[PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick

Tue Feb 27 03:54:08 EST 2018

Thanks Ian,
I have had a look at that style with the extra axis controlled by a twisting
of the handle. The X & Y axis for the horizontal thrusters is ok & quite intuitive,
you basically point the stick in the direction you want to go & the further
from centre you push it the faster you go in that direction.
   I am trying to find something just as intuitive for the vertical thrusters, ie.
you push the stick upward you go up, you push it down, you go down!
I haven't been able to find a combination like that. The game flight controllers
come close, as does David's flight controller with the small joy stick at the
top of the main joy stick shaft. 
I don't want a large central joystick & intend to have a smaller one at the end
of an arm rest on one side. A bit like how it is set up in Graham Hawkes
Dragon submersible except all the controls on one side. (In the attached photo
the controllers are just out of view)
On my ambient I control it with a $30- play station 2 controller. For controlling
thrusters you don't need a huge degree of accuracy, if you want subtle control
at low speed to hover you can program that in as they do on radio control
units, to get more sensitivity at low speeds.
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 27/02/2018, at 8:50 PM, irox via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> I was thinking of going with something like this:
> https://p3america.com/zc/try100.pdf
> 3-axis version probably, providing "yaw" control.  Price range is $120-$300 depending on model/options.
> This version will also give a more analog type control, so how far the joystick is moved in a direction,
> can be used as a signal for things percentage of power/thrust, or relative position of a control surface.
> 
> There are cheaper options (~$70 range), but these will tend to use micro-switches or momentary-switches,
> which will only provide an on/off signal for a particular direction.
> 
> Cheers,
>  Ian.
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles 
> Sent: Feb 26, 2018 8:26 PM 
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Joystick 
> 
> Well there is this product....
> Logitech G Saitek X52 Flight Control System
> Has everything you'd want; 3x2 axis functions, there is even a safety cover over the missile button!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 27/02/2018, at 3:16 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Sean & David,
>> hadn't thought of having fixed depth control. Am going to have a depth
>> limiting function with a limitation on max depth & a diving limit for novices
>> set on the HMI. Amazing what you can add on just with a bit of programming.
>> Have looked at 1000s of joysticks but can't find what I want. The unit that David
>> has comes close with that Chinaman's hat 2 axis joystick on top. But too big.
>> David when you mount it on another 2 axis system you will be up around $300-
>> won't you! That's not bad.
>> Found a small video of it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Uiag2Coegw
>> I am feeling more convinced that I will make an ergonomic grip on an off the shelf
>> semi-industrial joystick & add some buttons & a small vertically mounted 2
>> axis joystick similar to the Chinaman's hat. Really didn't want extra work!
>> Cheers Alan
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On 27/02/2018, at 12:30 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you have the PLC then I would definitely take advantage of buttons on the stick as follows:
>>> 
>>> Have a thumb switch to jog depth, but as soon as you release the switch, the system uses the instantaneous current depth as the depth setpoint, and implement PID control on the PLC to operate the vertical thrusters as necessary to maintain depth at that setpoint. 
>>> 
>>> Similarly, use the Z axis of a three axis stick to turn (yaw) the vessel, but as soon as you release that axis back to the neutral position (spring return), the system uses the instantaneous azimuth as a heading setpoint, and automatically operates thrusters as necessary to maintain heading. This will be particularly useful if you're operating a manipulator when not bottomed, as all you need to do in that case is control the vessel's movement in a 2D plane.
>>> 
>>> Surge and sway motions should have thruster output proportional to stick displacement, but you might consider a switch function to enable cruise control. I would definitely use spring return to neutral on all axes though (safety). Allow the stick to go neutral after engaging cruise once, but any subsequent stick movement drops it back to manual.
>>> 
>>> Reading stick inputs through the PLC also permits you to have a configurable deadband around the neutral position, which is useful to avoid creep if your hand is resting on the stick at all.
>>> 
>>> Sean
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 16:00, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Sean,
>>> sounds like I got my X & Y mixed up.
>>> I don't think I need a yaw motion from the rotation of the joystick as
>>> I get this with a combination of X & Y. The tractor steering on my ambient
>>> works well, & this just has an X & Y axis on the horizontal thrusters. I could
>>> however feed the control through the PLC & put in some logic so that when 
>>> I go nearly full left on the joy stick, the right hand thruster goes in reverse to 
>>> turn the sub on it's axis. 
>>> On my ambient sub I have a separate joy stick for the horizontal thrusters ( PS2 controller ). This is reasonably intuitive but takes two hands, & I want a hand 
>>> free for a camera, HMI or manipulator. 
>>> If I can't find anything off the shelf it may come down to putting a small finger
>>> operated joystick horizontally off the main joystick shaft.
>>> Cheers Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On 27/02/2018, at 11:15 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would stick with an intuitive control scheme, and find a joystick with three axes. Forward / back Y axis corresponds to ahead / astern propulsion (surge), left / right X axis corresponds to straight lateral motion (sway), and rotating the stick clockwise or counterclockwise around the Z axis corresponds to turning (yaw) motion. Three axis sticks are pretty common industrial controls, although I don't know about meeting your budget. For depth control (heave), you could use a stick with an additional thumb wheel or accessory axis, or make use of a simple switch, but ramp the output in proportion to how long you hold the digital state changed. You could also have a button which toggles e.g. your stick's Y axis between surge and heave control modes. Wanting single stick control limits your options a bit, unless you're also using a PLC / PAC, in which case you could use joystick buttons just to jog your depth setpoint, and rely on other code to actually implement an associated control algorithm.
>>>> 
>>>> Sean
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> On Feb 26, 2018, 14:48, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Should mention that the buttons or whatever for the vertical 
>>>> thrusters will have to be analogue to give me speed control, 
>>>> & not on & off. 
>>>> Cheers Alan 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad 
>>>> 
>>>> > On 27/02/2018, at 10:36 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: 
>>>> > 
>>>> > Am looking for a semi industrial or industrial joystick for controlling 
>>>> > 4 thrusters; two vertical, two horizontal. 
>>>> > I want to operate it with one hand. The X axis will be the horizontal thrusters 
>>>> > throttle forward & reverse, the Y axis is the horizontal thrusters proportional 
>>>> > speed for turning ( pretty standard ). The vertical thruster control is what I 
>>>> > am having trouble with; I want it to be as intuitive as possible & have seen 
>>>> > buttons on joystick shafts that could be used for up & down. In the attached 
>>>> > picture the buttons are on the top of the shaft in the left hand example. 
>>>> > I am also wanting the unit pretty small, so small intuitive, one handed operation. 
>>>> > It doesn't matter if there is a few extra buttons as I could use these for lights 
>>>> > or display control etc. 
>>>> > If anyone knows of anything, or has a better solution, I would be interested 
>>>> > thanks. Oh yeah, & not really expensive! 
>>>> > Alan 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > Sent from my iPad 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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