > Will be interesting to see how you get on with them and what > difference they make. How far off completion are you? > > Anyway, I have decided to scrap the saddle tanks idea. I am going to > make some removable "surface floats" instead. They will attach to the > side for surface running owing and be removed to the support boat for > diving. > > Not a perfect solution but easier to make, no venting problems and no > hull welding.... > > Regards > James > > On 2 February 2018 at 18:20, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > James, I believe I will always have the standard fore and aft soft K-250 ballast tanks. In addition I robbed a similar idea from Snoopy utilizing tubes to hold "variable ballast" floats. I just liked the idea of having some additional options for trimming and I believe I will get some added surface stability/freeboard (untested yet). > > > > I might also add additional saddle tanks along side my variable ballast float tubes in the future as I want to add some decking with out loosing stability. My in water testing will determine some of this but like you I am interested in towing and general surface stability. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi steve > >> > >> Are you having for and aft tanks on your K250 as well as the saddles? > >> > >> I really like the colour, very different from the usual. Pond green! > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >> > James, When you do mount, like others have said, ensure the mounting attachments are beefy enough you can also support some decking with these mounts (if you want). I have similarly placed variable ballast tubes on my K-250 that will also be used to support my decking. > >> > > >> > For improved stability I am also considering adding some smaller saddle tanks in the future in conjunction to the variable ballast tubes I have. > >> > I think for this application Alec's arrangement on Snoopy (1 mech. thru hull in tower) was clean and simple. I anticipate I will do the same. > >> > > >> > I have attached a couple of photos. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Steve > >> > > >> > ---- James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> >> Hi All, > >> >> > >> >> I am adding saddle tanks to Jodie B. > >> >> > >> >> Im not 100% sure what to do with regards to the vent plumbing. I would > >> >> like to ask if anyone has any advice? > >> >> > >> >> I am thinking of putting 2x through hulls on the top of the main pressure > >> >> hull. For and aft of the tower and then piping the vents to a valve that > >> >> would operate through them. Similar to the existing vents. > >> >> > >> >> OR, fit the through hulls at the side so they penetrate the tanks and have > >> >> a linkage of some sort that operates valves attached to the top of each > >> >> tank, for and aft. Some sort of mushroom valve?? > >> >> > >> >> Any ideas? What have other people done? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 12:36:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:36:31 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Cliff, Would love to see your LED set up especially since it seems to be working great for you. Here's my email address. satwelder at gmail.com Thanks On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, if you send me your email address, I will send you off line the > plans for the 5K led lights I designed for my boat. These are designed to > work of a 24V DC supply. I have had them in operation about a year and > have been very happy with them. I have four on my boat. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I >> know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and >> wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. >> >> I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say >> that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with >> incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard >> about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much >> better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a >> lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! >> >> I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less >> lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I >> need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to >> deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. >> >> All input appreciated! >> In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! >> >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 18:10:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:10:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: <20180205151001.FE914BD@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 18:42:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:42:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: <20180205154201.FEA5BF1@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 18:44:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 12:44:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20180205151001.FE914BD@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180205151001.FE914BD@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <8F31C31A-C4E5-47A6-9AE6-410F297F60B9@yahoo.com> Brian, I have had at least 7 blow on me, but off higher voltage. It may be that the load is on & the current surges in, or if there are adjustable pots they may be set too high. On higher powered lithium battery power supplies to motor controllers they quite often have a pre charge resistor ( forget the other name for it) . This lets charge trickle in & fill up the capacitors before full power is put on the circuit. I have this on my 48V lithium battery pack, so does Hugh. Alan. Sent from my iPad > On 6/02/2018, at 12:10 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Not exactly related but I just had a 12 vdc to 5vdc converter blow up on me. . Luckily I was just testing it , as soon as I connected the 12Vdc side it blew ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:36:31 -1000 > > Hi Cliff, > > Would love to see your LED set up especially since it seems to be working great for you. Here's my email address. > satwelder at gmail.com > Thanks > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rick, if you send me your email address, I will send you off line the plans for the 5K led lights I designed for my boat. These are designed to work of a 24V DC supply. I have had them in operation about a year and have been very happy with them. I have four on my boat. > > Regards > > Cliff > > On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. > > I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! > > I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. > > All input appreciated! > In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 17558 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 19:19:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:19:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20180205154201.FEA5BF1@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20180205154201.FEA5BF1@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <732214907.4171088.1517876351792@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I got mine from China and it works perfect, I also got 12 to 24v and it works perfect. ?You must have gotten a dud.Hank On Monday, February 5, 2018, 4:42:21 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anybody have a good source for one of these voltage converters???(12Vdc to 5Vdc)?I think this company makes garbage stuff.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:10:01 -0800 Not exactly related but I just had a 12 vdc to 5vdc converter blow up on me.? .? Luckily I was just testing it , as soon as I connected the 12Vdc side it blew !?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:36:31 -1000 Hi Cliff, Would love to see your LED set up especially since it seems to be working great for you. Here's my email address.satwelder at gmail.comThanks On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, if you send me your email address, I will send you off line the plans for the 5K led lights I designed for my boat.? These are designed to work of a 24V DC supply.? I have had them in operation about a year and have been very happy with them.? I have four on my boat. Regards Cliff On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. All input appreciated!In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 20:18:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:18:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: <20180205171825.FEA2699@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 5 20:58:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 01:58:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20180205171825.FEA2699@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180205171825.FEA2699@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1704735123.4267471.1517882293739@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Sorry, I bought it a year ago and just got around to installing it. ?I can't a clue, it was from EbayHank On Monday, February 5, 2018, 6:18:41 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? What company did you get yours from??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:19:11 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I got mine from China and it works perfect, I also got 12 to 24v and it works perfect. ?You must have gotten a dud.Hank On Monday, February 5, 2018, 4:42:21 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Does anybody have a good source for one of these voltage converters???(12Vdc to 5Vdc)?I think this company makes garbage stuff.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:10:01 -0800 Not exactly related but I just had a 12 vdc to 5vdc converter blow up on me.? .? Luckily I was just testing it , as soon as I connected the 12Vdc side it blew !?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:36:31 -1000 Hi Cliff, Would love to see your LED set up especially since it seems to be working great for you. Here's my email address.satwelder at gmail.comThanks On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:28 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, if you send me your email address, I will send you off line the plans for the 5K led lights I designed for my boat.? These are designed to work of a 24V DC supply.? I have had them in operation about a year and have been very happy with them.? I have four on my boat. Regards Cliff On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have been experimenting with my LED exterior lights which is a field I know nothing about which makes it even that much more frustrating and wanted to get feedback from those who have had success so far using them. I was planning on using incandescent lights but everyone I talk to say that LED is the only way to go. I guess my reasoning for staying with incandescent was that it was a no brainier for me but I liked what I heard about LED. I initially figured that if 10 lumans is good 10,000 is much better but I am finding out that once you get up to that high a luman, a lot of things kick in that you have to deal with! I also am thinking that I can probably get away with a heck of a lot less lumans due to the visibility that we have here in Hawaii so maybe all I need are 5,000 luman lights which put out a lot less heat and don't have to deal with some of the issues that a 10,000 luman light would. All input appreciated!In the dark in Hawaii! not to mention fake missile alerts!! Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 6 23:25:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 17:25:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0299AA89-A8EC-4BB3-811A-6A470E92824D@yahoo.com> Had another look at the activated charcoal filters. There is a lot of information out there with the "Indoor plant growing community" They want to get rid of the plant smell. I am thinking of having a very small unit & only turning it on if the sub starts to smell bad. I will buy a small computer fan & some activated charcoal & see how much charcoal it can push air through without drawing too much amps or cavitating. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/02/2018, at 4:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > In our sat systems, our charcoal ?fart scrubber? canisters were separate from the soda sorb canisters for some reason, cross contamination? > I would tend to have the charcoal down stream if you were going to combine them just so there was no way any charcoal dust could inhibit the efficiency of the medium. > Rick > >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 2:22 PM Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes, I think that's a reasonable line of thinking. >> >> Steve >> >>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Thanks Steve, >>> I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too >>> far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to >>> avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also used in SCUBA compressor filtration). >>>> >>>> Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would find them in NZ. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Steve Fordyce >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >>>>> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.html >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >>>>>> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >>>>>> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >>>>>> as it's a lung powered device. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve, >>>>>>> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >>>>>>> > On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Thanks, >>>>>>> > Steve >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 7 23:31:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Michael Holt via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 23:31:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Control idea: Message-ID: Micro cavitation bubbles on the movement of an experimental submarine Theory and Experiments https://arxiv.org/abs/1407.7711 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 8 11:44:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 11:44:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <20180205154201.FEA5BF1@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20180205154201.FEA5BF1@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, Not sure which company you are talking about, but try www.ezsbc.com and look for switch-mode voltage regulator.? The specs look very good however I have not purchased any products from them yet.? I was planning on using PSU5a (3amp) and PSU2-33 (1amp) for my computer controlled electronics.? Would love to hear how they work out if you get them. Jon On 2/5/2018 6:42 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Does anybody have a good source for one of these voltage > converters???(12Vdc to 5Vdc)?I think this company makes garbage stuff. > Brian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 8 15:03:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 12:03:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180208120340.6CA56D8E@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 8 22:08:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:08:31 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180208120340.6CA56D8E@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20180208120340.6CA56D8E@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6ABA06D9-E872-4426-B64E-49C4B2873693@yahoo.com> Brian, I have ordered a few things from them & they have got to N.Z. promptly. I think you can call free from the States, I would persevere. I buy a bit on line & it's not unusual to have the odd hiccup to sort out! Sorting something out at the moment. Good luck, Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/02/2018, at 9:03 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Not sure what is going on with EMT Medical Co. I had an order in with them and it was taking forever , when I called the apparent hang up was the type of regulator, talked to the guy ( owner I think) , changed regulator type, so still waiting, now he has refunded my pay pal ! Maybe out of business ? Anybody have another good source for a Oxygen tank and regulator ??? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 10:19:24 +1300 > > Brian, Cliff, > in my O2 system I am planning to have low pressure O2 coming through the hull with first a stop valve ( needle valve) Then a manual bypass valve ( needle valve) followed > by a rebreather style solenoid valve & finally a click style paediatric regulator. > So the paediatric regulator will be set just below normal consumption with an automatic > top up from my solenoid valve based on readings from O2 sensors. The bypass valve is > to manually bleed in O2 if the regulator & solenoid valve fail. > Brian could get away with just the stop valve, the bypass valve & the paediatric > regulator seeing he has a larger hull than we do. He could just manually adjust the > regulator off O2 readings. > Cliff, does that flow valve click on & off all the time or is it quiet in operation. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8/01/2018, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 8 23:47:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 20:47:27 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180208204727.6CA78CA2@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 9 11:26:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:26:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180209082629.6CA800E3@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 9 18:33:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 15:33:54 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180209153354.6CA82A6F@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 9 21:49:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2018 21:49:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] charcoal filter In-Reply-To: <0299AA89-A8EC-4BB3-811A-6A470E92824D@yahoo.com> References: <1231662660.2229732.1517603020671@mail.yahoo.com> <20180202210924.OBLST.48025.root@cdptpa-web13> <113540196.2327401.1517607578799@mail.yahoo.com> <5878FBC4-4842-45F3-ADDC-BAC1600E5E2D@yahoo.com> <0299AA89-A8EC-4BB3-811A-6A470E92824D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: From the same company that makes sofnolime (Molecular Products), check out Sofnofil and Sofnocat 423 for CO removal / air cleaning. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 6, 2018, 21:25, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Had another look at the activated charcoal filters. > There is a lot of information out there with the "Indoor plant growing community" > They want to get rid of the plant smell. > I am thinking of having a very small unit & only turning it on if the sub starts to > smell bad. > I will buy a small computer fan & some activated charcoal & see how > much charcoal it can push air through without drawing too much amps or cavitating. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/02/2018, at 4:03 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> In our sat systems, our charcoal ?fart scrubber? canisters were separate from the soda sorb canisters for some reason, cross contamination? >> I would tend to have the charcoal down stream if you were going to combine them just so there was no way any charcoal dust could inhibit the efficiency of the medium. >> Rick >> >> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 2:22 PM Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Yes, I think that's a reasonable line of thinking. >>> Steve >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Steve, >>>> I haven't started my scrubber design, but it shouldn't be too >>>> far away. I presume the carbon would go in the intake side to >>>> avoid the moisture that's a bi-product of scrubbing.Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 3/02/2018, at 12:59 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> I can't see any particular issues with adding activated carbon to your scrubber (and it's used as the final filtration in most SCUBA compressor filters) so long as you avoid dust. One thing to be mindful of is that it's a fuel and shouldn't see high oxygen concentrations. If you wanted to be really fancy, you could also add some "hopcalite"/"monoxycon", which is a granular catalyst to convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide (also used in SCUBA compressor filtration). >>>>> Alan, I have Lawrence Factor (high grade breathing-air) activated carbon and hopcalite in Australia already if you need some, but I think you would find them in NZ. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Steve Fordyce >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry forgot link, (getting old) >>>>>> https://www.amronintl.com/comex-lung-powered-carbon-dioxide-co2-scrubber.htmlAlan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 11:47 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just doing a quick Google I came across this lung powered CO2 >>>>>>> scrubber that has a carbon filter in it as well. The addition of >>>>>>> the carbon filter mustn't restrict the flow too much especially >>>>>>> as it's a lung powered device. >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/02/2018, at 10:39 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve, >>>>>>>> I have proper absorbent coming and will do another life support test with both scrubbers for two people and will test the charcoal affect. >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 2:09:40 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes I have a scrubber from Emile. However, I reduced it's stock height to mount vertically. I am planning on testing the charcoal configuration as part of the scrubber tests. Would be interested in hearing any results/observations you eventually have. >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> Steve, I agree, I figure with my radial scrubber witch is also my manual backup scrubber. I would put the charcoal at the bottom, witch makes it contact the air first. My reasoning is if there is smoke in the sub, it will get cleaned up first ahead of the Soda Sorb. If I recall you have a scrubber from Emile? so the same would apply. Hank >>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018, 11:37:27 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hank, I was thinking the same. In my mind as long as the scrubber media in the reduced capacity (80%) is understood and acceptable I can't see any issues with this combined process. Maybe the charcoal should be first? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> > Hi All,Okay maybe crazy idea. I want a charcoal air filter in Gamma and in the interest of keeping it simple. I though I could fill my scrubber with CO2 absorbent to say 80% then place a screen barrier and finish filling with activated charcoal. Thoughts?Hank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 11:17:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:17:35 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Message-ID: <20180212081735.6CA48338@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 12:19:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 12:19:32 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration In-Reply-To: <20180212081735.6CA48338@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180212081735.6CA48338@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Per ABS UVSHF (2018): CO2 production reference: 0.0523 kg (0.115 lbm) per hour per person The moisture is actually necessary for the reaction. This is why Sofnolime is supplied in sealed containers - to retain the factory moisture content, and to isolate the material from the ~400 ppm of CO2 in atmospheric air. The reaction occurs in three steps: 1) carbon dioxide gas dissolves in the water, 2) the aqueous CO2 reacts with aqueous sodium hydroxide to form sodium bicarbonate, 3) the sodium bicarbonate reacts with calcium hydroxide to form calcium carbonate, regenerating the sodium hydroxide catalyst in the process, and producing water. Overall, the calcium hydroxide is consumed, and calcium carbonate and water are created. As water is necessary for the process, it isn't a problem chemically, but it can become a problem in excess when it begins to dissolve the scrubber particles and allow the channels between granules to clog, or if it appreciably changes the available surface area of the granules that the process gas is exposed to, or of course in intimate breathing loops (i.e. rebreathers) if excess water containing dissolved caustics makes it to the inhalation side. Scrubber duration will be a function of cumulative particle surface area. Fine grades have more area, but also present more resistance to airflow, and a greater chance of clogging once saturated with water. Larger grades lessen these problems, but are less efficient. The technical data sheet for the grade of Sofnolime you are using will list a nominal scrubbing capacity in terms of liters CO2 captured per kilogram of media, but this should only be used as a starting point because scrubber efficiency is dependent on surface area of the media, dwell time, temperature, moisture present, etc. Perform some testing to determine the actual time to breakthrough (>500 ppm) of your scrubber design / media combination. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 12, 2018, 09:17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > Trying to figure out an approximate time that the Sofnolime will last for a "normal" person ( let's me out I guess !) from my reading it looks like around 1.5 lbs would last about an hour, but there seems to be quite a bit of variability . Between the efficiency of the air flow and the other factors that number could change. Also, for those of you experienced with this , does the material become all waterlogged from humidity? and if so is it possible to store half used absorbent? Wouldn't the moisture be a problem? > > Thanks > > Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 12:48:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 09:48:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Message-ID: <20180212094857.8B14E2F1@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 13:11:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:11:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration In-Reply-To: <20180212094857.8B14E2F1@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180212094857.8B14E2F1@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Yes, you can re-seal it. If you ensure that there is no moisture gain, or moisture loss to below the factory-supplied moisture content (used will typically be wetter unless it has been allowed to dry out), and no further consumption due to CO2 exposure, you should be good to go. It will still have a shelf-life though, as you aren't halting the evaporation/condensation equilibrium reaction, so employ used media with caution. Per the rules, CO2 must be maintained below 0.5% by volume (5000 ppm) at all times. Atmospheric air contains 0.041% by volume (410 ppm). Lower is obviously better, and provides a safety margin for scrubber failure / changeover, so I would target the low end by design. It will be more comfortable for the occupants. If your scrubber can't keep up with CO2 production, the level will eventually rise to the limit. Depending on your mission duration, a slow rise may be tolerable, so ultimately this is a tradeoff. If your scrubber can keep up with the CO2 production, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to drive the level down to atmospheric equivalent or better. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 12, 2018, 10:48, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Sean, > > That's way more efficient than what I figured, I was using the low range of an estimated time length. Is it possible to re-seal the absorbent after a short dive? What kind of CO2 level should I realistically hope to maintain or would be acceptable ? 2000 ppm ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 12:19:32 -0500 > > Per ABS UVSHF (2018): > > CO2 production reference: > 0.0523 kg (0.115 lbm) per hour per person > > The moisture is actually necessary for the reaction. This is why Sofnolime is supplied in sealed containers - to retain the factory moisture content, and to isolate the material from the ~400 ppm of CO2 in atmospheric air. The reaction occurs in three steps: > > 1) carbon dioxide gas dissolves in the water, > 2) the aqueous CO2 reacts with aqueous sodium hydroxide to form sodium bicarbonate, > 3) the sodium bicarbonate reacts with calcium hydroxide to form calcium carbonate, regenerating the sodium hydroxide catalyst in the process, and producing water. > > Overall, the calcium hydroxide is consumed, and calcium carbonate and water are created. > > As water is necessary for the process, it isn't a problem chemically, but it can become a problem in excess when it begins to dissolve the scrubber particles and allow the channels between granules to clog, or if it appreciably changes the available surface area of the granules that the process gas is exposed to, or of course in intimate breathing loops (i.e. rebreathers) if excess water containing dissolved caustics makes it to the inhalation side. > > Scrubber duration will be a function of cumulative particle surface area. Fine grades have more area, but also present more resistance to airflow, and a greater chance of clogging once saturated with water. Larger grades lessen these problems, but are less efficient. > > The technical data sheet for the grade of Sofnolime you are using will list a nominal scrubbing capacity in terms of liters CO2 captured per kilogram of media, but this should only be used as a starting point because scrubber efficiency is dependent on surface area of the media, dwell time, temperature, moisture present, etc. Perform some testing to determine the actual time to breakthrough (>500 ppm) of your scrubber design / media combination. > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb 12, 2018, 09:17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> Trying to figure out an approximate time that the Sofnolime will last for a "normal" person ( let's me out I guess !) from my reading it looks like around 1.5 lbs would last about an hour, but there seems to be quite a bit of variability . Between the efficiency of the air flow and the other factors that number could change. Also, for those of you experienced with this , does the material become all waterlogged from humidity? and if so is it possible to store half used absorbent? Wouldn't the moisture be a problem? >> >> Thanks >> >> Brian > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 14:08:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:08:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Message-ID: <20180212110858.8B14FB92@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 15:23:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:23:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration In-Reply-To: <20180212110858.8B14FB92@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20180212110858.8B14FB92@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1657547190.6464833.1518467030072@mail.yahoo.com> There are some white papers you can also review on the PSUBS website to see if they help. PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Life Support Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 12 16:44:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:44:55 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Message-ID: <20180212134455.8B14EA91@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 14 11:58:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 16:58:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent References: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 14 12:11:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 10:11:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent In-Reply-To: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In rebreather diving we will not use sorb that has been frozen. The granules must have moisture in them. From what I understand the freezing breaks up the granules which would alter the characteristics of the flow and surface area of the scrubber. For diving purposes this translate into "work of breathing". I'm not sure how that would affect its use in a one atmosphere submersible which would not be as sensitive to CO2 buildup. Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 11:58 AM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 14 13:22:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 18:22:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent In-Reply-To: References: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <699184448.998939.1518632566074@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tom,Thanks for the input, how can I tell if it was frozen? ?I wonder how it is shipped into our climate?Hank On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:12:07 AM MST, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: In rebreather diving we will not use sorb that has been frozen. The granules must have moisture in them. From what I understand the freezing breaks up the granules which would alter the characteristics of the flow and surface area of the scrubber. For diving purposes this translate into "work of breathing". I'm not sure how that would affect its use in a one atmosphere submersible which would not be as sensitive to CO2 buildup. Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 11:58 AM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 14 13:34:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:34:15 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent In-Reply-To: <699184448.998939.1518632566074@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> <699184448.998939.1518632566074@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <07d901d3a5c2$6abac5a0$403050e0$@nl> Frost should be not a problem if the granules are dry. I never saw a warning on a canister. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 14 februari 2018 19:23 Aan: TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent Hi Tom, Thanks for the input, how can I tell if it was frozen? I wonder how it is shipped into our climate? Hank On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:12:07 AM MST, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: In rebreather diving we will not use sorb that has been frozen. The granules must have moisture in them. From what I understand the freezing breaks up the granules which would alter the characteristics of the flow and surface area of the scrubber. For diving purposes this translate into "work of breathing". I'm not sure how that would affect its use in a one atmosphere submersible which would not be as sensitive to CO2 buildup. Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 11:58 AM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi All, I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. It was quite cold and could have frozen. I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. Any ideas how vulnerable it is? Hank Hi All, I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. It was quite cold and could have frozen. I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. Any ideas how vulnerable it is? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 14 13:42:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:42:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frozen absorbent In-Reply-To: <699184448.998939.1518632566074@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2068520401.935061.1518627493797.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2068520401.935061.1518627493797@mail.yahoo.com> <699184448.998939.1518632566074@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I'm not certain how you can tell if it was frozen. The people I dive with get together and order by the skid. It must get shipped in an insulated container. I would suspect if it was frozen that you would see a smaller mesh size and more dust. In scuba diving it is more of a problem because there really is no way to accurately measure CO2 in the breathing loop. We consider one half of a percent co2 to be scrubber breakthrough. 10 percent CO2 is fatal however due to the ambient pressure involved in scuba diving .005 turns into .1 in a hurry with the increased partial pressures at depth. This would not be so much of a problem in your case because a) you are always at one atmosphere of pressure and b) you are able to accurately monitor CO2 concentration in the sub. Tom Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 1:23 PM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi Tom,Thanks for the input, how can I tell if it was frozen? ?I wonder how it is shipped into our climate?Hank On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:12:07 AM MST, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: In rebreather diving we will not use sorb that has been frozen. The granules must have moisture in them. From what I understand the freezing breaks up the granules which would alter the characteristics of the flow and surface area of the scrubber. For diving purposes this translate into "work of breathing". I'm not sure how that would affect its use in a one atmosphere submersible which would not be as sensitive to CO2 buildup. Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 11:58 AM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles Hi Tom,Thanks for the input, how can I tell if it was frozen? ?I wonder how it is shipped into our climate?Hank On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:12:07 AM MST, TOM WHENT via Personal_Submersibles wrote: In rebreather diving we will not use sorb that has been frozen. The granules must have moisture in them. From what I understand the freezing breaks up the granules which would alter the characteristics of the flow and surface area of the scrubber. For diving purposes this translate into "work of breathing". I'm not sure how that would affect its use in a one atmosphere submersible which would not be as sensitive to CO2 buildup. Get Outlook for Android On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 11:58 AM -0500, "hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank Hi All,I ordered some Soda Sorb and it arrived yesterday. ?My wife picked it up at the post office and it sat in her car all day. ?It was quite cold and could have frozen. ?I read all the literature that comes with it and of coarse it says "avoid freezing" . ?I suspect when it was in transit it was also cold enough to freeze. ? Any ideas how vulnerable it is?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 15 20:04:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:04:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Message-ID: <20180215170432.8B17AAA7@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 15 20:20:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 01:20:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration In-Reply-To: <20180215170432.8B17AAA7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180215170432.8B17AAA7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1796648000.1989609.1518744029333@mail.yahoo.com> Nice On Thursday, February 15, 2018, 6:04:54 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hurray !?? Finally got my E Oxy tank today !??? Nice size? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:44:55 -0800 Crap ! Totally spaced that out, I probably went through all that info years ago !!????Got side tracked building rest of sub !??? A lot of information there.? ?Thanks Jon !? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:23:50 +0000 (UTC) There are some white papers you can also review on the PSUBS website to see if they help. PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Life Support Jon _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 15 20:22:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 14:22:32 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration In-Reply-To: <20180215170432.8B17AAA7@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180215170432.8B17AAA7@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, one thing I really enjoy about the sub build is getting delivery of all this cool stuff. It's like buying your own birthday present. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/02/2018, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hurray ! Finally got my E Oxy tank today ! Nice size > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 13:44:55 -0800 > > Crap ! Totally spaced that out, I probably went through all that info years ago !! Got side tracked building rest of sub ! A lot of information there. > > Thanks Jon ! > > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 absorbent duration > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 20:23:50 +0000 (UTC) > > There are some white papers you can also review on the PSUBS website to see if they help. > > PSUBS.ORG -> Resources & Reference -> Design Tools -> Life Support > > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 05:41:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:41:57 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Message-ID: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> Dear guys, I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations. The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m. This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical. I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far On surface FB FB Water level Weight of all sub = 950 Kg 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. 3. Trim Ballast Tanks FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub. At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. Descending FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. UnderWater FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 864 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 828 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image048.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 10:37:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 07:37:12 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Message-ID: <20180217073712.9F93FA9C@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image021.png Type: image/png Size: 277 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image018.png Type: image/png Size: 479 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image028.png Type: image/png Size: 248 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image025.png Type: image/png Size: 421 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 12:16:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:16:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub In-Reply-To: mzv5elKwWViBKmzv6eAK4g References: mzv5elKwWViBKmzv6eAK4g Message-ID: <000001d3a813$160f68f0$422e3ad0$@telus.net> Your design looks very interesting, Tarek, much like the SportSub line of semi-dry ambients. Does the buoyant force of the cockpit 950kg (2,090lb) include the occupant who will displace the air in the cockpit with a mass similar to his volume of water? Do you have a buoyancy trimming system planned to add and vent air in the trim tanks and cockpit as you descend and ascend in the water column? What source of thrusters do you have in mind? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 2:42 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org; personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Dear guys, I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations. The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m. This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical. I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far On surface FB FB Water level Weight of all sub = 950 Kg 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. 3. Trim Ballast Tanks FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub. At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. Descending FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. UnderWater FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 864 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 828 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image074.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 13:41:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 07:41:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub In-Reply-To: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> References: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: Hi Tarek, no diagrams came out in my email. I would do a full size model of what you intend & get in & make sure the space works. Especially if you intend to have a diver exit in the bottom. Can you get out comfortably with scuba tanks! Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear. Tim's ambient sports sub has a system for adjusting this loss of weight by letting in more water. I am not sure how this works but if you adopted it you would need to allow for a volume of water to come in to the bottom hatchway of the sub. And of course the oposite is true when you re-enter. If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it. Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull seems a similar size. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/02/2018, at 11:41 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Dear guys, > I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations. > > The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m. > This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). > > The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the > Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. > > I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. > this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical. > I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. > > Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far > > On surface > > > > > > > > > FB FB Water level > > > > > > > > > > Weight of all sub = 950 Kg > > 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. > 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. > 3. Trim Ballast Tanks > FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub. > At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. > Descending > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > > > > Water level > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. > The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. > > > UnderWater > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > Water level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. > > At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. > > regards > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 17:27:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 14:27:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub In-Reply-To: References: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: Hi Terek, i completely agree with Alan, as tge limits of the human body will soon be discovered if there are design flaws and you can't escape. I soon found this to be true with my first full scale model of the SeaQuestor. Cardboard and blue tape are cheap and well worth the time. On Feb 17, 2018 10:42 AM, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Tarek, > no diagrams came out in my email. > I would do a full size model of what you intend & get in & > make sure the space works. Especially if you intend to have a > diver exit in the bottom. Can you get out comfortably with scuba > tanks! Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter > to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear. > Tim's ambient sports sub has a system for adjusting this loss of > weight by letting in more water. I am not sure how this works but > if you adopted it you would need to allow for a volume of water to > come in to the bottom hatchway of the sub. And of course the oposite > is true when you re-enter. > If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add > syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it. > Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull > seems a similar size. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 17/02/2018, at 11:41 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Dear guys, > > I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I > am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my > calculations. > > > > The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and > Height = 0.85 m. > > This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an > upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit > of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). > > > > The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that > the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force > produced by the > > Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. > > > > I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of > Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. > > this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable > condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and > critical. > > I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. > > > > Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far > > > > *On surface* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB FB Water level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight of all sub = 950 Kg > > > > 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. > > 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force > of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. > > 3. Trim Ballast Tanks > > FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the > sub. > > At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. > > *Descending* > > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > > > > > > > > Water > level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > > > At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the > Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. > > The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they > are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. > > > > > > *UnderWater* > > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > > > Water > level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > > > Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight > of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. > > > > At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 17 22:35:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Eric Bruhahn via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 19:35:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Hull Calculations Message-ID: Hi All, I've been having issues getting the ABSHullCalc spreadsheet to work for me, most of the function macros show as #MACRO? using Open Office Calc or #NAME? using MS Excel even with macros enabled. So I've been trying to use Procedure 2-2 in the Pressure Vessel Design Manual and having some questions. For a 120" cylinder including heads, 40" diameter with 0.25" thick 516gr70 plate and a Px of 175 psi I'm getting Pa=29.2psi. So, to calculate required stiffeners to raise Pa I'm trying to use 1.25"x0.25" T rings with 10" spacing (Ls) and getting I=0.618, As=0.625 giving me Factor "B" of 1,411 if P in the calculation is 14.7 psi. Now the problem with this is my Factor "B" is not even shown on Figure 2-1g. Increasing my Ls to 20" gives Factor "B" of 1,568, closer but still short of the lowest number in the figure of 2,500. In step 10 am I reading it right as I=(0.16*(Do^3)*Px*Ls)/E ? Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong here? -Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 18 08:58:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:58:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure Hull Calculations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1011232039.838243.1518962305966@mail.yahoo.com> You have to enable Macros.? Different versions of MS excel can be different, but when you open the document look for "warnings" at the top.? I get two of them, the first is called "Protected View" and warns that the document came from the internet and might be unsafe.? There is a button "Enable Editing" that has to be clicked. The second is called, "Security Warning" and is where you enable Macros.? Click on "Enable Content". Jon On Saturday, February 17, 2018 10:37 PM, Eric Bruhahn via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, I've been having issues getting the ABSHullCalc spreadsheet to work for me, most of the function macros show as #MACRO? using Open Office Calc or #NAME? using MS Excel even with macros enabled. So I've been trying to use Procedure 2-2 in the Pressure Vessel Design Manual and having some questions. For a 120" cylinder including heads, 40" diameter with 0.25" thick 516gr70 plate and a Px of 175 psi I'm getting Pa=29.2psi. So, to calculate required stiffeners to raise Pa I'm trying to use 1.25"x0.25" T rings with 10" spacing (Ls) and getting I=0.618, As=0.625 giving me Factor "B" of 1,411 if P in the calculation is 14.7 psi. Now the problem with this is my Factor "B" is not even shown on Figure 2-1g. Increasing my Ls to 20" gives Factor "B" of 1,568, closer but still short of the lowest number in the figure of 2,500. In step 10 am I reading it right as I=(0.16*(Do^3)*Px*Ls)/E ? Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong here? -Eric _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 04:49:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 11:49:15 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Message-ID: <000a01d3a966$e8dcf730$ba96e590$@liu.edu.lb> Hi, I am not sure why the graphs I made didn't go through. Is there anything special I need to do? Tim asked: 1. " Does the buoyant force of the cockpit 950kg (2,090lb) include the occupant who will displace the air in the cockpit with a mass similar to his volume of water?" 2. "Do you have a buoyancy trimming system planned to add and vent air in the trim tanks and cockpit as you descend and ascend in the water column?" 3. "What source of thrusters do you have in mind?" Answers: 1. If I understood your questions correctly, my answer is yes. The Cockpit Buoyant force will be 950 Kg Upwards including the occupants. 2. Indeed I do have a trim tanks aside from the main Ballast tanks. I showed this in the graphs. I will send them again if I know how to add the graphs 3. I already ordered a Brushless 1 HP DC motor from China. I will oil fill it, and try it. If is work out, I will be putting 5 motors. Two for up-down and three from left-right and forward movement. Alan said: 1. Can you get out comfortably with scuba tanks! 2. Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear. 3. If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it. 4.Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull seems a similar size. Answers:) 1. The bottom hole will be enough to get out as the Scuba Tank will not be inside the cockpit. I have been Scuba diving for over 25 years, so that will not be a problem for me. 2. There is a mechanism to allow the cockpit to get heavier or lighter. This can be done by adjusting the Hole where air can be vented out at the bottom of the pit. A decrease of 10 cm in the height of the air filled pit, will contribute to about 100 kg of extra weight. 3. I spent too much time doing the calculations for the Stability (Nice Excel sheet), so I do hope I will not have any problems there. 4. I just took a quick look at Cliff's R300 sub. It seem to be 1-Atm sub, but very interesting. Thanks for all your feedback. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:17 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 56, Issue 36 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dry Ambient Sub (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:16:43 -0800 From: T Novak via Personal_Submersibles To: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Message-ID: <000001d3a813$160f68f0$422e3ad0$@telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Your design looks very interesting, Tarek, much like the SportSub line of semi-dry ambients. Does the buoyant force of the cockpit 950kg (2,090lb) include the occupant who will displace the air in the cockpit with a mass similar to his volume of water? Do you have a buoyancy trimming system planned to add and vent air in the trim tanks and cockpit as you descend and ascend in the water column? What source of thrusters do you have in mind? Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 2:42 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org; personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub Dear guys, I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations. The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m. This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical. I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far On surface FB FB Water level Weight of all sub = 950 Kg 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. 3. Trim Ballast Tanks FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub. At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. Descending FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. UnderWater FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit Water level Weight = 950 Kg Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 864 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 828 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image074.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 56, Issue 36 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 09:35:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 16:35:36 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 56, Issue 37 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I am not sure why the graphs I made didn?t go through. Is there anything special I need to do? Tim asked: 1. " Does the buoyant force of the cockpit 950kg (2,090lb) include the occupant who will displace the air in the cockpit with a mass similar to his volume of water?" 2. "Do you have a buoyancy trimming system planned to add and vent air in the trim tanks and cockpit as you descend and ascend in the water column?" 3. "What source of thrusters do you have in mind?" Answers: 1. If I understood your questions correctly, my answer is yes. The Cockpit Buoyant force will be 950 Kg Upwards including the occupants. 2. Indeed I do have a trim tanks aside from the main Ballast tanks. I showed this in the graphs. I will send them again if I know how to add the graphs 3. I already ordered a Brushless 1 HP DC motor from China. I will oil fill it, and try it. If is work out, I will be putting 5 motors. Two for up-down and three from left-right and forward movement. Alan said: 1. Can you get out comfortably with scuba tanks! 2. Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear. 3. If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it. 4.Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull seems a similar size. Answers:) 1. The bottom hole will be enough to get out as the Scuba Tank will not be inside the cockpit. I have been Scuba diving for over 25 years, so that will not be a problem for me. 2. There is a mechanism to allow the cockpit to get heavier or lighter. This can be done by adjusting the Hole where air can be vented out at the bottom of the pit. A decrease of 10 cm in the height of the air filled pit, will contribute to about 100 kg of extra weight. 3. I spent too much time doing the calculations for the Stability (Nice Excel sheet), so I do hope I will not have any problems there. 4. I just took a quick look at Cliff's R300 sub. It seem to be 1-Atm sub, but very interesting. Thanks for all your feedback. On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 1:41 AM, via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dry Ambient Sub (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 07:41:18 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Tarek, > no diagrams came out in my email. > I would do a full size model of what you intend & get in & > make sure the space works. Especially if you intend to have a > diver exit in the bottom. Can you get out comfortably with scuba > tanks! Also as you go out the diver exit the sub becomes lighter > to the extent of the weight of yourself & your dive gear. > Tim's ambient sports sub has a system for adjusting this loss of > weight by letting in more water. I am not sure how this works but > if you adopted it you would need to allow for a volume of water to > come in to the bottom hatchway of the sub. And of course the oposite > is true when you re-enter. > If you have problems with stability when diving you could always add > syntactic foam up high & more lead down low to counteract it. > Have you had a look at Cliff's R300 on the projects page, as the hull > seems a similar size. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 17/02/2018, at 11:41 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Dear guys, > > I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I > am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my > calculations. > > > > The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, > and Height = 0.85 m. > > This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce > an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a > unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). > > > > The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure > that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant > force produced by the > > Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. > > > > I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of > Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. > > this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a > stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important > and critical. > > I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. > > > > Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far > > > > On surface > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FB FB Water > level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight of all sub = 950 Kg > > > > 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. > > 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward > force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. > > 3. Trim Ballast Tanks > > FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the > sub. > > At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. > > Descending > > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > > > > > > > > > > Water level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > > > At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from > the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. > > The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they > are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. > > > > > > UnderWater > > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > > > Water level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Weight = 950 Kg > > > > Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward > weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. > > > > At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20180218/9267b65c/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 56, Issue 37 > ***************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 10:18:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:18:53 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Dry Ambient Sub In-Reply-To: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> References: <000a01d3a7db$f0a57cd0$d1f07670$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: Tarek, if you haven't already, you might want to review the ABS Rules for building and classing underwater vehicles, systems and hyperbaric facilities (2018). If you don't have a copy, you can download it for free from eagle.org The rules governing ambient pressure subs are covered in section 13. Granted, PSub builders may not be able to comply with everything due to both pragmatic and cost considerations, but as a community standard, we should attempt comply to the extent possible, and be aware of all of the areas in which you don't. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 17, 2018, 03:41, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Dear guys, > I would like to share with you my initial plan for the Dry Ambient sub I am building. I would love to hear any suggestions or comments about my calculations. > > The Dimensions of the Dry Cock pit is: width = 0.7 m, Length = 1.6 m, and Height = 0.85 m. > This will give a total volume of: 0.952 m3. The Cock pit will produce an upward Buoyant force of about 950 kg (I do understand that kg is not a unit of force, but I do this for sake of clarity). > > The total Mass of the Sub is around 850 Kg. So in order to make sure that the sub dive, its weight (or mass) has to be heavier than the Buoyant force produced by the > Cock pit, so I will add about 100 kg of Lead to compensate. > > I did the calculations of the Center of Gravity and the Center of Buoyancy, from which I obtained the MetaCentric height. > this calculations indicated that the design will keep the sub at a stable condition on surface and while descending, which is very important and critical. > I can provide this calculations later on if anyone interested. > > Here is a rough diagram indicating the thoughts so far > > On surface > > [ 1 > > ,3 > > ] > [3 > > ] > > FB FB Water level > > [2 > > ] > [2 > > ] > > Weight of all sub = 950 Kg > > 1= Cock Pit. Volume is 0.95 m3. > 2= Main Ballast Tanks. Volume is 0.95 m3, this will give an upward force of 950 kg assuming that the density of water is 1000 Kg/m3. > 3. Trim Ballast Tanks > FB= Buoyant force = both forces will add up to cancel the weight of the sub. > At this stage all the Ballast tanks are empty and full of air. > Descending > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > [3 > > ][3 > > ][ 1 > > ] Water level > > [2 > > ] > [2 > > ] > > Weight = 950 Kg > > At this stage, the Buoyant Force from the Pit + the Buoyant force from the Trim Tanks will equate the downward weight of the sub. > The Main Ballast Tanks are full as the blue color indicates. Since they are full, they will not contribute to give upward force. > > UnderWater > FB = Buoy Force from Cock Pit > > Water level > > [3 > > ][3 > > ][ 1 > > ] > > [2 > > ] > [2 > > ] > > Weight = 950 Kg > > Underwater, the Buoyant Force from the pit will equate the downward weight of the sub, and it will maneuver using the Motors. > > At a final note, the cockpit will have an exit hole at the bottom. > > regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image048.emz Type: application/octet-stream Size: 743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 13:36:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 18:36:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. ?I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still. ?So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 14:10:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:10:32 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank Do you have any pictures of the light you just tested? are you running it off a buck booster and a PWM/ Rick On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. I have > just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light > works fine still. So there is no need for pressure housings with LED > lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 14:14:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:14:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1137690667.1627667.1519067696175@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I will send you a picture, it is also on Facebook. ?I took a regular LED light that goes on top of an off road truck, then took the internal components, witch is a long circuit board and slid it inside an acrylic tube. ?Then capped one end with power wires potted, the other end is a rubber connector with a plug to act as a compensator. ?The whole thing is fill with vegetable oil.Hank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:10:51 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank Do you have any pictures of the light you just tested? are you running it off a buck booster and a PWM/Rick On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it.? I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still.? So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet.Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 14:17:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 19:17:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <1137690667.1627667.1519067696175@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> <1137690667.1627667.1519067696175@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <684594191.1640400.1519067870568@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, you will have to email me at ?hankpronk at live.ca for your new email address.Hank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:15:12 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I will send you a picture, it is also on Facebook. ?I took a regular LED light that goes on top of an off road truck, then took the internal components, witch is a long circuit board and slid it inside an acrylic tube. ?Then capped one end with power wires potted, the other end is a rubber connector with a plug to act as a compensator. ?The whole thing is fill with vegetable oil.Hank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:10:51 PM MST, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank Do you have any pictures of the light you just tested? are you running it off a buck booster and a PWM/Rick On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it.? I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still.? So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet.Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 14:41:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:41:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43528E8F-555D-4E62-91AD-95F0B8B65A27@yahoo.com> Hi Hank, I just saw it on facebook; 2,400 lm, so is it about 240W? Are you running it with a 36V dc system? I have tested a single 8000lm led to 2000psi, but all the dc drivers I have seen have had those big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors & so haven't bothered testing the drivers & instead have them in the hull. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/02/2018, at 7:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still. So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 15:37:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:37:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <43528E8F-555D-4E62-91AD-95F0B8B65A27@yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> <43528E8F-555D-4E62-91AD-95F0B8B65A27@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1407276430.1712412.1519072645281@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, yes 24,000 lumen and I am running it on 24V ?and the driver is in the oil and tested to 1,500 psiHank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:41:33 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,I just saw it on facebook; 2,400 lm, so is it about 240W?Are you running it with a 36V dc system?I have tested a single 8000lm led to 2000psi, but all the dc drivers I have seenhave had those big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors & so haven't botheredtesting the drivers & instead have them in the hull.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/02/2018, at 7:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. ?I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still. ?So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 16:04:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:04:34 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <1407276430.1712412.1519072645281@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> <43528E8F-555D-4E62-91AD-95F0B8B65A27@yahoo.com> <1407276430.1712412.1519072645281@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <192E9698-F452-4786-BCAC-6D9A4355B0A1@yahoo.com> Hank, so no inverter? that is a 24V light! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 20/02/2018, at 9:37 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, yes 24,000 lumen and I am running it on 24V and the driver is in the oil and tested to 1,500 psi > Hank > > On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:41:33 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > I just saw it on facebook; 2,400 lm, so is it about 240W? > Are you running it with a 36V dc system? > I have tested a single 8000lm led to 2000psi, but all the dc drivers I have seen > have had those big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors & so haven't bothered > testing the drivers & instead have them in the hull. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 20/02/2018, at 7:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still. So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 19 17:15:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 22:15:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED light In-Reply-To: <192E9698-F452-4786-BCAC-6D9A4355B0A1@yahoo.com> References: <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1763635672.1607520.1519065398484@mail.yahoo.com> <43528E8F-555D-4E62-91AD-95F0B8B65A27@yahoo.com> <1407276430.1712412.1519072645281@mail.yahoo.com> <192E9698-F452-4786-BCAC-6D9A4355B0A1@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <467360240.1747271.1519078512450@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, yes 12 or 24 Volt DC built in driver Hank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 2:04:59 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,so no inverter? that is a 24V light!Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/02/2018, at 9:37 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, yes 24,000 lumen and I am running it on 24V ?and the driver is in the oil and tested to 1,500 psiHank On Monday, February 19, 2018, 12:41:33 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank,I just saw it on facebook; 2,400 lm, so is it about 240W?Are you running it with a 36V dc system?I have tested a single 8000lm led to 2000psi, but all the dc drivers I have seenhave had those big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors & so haven't botheredtesting the drivers & instead have them in the hull.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 20/02/2018, at 7:36 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: HI All, I sent an earlier post with picture and doubt it made it. ?I have just tested my LED light internal components to 1,500 psi and the light works fine still. ?So there is no need for pressure housings with LED lights, the components can handle at least 3,000 feet.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 20 23:38:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:38:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, Ian. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 00:06:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 21:06:02 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <20180220210602.B47B3EFA@m0117458.ppops.net> Wow, no shortage of pictures and info ! They say 4 ways to surface, I curious as to what those would be. Drop weight of course, but then redundant hp air? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:38:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 02:33:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 23:33:14 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <1275358826.16234.1519198395054@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Possibly they have an internal/hard ballast tanks which could be operated with a hand pump? Or possibly they count each ballast tank as a separate way to surface. -----Original Message----- >From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Feb 20, 2018 9:06 PM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >Wow, no shortage of pictures and info ! They say 4 ways to surface, I curious as to what those would be. Drop weight of course, but then redundant hp air? > >Brian > > > >--- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:38:50 -0800 (GMT-08:00) > > >For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-102153353 >Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > >More here as well: >https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > >Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". >Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is >1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > >Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > >Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. > >Cheers, > Ian. >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 03:24:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 09:24:28 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0ae801d3aaed$645cc9d0$2d165d70$@nl> Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 11:54:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <0ae801d3aaed$645cc9d0$2d165d70$@nl> References: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0ae801d3aaed$645cc9d0$2d165d70$@nl> Message-ID: <1326574273.3044026.1519232043214@mail.yahoo.com> Guys,I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. ?They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. ?It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. ?I think the sub is fantastic.Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, ? Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 12:04:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 11:04:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1326574273.3044026.1519232043214@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0ae801d3aaed$645cc9d0$2d165d70$@nl> <1326574273.3044026.1519232043214@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My dream boat! That and the next version, the lula. Wow! If I hadn?t gotten divorced several years ago now I could have a submarine instead of an ulcer. > On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Guys, > I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub is fantastic. > Hank > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Ian, > > Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned > -submarine-102153353 > Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > > More here as well: > https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec > tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > > Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating > depth is 300 feet". > Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it > claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test > depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > > Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > > Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > pictures. > > Cheers, > Ian. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 12:39:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:39:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1326574273.3044026.1519232043214@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1256979449.16032.1519187930532@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0ae801d3aaed$645cc9d0$2d165d70$@nl> <1326574273.3044026.1519232043214@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree, in fact I would have bought it myself if I weren't on a bit of a budget at the moment. It's too big for my garage and too heavy for my tow vehicle, but a dream sub in every respect. The thing is, the people on this email list are probably the only ones who would know what to do with it, while the general public would take one look inside and wonder where to start. Best, Alec On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Guys, > I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the > feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning > that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like > the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think > the sub is fantastic. > Hank > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Ian, > > Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org > ] > Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- > electric-s101-manned > -submarine-102153353 > Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > > More here as well: > https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/ > marlin-32-diesel-elec > tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > > Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating > depth is 300 feet". > Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it > claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with > test > depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > > Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > > Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > pictures. > > Cheers, > Ian. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 19:45:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:45:24 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 20:03:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:03:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <20180221170301.B47CC066@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 20:16:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 19:16:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <20180221170301.B47CC066@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180221170301.B47CC066@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <73A217B7-ABAB-44F0-8FC5-A3E787A8C681@snyderemail.com> Indeed! I did look into your question about why oxygen needs to be medically prescribed. Although it is incredibly safe to the average person, someone with COPD or other types of pulmonary issues can hurt themselves with too much oxygen. > On Feb 21, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Next best thing would be a sailboat Greg ! > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 11:04:39 -0600 > > My dream boat! That and the next version, the lula. > Wow! If I hadn?t gotten divorced several years ago now I could have a submarine instead of an ulcer. > > On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:54 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Guys, > I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub is fantastic. > Hank > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Ian, > > Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned > -submarine-102153353 > Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > > More here as well: > https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec > tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > > Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating > depth is 300 feet". > Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it > claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test > depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > > Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > > Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > pictures. > > Cheers, > Ian. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 20:19:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:19:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: emile via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Guys, I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub is fantastic. Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 21:40:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 02:40:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. ?It can be launched from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. ?The only thing I don't like is the depth rating. ?Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy it.Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv8640211971 #yiv8640211971 -- _filtered #yiv8640211971 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8640211971 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8640211971 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8640211971 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8640211971 #yiv8640211971 p.yiv8640211971MsoNormal, #yiv8640211971 li.yiv8640211971MsoNormal, #yiv8640211971 div.yiv8640211971MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8640211971 a:link, #yiv8640211971 span.yiv8640211971MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8640211971 a:visited, #yiv8640211971 span.yiv8640211971MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8640211971 p.yiv8640211971MsoAcetate, #yiv8640211971 li.yiv8640211971MsoAcetate, #yiv8640211971 div.yiv8640211971MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv8640211971 span.yiv8640211971EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8640211971 span.yiv8640211971BalloonTextChar {}#yiv8640211971 .yiv8640211971MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv8640211971 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv8640211971 div.yiv8640211971WordSection1 {}#yiv8640211971 Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface facility.? Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea.?? Sea sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else submarines.? Ask Carsten.? At least his is Autonomous.? High metacentre can be hell for rolling even in a slight sea.? That is my best guess.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) ? I wonder what seems to be the problem??? Maybe sea keeping issues? ? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: emile via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Guys, I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. ?They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. ?It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. ?I think the sub is fantastic. Hank ? On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, ? Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 21:57:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 15:57:09 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that would be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy it. > Hank > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > > I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: emile via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) > > Guys, > > I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub is fantastic. > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned > -submarine-102153353 > Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > > More here as well: > https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec > tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > > Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating > depth is 300 feet". > Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it > claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test > depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > > Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > > Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > pictures. > > Cheers, > Ian. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 21 23:45:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 20:45:57 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: oh4mesuxJicDOoh4negm8R References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> oh4mesuxJicDOoh4negm8R Message-ID: <005101d3ab98$08bed860$1a3c8920$@telus.net> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Hank, Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that would be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy it. Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: emile via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Guys, I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub is fantastic. Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org ] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 07:00:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:00:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <005101d3ab98$08bed860$1a3c8920$@telus.net> References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> <005101d3ab98$08bed860$1a3c8920$@telus.net> Message-ID: <421636189.3631193.1519300807096@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, ?the price is great considering what it would cost to build from scratch. ?I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to be sold. ?The fact that they can't sell it at 80K ?speaks to the market value. ?It is only worth what someone will pay for it.Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. ?I think a big lake is a perfect place for it.Hank On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv0530715915 #yiv0530715915 -- _filtered #yiv0530715915 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0530715915 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0530715915 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0530715915 #yiv0530715915 p.yiv0530715915MsoNormal, #yiv0530715915 li.yiv0530715915MsoNormal, #yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0530715915 a:link, #yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0530715915 a:visited, #yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0530715915 p.yiv0530715915msoacetate, #yiv0530715915 li.yiv0530715915msoacetate, #yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915msoacetate {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0530715915 p.yiv0530715915msonormal, #yiv0530715915 li.yiv0530715915msonormal, #yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915msonormal {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915msohyperlink {}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915msohyperlinkfollowed {}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915emailstyle17 {}#yiv0530715915 p.yiv0530715915msonormal1, #yiv0530715915 li.yiv0530715915msonormal1, #yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915msonormal1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915msohyperlink1 {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915msohyperlinkfollowed1 {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0530715915 p.yiv0530715915msoacetate1, #yiv0530715915 li.yiv0530715915msoacetate1, #yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915msoacetate1 {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915emailstyle171 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0530715915 span.yiv0530715915EmailStyle27 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv0530715915 .yiv0530715915MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv0530715915 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0530715915 div.yiv0530715915WordSection1 {}#yiv0530715915 Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn.? No joy. Tim ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) ? Hank, Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that would be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! Alan Sent from my iPad On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. ?It can be launched from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. ?The only thing I don't like is the depth rating. ?Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy it. Hank ? On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface facility.? Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea.?? Sea sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else submarines.? Ask Carsten.? At least his is Autonomous.? High metacentre can be hell for rolling even in a slight sea.? That is my best guess.? Hugh ? From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) ? I wonder what seems to be the problem??? Maybe sea keeping issues? ? Brian ? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: emile via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Guys, I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the feeling that they have no idea what they have there. ?They are learning that it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. ?It also seems like the sub has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. ?I think the sub is fantastic. Hank ? On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? ? Hi Ian, Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned -submarine-102153353 Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. More here as well: https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating depth is 300 feet". Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, it claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) pictures. Cheers, ? Ian. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 09:08:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:08:35 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <421636189.3631193.1519300807096@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> <005101d3ab98$08bed860$1a3c8920$@telus.net> <421636189.3631193.1519300807096@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when they really need to get rid of it.. On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from > scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to > be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market > value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. > Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I think a > big lake is a perfect place for it. > Hank > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. > > Tim > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > > Hank, > > Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that > would > > be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched > from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is > the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy > it. > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface > facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea > sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else > submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can > be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > > I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: emile via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) > > Guys, > > I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the > feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that > it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub > has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub > is fantastic. > > Hank > > > > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Hi Ian, > > Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > > Br, Emile > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned > -submarine-102153353 > Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > > More here as well: > https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec > tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > > Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating > depth is 300 feet". > Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it > claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test > depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. > > Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > > Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > pictures. > > Cheers, > Ian. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 09:08:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 14:08:55 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: References: <20180221164524.B47CC323@m0117565.ppops.net> <001c01d3ab7b$2353fbf0$69fbf3d0$@gmail.com> <776781972.3400677.1519267230988@mail.yahoo.com> <005101d3ab98$08bed860$1a3c8920$@telus.net> <421636189.3631193.1519300807096@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: would be nice to see it in our community and in action. On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland wrote: > Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you > think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when > they really need to get rid of it.. > > On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to >> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I think a >> big lake is a perfect place for it. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >> >> >> Hank, >> >> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >> would >> >> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >> >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched >> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is >> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy >> it. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea >> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can >> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >> >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >> >> >> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Guys, >> >> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that >> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub >> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub >> is fantastic. >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi Ian, >> >> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >> >> Br, Emile >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >> >> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned >> -submarine-102153353 >> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >> >> More here as well: >> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec >> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 >> >> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating >> depth is 300 feet". >> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it >> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test >> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >> >> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >> >> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >> pictures. >> >> Cheers, >> Ian. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 16:23:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 13:23:35 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) -----Original Message----- >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > wrote: >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you >> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when >> they really need to get rid of it.. >> >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to >>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I think a >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>> would >>> >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is >>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy >>> it. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub >>> is fantastic. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned >>> -submarine-102153353 >>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >>> >>> More here as well: >>> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 >>> >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating >>> depth is 300 feet". >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>> >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>> >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>> pictures. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ian. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 16:58:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:58:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general public. :) Alec On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into > buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. > > But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's > problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), > deferred maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending > more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... > Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) > > -----Original Message----- > >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > > > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > > wrote: > >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you > >> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when > >> they really need to get rid of it.. > >> > >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from > >>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will > need to > >>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market > >>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. > >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I > think a > >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hank, > >>> > >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like > that > >>> would > >>> > >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! > >>> > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> > >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be > launched > >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't > like is > >>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I > will buy > >>> it. > >>> > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface > >>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. > Sea > >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else > >>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High > metacentre can > >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) > >>> > >>> Guys, > >>> > >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the > >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are > learning that > >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like > the sub > >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think > the sub > >>> is fantastic. > >>> > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Ian, > >>> > >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > >>> > >>> Br, Emile > >>> > >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > >>> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- > electric-s101-manned > >>> -submarine-102153353 > >>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > >>> > >>> More here as well: > >>> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/ > marlin-32-diesel-elec > >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > >>> > >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max > operating > >>> depth is 300 feet". > >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For > example, it > >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused > with test > >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules > either. > >>> > >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > >>> > >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > >>> pictures. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Ian. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 17:22:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 22:22:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> To Old? ?I had the pleasure of meeting an elderly gentleman that was building a sailboat. ?I was driving down the road one afternoon and and noticed a steel hull protruding from a shop. ?Of coarse I had to investigate, I knocked on the door to the house and this little tiny OLD fellow comes out and I ask him about the boat. ?He was in absolute heaven that someone was interested in his project. ?He gave me the grand tour and told me he was 86 or so, I can't really remember. ?He told me he was going to sail around the world in this boat. ?So clearly your never to old, sadly he died and the boat was scrapped.Hank On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 2:59:17 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general public.? :) Alec?? On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred maintenance, misuse, etc..? Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod...? Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) -----Original Message----- >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > wrote: >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer.? $30K or whatever you >> think.? You never know they may take it.? Probably not now, but when >> they really need to get rid of it.. >> >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Alan,? the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>> scratch.? I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to >>> be sold.? The fact that they can't sell it at 80K? speaks to the market >>> value.? It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine.? I think a >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn.? No joy. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>> would >>> >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover.? It can be launched >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton.? The only thing I don't like is >>> the depth rating.? Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy >>> it. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>> facility.? Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea.? ?Sea >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>> submarines.? Ask Carsten.? At least his is Autonomous.? High metacentre can >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea.? That is my best guess.? Hugh >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem?? ?Maybe sea keeping issues? >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there.? They are learning that >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub.? It also seems like the sub >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard.? I think the sub >>> is fantastic. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- bounces at psubs.org] >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs. org >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>> http://www.boattrader.com/ listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- electric-s101-manned >>> -submarine-102153353 >>> Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. >>> >>> More here as well: >>> https://www.popyachts.com/ submersible-vessels-for-sale/ marlin-32-diesel-elec >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in- vero-beach-florida-40442 >>> >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating >>> depth is 300 feet". >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, it >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>> >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>> >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>> pictures. >>> >>> Cheers, >>>? ?Ian. >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >_____________________________ __________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Feb 22 19:00:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:00:26 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Message-ID: <811081327.13207.1519344027139@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 04:35:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 10:35:42 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <811081327.13207.1519344027139@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <811081327.13207.1519344027139@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0c8f01d3ac89$ac82d9f0$05888dd0$@nl> Ian, all, First hand info: Generally it is pretty good. The design is about 160m to Lloyds rules but it has never been pressure tested Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: vrijdag 23 februari 2018 1:00 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Hi Alec, I believe (from the spending too much time looking the those photos) there is a flange at the rear which can be unbolted to remove the diesel and other equipment. Problem solved, I should buy it! :) Yeah, I don't see/expect design flaws with S101. I thought S101 had an original operation depth of 1000ft, but perhaps I'm getting it mixed up with S102? Cheers! Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Feb 22, 2018 1:58 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general public. :) Alec On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) -----Original Message----- >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > wrote: >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you >> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when >> they really need to get rid of it.. >> >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to >>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I think a >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>> would >>> >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is >>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy >>> it. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub >>> is fantastic. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned >>> -submarine-102153353 >>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >>> >>> More here as well: >>> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 >>> >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating >>> depth is 300 feet". >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>> >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>> >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>> pictures. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ian. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 06:12:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:12:56 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >"sadly he died and the boat was scrapped. " Sorry, but that last comment really cheered up my Friday! On 22 February 2018 at 22:22, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > To Old? > I had the pleasure of meeting an elderly gentleman that was building a > sailboat. I was driving down the road one afternoon and and noticed a steel > hull protruding from a shop. Of coarse I had to investigate, I knocked on > the door to the house and this little tiny OLD fellow comes out and I ask > him about the boat. He was in absolute heaven that someone was interested > in his project. He gave me the grand tour and told me he was 86 or so, I > can't really remember. He told me he was going to sail around the world in > this boat. So clearly your never to old, sadly he died and the boat was > scrapped. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 2:59:17 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub > forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no > coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel > electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get > that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible > to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. > Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does > when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. > But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the > contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a > 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the > boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum > trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp > without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's > not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for > members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many > years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general > public. > > :) > > Alec > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into > buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. > > But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's > problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred > maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time > fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... Only if I > was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) > > -----Original Message----- >>From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >>Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >>would be nice to see it in our community and in action. >> >>On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland >> wrote: >>> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you >>> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when >>> they really need to get rid of it.. >>> >>> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need >>>> to >>>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >>>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I >>>> think a >>>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> >>>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>>> would >>>> >>>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be >>>> launched >>>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like >>>> is >>>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will >>>> buy >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. >>>> Sea >>>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre >>>> can >>>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> org> >>>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Guys, >>>> >>>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning >>>> that >>>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the >>>> sub >>>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the >>>> sub >>>> is fantastic. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Ian, >>>> >>>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>>> >>>> Br, Emile >>>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs. org >>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>>> http://www.boattrader.com/ listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- >>>> electric-s101-manned >>>> -submarine-102153353 >>>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >>>> >>>> More here as well: >>>> https://www.popyachts.com/ submersible-vessels-for-sale/ >>>> marlin-32-diesel-elec >>>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in- vero-beach-florida-40442 >>>> >>>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max >>>> operating >>>> depth is 300 feet". >>>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, >>>> it >>>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with >>>> test >>>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>>> >>>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>>> >>>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>>> pictures. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ian. >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>_____________________________ __________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 06:37:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:37:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1662284855.4280769.1519385854844@mail.yahoo.com> James,The old fellow was an inspiration and a real character. ?He loved working on the boat and probably didn't care if he sailed it. I know I enjoy building my subs more than diving them.Hank On Friday, February 23, 2018, 4:13:15 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >"sadly he died and the boat was scrapped. " Sorry, but that last comment really cheered up my Friday! On 22 February 2018 at 22:22, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > To Old? > I had the pleasure of meeting an elderly gentleman that was building a > sailboat.? I was driving down the road one afternoon and and noticed a steel > hull protruding from a shop.? Of coarse I had to investigate, I knocked on > the door to the house and this little tiny OLD fellow comes out and I ask > him about the boat.? He was in absolute heaven that someone was interested > in his project.? He gave me the grand tour and told me he was 86 or so, I > can't really remember.? He told me he was going to sail around the world in > this boat.? So clearly your never to old, sadly he died and the boat was > scrapped. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 2:59:17 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub > forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no > coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel > electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get > that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible > to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. > Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does > when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. > But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the > contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a > 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the > boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum > trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp > without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's > not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for > members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many > years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general > public. > > :) > > Alec > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into > buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. > > But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's > problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred > maintenance, misuse, etc..? Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time > fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod...? Only if I > was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) > > -----Original Message----- >>From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >>Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >>would be nice to see it in our community and in action. >> >>On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland >> wrote: >>> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer.? $30K or whatever you >>> think.? You never know they may take it.? Probably not now, but when >>> they really need to get rid of it.. >>> >>> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Alan,? the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>>> scratch.? I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need >>>> to >>>> be sold.? The fact that they can't sell it at 80K? speaks to the market >>>> value.? It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine.? I >>>> think a >>>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn.? No joy. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> >>>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>>> would >>>> >>>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover.? It can be >>>> launched >>>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton.? The only thing I don't like >>>> is >>>> the depth rating.? Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will >>>> buy >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>>> facility.? Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. >>>> Sea >>>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>>> submarines.? Ask Carsten.? At least his is Autonomous.? High metacentre >>>> can >>>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea.? That is my best guess.? Hugh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder what seems to be the problem?? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> org> >>>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Guys, >>>> >>>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there.? They are learning >>>> that >>>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub.? It also seems like the >>>> sub >>>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard.? I think the >>>> sub >>>> is fantastic. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Ian, >>>> >>>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>>> >>>> Br, Emile >>>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs. org >>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>>> http://www.boattrader.com/ listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- >>>> electric-s101-manned >>>> -submarine-102153353 >>>> Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. >>>> >>>> More here as well: >>>> https://www.popyachts.com/ submersible-vessels-for-sale/ >>>> marlin-32-diesel-elec >>>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in- vero-beach-florida-40442 >>>> >>>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max >>>> operating >>>> depth is 300 feet". >>>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, >>>> it >>>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with >>>> test >>>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>>> >>>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>>> >>>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>>> pictures. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>>? Ian. >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>_____________________________ __________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 06:42:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:42:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1662284855.4280769.1519385854844@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> <1662284855.4280769.1519385854844@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <817281936.4235081.1519386155297@mail.yahoo.com> I think I read that the S101 was not certified because the certifying body did not like the reinforcing ?rings or spacing or something along that line. ?It must have been pressure tested after the overhaul. ??Hank On Friday, February 23, 2018, 4:37:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,The old fellow was an inspiration and a real character. ?He loved working on the boat and probably didn't care if he sailed it. I know I enjoy building my subs more than diving them.Hank On Friday, February 23, 2018, 4:13:15 AM MST, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >"sadly he died and the boat was scrapped. " Sorry, but that last comment really cheered up my Friday! On 22 February 2018 at 22:22, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > To Old? > I had the pleasure of meeting an elderly gentleman that was building a > sailboat.? I was driving down the road one afternoon and and noticed a steel > hull protruding from a shop.? Of coarse I had to investigate, I knocked on > the door to the house and this little tiny OLD fellow comes out and I ask > him about the boat.? He was in absolute heaven that someone was interested > in his project.? He gave me the grand tour and told me he was 86 or so, I > can't really remember.? He told me he was going to sail around the world in > this boat.? So clearly your never to old, sadly he died and the boat was > scrapped. > Hank > > On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 2:59:17 PM MST, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub > forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no > coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel > electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get > that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible > to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. > Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does > when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. > But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the > contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a > 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the > boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum > trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp > without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's > not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for > members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many > years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general > public. > > :) > > Alec > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into > buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. > > But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's > problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred > maintenance, misuse, etc..? Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time > fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod...? Only if I > was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) > > -----Original Message----- >>From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >>Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >> >>would be nice to see it in our community and in action. >> >>On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland >> wrote: >>> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer.? $30K or whatever you >>> think.? You never know they may take it.? Probably not now, but when >>> they really need to get rid of it.. >>> >>> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Alan,? the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>>> scratch.? I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need >>>> to >>>> be sold.? The fact that they can't sell it at 80K? speaks to the market >>>> value.? It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine.? I >>>> think a >>>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn.? No joy. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> >>>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>>> would >>>> >>>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover.? It can be >>>> launched >>>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton.? The only thing I don't like >>>> is >>>> the depth rating.? Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will >>>> buy >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>>> facility.? Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. >>>> Sea >>>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>>> submarines.? Ask Carsten.? At least his is Autonomous.? High metacentre >>>> can >>>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea.? That is my best guess.? Hugh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder what seems to be the problem?? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> org> >>>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>> pictures) >>>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> Guys, >>>> >>>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there.? They are learning >>>> that >>>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub.? It also seems like the >>>> sub >>>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard.? I think the >>>> sub >>>> is fantastic. >>>> >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Ian, >>>> >>>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>>> >>>> Br, Emile >>>> >>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs. org >>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>>> >>>> >>>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>>> http://www.boattrader.com/ listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- >>>> electric-s101-manned >>>> -submarine-102153353 >>>> Lots of pictures.? I like submarine pictures. >>>> >>>> More here as well: >>>> https://www.popyachts.com/ submersible-vessels-for-sale/ >>>> marlin-32-diesel-elec >>>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in- vero-beach-florida-40442 >>>> >>>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max >>>> operating >>>> depth is 300 feet". >>>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense.? For example, >>>> it >>>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with >>>> test >>>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>>> >>>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>>> >>>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>>> pictures. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>>? Ian. >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>> >>_____________________________ __________________ >>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 06:46:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 11:46:01 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <1662284855.4280769.1519385854844@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1490978541.3959518.1519338125619@mail.yahoo.com> <1662284855.4280769.1519385854844@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Im sure he was, It was just the way you said he suddenly died. Sorry, just made me chuckle. Friday humour. On 23 February 2018 at 11:37, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > The old fellow was an inspiration and a real character. He loved working on > the boat and probably didn't care if he sailed it. I know I enjoy building > my subs more than diving them. > Hank > > On Friday, February 23, 2018, 4:13:15 AM MST, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >>"sadly he died and the boat was scrapped. " > > Sorry, but that last comment really cheered up my Friday! > > > On 22 February 2018 at 22:22, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> To Old? >> I had the pleasure of meeting an elderly gentleman that was building a >> sailboat. I was driving down the road one afternoon and and noticed a >> steel >> hull protruding from a shop. Of coarse I had to investigate, I knocked on >> the door to the house and this little tiny OLD fellow comes out and I ask >> him about the boat. He was in absolute heaven that someone was interested >> in his project. He gave me the grand tour and told me he was 86 or so, I >> can't really remember. He told me he was going to sail around the world >> in >> this boat. So clearly your never to old, sadly he died and the boat was >> scrapped. >> Hank >> >> On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 2:59:17 PM MST, Alec Smyth via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub >> forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is >> no >> coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being >> diesel >> electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get >> that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be >> possible >> to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow >> dome. >> Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does >> when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. >> But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the >> contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with >> a >> 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the >> boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new >> aluminum >> trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp >> without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that >> she's >> not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for >> members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many >> years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general >> public. >> >> :) >> >> Alec >> >> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into >> buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. >> >> But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's >> problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), >> deferred >> maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time >> fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... Only if I >> was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>>Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> org> >>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>>would be nice to see it in our community and in action. >>> >>>On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland >>> wrote: >>>> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you >>>> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when >>>> they really need to get rid of it.. >>>> >>>> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>>>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >>>>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>>>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I >>>>> think a >>>>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >>>>> >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>>> pictures) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> >>>>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like >>>>> that >>>>> would >>>>> >>>>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be >>>>> launched >>>>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't >>>>> like >>>>> is >>>>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will >>>>> buy >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>>>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. >>>>> Sea >>>>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>>>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre >>>>> can >>>>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>>> pictures) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>> org> >>>>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of >>>>> pictures) >>>>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> >>>>> Guys, >>>>> >>>>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>>>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning >>>>> that >>>>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like >>>>> the >>>>> sub >>>>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the >>>>> sub >>>>> is fantastic. >>>>> >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> >>>>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>>>> >>>>> Br, Emile >>>>> >>>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >>>>> bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>>>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>>>> http://www.boattrader.com/ listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- >>>>> electric-s101-manned >>>>> -submarine-102153353 >>>>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >>>>> >>>>> More here as well: >>>>> https://www.popyachts.com/ submersible-vessels-for-sale/ >>>>> marlin-32-diesel-elec >>>>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in- vero-beach-florida-40442 >>>>> >>>>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max >>>>> operating >>>>> depth is 300 feet". >>>>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, >>>>> it >>>>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with >>>>> test >>>>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>>>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules >>>>> either. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>>>> >>>>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>>>> pictures. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Ian. >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>>>> >>>_____________________________ __________________ >>>Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>>http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 09:40:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 15:40:58 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0ce601d3acb4$51995390$f4cbfab0$@nl> Yep , A big bowdome is convienient for outfitting and you can get a Diesel in and out. But the S101 has probably a flange. Maybe 2 or more from the US based Psubbers should buy it; share the cost and the fun! Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: donderdag 22 februari 2018 22:59 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is no coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being diesel electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed to get that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be possible to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the bow dome. Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the Navy does when they have to service something too large to come out through a hatch. But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. On the contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel comes with a 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at all with the boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the new aluminum trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good boat ramp without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just that she's not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too daunting for members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you for many years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the general public. :) Alec On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), deferred maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) -----Original Message----- >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > wrote: >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you >> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when >> they really need to get rid of it.. >> >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from >>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will need to >>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market >>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I think a >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like that >>> would >>> >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be launched >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't like is >>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I will buy >>> it. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface >>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. Sea >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else >>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High metacentre can >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> Guys, >>> >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are learning that >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like the sub >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think the sub >>> is fantastic. >>> >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. >>> >>> Br, Emile >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) >>> >>> >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: >>> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel-electric-s101-manned >>> -submarine-102153353 >>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. >>> >>> More here as well: >>> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/marlin-32-diesel-elec >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 >>> >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max operating >>> depth is 300 feet". >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For example, it >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused with test >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules either. >>> >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. >>> >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) >>> pictures. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ian. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >_______________________________________________ >Personal_Submersibles mailing list >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Feb 23 13:54:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 19:54:13 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) In-Reply-To: <0ce601d3acb4$51995390$f4cbfab0$@nl> References: <2090677953.12196.1519334615269@wamui-marley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <0ce601d3acb4$51995390$f4cbfab0$@nl> Message-ID: Hello If anyone is interested Paul Moorhouse just told me he ll be happy to give more detail about his creation to potential buyers. Regards Antoine On Friday, February 23, 2018, emile via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yep , A big bowdome is convienient for outfitting and you can get a > Diesel in and out. But the S101 has probably a flange. > > Maybe 2 or more from the US based Psubbers should buy it; share the cost > and the fun! > > > > Br, Emile > > > > *Van:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *Namens *Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > *Verzonden:* donderdag 22 februari 2018 22:59 > *Aan:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion > *Onderwerp:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > > > > Hah, Ian, you described me! I too have been following this particular sub > forever, she's my hands-down favorite along with Lula, which of course is > no coincidence. I grant she's a relatively complex design because being > diesel electric and having kit like an on-board compressor. If you needed > to get that diesel out and to a mechanic I'm not sure if it would even be > possible to pull it all the way through the sub and out the opening for the > bow dome. Maybe you'd have to cut the hull in half temporarily, like the > Navy does when they have to service something too large to come out through > a hatch. But I certainly don't think you would be buying any design flaws. > On the contrary, she's a masterpiece. And the complexity of the diesel > comes with a 200 mile range, so there's justification. I see no problem at > all with the boat, and if you flip through all the way to the photos of the > new aluminum trailer, it looks to me like she could be launched from a good > boat ramp without craning in. I think the reason for the low price is just > that she's not the right sort of sub for a luxury yacht, and is too > daunting for members of the general public. But don't worry, I've known you > for many years and can attest you are not in any way representative of the > general public. > > > > :) > > > > Alec > > > > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:23 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I've been in love with the S101 for almost 2 decades, I've looked into > buying it before, following it's journey/ownership over that time. > > But, I get this sense of dread that I would be buying somebody else's > problems, complexity, design decisions (and possibly design flaws), > deferred maintenance, misuse, etc.. Or maybe that's because I'm spending > more time fixing used cars these days than working on my K250 restomod... > Only if I was younger and less experienced (or jaded). :-) > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >Sent: Feb 22, 2018 6:08 AM > >To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > > > >would be nice to see it in our community and in action. > > > >On 22 February 2018 at 14:08, James Frankland > > wrote: > >> Hank, why don't you make them a silly offer. $30K or whatever you > >> think. You never know they may take it. Probably not now, but when > >> they really need to get rid of it.. > >> > >> On 22 February 2018 at 12:00, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >>> Alan, the price is great considering what it would cost to build from > >>> scratch. I still think it is to much, only because one day it will > need to > >>> be sold. The fact that they can't sell it at 80K speaks to the market > >>> value. It is only worth what someone will pay for it. > >>> Hugh raises a very good point about it being a sea sick machine. I > think a > >>> big lake is a perfect place for it. > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 9:46:16 PM MST, T Novak via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Hmmm, my budget keeps under $15000cdn. No joy. > >>> > >>> Tim > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:57 PM > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hank, > >>> > >>> Tim talks about his plans for an underwater habitat. Something like > that > >>> would > >>> > >>> be great for the price & it would be mobile! Maybe you could go halves! > >>> > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> > >>> On 22/02/2018, at 3:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Perfect for a huge lake, park in a marina under cover. It can be > launched > >>> from the trailer and towed behind my 5 ton. The only thing I don't > like is > >>> the depth rating. Still, if the price drops to my comfort zone, I > will buy > >>> it. > >>> > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 6:19:26 PM MST, Hugh Fulton via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Crane in, crane out, time to get to diving spot and back, no surface > >>> facility. Too big for super-yachts. Too small to be stable in a sea. > Sea > >>> sickness rolling etc. Submersibles need to be transportable or else > >>> submarines. Ask Carsten. At least his is Autonomous. High > metacentre can > >>> be hell for rolling even in a slight sea. That is my best guess. Hugh > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Sent: Thursday, 22 February 2018 1:45 PM > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I wonder what seems to be the problem? Maybe sea keeping issues? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > >>> To: emile via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of > pictures) > >>> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 16:54:03 +0000 (UTC) > >>> > >>> Guys, > >>> > >>> I have spoken with the sales people a couple times and I am getting the > >>> feeling that they have no idea what they have there. They are > learning that > >>> it is very difficult to sell an uncertified sub. It also seems like > the sub > >>> has a bad reputation from when it belonged to Sea Shepard. I think > the sub > >>> is fantastic. > >>> > >>> Hank > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wednesday, February 21, 2018, 1:24:39 AM MST, emile via > >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Ian, > >>> > >>> Corrosion or ageing of the domes could be a reason for the de-rating. > >>> > >>> Br, Emile > >>> > >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >>> Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] > >>> Namens irox via Personal_Submersibles > >>> Verzonden: woensdag 21 februari 2018 5:39 > >>> Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > >>> Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marlin s101 for sale $80k (lots of pictures) > >>> > >>> > >>> For a "ready to dive" diesel electric, $80K sounds like a deal: > >>> http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1987-marlin-32-diesel- > electric-s101-manned > >>> -submarine-102153353 > >>> Lots of pictures. I like submarine pictures. > >>> > >>> More here as well: > >>> https://www.popyachts.com/submersible-vessels-for-sale/ > marlin-32-diesel-elec > >>> tric-s101-manned-submarine-in-vero-beach-florida-40442 > >>> > >>> Seems it has been de-rated from 1000ft operational depth to "max > operating > >>> depth is 300 feet". > >>> Although the wording they use doesn't make perfect sense. For > example, it > >>> claims the collapse depth is 1250ft, but I think they are confused > with test > >>> depth (per ABS, 125% of operational depth). > >>> The other ABS claims don't match with my understand of ABS rules > either. > >>> > >>> Perhaps it can still be rated to 1000ft. > >>> > >>> Regardless, this is a beautiful craft, and I am enjoying the (~500?!) > >>> pictures. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Ian. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >_______________________________________________ > >Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 24 20:18:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:18:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Message-ID: <03816CEB-7EBF-4051-ABD1-184673AF5F65@yahoo.com> Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent developments. A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull & had no idea of it's depth rating. Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is not really necessary. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 24 21:38:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 21:38:40 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar In-Reply-To: <03816CEB-7EBF-4051-ABD1-184673AF5F65@yahoo.com> References: <03816CEB-7EBF-4051-ABD1-184673AF5F65@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161cad3983e-5ea8-1a176@webjas-vae156.srv.aolmail.net> Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent developments. A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull & had no idea of it's depth rating. Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is not really necessary. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 24 21:48:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 18:48:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Message-ID: <201802250748.w1P7mnHH050853@whoweb.com> A friend of mine has a forward looking sonar and it's great for spotting rises in the bottom. However his boat isn't a sub, so no idea of what pressure the transducer can take. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/24/18 6:38 PM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent developments. A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull & had no idea of it's depth rating. Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is not really necessary. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 24 21:48:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 18:48:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Message-ID: <201802250748.w1P7msR9050854@whoweb.com> A friend of mine has a forward looking sonar and it's great for spotting rises in the bottom. However his boat isn't a sub, so no idea of what pressure the transducer can take. Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: via Personal_Submersibles Date: 2/24/18 6:38 PM (GMT-08:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent developments. A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull & had no idea of it's depth rating. Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is not really necessary. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Feb 24 23:22:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:22:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar In-Reply-To: <161cad3983e-5ea8-1a176@webjas-vae156.srv.aolmail.net> References: <03816CEB-7EBF-4051-ABD1-184673AF5F65@yahoo.com> <161cad3983e-5ea8-1a176@webjas-vae156.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Thanks Vance & Keith, There seems to be quite a range of products out there & the ones that have images that look like something recognisable are very expensive. The simrad forward scan is in my range but is 2d, so you are only seeing contours & distances directly in front of you. I could enclose the transducer in a thick shell of fiberglass with an area over the transmitting face that was only 3mm thick & this would give me my depth rating, but it might be a waste of money if it doesn't shoot through the 3mm well enough. Transducer costs $700 & display costs $1000. Could always put it on a boat if it can't shoot through the fibreglass, & there is always the option of upgrading to a better scanner later on. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2018, at 3:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar > > Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. > I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent > developments. > A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around > 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner > screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. > Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do > just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a > small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through > hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter > fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a > 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not > to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to > leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. > I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats > but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the > idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull > & had no idea of it's depth rating. > Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted > depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is > not really necessary. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 01:21:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 22:21:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Message-ID: <20180224222130.B47D8267@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 02:16:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 23:16:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber sealing Message-ID: <20180224231608.B47DCBD1@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 11:45:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 16:45:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> Dear PsubbersI found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very promising.? I could not find anything about its use in deep sea exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea cameras, submersibles or Rovs?If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community.Best wishesJuergen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 13:33:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:33:25 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar In-Reply-To: <20180224222130.B47D8267@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180224222130.B47D8267@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <55258F7C-575D-47E5-B346-14598370CA34@yahoo.com> Brian, thanks, that sounds promising. I could temporarily glue a sheet of fibreglass on to the transmitting face of the transducer & try it out on a boat first. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/02/2018, at 7:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have a depth sounder on my sailboat. It's a low end Garmin, I made the decision to mount the transducer on the inside of the fiberglass hull, the fiberglass is quite thick in that area. My boat is an Islander built in the mid 70's so they went overboard with the thickness of the fiberglass back then. I get a very good image, it even penetrates the mud ! I can tell because I checked the calibration at the dock and it was very accurate . > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:22:07 +1300 > > Thanks Vance & Keith, > There seems to be quite a range of products out there & the ones > that have images that look like something recognisable are very expensive. > The simrad forward scan is in my range but is 2d, so you are only seeing > contours & distances directly in front of you. I could enclose the transducer in a thick > shell of fiberglass with an area over the transmitting face that was only 3mm thick > & this would give me my depth rating, but it might be a waste of money if > it doesn't shoot through the 3mm well enough. Transducer costs $700 & > display costs $1000. > Could always put it on a boat if it can't shoot through the fibreglass, & there > is always the option of upgrading to a better scanner later on. > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/02/2018, at 3:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar > > Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. > I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent > developments. > A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around > 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner > screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. > Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do > just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a > small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through > hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter > fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a > 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not > to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to > leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. > I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats > but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the > idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull > & had no idea of it's depth rating. > Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted > depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is > not really necessary. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 14:12:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 19:12:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar In-Reply-To: <55258F7C-575D-47E5-B346-14598370CA34@yahoo.com> References: <20180224222130.B47D8267@m0117565.ppops.net> <55258F7C-575D-47E5-B346-14598370CA34@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <655333887.5216454.1519585925454@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I would not dismiss the possible depth rating of the transducer. ?I just installed a new sounder in Gamma with 1,000 foot range and the transducer seems like it could handle all of that. ?I had the original ?one to almost 500 feet so far, so stay tuned and I will see how far we can push these things.Hank On Sunday, February 25, 2018, 11:33:47 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,thanks, that sounds promising.?I could temporarily glue a sheet of fibreglass on to the transmittingface of the transducer & try it out on a boat first.Alan Sent from my iPad On 25/02/2018, at 7:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,??? ?????????? I have a depth sounder on my sailboat.? It's a low end Garmin, I made the decision to mount the transducer on the inside of the fiberglass hull, the fiberglass is quite thick in that area.? My boat is an Islander built in the mid 70's so they went overboard with the thickness of the fiberglass back then.? I get a very good image,? it even penetrates the mud !? I can tell because I checked the calibration at the dock and it was very accurate .???Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:22:07 +1300 Thanks Vance & Keith,There seems to be quite a range of products out there & the onesthat have images that look like something recognisable are very expensive.? ?The simrad forward scan is in my range but is 2d, so you are only seeingcontours & distances directly in front of you. I could enclose the transducer in a thickshell of fiberglass with an area over the transmitting face that was only 3mm thick& this would give me my depth rating, but it might be a waste of money ifit doesn't shoot through the 3mm well enough. Transducer costs $700 &?display costs $1000.? ?Could always put it on a boat if it can't shoot through the fibreglass, & thereis always the option of upgrading to a better scanner later on.Alan Sent from my iPad On 25/02/2018, at 3:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent developments. A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull & had no idea of it's depth rating. Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is not really necessary. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 14:46:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 20:46:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Transparent Aluminium In-Reply-To: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> Boahh - Transparent Aluminium !!. Just found the link. Thanks J?rgen I was assumed it will be never ever developt.. Okay we have by now: Cellular phones, Tricorders, Touchscreens, Medicine Body scanners, Laser and Plasma guns, 3D Printers and some remaining wales. Only open items are Warp drive, Beaming and the Enterpr?se themself.. http://www.surmet.com/technology/alon-optical-ceramics/index.php vbr Carsten -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Datum: 2018-02-25T17:46:20+0100 Von: "Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles" An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Dear Psubbers I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very promising. I could not find anything about its use in deep sea exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea cameras, submersibles or Rovs? If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. Best wishes Juergen ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 15:06:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:06:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar In-Reply-To: <655333887.5216454.1519585925454@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180224222130.B47D8267@m0117565.ppops.net> <55258F7C-575D-47E5-B346-14598370CA34@yahoo.com> <655333887.5216454.1519585925454@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93BA60B1-948C-4A46-9CE2-5BF8FFD01C40@yahoo.com> Hank, thanks, that's good to know. I like the Simrad Forward Scan but a bit expensive to put in the water & hope it survives. It has a different style of transducer than a normal depth sounder, with a flat face. It does forward & down. I talked with Simrad experts at a boat show, then at their offices in Auckland. ( they do a lot of development work here. ) Also got them to email the transducer manufacturer in Europe. The conclusion was that they weren't confident it would shoot through a hull without some distortion & as I said, didn't have a foggy about depth rating. They also had no bad ones I could cut in half :( I like the idea of a shoot through hull depth sounder as although you would have to make a small penetration for a fibreglass plug, you wouldn't have to seal around the transducer, or feed the wiring through a penetrator. It would be easy to change in the future. ( if you can unglue it). If the simrad forward scan could shoot though fibreglass I would have it in the water but reinforce it with as little thickness of fibreglass as possible over the transmitting area. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/02/2018, at 8:12 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I would not dismiss the possible depth rating of the transducer. I just installed a new sounder in Gamma with 1,000 foot range and the transducer seems like it could handle all of that. I had the original one to almost 500 feet so far, so stay tuned and I will see how far we can push these things. > Hank > On Sunday, February 25, 2018, 11:33:47 AM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Brian, > thanks, that sounds promising. > I could temporarily glue a sheet of fibreglass on to the transmitting > face of the transducer & try it out on a boat first. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/02/2018, at 7:21 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I have a depth sounder on my sailboat. It's a low end Garmin, I made the decision to mount the transducer on the inside of the fiberglass hull, the fiberglass is quite thick in that area. My boat is an Islander built in the mid 70's so they went overboard with the thickness of the fiberglass back then. I get a very good image, it even penetrates the mud ! I can tell because I checked the calibration at the dock and it was very accurate . >> >> Brian >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar >> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:22:07 +1300 >> >> Thanks Vance & Keith, >> There seems to be quite a range of products out there & the ones >> that have images that look like something recognisable are very expensive. >> The simrad forward scan is in my range but is 2d, so you are only seeing >> contours & distances directly in front of you. I could enclose the transducer in a thick >> shell of fiberglass with an area over the transmitting face that was only 3mm thick >> & this would give me my depth rating, but it might be a waste of money if >> it doesn't shoot through the 3mm well enough. Transducer costs $700 & >> display costs $1000. >> Could always put it on a boat if it can't shoot through the fibreglass, & there >> is always the option of upgrading to a better scanner later on. >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 25/02/2018, at 3:38 PM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Scanning sonar is the set of eyes you don't have. It's invaluable for anything beyond just dawdling around having a look in the light pool. Unfortunately, 10-15k won't touch what Pisces carries. The acoustic altimeter alone is getting on for 5k. Ouch. >> Vance >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: personal_submersibles >> Sent: Sat, Feb 24, 2018 8:19 pm >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Forward Facing Scanning Sonar >> >> Just wondering whether a forward facing scanning sonar is worth it. >> I have been re-looking at them to see if there have been any recent >> developments. >> A couple that I have looked at that are for the rov market, are around >> 10-15k. I looked at a video showing a camera image with the scanner >> screen image in the corner of the screen, & it looked unintelligible. >> Am wondering if just a depth sounder mounted horizontally would do >> just from the low visibility collision avoidance perspective. I could make a >> small fibreglass plug to fit in a small through hull & mount a "shoot through >> hull" depth sounder inside my hull. Did a quick analysis & a 2" diameter >> fibreglass plug 1/2" thick fitted over a 1" diameter hole would give me a >> 15,000ft depth rating. Have talked with sonar people who have advised not >> to go more than 1/2" thick with the fibreglass I am shooting through & to >> leave no air gaps between the transducer & fibreglass. >> I did pursue the idea of adapting the cheaper Simrad Forward Scan for boats >> but after getting little information from manufacturers & reps, dropped the >> idea. They also said they didn't think it would work with a shoot through hull >> & had no idea of it's depth rating. >> Has anyone had any experience with forward scan or a forward mounted >> depth sounder. Or from your submarine experience do you think this is >> not really necessary. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 15:14:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:14:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Transparent Aluminium In-Reply-To: <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: <9AEF8B88-40F5-4419-9D48-9D0AC339C29C@yahoo.com> They say they make domes. Wonder how it compares with acrylic for that purpose! Bet it is expensive! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/02/2018, at 8:46 AM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Boahh - Transparent Aluminium !!. > > Just found the link. Thanks J?rgen > I was assumed it will be never ever developt.. > > Okay we have by now: > > Cellular phones, Tricorders, Touchscreens, Medicine Body scanners, > Laser and Plasma guns, 3D Printers and some remaining wales. > > Only open items are Warp drive, Beaming and the Enterpr?se themself.. > > http://www.surmet.com/technology/alon-optical-ceramics/index.php > > vbr Carsten > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON > Datum: 2018-02-25T17:46:20+0100 > Von: "Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles" > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very promising. I could not find anything about its use in deep sea exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > ? > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 17:55:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:55:38 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Transparent Aluminium In-Reply-To: <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: Carsten you reminded me of something funny I saw the other day. There is a space related company here called Orbital, and I drove past their office the other day. Someone had a sense of humor, because the name of the street is Warp Drive. Best, Alec On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:46 PM, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Boahh - Transparent Aluminium !!. > > > > Just found the link. Thanks J?rgen > > I was assumed it will be never ever developt.. > > > > Okay we have by now: > > > > Cellular phones, Tricorders, Touchscreens, Medicine Body scanners, > > Laser and Plasma guns, 3D Printers and some remaining wales. > > > > Only open items are Warp drive, Beaming and the Enterpr?se themself.. > > > > http://www.surmet.com/technology/alon-optical-ceramics/index.php > > > > vbr Carsten > > > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON > > Datum: 2018-02-25T17:46:20+0100 > > Von: "Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > > > > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is already > being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very promising. I could > not find anything about its use in deep sea exploration. Does somebody > knows if is already being used in undersea cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Feb 25 18:08:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 15:08:53 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Transparent Aluminium Message-ID: <20180225150853.B47D5F7D@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 00:29:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:29:54 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON In-Reply-To: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Can't find any trace of that use. Marc On 2/26/2018 12:45 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is > already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very > promising.? I could not find anything about its use in deep sea > exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea > cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 04:58:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:58:07 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON In-Reply-To: References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a501d3aee8$4e409f60$eac1de20$@gmx.de> For those who remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaVgRj2e5_s ? Best regards Beram -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Im Auftrag von Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles Gesendet: Montag, 26. Februar 2018 06:30 An: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Can't find any trace of that use. Marc On 2/26/2018 12:45 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is > already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very > promising. I could not find anything about its use in deep sea > exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea > cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 06:00:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 11:00:43 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Transparent Aluminium In-Reply-To: <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> <1519587985047.803352.9e451c22aa397e042c6a6fd210ce4d10e823167d@spica.telekom.de> Message-ID: That looks bloody amazing. Suspect its really expensive. but I suppose it will get cheaper if more people develop it. To the list of future items, I will add we need: powered battle suits and a machine to tunnel to the centre of the earth..... On 25 February 2018 at 19:46, MerlinSub at t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Boahh - Transparent Aluminium !!. > > > > Just found the link. Thanks J?rgen > > I was assumed it will be never ever developt.. > > > > Okay we have by now: > > > > Cellular phones, Tricorders, Touchscreens, Medicine Body scanners, > > Laser and Plasma guns, 3D Printers and some remaining wales. > > > > Only open items are Warp drive, Beaming and the Enterpr?se themself.. > > > > http://www.surmet.com/technology/alon-optical-ceramics/index.php > > > > vbr Carsten > > > > > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON > > Datum: 2018-02-25T17:46:20+0100 > > Von: "Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles" > > > An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > > > > > > > > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is already > being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very promising. I could > not find anything about its use in deep sea exploration. Does somebody knows > if is already being used in undersea cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 12:35:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (MerlinSub@t-online.de via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:35:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON In-Reply-To: <01a501d3aee8$4e409f60$eac1de20$@gmx.de> References: <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1633972929.7784543.1519577102952@mail.yahoo.com> <01a501d3aee8$4e409f60$eac1de20$@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1519666534977.787723.1440f8a7add87ccdada5c32707e7cdca62f6446c@spica.telekom.de> One of the best StarTrek scene ever.. By the way the turned the timeline by giving this secret away. -----Original-Nachricht----- Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Datum: 2018-02-26T10:59:37+0100 Von: "Beram Mahmoud via Personal_Submersibles" An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" For those who remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaVgRj2e5_s ? Best regards Beram -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Im Auftrag von Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles Gesendet: Montag, 26. Februar 2018 06:30 An: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ALON Can't find any trace of that use. Marc On 2/26/2018 12:45 AM, Juergen Guerrero Kommritz via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Dear Psubbers > I found that ALON (Aluminium oxynitide) (transparent aluminium) is > already being used in several aplication. This ceramic is very > promising. I could not find anything about its use in deep sea > exploration. Does somebody knows if is already being used in undersea > cameras, submersibles or Rovs? > If the price is not to high this would be ideal for our community. > Best wishes > Juergen > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 16:36:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:36:48 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick Message-ID: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights or display control etc. If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 148936 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 16:48:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:48:30 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, & not on & off. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights > or display control etc. > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 17:15:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:15:47 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical > thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, > & not on & off. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >> 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >> I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >> throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >> speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >> am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >> buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >> picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >> I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >> It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >> or display control etc. >> If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >> thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles @psubs.org> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 18:00:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:00:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <984634AA-13D6-48B5-AD16-2A319C79525B@yahoo.com> Thanks Sean, sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to turn the sub on it's axis. On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical > thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, > & not on & off. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling > > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. > > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters > > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional > > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I > > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen > > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached > > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. > > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. > > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights > > or display control etc. > > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested > > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 18:30:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:30:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <984634AA-13D6-48B5-AD16-2A319C79525B@yahoo.com> References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> <984634AA-13D6-48B5-AD16-2A319C79525B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Sean, > sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. > I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as > I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient > works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could > however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when > I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to > turn the sub on it's axis. > On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand > free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. > If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger > operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>> & not on & off. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>> 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>> I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>> throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>> speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>> am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>> buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>> picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>> I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>> It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>> or display control etc. >>>> If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>> thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> @psubs.org> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 20:30:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:30:24 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Here is the order sheet on the aero-infinity flight grip I ordered for the SeaQuestor. The attached pdf shows the options available for your choice of controls. http://www.infinityaerospace.com/gripwire.pdf Mine was custom configured to how I wanted the joystick and will be placed on top of a joy stick axis as well. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal > thrusters > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters > proportional > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is > what I > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have > seen > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the > attached > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed > operation. > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for > lights > or display control etc. > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be > interested > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 21:16:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:16:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> <984634AA-13D6-48B5-AD16-2A319C79525B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <702C39AC-23EA-48BB-B7AA-1DD36319A9E8@yahoo.com> Thanks Sean & David, hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- won't you! That's not bad. Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: > > Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. > > Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. > > Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. > > Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. > > Sean > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Sean, > sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. > I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as > I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient > works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could > however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when > I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to > turn the sub on it's axis. > On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand > free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. > If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger > operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >> & not on & off. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >> > or display control etc. >> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >> > Alan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Feb 26 23:26:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:26:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <702C39AC-23EA-48BB-B7AA-1DD36319A9E8@yahoo.com> References: <76515D74-2B90-40A5-800D-C6D6507EB51B@yahoo.com> <984634AA-13D6-48B5-AD16-2A319C79525B@yahoo.com> <702C39AC-23EA-48BB-B7AA-1DD36319A9E8@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well there is this product.... Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Sean & David, > hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth > limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices > set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. > Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David > has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. > David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- > won't you! That's not bad. > Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw > I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf > semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 > axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >> >> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >> >> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >> >> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >> >> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >> >> Sean >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Sean, >> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >> turn the sub on it's axis. >> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>> & not on & off. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> > >>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>> > or display control etc. >>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>> > Alan >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 03:54:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 21:54:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> Thanks Ian, I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the top of the main joy stick shaft. I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo the controllers are just out of view) On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I was thinking of going with something like this: > https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf > 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. > This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, > can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. > > There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, > which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. > > Cheers, > Ian. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick > > Well there is this product.... > Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System > Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Sean & David, >> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices >> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. >> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David >> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. >> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- >> won't you! That's not bad. >> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf >> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >>> >>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >>> >>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >>> >>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >>> >>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Sean, >>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >>> turn the sub on it's axis. >>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>>> & not on & off. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>> > or display control etc. >>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>> > Alan >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 43347 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 12:39:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 11:39:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? Cliff On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Ian, > I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a > twisting > of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite > intuitive, > you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further > from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. > I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical > thrusters, ie. > you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! > I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight > controllers > come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at > the > top of the main joy stick shaft. > I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at > the end > of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes > Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached > photo > the controllers are just out of view) > On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For > controlling > thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle > control > at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control > units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. > Alan > [image: image1.JPG] > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > I was thinking of going with something like this: > https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf > 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is > $120-$300 depending on model/options. > This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the > joystick is moved in a direction, > can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative > position of a control surface. > > There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use > micro-switches or momentary-switches, > which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. > > Cheers, > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick > > Well there is this product.... > Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System > Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety > cover over the missile button! > > [image: image1.JPG][image: image2.JPG] > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Sean & David, > hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth > limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for > novices > set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. > Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit > that David > has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too > big. > David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around > $300- > won't you! That's not bad. > Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw > I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off > the shelf > semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 > axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on > the stick as follows: > > Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, > the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and > implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as > necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. > > Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, > but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring > return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, > and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This > will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not > bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's > movement in a 2D plane. > > Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick > displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise > control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though > (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any > subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. > > Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a > configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid > creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. > > Sean > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Sean, > sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. > I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as > I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient > works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I > could > however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when > I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in > reverse to > turn the sub on it's axis. > On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters > ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I > want a hand > free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. > If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small > finger > operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with > three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion > (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), > and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis > corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common > industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For > depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel > or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in > proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also > have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and > heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a > bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use > joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to > actually implement an associated control algorithm. > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical > thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, > & not on & off. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling > > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. > > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal > thrusters > > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters > proportional > > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is > what I > > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have > seen > > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the > attached > > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand > example. > > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed > operation. > > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these > for lights > > or display control etc. > > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be > interested > > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 43347 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 13:45:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:45:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> Cliff, thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of buoyancy. If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they have loads of programable control functions relating to the output from the joysticks. As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external components together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & external structure. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd > > So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? > > Cliff > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Ian, >> I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting >> of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, >> you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further >> from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. >> I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. >> you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! >> I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers >> come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the >> top of the main joy stick shaft. >> I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end >> of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes >> Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo >> the controllers are just out of view) >> On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling >> thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control >> at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control >> units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I was thinking of going with something like this: >>> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf >>> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. >>> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, >>> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. >>> >>> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, >>> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ian. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick >>> >>> Well there is this product.... >>> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System >>> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Sean & David, >>>> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >>>> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices >>>> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. >>>> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David >>>> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. >>>> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- >>>> won't you! That's not bad. >>>> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >>>> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf >>>> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >>>> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >>>>> >>>>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >>>>> >>>>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >>>>> >>>>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >>>>> >>>>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Sean, >>>>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >>>>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >>>>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >>>>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >>>>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >>>>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >>>>> turn the sub on it's axis. >>>>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >>>>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >>>>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >>>>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>>>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>>>>> & not on & off. >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>>>> > or display control etc. >>>>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>>>> > Alan >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 14:42:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:42:03 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <245EFA5E-5FEC-4B66-A34F-05D628E324DA@yahoo.com> Cliff, should mention that my ambient was really the beginning of my 1 atm design. I liked the model I was building & got a bit side tracked by fibreglassing it & diving it as an ambient. Am keeping the same fixed horizontal & vertical thruster format but having an extra horizontal thruster on each side for redundancy. The ballast tank configuration will be similar with a forward ballast tank under the nose of the sub & a tank high on either side. I will also integrate the thrusters into the bottom of the ballast tanks as per the ambient. Am putting my batteries at the back in external pods & are going with Lifepo4. Am putting my tanks out the back also. So a lot more out back than on my ambient & will have a boarding platform across the top of this. Will be having remote control as per the ambient. Everything will be a lot bigger & there are a lot of other innovations. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2018, at 7:45 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. > I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. > Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of buoyancy. > If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the > top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's > controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) > then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by > having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. > At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis > input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they > have loads of programable control functions relating to the output > from the joysticks. > As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my > original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external components > together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & external > structure. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd >> >> So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? >> >> Cliff >> >>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Thanks Ian, >>> I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting >>> of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, >>> you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further >>> from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. >>> I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. >>> you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! >>> I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers >>> come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the >>> top of the main joy stick shaft. >>> I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end >>> of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes >>> Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo >>> the controllers are just out of view) >>> On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling >>> thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control >>> at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control >>> units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I was thinking of going with something like this: >>>> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf >>>> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. >>>> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, >>>> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. >>>> >>>> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, >>>> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ian. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick >>>> >>>> Well there is this product.... >>>> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System >>>> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Sean & David, >>>>> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >>>>> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices >>>>> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. >>>>> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David >>>>> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. >>>>> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- >>>>> won't you! That's not bad. >>>>> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >>>>> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf >>>>> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >>>>> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >>>>>> >>>>>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >>>>>> >>>>>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >>>>>> >>>>>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >>>>>> >>>>>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Sean, >>>>>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >>>>>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >>>>>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >>>>>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >>>>>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >>>>>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >>>>>> turn the sub on it's axis. >>>>>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >>>>>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >>>>>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >>>>>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>>>>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>>>>>> & not on & off. >>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>>>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>>>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>>>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>>>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>>>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>>>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>>>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>>>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>>>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>>>>> > or display control etc. >>>>>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>>>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>>>>> > Alan >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 17:37:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:37:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, I haven't used a joystick yet, but on Snoopy I used to dive with the vertical thrusters locked and to control them I used a little pot on the handheld controls. Many joysticks have a knob or thumb wheel, and I'd suggest either would be ideal for the vertical thrusters. It worked well because the vertical thrusters tend to spend a lot of time running at constant speed, being whatever speed keeps you at the same depth (I would dive slightly positive). Or for diving and surfacing, you crank the vertical thrusters up or down and leave them that way. In short, it's the one input that tends to stay constant, so the joystick is probably best used for what requires ongoing input. That, normally, is movement in a horizontal plane because most of the time one is following the bottom. You could wire the joystick to move the sub exactly the way the stick is moved. Stick forward to move forward, stick sideways to crab, and stick twist to rotate in place. The PLC could mix all these inputs to net out the signal to each thruster. Best, Alec On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. > I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. > Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of > buoyancy. > If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the > top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's > controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) > then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by > having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. > At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis > input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they > have loads of programable control functions relating to the output > from the joysticks. > As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my > original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external > components > together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & > external > structure. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a > lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before > configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? > submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there > is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll > control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a > submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able > to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is > a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement > in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll > control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my > boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have > gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used > a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada > http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure > just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit > pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away > from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot > getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too > large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH > products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/ > products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd > So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the > design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or > ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? > > Cliff > > On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Ian, >> I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a >> twisting >> of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite >> intuitive, >> you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the >> further >> from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. >> I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical >> thrusters, ie. >> you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! >> I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight >> controllers >> come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at >> the >> top of the main joy stick shaft. >> I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at >> the end >> of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes >> Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached >> photo >> the controllers are just out of view) >> On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For >> controlling >> thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle >> control >> at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control >> units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> I was thinking of going with something like this: >> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf >> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is >> $120-$300 depending on model/options. >> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the >> joystick is moved in a direction, >> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or >> relative position of a control surface. >> >> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use >> micro-switches or momentary-switches, >> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. >> >> Cheers, >> Ian. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick >> >> Well there is this product.... >> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System >> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety >> cover over the missile button! >> >> [image: image1.JPG][image: image2.JPG] >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Sean & David, >> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for >> novices >> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of >> programming. >> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit >> that David >> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too >> big. >> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around >> $300- >> won't you! That's not bad. >> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off >> the shelf >> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra >> work! >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on >> the stick as follows: >> >> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, >> the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and >> implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as >> necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >> >> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, >> but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring >> return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, >> and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This >> will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not >> bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's >> movement in a 2D plane. >> >> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick >> displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise >> control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though >> (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any >> subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >> >> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a >> configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid >> creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >> >> Sean >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Thanks Sean, >> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I >> could >> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in >> reverse to >> turn the sub on it's axis. >> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal >> thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two >> hands, & I want a hand >> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a >> small finger >> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with >> three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion >> (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), >> and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis >> corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common >> industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For >> depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel >> or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in >> proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also >> have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and >> heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a >> bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use >> joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to >> actually implement an associated control algorithm. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >> & not on & off. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal >> thrusters >> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters >> proportional >> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is >> what I >> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have >> seen >> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the >> attached >> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand >> example. >> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed >> operation. >> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these >> for lights >> > or display control etc. >> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be >> interested >> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >> > Alan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Feb 27 21:15:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 15:15:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <539878FA-FD9D-437A-9DC2-BAC7DB864224@yahoo.com> Hi Alec, I like that idea of setting the speed on the vertical thrusters, however I believe GL requires spring to centre joysticks so that if you are incapacitated or whatever, you don't keep going down. Maybe I could appease this regulation by having a timer that requires a push of a button once a minute to continue at this speed. ( like a dead man's switch) There will be the back up of some maximum depth control logic. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2018, at 11:37 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I haven't used a joystick yet, but on Snoopy I used to dive with the vertical thrusters locked and to control them I used a little pot on the handheld controls. Many joysticks have a knob or thumb wheel, and I'd suggest either would be ideal for the vertical thrusters. It worked well because the vertical thrusters tend to spend a lot of time running at constant speed, being whatever speed keeps you at the same depth (I would dive slightly positive). Or for diving and surfacing, you crank the vertical thrusters up or down and leave them that way. In short, it's the one input that tends to stay constant, so the joystick is probably best used for what requires ongoing input. That, normally, is movement in a horizontal plane because most of the time one is following the bottom. You could wire the joystick to move the sub exactly the way the stick is moved. Stick forward to move forward, stick sideways to crab, and stick twist to rotate in place. The PLC could mix all these inputs to net out the signal to each thruster. > > Best, > Alec > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. >> I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. >> Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of buoyancy. >> If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the >> top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's >> controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) >> then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by >> having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. >> At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis >> input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they >> have loads of programable control functions relating to the output >> from the joysticks. >> As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my >> original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external components >> together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & external >> structure. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd >>> >>> So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Thanks Ian, >>>> I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting >>>> of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, >>>> you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further >>>> from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. >>>> I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. >>>> you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! >>>> I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers >>>> come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the >>>> top of the main joy stick shaft. >>>> I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end >>>> of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes >>>> Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo >>>> the controllers are just out of view) >>>> On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling >>>> thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control >>>> at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control >>>> units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was thinking of going with something like this: >>>>> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf >>>>> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. >>>>> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, >>>>> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. >>>>> >>>>> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, >>>>> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick >>>>> >>>>> Well there is this product.... >>>>> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System >>>>> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Sean & David, >>>>>> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >>>>>> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices >>>>>> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. >>>>>> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David >>>>>> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. >>>>>> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- >>>>>> won't you! That's not bad. >>>>>> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >>>>>> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf >>>>>> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >>>>>> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Sean, >>>>>>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >>>>>>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >>>>>>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >>>>>>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >>>>>>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >>>>>>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >>>>>>> turn the sub on it's axis. >>>>>>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >>>>>>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >>>>>>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >>>>>>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>>>>>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>>>>>>> & not on & off. >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>>>>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>>>>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>>>>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>>>>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>>>>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>>>>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>>>>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>>>>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>>>>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>>>>>> > or display control etc. >>>>>>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>>>>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>>>>>> > Alan >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 28 20:57:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 14:57:13 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C2F60D7-2977-4180-90E7-4A5B3C83987F@yahoo.com> Maybe I should be looking more seriously at a gaming flight simulator joystick. The US navy is using $30- Xbox controllers on their Virginia class submarines. http://www.core77.com/posts/69013/US-Navy-Incorporating-Xbox-Controllers-on-Nuclear-Fast-Attack-Submarines Perhaps it's a Donald Trump cost cutting initiative! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 28/02/2018, at 11:37 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > I haven't used a joystick yet, but on Snoopy I used to dive with the vertical thrusters locked and to control them I used a little pot on the handheld controls. Many joysticks have a knob or thumb wheel, and I'd suggest either would be ideal for the vertical thrusters. It worked well because the vertical thrusters tend to spend a lot of time running at constant speed, being whatever speed keeps you at the same depth (I would dive slightly positive). Or for diving and surfacing, you crank the vertical thrusters up or down and leave them that way. In short, it's the one input that tends to stay constant, so the joystick is probably best used for what requires ongoing input. That, normally, is movement in a horizontal plane because most of the time one is following the bottom. You could wire the joystick to move the sub exactly the way the stick is moved. Stick forward to move forward, stick sideways to crab, and stick twist to rotate in place. The PLC could mix all these inputs to net out the signal to each thruster. > > Best, > Alec > >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. >> I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. >> Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of buoyancy. >> If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the >> top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's >> controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) >> then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by >> having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. >> At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis >> input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they >> have loads of programable control functions relating to the output >> from the joysticks. >> As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my >> original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external components >> together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & external >> structure. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd >>> >>> So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Thanks Ian, >>>> I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting >>>> of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, >>>> you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further >>>> from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. >>>> I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. >>>> you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! >>>> I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers >>>> come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the >>>> top of the main joy stick shaft. >>>> I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end >>>> of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes >>>> Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo >>>> the controllers are just out of view) >>>> On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling >>>> thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control >>>> at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control >>>> units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was thinking of going with something like this: >>>>> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf >>>>> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. >>>>> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, >>>>> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. >>>>> >>>>> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, >>>>> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick >>>>> >>>>> Well there is this product.... >>>>> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System >>>>> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Sean & David, >>>>>> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth >>>>>> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices >>>>>> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. >>>>>> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David >>>>>> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. >>>>>> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- >>>>>> won't you! That's not bad. >>>>>> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw >>>>>> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf >>>>>> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 >>>>>> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Sean, >>>>>>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. >>>>>>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as >>>>>>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient >>>>>>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could >>>>>>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when >>>>>>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to >>>>>>> turn the sub on it's axis. >>>>>>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand >>>>>>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. >>>>>>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger >>>>>>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. >>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical >>>>>>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, >>>>>>>> & not on & off. >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling >>>>>>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. >>>>>>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters >>>>>>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional >>>>>>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I >>>>>>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen >>>>>>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached >>>>>>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. >>>>>>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. >>>>>>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights >>>>>>>> > or display control etc. >>>>>>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested >>>>>>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! >>>>>>>> > Alan >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Feb 28 21:07:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 18:07:09 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick In-Reply-To: rDTfecd7z1KonrDTgefEWt References: <562642995.26405.1519717801450@wamui-jelly.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <1D70762B-A651-4086-8515-8C8E1281921D@yahoo.com> <7889A50D-7A12-41C9-9AD3-8CD3E23A6C4A@yahoo.com> rDTfecd7z1KonrDTgefEWt Message-ID: <000c01d3b102$0212e500$0638af00$@telus.net> Why not go with the DW2000 foot controls? This would leave your hands free to operate cameras, lights, robotic arms, sandwiches, etc. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 5:57 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick Maybe I should be looking more seriously at a gaming flight simulator joystick. The US navy is using $30- Xbox controllers on their Virginia class submarines. http://www.core77.com/posts/69013/US-Navy-Incorporating-Xbox-Controllers-on-Nuclear-Fast-Attack-Submarines Perhaps it's a Donald Trump cost cutting initiative! Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/02/2018, at 11:37 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Alan, I haven't used a joystick yet, but on Snoopy I used to dive with the vertical thrusters locked and to control them I used a little pot on the handheld controls. Many joysticks have a knob or thumb wheel, and I'd suggest either would be ideal for the vertical thrusters. It worked well because the vertical thrusters tend to spend a lot of time running at constant speed, being whatever speed keeps you at the same depth (I would dive slightly positive). Or for diving and surfacing, you crank the vertical thrusters up or down and leave them that way. In short, it's the one input that tends to stay constant, so the joystick is probably best used for what requires ongoing input. That, normally, is movement in a horizontal plane because most of the time one is following the bottom. You could wire the joystick to move the sub exactly the way the stick is moved. Stick forward to move forward, stick sideways to crab, and stick twist to rotate in place. The PLC could mix all these inputs to net out the signal to each thruster. Best, Alec On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, thanks, this thread is helping me to formulate a few ideas. I wasn't going with a " flyer" but am now re-thinking this. Being a one person submersible no doubt it will have a low centre of buoyancy. If I have a small 2 axis joystick for vertical thruster control on the top of my main horizontal thruster 2 axis joystick, ( similar to David's controller with the chinaman's hat being the vertical control ) then I will be able to roll using the X axis. I could fine tune this by having the opposite thruster operate in reverse to a varying degree. At the press of a button I could go out of flight mode by having the X axis input turned off. If you are familiar with the radio control World, they have loads of programable control functions relating to the output from the joysticks. As for any design; "no". I have a general direction reflected in my original CAD design but are going to get all the internal & external components together & fit them in a full sized mock up before I finalise the hull & external structure. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 28/02/2018, at 6:39 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Alan I agree with Sean, the fact that you will be using a PLC gives you a lot of flexibility on configuring the joystick. Before configuring/specifying the joystick, you have to decide if this a ?typical? submersible or ?flyer?. Typical would be like a ?K? boat in which there is a large spread between CB and CG so that by design you do not want roll control but you would like sway and heave control. A ?flyer? is a submersible in which the CB-CG spread is low and the intent is to be able to control both pitch and roll via the joystick but not sway. My boat is a ?flyer? and the design intent was to be able to mimic the stick movement in a plane, i.e., port/starboard movement of the joystick would give roll control, and bow/stern movement of the joystick pitch control. For my boat I have forward/backward and speed control via a foot pedal. I have gone through a number of orientations of my joystick. Originally I used a 3-axis joystick with analog buttons from Suregrip Controls out of Canada http://www.suregripcontrols.com/sure-grip-products . They can configure just about anything you want. Good quality and heavy duty but a bit pricey. I ended up pulling it out when I relocated the joystick away from a center stick location to the side to make it easier on the pilot getting in and out. The operating envelope of this joystick was just too large in this new location. I currently use a mini three axis from CH products I ordered from digikey. See https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=679-2264-nd So before we go too far with this thread, we need to know what is the design intent of the boat you are designing, i.e., ?typical? or ?flyer?? Got any drawings you want to share? Cliff On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:54 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thanks Ian, I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive, you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction. I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie. you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down! I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the top of the main joy stick shaft. I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo the controllers are just out of view) On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds. Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I was thinking of going with something like this: https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control. Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options. This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction, can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface. There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches, which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction. Cheers, Ian. -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick Well there is this product.... Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button! Sent from my iPad On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Thanks Sean & David, hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming. Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big. David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300- won't you! That's not bad. Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2 axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows: Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane. Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual. Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Thanks Sean, sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up. I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to turn the sub on it's axis. On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, & not on & off. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights > or display control etc. > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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