From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 1 01:31:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 19:31:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, your ice cube submarine complies with G.L. rules for submarines in many respects. It's buoyancy is 10% of it's pressure tight volume for one. Happy New Year everyone, what a great group of people. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 1/01/2018, at 11:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Happy new year, my wife just gave me a drink with an ice cube shaped like a submarine lol > Hank > > On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 2:55:46 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Happy New year ! > > Brian Cox > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 > > In fact, Happy New Year to one and all. > Dive safe. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Happy New Year to you, as well. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > Thanks Vance, > great stuff, Happy New Year. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: via Personal_Submersibles > To: personal_submersibles > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism > > River, > GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that. > As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is > 2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatch > will still be seeing. > Wonder if Vance has any experience on this? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. > > "2.1 > The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. > In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." > > Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! > > Thanks, > > -River J. Dolfi > rdolfi7 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 1 09:21:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2018 14:21:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism In-Reply-To: References: <20171231135532.2D1F9362@m0117567.ppops.net> <1750773229.6916480.1514760109224@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1580358095.7090544.1514816507530@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,My ice cube submarine also has variable displacement.Hank On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 11:31:49 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?your ice cube submarine complies with G.L. rules for submarines in manyrespects. It's buoyancy is 10% of it's pressure tight volume for one.Happy New Year everyone, what a great group of people.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 11:41 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Happy new year, my wife just gave me a drink with an ice cube shaped like a submarine lolHank On Sunday, December 31, 2017, 2:55:46 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Happy New year !???????? ?Brian Cox --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:42:13 -0500 In fact, Happy New Year to one and all.Dive safe.Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Happy New Year to you, as well.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism Thanks Vance,?great stuff, Happy New Year.Alan Sent from my iPad On 1/01/2018, at 3:30 AM, via Personal_Submersibles wrote: And speaking of springs, we always terminated each of the MBT blow lines (externally) with a check valve. It keeps the lines clear and you don't get water backing up to your panel valves at depth. TIP: Use ball type. The piston type check valves do an incredibly good impersonation of sustained flatulence. It makes the passengers giggle helplessly.Vance -----Original Message----- From: via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 9:19 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism You are almost always dealing with a vacuum when returning to the surface, which in any case you can control over time via the life support system. We used a 1/4" ball valve of the HP air bank to equalize. On the Perry boats, an external vent line was routed from the penetrator up to the conning tower and wrapped in an inverted 'J' over the aft viewport. That way venting out cleared the line. There was no over pressurization valve as such. We depended on pilots, not springs. I've seen a lot of chatter about potential leakage into the cabin from the valves and connections on HP air systems at depth. That's what the barometer is for. I've cancelled exactly one dive for that, and snugged up a couple of fittings on the job, as it were. That's why you always carry tools and a bottle of Snoop. It is also why we don't use hardware store fittings. Best quality materials and proper installation pays off in the end.Vance -----Original Message----- From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 12:49 am Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hatch Closure Mechanism River,GL also requires an over-pressure valve so I think this is in addition to that.As Steve pointed out, if the closing spring on the over-pressure valve is?2psi then that is 620 lb. pressure (Steve makes it 1000kg) that the hatchwill still be seeing.Wonder if Vance has any experience on this?Alan Sent from my iPad On 31/12/2017, at 5:52 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ooops, ignore that previous rule. I was reading the Lloyds of London rules, not German Lloyds. "2.1 The access and exit hatches shall be provided with a closing mechanism which makes it possible to create, even when the submersible is surfaced, a sufficient contact force on the hatch sealing. Sealing systems for hatch covers shall be approved by the Society. In addition the closing mechanism shall be designed in a way that opening of the hatch is only possible after pressure equalization has happened, see [4]." Of course, now that I think about it, this requirement is redundant. If an overpressure valve is installed, there would never be high pressure in the cabin to need to relieve. If there is an underpressure, you wouldn't be able to open the hatch anyway! Thanks, -River J. Dolfi rdolfi7 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 07:14:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 12:14:41 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air wand In-Reply-To: <20171225151708.2D19D2A8@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20171225151708.2D19D2A8@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian I made one very similar. Its a high powered dingy inflator, with the flexible hose connected to a long piece of plastic pipe. I have it rigged up on the support boat ready for use. On 25 December 2017 at 23:17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, > I was thinking of making a retractable pole type extension with > a air hose attached for a potential sub rescue device. It would have a > rolled pressure hose and would unreel as you extend it. You could stick it > under someone's ballast tank to give them lift if they were out of ballast > air or instance. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 12:06:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 09:06:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air wand Message-ID: <20180102090640.2D1F6195@m0117459.ppops.net> James, That's a great idea as well, to be able to inflate a dingy that would normally be neutral buoyant. Along with the hydraulic chainsaw ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air wand Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 12:14:41 +0000 Hi Brian I made one very similar. Its a high powered dingy inflator, with the flexible hose connected to a long piece of plastic pipe. I have it rigged up on the support boat ready for use. On 25 December 2017 at 23:17, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, > I was thinking of making a retractable pole type extension with > a air hose attached for a potential sub rescue device. It would have a > rolled pressure hose and would unreel as you extend it. You could stick it > under someone's ballast tank to give them lift if they were out of ballast > air or instance. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 15:33:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 09:33:26 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection Message-ID: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> Hi, am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the HMI & for alarms. I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) This item has just enough analog inputs. Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been looking at... https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL Is a bit expensive at $999- I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments about what I'm looking at. The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 16:15:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2018 15:15:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201801022114.w02LEkAB059685@whoweb.com> Alan, I can give you the info on what we used on Pisces VI, but we spent $5,000. Quality was more important than price to us. Thanks,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/2/18 2:33 PM (GMT-06:00) To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection Hi,am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI.Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basicPLC programming course in RSLogix 500.I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analogoutput plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on theHMI & for alarms.I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the AutomationDirect Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLChttps://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC)This item has just enough analog inputs.Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have beenlooking at...https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CLIs a bit expensive at $999-I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop inthe past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to thephotoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that.Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments?about what I'm looking at.?The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25.Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size?Thanks,Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 17:07:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 17:07:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> References: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401d38416$1081b800$31852800$@indy.rr.com> Alan, I would also check with ezautomation. The big boys (Rockwell-Allen Bradley/GE/Siemens etc.) are expensive on the software side as well as the hardware. Places like ezautomation provide a lot of the software for free. However it isn?t as full featured as the bigger brands but it will work. Based on your programming class you should find programing these other brands easy (I find ladder logic is basically the same across vendors). I would say the cheaper brands (hardware) may not be as ?industrial/reliable? as the more expensive hardware. Cliff has some real world PLC/sub data. Carsten has some nice HMIs as well. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 3:33 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection Hi, am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the HMI & for alarms. I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) This item has just enough analog inputs. Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been looking at... https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL Is a bit expensive at $999- I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments about what I'm looking at. The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? Thanks, Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 17:17:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 11:17:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <201801022114.w02LEkAB059685@whoweb.com> References: <201801022114.w02LEkAB059685@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <1F738C4E-939B-44E0-BE63-47BA57699E9B@yahoo.com> Scott, thanks but $5000 is more than I want to spend on it. I can probably do the screen & PLC for under $1500 with automation direct. Wow big learning curves for you with Pisces; better than a University education. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/01/2018, at 10:15 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > I can give you the info on what we used on Pisces VI, but we spent $5,000. Quality was more important than price to us. > > Thanks, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Date: 1/2/18 2:33 PM (GMT-06:00) > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection > > Hi, > am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. > Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic > PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. > I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog > output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the > HMI & for alarms. > I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation > Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) > This item has just enough analog inputs. > Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been > looking at... > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL > Is a bit expensive at $999- > I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in > the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the > photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. > Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments > about what I'm looking at. > The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. > Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? > Thanks, > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 17:22:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:22:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?PLC_HMI_selection?= In-Reply-To: <1F738C4E-939B-44E0-BE63-47BA57699E9B@yahoo.com> References: <201801022114.w02LEkAB059685@whoweb.com> <1F738C4E-939B-44E0-BE63-47BA57699E9B@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180102222239.10250.qmail@server268.com> Alan, There is a reason I have 15 employees. haha. There is no way I could learn all this in 5 years time. The learning curve is extreme! lol Thank you, Scott Waters > -------Original Message------- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection > Sent: Jan 02 '18 16:19 > > Scott, > thanks but $5000 is more than I want to spend on it. > I can probably do the screen & PLC for under $1500 with automation > direct. > Wow big learning curves for you with Pisces; better than a University > education. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 3/01/2018, at 10:15 AM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Alan, > > > > I can give you the info on what we used on Pisces VI, but we spent > > $5,000. Quality was more important than price to us. > > > > Thanks, > > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > Date: 1/2/18 2:33 PM (GMT-06:00) > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection > > > > Hi, > > am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. > > Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a > > basic > > PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. > > I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital > > & 1 analog > > output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display > > on the > > HMI & for alarms. > > I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the > > Automation > > Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC > > > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) > > This item has just enough analog inputs. > > Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this > > item I have been > > looking at... > > > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL > > Is a bit expensive at $999- > > I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with > > photoshop in > > the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has > > similarities to the > > photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too > > concerned about that. > > Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any > > comments > > about what I'm looking at. > > The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The > > HMI is IP 25. > > Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the > > correct size? > > Thanks, > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > ------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 17:44:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 16:44:50 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> References: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan I have been very happy over the years with automationdirect PLCs and HMI. Technical support is excellent. the PLC you have speced should work fine. They have a lot of different systems but the one I use is the DirectLogic 205 (Micro Modular PLC). I have a 9 slot base that runs off 24VDC. I use the Cmore Ea9-T8CL C-more EA9 series touch screen HMI, 8in color TFT LCD, 800 x 600 pixel. The current configuration on the R300 uses 20 analog input channels, 2 RDT, 10 digital input, 2 RS232, 6 analog output and 9 digital output channels. I am currently using the D2-260 cpu but I would use the newer Do-more cpu if I rebuilt the system. I would not use any smaller than a 8" HMI. Programming the PLC ladder logic is straight forward. You would have two options for data logging with what you have configured. The PLC has data logging and the cmore EA9-T8CL also has data logging via SD card. Data logging is real nice was of analyzing the dive after the fact. Cliff On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi, > am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. > Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic > PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. > I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 > analog > output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the > HMI & for alarms. > I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the > Automation > Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/ > Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_ > Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) > This item has just enough analog inputs. > Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I > have been > looking at... > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_( > Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_ > Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL > Is a bit expensive at $999- > I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with > photoshop in > the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities > to the > photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned > about that. > Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments > about what I'm looking at. > The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI > is IP 25. > Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct > size? > Thanks, > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 18:48:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 15:48:43 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection Message-ID: <20180102154843.B890EE7F@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 2 19:00:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 13:00:55 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: References: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, glad to hear you have 49 I/Os, I thought I was getting carried away at 53. My trouble is I want 41 analog inputs, & the Automation direct stackable micro series only has 4 channels per slot, with a maximum of 8 additional slots. I really liked that PLC but will have to compromise on my analog or look elsewhere. Yes I like the idea of data logging. The PLCs first job will be monitoring my thruster testing & logging temperature. Thanks for the heads up on the screen size. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/01/2018, at 11:44 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan I have been very happy over the years with automationdirect PLCs and HMI. Technical support is excellent. the PLC you have speced should work fine. They have a lot of different systems but the one I use is the > DirectLogic 205 (Micro Modular PLC). I have a 9 slot base that runs off 24VDC. I use the Cmore Ea9-T8CL C-more EA9 series touch screen HMI, 8in color TFT LCD, 800 x 600 pixel. The current configuration on the R300 uses 20 analog input channels, 2 RDT, 10 digital input, 2 RS232, 6 analog output and 9 digital output channels. I am currently using the D2-260 cpu but I would use the newer Do-more cpu if I rebuilt the system. I would not use any smaller than a 8" HMI. Programming the PLC ladder logic is straight forward. > You would have two options for data logging with what you have configured. The PLC has data logging and the cmore EA9-T8CL also has data logging via SD card. Data logging is real nice was of analyzing the dive after the fact. > > Cliff > > > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi, >> am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. >> Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic >> PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. >> I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog >> output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the >> HMI & for alarms. >> I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation >> Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC >> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) >> This item has just enough analog inputs. >> Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been >> looking at... >> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL >> Is a bit expensive at $999- >> I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in >> the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the >> photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. >> Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments >> about what I'm looking at. >> The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. >> Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? >> Thanks, >> Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 04:57:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 22:57:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <003401d38416$1081b800$31852800$@indy.rr.com> References: <6FA472A8-E90F-4940-8ED1-3A28E068AFF2@yahoo.com> <003401d38416$1081b800$31852800$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <9B156040-6E56-405D-8AD5-993301AED749@yahoo.com> Thanks Steve, this EZrack 7 slot module is looking pretty good. http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm# They are just about giving it away. The other option I am looking at is Cliff's 9 slot DL205 from automation direct. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_(Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular)/DirectLogic_205_(Micro_Modular_PLC)#btn-bar-c Any preference? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/01/2018, at 11:07 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I would also check with ezautomation. The big boys (Rockwell-Allen Bradley/GE/Siemens etc.) are expensive on the software side as well as the hardware. Places like ezautomation provide a lot of the software for free. However it isn?t as full featured as the bigger brands but it will work. > > Based on your programming class you should find programing these other brands easy (I find ladder logic is basically the same across vendors). > > I would say the cheaper brands (hardware) may not be as ?industrial/reliable? as the more expensive hardware. > > Cliff has some real world PLC/sub data. Carsten has some nice HMIs as well. > > Steve > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 3:33 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection > > Hi, > am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. > Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic > PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. > I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog > output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the > HMI & for alarms. > I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation > Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) > This item has just enough analog inputs. > Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been > looking at... > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL > Is a bit expensive at $999- > I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in > the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the > photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. > Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments > about what I'm looking at. > The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. > Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? > Thanks, > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 08:20:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 8:20:25 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <9B156040-6E56-405D-8AD5-993301AED749@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180103132025.7UGCC.168110.root@cdptpa-web16> Alan, no preference. I believe these companies offer similar quality products and support (to Cliff's point). You might call both of the tech support lines are part of your process and verify you see the same level of support. I have only used ezautomation HMI hardware/software. I normally work with Rockwell-Allen Bradley. Just make sure the memory/future expansion potential is sufficient. I find you can write ladder logic that works but if you are new to it you might use more instructions (memory) to achieve the same thing an experienced person would do with less (program efficiency). Thanks, Steve ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Steve, > this EZrack 7 slot module is looking pretty good. > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm# > They are just about giving it away. > The other option I am looking at is Cliff's 9 slot DL205 from automation > direct. > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_(Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular)/DirectLogic_205_(Micro_Modular_PLC)#btn-bar-c > Any preference? > Alan > Sent from my iPad > > > On 3/01/2018, at 11:07 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Alan, I would also check with ezautomation. The big boys (Rockwell-Allen Bradley/GE/Siemens etc.) are expensive on the software side as well as the hardware. Places like ezautomation provide a lot of the software for free. However it isn?t as full featured as the bigger brands but it will work. > > > > Based on your programming class you should find programing these other brands easy (I find ladder logic is basically the same across vendors). > > > > I would say the cheaper brands (hardware) may not be as ?industrial/reliable? as the more expensive hardware. > > > > Cliff has some real world PLC/sub data. Carsten has some nice HMIs as well. > > > > Steve > > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 3:33 PM > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection > > > > Hi, > > am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. > > Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic > > PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. > > I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog > > output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the > > HMI & for alarms. > > I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation > > Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC > > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) > > This item has just enough analog inputs. > > Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been > > looking at... > > https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL > > Is a bit expensive at $999- > > I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in > > the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the > > photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. > > Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments > > about what I'm looking at. > > The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. > > Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? > > Thanks, > > Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 09:55:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 9:55:26 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light 12VDC Adaption Message-ID: <20180103145526.1POPW.169123.root@cdptpa-web16> I was reviewing the 10K LED psub light project (Cliff's) and noticed the input voltage requirements are stated as 5-40VDC. Anyone applied this light to a 12VDC system yet? Thanks, Steve From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 10:52:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:52:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing In-Reply-To: <20171224202850.2D18730D@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20171224202850.2D18730D@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hey Brian - Just catching up on weeks of email after a prolonged absence. There are tests that you can do to concrete samples to establish their strength, but generally these are samples which are cast in a particular shape and cured to specification to validate the composition and cure of an intended pour. Anything can be tested, but you're really talking about a unique test for an already fabricated part, in which case the the test is not to an established protocol but rather tailored to what you want to get out of it. I could quote some testing for you, but I suspect that the quote will not be in the same order of magnitude that you're looking for. Do you know exactly what you're trying to determine? Concrete is much stronger in compression than it is in tension, which is why we use steel reinforcement in concrete structures, and why "pre-tensioning" is a thing (actually pre-compressing the concrete, and tensioning the steel members, so that as a concrete beam is subject to tension, it actually is just reducing the compressive force but is still in compression). Concrete designs should strive to load concrete in pure compression and minimize tensional, torsional, and bending loads wherever possible. What is your ferrocement layup? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 24, 2017, 20:28, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey Sean, > I have a number of sections of my ferro -cement hull ( 12" x 16" x 1 1/2") . Is there anyway to have a strength test done on these? I don't know if the test could be extrapolated to larger sections or not . Also I have ribs within the structure at 18" intervals so obviously it would not account for that. I have the sections because I cut out access holes to enable me to better seal the inside. > > Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 11:45:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 08:45:46 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Message-ID: <20180103084546.B890CFE9@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 13:10:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 13:10:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. I am wondering how others are managing. Thanks, Steve From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 14:04:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:04:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <1753575181.595620.1515006249041@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,Here in Canada we can not keep our original tank, it is swapped out. ?I fill ?from a 122 cu ft tank into my small aluminum medical tanks. ?I think Sean's suggestion of a charcoal filter on the scrubber is a good idea to maybe pick up a nasty.Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 11:10:41 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. I am wondering how others are managing. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 14:06:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:06:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing In-Reply-To: <20180103084546.B890CFE9@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180103084546.B890CFE9@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <577437462.582192.1515006371067@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,If your interested in an underwater habitat made from concrete, I can send you a study on concrete spheres done off the California coast over 20 years if memory serves? ?You can make a buoyant concrete sphere for well over 1,000 feet.Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 9:46:02 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Sean,???? ????????? The thought of testing occurred to me after I cut out five access holes from the bottom of my ferro-cement hull .? I had to do this to better seal the joint which runs horizontally joining the two halves of the hull.? The construction of the hull has 3" ribs every 18" , those were set up first and then stringers of 5/16ths?(hot rolled)?were run connecting all the ribs, then diagonals, using spring wire ( about 1/8th inch,?to keep shape) were run in opposing directions.? Then after that 4 layers of 1/2" aviary hex wire was tied to each side for a total of 8 layers of wire. So there's a mass of metal in there !?? I used a 2 to 1 sand to cement ratio , and I used a?gradient sand mix that was produce from a rock quarry . so a very hard material with jagged edges?.? The distribution of fines to coarse sand turned out to be a almost prefect match to what was required.? So the actual hull that I have is stronger since I have those ribs every 18", but the samples I have from cutting out the access holes are just in between the ribs and would not represent the overall hull.?? I thought it would be interesting to see what kind of strength the concrete has for someday making a pressure hull for a shallow habitat .??? The pieces I have are 12" x 16" x 1 1/2" .??Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:52:24 -0500 Hey Brian - Just catching up on weeks of email after a prolonged absence. There are tests that you can do to concrete samples to establish their strength, but generally these are samples which are cast in a particular shape and cured to specification to validate the composition and cure of an intended pour. Anything can be tested, but you're really talking about a unique test for an already fabricated part, in which case the the test is not to an established protocol but rather tailored to what you want to get out of it. I could quote some testing for you, but I suspect that the quote will not be in the same order of magnitude that you're looking for. Do you know exactly what you're trying to determine? Concrete is much stronger in compression than it is in tension, which is why we use steel reinforcement in concrete structures, and why "pre-tensioning" is a thing (actually pre-compressing the concrete, and tensioning the steel members, so that as a concrete beam is subject to tension, it actually is just reducing the compressive force but is still in compression). Concrete designs should strive to load concrete in pure compression and minimize tensional, torsional, and bending loads wherever possible. What is your ferrocement layup? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 24, 2017, 20:28, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Hey Sean,????????????????? ????????? I have a number of sections of my ferro -cement hull? ( 12" x 16"? x 1 1/2")?? .? Is there anyway to have a strength test done on these??? I don't know if the test could be extrapolated to larger sections or not .?? Also I have ribs within the structure at 18" intervals so obviously it would not account for that.? I have the sections because I cut out access holes to enable me to better seal the inside.?Brian? _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 14:10:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:10:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <1753575181.595620.1515006249041@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> <1753575181.595620.1515006249041@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1815833804.609119.1515006617938@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Sean,I am just curious how you calculated the depth of a concrete sphere. ?What did you use for yield strength? ?It seems to me the compressive strength should be close to the yield strength? ??Just for interest sake Lafarge is producing High Performance concrete at 12,000 psi ?after ?12 hr cure, amazing.Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 12:04:32 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve,Here in Canada we can not keep our original tank, it is swapped out. ?I fill ?from a 122 cu ft tank into my small aluminum medical tanks. ?I think Sean's suggestion of a charcoal filter on the scrubber is a good idea to maybe pick up a nasty.Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 11:10:41 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. I am wondering how others are managing. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 15:12:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 09:12:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection In-Reply-To: <20180103132025.7UGCC.168110.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103132025.7UGCC.168110.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: Thanks for the advice Steve. The Ezautomation is looking best so far but as with a lot of things submarine, the more you delve in to it the more manifoldly complex it gets. I need to study up on temperature sensors etc & make sure exactly what mudules I want. I dont have most of my sensors which is good as I may have to buy sensors to match the input modules, to maximise the channels. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 2:20 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, no preference. I believe these companies offer similar quality products and support (to Cliff's point). You might call both of the tech support lines are part of your process and verify you see the same level of support. > > I have only used ezautomation HMI hardware/software. I normally work with Rockwell-Allen Bradley. > > Just make sure the memory/future expansion potential is sufficient. I find you can write ladder logic that works but if you are new to it you might use more instructions (memory) to achieve the same thing an experienced person would do with less (program efficiency). > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Thanks Steve, >> this EZrack 7 slot module is looking pretty good. >> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm# >> They are just about giving it away. >> The other option I am looking at is Cliff's 9 slot DL205 from automation >> direct. >> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_(Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular)/DirectLogic_205_(Micro_Modular_PLC)#btn-bar-c >> Any preference? >> Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 3/01/2018, at 11:07 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, I would also check with ezautomation. The big boys (Rockwell-Allen Bradley/GE/Siemens etc.) are expensive on the software side as well as the hardware. Places like ezautomation provide a lot of the software for free. However it isn?t as full featured as the bigger brands but it will work. >>> >>> Based on your programming class you should find programing these other brands easy (I find ladder logic is basically the same across vendors). >>> >>> I would say the cheaper brands (hardware) may not be as ?industrial/reliable? as the more expensive hardware. >>> >>> Cliff has some real world PLC/sub data. Carsten has some nice HMIs as well. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 3:33 PM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLC HMI selection >>> >>> Hi, >>> am looking at purchasing a PLC & HMI. >>> Don't know a lot about what I am doing other than I have completed a basic >>> PLC programming course in RSLogix 500. >>> I will be having at least 31 analog & 4 digital inputs and 7 digital & 1 analog >>> output plus HMI connection. So most of the input is just for display on the >>> HMI & for alarms. >>> I want the PLC to be as small as possible & have been looking at the Automation >>> Direct Productivity 1000 stackable Micro PLC >>> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/Productivity_Series_Controllers/Productivity1000_(Stackable_Micro_PLC) >>> This item has just enough analog inputs. >>> Also I am looking at a 7-8" HMI screen. Automation Direct have this item I have been >>> looking at... >>> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/HMI_(Human_Machine_Interface)/C-more_Touch_Panels/C-more_Touch_Panels_EA9_Series/C-more_EA9_Series_Touch_Panels/EA9-T8CL >>> Is a bit expensive at $999- >>> I envisage I will be designing the graphics; have done a lot with photoshop in >>> the past & a tiny bit of annimation, so any program that has similarities to the >>> photoshop format would probably be helpful, however not too concerned about that. >>> Has anybody got any suggestions about suitable PLCs & HMIs or any comments >>> about what I'm looking at. >>> The PLC has a 125V DC input, I couldn't see an IP rating for it. The HMI is IP 25. >>> Cliff, what size screen do you have & are you feeling it is the correct size? >>> Thanks, >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 15:40:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 09:40:14 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 10K LED Light 12VDC Adaption In-Reply-To: <20180103145526.1POPW.169123.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103145526.1POPW.169123.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <4B6A1118-DD68-4013-893C-C851D16270AB@yahoo.com> Steve, I ran my 70W 36V light off 12V for about 1/2 hour as a spot light on a boat last week. The driver was the main worry, as the efficiency goes down the further apart the input & output voltages are, & that produces more heat. The driver didn't seem to get too hot, but I had previously heat sinked one of the components that was getting hot on to the aluminium casing. The light itself cant be used out of water too long. Last I heard Cliff was still looking to put a driver in the back of the light, whereas Alec had built one of Cliffs lights & used an off the shelf buck/boost driver. Another consideration ( you will probably know this) is you may have to beef up the wiring from the battery to the driver as it will be carrying just over 8 amps whereas the output to the light will be about 3 amps. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 3:55 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I was reviewing the 10K LED psub light project (Cliff's) and noticed the input voltage requirements are stated as 5-40VDC. Anyone applied this light to a 12VDC system yet? > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 17:21:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <2EB553D7-1D26-435A-AC5C-776D14E63E9D@yahoo.com> Steve, not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some sort of certificate from you before they fill. Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 17:23:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:23:14 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <17AC26A7-7667-463C-889A-DC56CE8A9611@yahoo.com> Steve, the dive shop will only fill O2 to 2000psi. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 17:59:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 14:59:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Message-ID: <20180103145904.B88FD932@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 18:06:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 18:06:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: Hi Steve, I've had the same experience as Hank. You buy a tank, but each time you refill it you turn it in and are given a different one. I really don't see this as a problem, in fact I like it because the gas company takes care of tank inspections and maintenance. If you wanted extra security, I would suggest checking the contents of each tank with a gas analyzer rather than trying to always use the same tank. It really doesn't matter which tank it is, just what's inside. Best, Alec On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 18:16:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 15:16:56 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180103151656.B88FC630@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 19:04:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:04:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103151656.B88FC630@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180103151656.B88FC630@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6D97E503-E71C-47A2-85AB-DAAA9008B5E9@yahoo.com> Brian, I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. Now have a card with my face on it. I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much more expensive & intense. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > Steve, > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 19:22:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <6D97E503-E71C-47A2-85AB-DAAA9008B5E9@yahoo.com> References: <20180103151656.B88FC630@m0117457.ppops.net> <6D97E503-E71C-47A2-85AB-DAAA9008B5E9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F053997-4D27-4024-BFAD-EFC7C66F0367@yahoo.com> Brian, here is a link with some info. https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will probably run a course if they have a few interested people. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > Now have a card with my face on it. > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > more expensive & intense. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >> >> Steve, >> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop >> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were >> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or >> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive >> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some >> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but >> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via >> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure >> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of >> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of >> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ >> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only >> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub >> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >> >> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. >> >> I am wondering how others are managing. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 19:37:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 16:37:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180103163706.B8982FF6@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 19:52:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103163706.B8982FF6@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180103163706.B8982FF6@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <9B28BE4C-A2BB-4C6C-A10B-643F143C7977@yahoo.com> Brian, fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or ABS. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > Brian, > here is a link with some info. > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > Now have a card with my face on it. > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > more expensive & intense. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > Steve, > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 20:15:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 17:15:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 20:35:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:35:08 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, it's 1 atmosphere above the atmosphere in the sub. But as I posted a little while back the more restrictive rule with O2 release in to the cabin is that it is not allowed to increase the O2 % to more than 25%. This is probably due to the heightened fire risk with higher concentrations of O2. If you know the internal volume of your sub then we can calculate the maximum size tank you are allowed. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 2:15 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ? > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > Brian, > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > ABS. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > Brian, > here is a link with some info. > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > Now have a card with my face on it. > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > more expensive & intense. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > Steve, > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 20:49:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:49:39 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: Industrial and medical grade oxygen bottles are both filled from the same bulk cryogenic storage tanks. The difference is in fill procedure. Medical cylinders have a vacuum pulled, are flushed briefly with oxygen at low pressure, have vacuum pulled again, and are then filled to capacity. Industrial cylinders may have one or zero vacuum steps prior to filling to capacity. All else being equal, general-purpose industrial oxygen and medical oxygen should analyze exactly the same. The medical grade, however, is routinely analyzed for CO and total hydrocarbon content, and a paper trail is created to ensure that the medical gas meets USP standards, hence the additional expense compared to industrial gas. Surprisingly, medical oxygen is one of the least pure grades available, with research grades to several nines purity available for comparable cost, because the paper trail for the non-oxygen component is not necessary. Also available in some locations is so-called "aviator's" oxygen, which is the same stuff again, but is analyzed and certified to contain near zero water content, to prevent freezing of oxygen systems in low temperatures at altitude. Realistically, oxygen purity is critically important for divers who may be inhaling any contaminants / non-oxygen components at elevated partial pressures, with all of the physiological implications of that. For submersible atmospheres, which are both normoxic and nominally at normal atmospheric pressure, it is less critical. In a sub, you are exposed to contaminants regardless from other mechanical systems and materials in the habitable space. I wouldn't be concerned about industrial grade oxygen used in a submersible life support system, provided I had performed a basic analysis to confirm e.g. 99.5+% oxygen, and then had some means of charcoal or permanganate filter to remove any hazardous impurities in the cabin air. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 11:10, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. I am wondering how others are managing. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 20:58:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 20:58:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ? > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > Brian, > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > ABS. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 >> Brian, >> here is a link with some info. >> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider >> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will >> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Brian, >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. >>> Now have a card with my face on it. >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much >>> more expensive & intense. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >>>> Steve, >>>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >>>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >>>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >>>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >>>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >>>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >>>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >>>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop >>>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were >>>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or >>>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive >>>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >>>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >>>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some >>>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >>>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but >>>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >>>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >>>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via >>>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure >>>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of >>>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of >>>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ >>>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only >>>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub >>>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. >>>>> >>>>> I am wondering how others are managing. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Steve >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 21:38:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 15:38:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: References: <20180103171501.B8938CD8@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <9EE3795D-16B1-4A87-9C5F-461046B1068D@yahoo.com> Thanks Sean, good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all submarines. In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large deisel electric ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good or bad? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ? > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > Brian, > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > ABS. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > Brian, > here is a link with some info. > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > Now have a card with my face on it. > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > more expensive & intense. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > Steve, > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 21:56:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 21:56:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) Message-ID: Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for these for twenty years. As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Sean, > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all submarines. > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large deisel electric > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good or bad? > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. >> >> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ? >>> >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 >>> Brian, >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or >>> ABS. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 >>>> Brian, >>>> here is a link with some info. >>>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider >>>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will >>>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. >>>>> Now have a card with my face on it. >>>>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager >>>>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. >>>>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. >>>>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card >>>>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it >>>>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. >>>>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. >>>>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much >>>>> more expensive & intense. >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >>>>>> Steve, >>>>>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >>>>>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >>>>>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >>>>>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >>>>>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >>>>>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >>>>>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >>>>>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop >>>>>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were >>>>>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or >>>>>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive >>>>>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >>>>>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >>>>>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some >>>>>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >>>>>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but >>>>>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >>>>>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >>>>>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via >>>>>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure >>>>>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of >>>>>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of >>>>>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ >>>>>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only >>>>>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub >>>>>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am wondering how others are managing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 22:10:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:10:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing In-Reply-To: Ws0SeaJAjDY8NWs0TeVEdO References: Ws0SeaJAjDY8NWs0TeVEdO Message-ID: <000a01d38509$8ff081e0$afd185a0$@telus.net> Underwater habitat??!! I would certainly appreciate it if you would toss a copy of the study my way when able, Hank. Tim From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 2:59 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Sure Hank ! Don't need it this second , but good to know you have that ! Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:06:11 +0000 (UTC) Brian, If your interested in an underwater habitat made from concrete, I can send you a study on concrete spheres done off the California coast over 20 years if memory serves? You can make a buoyant concrete sphere for well over 1,000 feet. Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 9:46:02 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Hi Sean, The thought of testing occurred to me after I cut out five access holes from the bottom of my ferro-cement hull . I had to do this to better seal the joint which runs horizontally joining the two halves of the hull. The construction of the hull has 3" ribs every 18" , those were set up first and then stringers of 5/16ths (hot rolled) were run connecting all the ribs, then diagonals, using spring wire ( about 1/8th inch, to keep shape) were run in opposing directions. Then after that 4 layers of 1/2" aviary hex wire was tied to each side for a total of 8 layers of wire. So there's a mass of metal in there ! I used a 2 to 1 sand to cement ratio , and I used a gradient sand mix that was produce from a rock quarry . so a very hard material with jagged edges . The distribution of fines to coarse sand turned out to be a almost prefect match to what was required. So the actual hull that I have is stronger since I have those ribs every 18", but the samples I have from cutting out the access holes are just in between the ribs and would not represent the overall hull. I thought it would be interesting to see what kind of strength the concrete has for someday making a pressure hull for a shallow habitat . The pieces I have are 12" x 16" x 1 1/2" . Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:52:24 -0500 Hey Brian - Just catching up on weeks of email after a prolonged absence. There are tests that you can do to concrete samples to establish their strength, but generally these are samples which are cast in a particular shape and cured to specification to validate the composition and cure of an intended pour. Anything can be tested, but you're really talking about a unique test for an already fabricated part, in which case the the test is not to an established protocol but rather tailored to what you want to get out of it. I could quote some testing for you, but I suspect that the quote will not be in the same order of magnitude that you're looking for. Do you know exactly what you're trying to determine? Concrete is much stronger in compression than it is in tension, which is why we use steel reinforcement in concrete structures, and why "pre-tensioning" is a thing (actually pre-compressing the concrete, and tensioning the steel members, so that as a concrete beam is subject to tension, it actually is just reducing the compressive force but is still in compression). Concrete designs should strive to load concrete in pure compression and minimize tensional, torsional, and bending loads wherever possible. What is your ferrocement layup? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Dec 24, 2017, 20:28, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: Hey Sean, I have a number of sections of my ferro -cement hull ( 12" x 16" x 1 1/2") . Is there anyway to have a strength test done on these? I don't know if the test could be extrapolated to larger sections or not . Also I have ribs within the structure at 18" intervals so obviously it would not account for that. I have the sections because I cut out access holes to enable me to better seal the inside. Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 22:23:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:23:37 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing Message-ID: <681226513.19426.1515036217686@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 22:32:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:32:45 +0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing In-Reply-To: <577437462.582192.1515006371067@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180103084546.B890CFE9@m0117458.ppops.net> <577437462.582192.1515006371067@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd be interested in a copy of that, too... Is it in digital form? Marc de Piolenc On 1/4/2018 3:06 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Brian, > If your interested in an underwater habitat made from concrete, I can > send you a study on concrete spheres done off the California coast over > 20 years if memory serves? ?You can make a buoyant concrete sphere for > well over 1,000 feet. > Hank > > On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 9:46:02 AM MST, Brian Cox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Sean, > ????????? The thought of testing occurred to me after I cut out five > access holes from the bottom of my ferro-cement hull .? I had to do this > to better seal the joint which runs horizontally joining the two halves > of the hull.? The construction of the hull has 3" ribs every 18" , those > were set up first and then stringers of 5/16ths?(hot rolled)?were run > connecting all the ribs, then diagonals, using spring wire ( about 1/8th > inch,?to keep shape) were run in opposing directions.? Then after that 4 > layers of 1/2" aviary hex wire was tied to each side for a total of 8 > layers of wire. So there's a mass of metal in there !?? I used a 2 to 1 > sand to cement ratio , and I used a?gradient sand mix that was produce > from a rock quarry . so a very hard material with jagged edges?.? The > distribution of fines to coarse sand turned out to be a almost prefect > match to what was required.? So the actual hull that I have is stronger > since I have those ribs every 18", but the samples I have from cutting > out the access holes are just in between the ribs and would not > represent the overall hull.?? I thought it would be interesting to see > what kind of strength the concrete has for someday making a pressure > hull for a shallow habitat .??? The pieces I have are 12" x 16" x 1 1/2" . > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] concrete testing > Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2018 10:52:24 -0500 > > Hey Brian - Just catching up on weeks of email after a prolonged absence. > > There are tests that you can do to concrete samples to establish their > strength, but generally these are samples which are cast in a particular > shape and cured to specification to validate the composition and cure of > an intended pour. Anything can be tested, but you're really talking > about a unique test for an already fabricated part, in which case the > the test is not to an established protocol but rather tailored to what > you want to get out of it. I could quote some testing for you, but I > suspect that the quote will not be in the same order of magnitude that > you're looking for. Do you know exactly what you're trying to determine? > > Concrete is much stronger in compression than it is in tension, which is > why we use steel reinforcement in concrete structures, and why > "pre-tensioning" is a thing (actually pre-compressing the concrete, and > tensioning the steel members, so that as a concrete beam is subject to > tension, it actually is just reducing the compressive force but is still > in compression). Concrete designs should strive to load concrete in pure > compression and minimize tensional, torsional, and bending loads > wherever possible. > > What is your ferrocement layup? > > Sean > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Dec 24, 2017, 20:28, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hey Sean, > ??????????????? ????????? I have a number of sections of my ferro > -cement hull? ( 12" x 16"? x 1 1/2")?? .? Is there anyway to have a > strength test done on these??? I don't know if the test could be > extrapolated to larger sections or not .?? Also I have ribs within > the structure at 18" intervals so obviously it would not account for > that.? I have the sections because I cut out access holes to enable > me to better seal the inside. > Brian > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -- Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380 Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/ From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 22:42:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 21:42:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used was commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, after returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had six different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms and with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over 50 hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune the PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined in my boat for 80 hours and survive. Cliff On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > these for twenty years. > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Thanks Sean, > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > submarines. > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > deisel electric > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > or bad? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list > of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe > slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > already at one atm ? > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > Brian, > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > ABS. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > Brian, > here is a link with some info. > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > Now have a card with my face on it. > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > manager > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > card > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > provide it > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > card. > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > more expensive & intense. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > O2 ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > Steve, > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > dive shop > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > were > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > or > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > & dive > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > some > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > but > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > via > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > pressure > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > of > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > range of > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > 2 differ > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > only > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > person sub > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 3 23:15:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 05:15:53 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] the first step Message-ID: Hi, i first log in this gruop in 2002, i print all the info and use to read, i read about many projects and ideas, and in 2012 i bought the K250 cd, with no guide or building procedure, just the pdf of the plans, also i read about the first submarines made of wood, the diving bells of the 1800, the nemo mad eof acrylic on the 60's, the composite hull`s destructive test`s, the info is overwelming, and the dream of build a sub still here, i take an scuba course, open water 450 dlls, advanced 300, rec3 500, rescue diver 400, first aid 100, and about gear, 200 wet suit 7 mm, 400 regulator set, 150 tank, 60 fins, 40 mask, and 1000 dlls to an instructor that never schedule the class and never return the payment, i never start to build the k 250 because the acrylic dome cost is 1000 usd ( in San Diego ) I waste money taking the scuba classes to be 130 ft for 20 minutes, i want to explore , be more time under the water, in the next days i will sketch a submersible based on the info that i have and will share here , i will not spend more money on scuba classes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 01:19:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 19:19:03 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Sean, hard to find reviews on it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 4/01/2018, at 3:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for these for twenty years. > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Sean, > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all submarines. > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large deisel electric > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good or bad? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. >> >> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ? >> >> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or >> ABS. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 >> >> Brian, >> here is a link with some info. >> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider >> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will >> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Brian, >> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. >> Now have a card with my face on it. >> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager >> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. >> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. >> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 card >> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide it >> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. >> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card. >> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much >> more expensive & intense. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >> >> Steve, >> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shop >> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were >> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or >> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & dive >> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require some >> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, but >> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via >> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure >> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average of >> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range of >> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ >> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is only >> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person sub >> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >> >> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. >> >> I am wondering how others are managing. >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 01:28:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 22:28:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) Message-ID: <20180103222845.B89513F9@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 05:07:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 10:07:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) In-Reply-To: <20180103222845.B89513F9@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180103222845.B89513F9@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <558076956.214648.1515060479398@mail.yahoo.com> Tim and Brian,Even though I am a computer whiz, I can't seem to send the report ;-) . ? It can be found on line if you google "Handbook for design of undersea pressure resistant concrete structures". ?Hank On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 11:28:58 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: That is some fantastic computer control Cliff !?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PLCs (was Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2018 21:42:46 -0600 This summer, 5 miles offshore of IslamoradaFlorida, I spend 5 hours in my psub with the hatch closed the entiretime.? My life was totally in the hands of my life support system that wason full automatic control throughout the dive.? The system workedflawlessly.? The oxygen I used was commercial welding oxygen I transferredfrom a cylinder that gets swapped out every time I take it into thesupplier.? I use a whip that connects from the HP port of a standardwelding regulator to a Swagelok connection on an external 1/4" SS tubingmanifold that connects four externally mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders(2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through thepressure hull and then has a 1/4" high pressure Swagelok valve forisolation.? From there the HP Oxygen passing directly into small box Icall the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym for?Atmospheric Monitoringand Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors are installed inthe AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2and CO2 concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabintemperature and O2 flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2and CO2 sensors are to measure the partial pressure of oxygen and ofcarbon dioxide so that the programmable logic controller (PLC) in automaticmode and the pilot in manual mode can make the adjustments necessary tomaintain the O2 and CO2 levels within acceptablelimits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after returning from the?Islamorada dive I was able to go back andstudy the life support system as well as all the other systems.? Havingall the life support systems sensors?in a single module makes it easy formaintenance?to pull?the AMOC ?box?out of the?R300 andinstall an extension cord for the electrical signals between the AMOC unit andPLC box and fire up the system on the bench.??? To confirm thelife support system was working, I had six different volunteers over a one yearperiod ?with different metabolisms andwith body weights from?90 lbs to?240 lbs ?closed up in the boatfor over 50 hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabledme tune the PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the systemwas working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stayconfined in my boat for 80 hours and survive.? ? Cliff On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for these for twenty years. As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Thanks Sean,?good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now.the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all submarines.In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large deisel electric( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank& starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim.BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all.http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htmI am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good or bad?Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use a greater number of smaller vessels. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Alan,??????? It's a long list !??? What I need to do is make a check list of things I have wrong ;-)??? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe slide on"? !??? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are already at one atm ??I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could really get an idea of what I need !??? For instance I know I need an additional ballast tank HP cylinder.? ?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 Brian,fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & orABS.?Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great info Alan !?????????? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent.?Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 Brian,?here is a link with some info.https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-providerThe best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will?probably run a course if they have a few interested people.Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian,I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2.Now have a card with my face on it.I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the manager& this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2.This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights.?I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 cardthey would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to provide itin a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers.Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the card.The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is muchmore expensive & intense.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,?????????? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering O2 ??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 Steve,not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing.I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy)I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop.Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first.I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage.O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical)http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM-STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htmYou will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. dive shopor medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you were?heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings or?spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical & divesuppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before)?I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don'tlike the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require somesort of certificate from you before they fill.Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, butthis would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs.Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers.I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up via3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low pressure?O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average ofthe 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the range ofone O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest 2 differ?by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is onlya year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one person subI need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. I am wondering how others are managing. Thanks, Steve _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 09:36:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 9:36:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? Thanks, Steve ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used was > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors > are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, after > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms and > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over 50 > hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune the > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > these for twenty years. > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > submarines. > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > deisel electric > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > or bad? > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list > > of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > already at one atm ? > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > Brian, > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > ABS. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > Brian, > > here is a link with some info. > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Brian, > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > manager > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > card > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > provide it > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > card. > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > more expensive & intense. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > O2 ? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > Steve, > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > dive shop > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > were > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > or > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > & dive > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > some > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > but > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > via > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > pressure > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > of > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > range of > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > 2 differ > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > only > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > person sub > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > about not having contamination. > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 09:56:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 09:56:50 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <1815833804.609119.1515006617938@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180103181024.GD7LG.172033.root@cdptpa-web16> <1753575181.595620.1515006249041@mail.yahoo.com> <1815833804.609119.1515006617938@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Spherical pressure hulls approximate pure compression, so using the compressive yield strength is reasonable in that case. When only a single yield value is quoted for concrete, you can assume that it is the compressive value. With cylindrical hulls, the load case is more complicated - you have compressive loading in the circumferential and axial directions, but also interframe bending which could precipitate a crack on the interior mid-bay surface. At that point, it's up to the reinforcement design. A reasonable assumption is to design assuming that the steel must carry all tensional loads, but this is getting beyond me. My experience with composites is limited to fiber-reinforced matrix materials. I have no idea how to analyze a steel-reinforced concrete structure in this application. I would consult an engineer with specific experience in this area. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 12:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Sean, > I am just curious how you calculated the depth of a concrete sphere. What did you use for yield strength? It seems to me the compressive strength should be close to the yield strength? > Just for interest sake Lafarge is producing High Performance concrete at 12,000 psi after 12 hr cure, amazing. > Hank > > On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 12:04:32 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, > Here in Canada we can not keep our original tank, it is swapped out. I fill from a 122 cu ft tank into my small aluminum medical tanks. I think Sean's suggestion of a charcoal filter on the scrubber is a good idea to maybe pick up a nasty. > Hank > > On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, 11:10:41 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good about not having contamination. > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > Thanks, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 09:58:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:58:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <319256394.344482.1515077881017@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Steve,I am having trouble understanding the risk with the aluminum tank. ?If you are diving at max depth your at around 110 lbs pressure. ?The tank will not collapse ?if it has 110 psi in it and it is almost empty by then anyways. ?If the tank did fail it would loose buoyancy, but your sub can easily survive that with the size of your mbt's. ?Hank On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 7:36:48 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? Thanks, Steve ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > Cliff > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > these for twenty years. > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > submarines. > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > deisel electric > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > or bad? > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > > of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > already at one atm ? > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > Brian, > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > ABS. > > Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > Brian, > > here is a link with some info. > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Brian, > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > manager > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > card > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > provide it > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > card. > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > more expensive & intense. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > O2 ? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > Steve, > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > dive shop > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > were > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > or > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > & dive > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > some > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > but > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > via > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > pressure > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > of > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > range of > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > 2 differ > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > only > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > person sub > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > about not having contamination. > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 10:57:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 09:57:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: Steve, to me this failure mode is only possible with an empty O2 cylinder at max design depth. My experience is that the O2 tank pressures remains high almost all the time as typically dive durations are small. So what you are really asking is if you got stuck on the bottom for 72 hours at your maximum design depth would the aluminum cylinders collapse due to out of roundness as you pulled the O2 pressure down to a pressure below ambient. To me this scenario has a very low probability of occurring. To answer your question, no I did not do the calc. Would be easy to take the ABS hull spreadsheet and do the calc as an unsupported cylinder. Cliff On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my > "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about > returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say > 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked > and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). > Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my > designs with data. > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> wrote: > > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in > my > > psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the > > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used > was > > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects > > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP > > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen > > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym > > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors > > are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and > CO2 > > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and > O2 > > flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, > after > > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the > life > > support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life > > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance > to > > pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the > system > > on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had > six > > different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms > and > > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over > 50 > > hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune > the > > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay > confined > > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with > programmable > > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running > a > > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed > with the > > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is > unfortunately > > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing > for > > > these for twenty years. > > > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / > usage. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > > submarines. > > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > > deisel electric > > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 > tank > > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that > good > > > or bad? > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin > pressure > > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, > nor > > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen > cylinder > > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you > use > > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check > list > > > of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can > maybe > > > slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a > volume > > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if > your are > > > already at one atm ? > > > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you > could > > > really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & > or > > > ABS. > > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of > the > > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > here is a link with some info. > > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they > will > > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > > manager > > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > > card > > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > > provide it > > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have > the > > > card. > > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is > much > > > more expensive & intense. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for > administering > > > O2 ? > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > > > Steve, > > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive > shop. > > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > > dive shop > > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If > you > > > were > > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable > fittings > > > or > > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between > medical > > > & dive > > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people > don't > > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may > require > > > some > > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical > O2, > > > but > > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping > up > > > via > > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > > pressure > > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the > average > > > of > > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > > range of > > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the > nearest > > > 2 differ > > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor > is > > > only > > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > > person sub > > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more > quickly. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it > seems > > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external > mounting. My > > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical > grade > > > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to > swap > > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > > about not having contamination. > > > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > 40psubs.org> > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 13:07:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 07:07:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104143634.7EKJV.181442.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <3C57F6D8-3E13-4FEC-BC7B-EF059876E621@yahoo.com> Steve, I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my >> psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the >> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control >> throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used was >> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped >> out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects >> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection >> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally >> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP >> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" >> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen >> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym >> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors >> are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 >> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 >> flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure >> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the >> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in >> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 >> levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, after >> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life >> support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life >> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to >> pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the >> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system >> on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had six >> different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms and >> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over 50 >> hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune the >> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was >> working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined >> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder >>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable >>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board >>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a >>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments >>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although >>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS >>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the >>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately >>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for >>> these for twenty years. >>> >>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful >>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Thanks Sean, >>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. >>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all >>> submarines. >>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large >>> deisel electric >>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank >>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. >>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. >>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm >>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good >>> or bad? >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure >>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure >>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor >>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder >>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. >>> >>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use >>> a greater number of smaller vessels. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list >>> of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe >>> slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being >>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not >>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume >>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are >>> already at one atm ? >>> >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could >>> really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an >>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or >>> ABS. >>> Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the >>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 >>> >>> Brian, >>> here is a link with some info. >>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider >>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will >>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Brian, >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. >>> Now have a card with my face on it. >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the >>> manager >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 >>> card >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to >>> provide it >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the >>> card. >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much >>> more expensive & intense. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering >>> O2 ? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> org> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >>> >>> Steve, >>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- >>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. >>> dive shop >>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you >>> were >>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings >>> or >>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical >>> & dive >>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require >>> some >>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, >>> but >>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up >>> via >>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low >>> pressure >>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average >>> of >>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the >>> range of >>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest >>> 2 differ >>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is >>> only >>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one >>> person sub >>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to >>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >>> >>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems >>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My >>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade >>> 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap >>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good >>> about not having contamination. >>> >>> I am wondering how others are managing. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:14:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:14:08 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Message-ID: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> Understood. However this isn't a "scuba tank" it is a "medical 02 tank". In my mind I wanted to make that comparison but I don't know this tank's thickness. I am also thinking that as long as the internal pressure is greater than the external pressure it is "self compensated". That makes the scenario of concern only when this 2200 psi tank goes below say 200 psi (empty). I was just thinking best practice is to understand when it could fail. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title Thanks, Steve ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium > scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. > https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj > There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about > 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. > If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > >> psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the > >> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > >> throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used was > >> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > >> out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects > >> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > >> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > >> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP > >> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > >> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen > >> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym > >> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors > >> are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > >> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > >> flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > >> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > >> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > >> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > >> levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, after > >> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > >> support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life > >> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > >> pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > >> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > >> on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > >> different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms and > >> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over 50 > >> hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune the > >> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > >> working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > >> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > >> > >> Cliff > >> > >> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > >>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > >>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > >>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > >>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > >>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > >>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > >>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > >>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > >>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > >>> these for twenty years. > >>> > >>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > >>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > >>> > >>> Sean > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks Sean, > >>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > >>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > >>> submarines. > >>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > >>> deisel electric > >>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > >>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > >>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > >>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > >>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > >>> or bad? > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > >>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > >>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > >>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > >>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > >>> > >>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > >>> a greater number of smaller vessels. > >>> > >>> Sean > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list > >>> of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe > >>> slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > >>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > >>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > >>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > >>> already at one atm ? > >>> > >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > >>> really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > >>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > >>> ABS. > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the > >>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> here is a link with some info. > >>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > >>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > >>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > >>> Now have a card with my face on it. > >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > >>> manager > >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > >>> card > >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > >>> provide it > >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > >>> card. > >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > >>> more expensive & intense. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > >>> O2 ? > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > >>> > >>> Steve, > >>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > >>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > >>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > >>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > >>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > >>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > >>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > >>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > >>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > >>> dive shop > >>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > >>> were > >>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > >>> or > >>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > >>> & dive > >>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > >>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > >>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > >>> some > >>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. > >>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > >>> but > >>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > >>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > >>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > >>> via > >>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > >>> pressure > >>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > >>> of > >>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > >>> range of > >>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > >>> 2 differ > >>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > >>> only > >>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > >>> person sub > >>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > >>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > >>> > >>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems > >>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > >>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > >>> 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > >>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > >>> about not having contamination. > >>> > >>> I am wondering how others are managing. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Steve > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:21:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 19:21:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <2003286390.514528.1515093670715@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,Simple to determine the average thickness by the weight, archimedes principal.Hank On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 12:17:25 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Understood. However this isn't a "scuba tank" it is a "medical 02 tank". In my mind I wanted to make that comparison but I don't know this tank's thickness. I am also thinking that as long as the internal pressure is greater than the external pressure it is "self compensated".? That makes the scenario of concern only when this 2200 psi tank goes below say 200 psi (empty). I was just thinking best practice is to understand when it could fail. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title Thanks, Steve ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium > scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. > https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj > There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about > 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. > If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > >> psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > >> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > >> throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > >> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > >> out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > >> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > >> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > >> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > >> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > >> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > >> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > >> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > >> are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > >> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > >> flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > >> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > >> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > >> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > >> levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > >> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > >> support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > >> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > >> pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > >> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > >> on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > >> different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > >> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > >> hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > >> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > >> working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > >> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > >> > >> Cliff > >> > >> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > >>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > >>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > >>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > >>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > >>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > >>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > >>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > >>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > >>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > >>> these for twenty years. > >>> > >>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > >>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > >>> > >>> Sean > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks Sean, > >>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > >>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > >>> submarines. > >>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > >>> deisel electric > >>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > >>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > >>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > >>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > >>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > >>> or bad? > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > >>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > >>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > >>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > >>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > >>> > >>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > >>> a greater number of smaller vessels. > >>> > >>> Sean > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > >>> of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > >>> slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > >>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > >>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > >>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > >>> already at one atm ? > >>> > >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > >>> really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > >>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > >>> ABS. > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > >>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> here is a link with some info. > >>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > >>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > >>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > >>> Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Brian, > >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > >>> Now have a card with my face on it. > >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > >>> manager > >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > >>> card > >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > >>> provide it > >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > >>> card. > >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > >>> more expensive & intense. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > >>> O2 ? > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> org> > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > >>> > >>> Steve, > >>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > >>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > >>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > >>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > >>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > >>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > >>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > >>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > >>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > >>> dive shop > >>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > >>> were > >>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > >>> or > >>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > >>> & dive > >>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > >>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > >>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > >>> some > >>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. > >>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > >>> but > >>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > >>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > >>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > >>> via > >>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > >>> pressure > >>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > >>> of > >>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > >>> range of > >>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > >>> 2 differ > >>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > >>> only > >>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > >>> person sub > >>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > >>> Cheers Alan > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > >>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > >>> > >>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > >>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > >>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > >>> 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > >>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > >>> about not having contamination. > >>> > >>> I am wondering how others are managing. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Steve > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:22:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:22:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <319256394.344482.1515077881017@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180104192244.R6AQ5.185664.root@cdptpa-web16> Hank, Understood and I agree. I am just thinking it is best practice to understand this failure mode and it helps me learn more. What I lack is the tank thickness and I doubt I ever get it. Also the bottom is flat vs. round. I believe that bottom shape might not be a good fit for the calculator. Here is the tank: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Steve,I am having trouble understanding the risk with the aluminum tank. ?If you are diving at max depth your at around 110 lbs pressure. ?The tank will not collapse ?if it has 110 psi in it and it is almost empty by then anyways. ?If the tank did fail it would loose buoyancy, but your sub can easily survive that with the size of your mbt's. ?Hank > On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 7:36:48 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > > psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > > are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > > flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > > support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > > pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > > on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > > different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > > hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > > these for twenty years. > > > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > > submarines. > > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > > deisel electric > > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > > or bad? > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > > > of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > > slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > > already at one atm ? > > > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > > really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > > ABS. > > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > here is a link with some info. > > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > > manager > > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > > card > > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > > provide it > > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > > card. > > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > > more expensive & intense. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > > O2 ? > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > > > Steve, > > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > > dive shop > > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > > were > > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > > or > > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > > & dive > > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > > some > > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > > but > > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > > via > > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > > pressure > > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > > of > > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > > range of > > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > > 2 differ > > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > > only > > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > > person sub > > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > > 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > > about not having contamination. > > > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:25:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 19:25:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104192244.R6AQ5.185664.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <319256394.344482.1515077881017@mail.yahoo.com> <20180104192244.R6AQ5.185664.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <1040209926.522714.1515093911726@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,You know the flat bottom can handle the internal pressure of 2200 psi then being flat it can handle the same in reverse. ?Fill with water, measure the volume, then submerge in water and measure the volume then extrapolate the thickness.Hank On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 12:22:55 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Understood and I agree. I am just thinking it is best practice to understand this failure mode and it helps me learn more. What I lack is the tank thickness and I doubt I ever get it. Also the bottom is flat vs. round. I believe that bottom shape might not be a good fit for the calculator. Here is the tank: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? Hi Steve,I am having trouble understanding the risk with the aluminum tank. ?If you are diving at max depth your at around 110 lbs pressure. ?The tank will not collapse ?if it has 110 psi in it and it is almost empty by then anyways. ?If the tank did fail it would loose buoyancy, but your sub can easily survive that with the size of your mbt's. ?Hank >? ? On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 7:36:48 AM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? >? >? Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > > psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > > are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > > flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > > support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > > pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > > on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > > different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > > hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > > > Cliff > > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > wrote: > > > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > > these for twenty years. > > > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > > submarines. > > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > > deisel electric > > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > > or bad? > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > > > of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > > slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > > already at one atm ? > > > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > > really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > > ABS. > > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > > > Brian, > > > here is a link with some info. > > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > > manager > > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > > card > > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > > provide it > > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > > card. > > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > > more expensive & intense. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > > O2 ? > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > org> > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > > > Steve, > > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > > dive shop > > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > > were > > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > > or > > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > > & dive > > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > > some > > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > > but > > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > > via > > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > > pressure > > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > > of > > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > > range of > > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > > 2 differ > > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > > only > > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > > person sub > > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > > 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > > about not having contamination. > > > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:26:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:26:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180104192610.0UI00.185717.root@cdptpa-web16> Yes that is the scenario. I also agree with your evaluation. I will try the unsupported cylinder calc. if I get the tank thickness. Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Steve ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, to me this failure mode is only possible with an empty O2 cylinder > at max design depth. My experience is that the O2 tank pressures remains > high almost all the time as typically dive durations are small. So what > you are really asking is if you got stuck on the bottom for 72 hours at > your maximum design depth would the aluminum cylinders collapse due to out > of roundness as you pulled the O2 pressure down to a pressure below > ambient. To me this scenario has a very low probability of occurring. To > answer your question, no I did not do the calc. Would be easy to take the > ABS hull spreadsheet and do the calc as an unsupported cylinder. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my > > "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about > > returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say > > 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked > > and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). > > Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my > > designs with data. > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > > > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in > > my > > > psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the > > > hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > > throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used > > was > > > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > > out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects > > > from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > > on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > > mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP > > > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen > > > passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym > > > for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors > > > are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and > > CO2 > > > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and > > O2 > > > flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > > the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > > programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > > manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > > levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, > > after > > > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the > > life > > > support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life > > > support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance > > to > > > pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > > electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the > > system > > > on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had > > six > > > different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms > > and > > > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over > > 50 > > > hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune > > the > > > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > > working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay > > confined > > > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > > Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > > > logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with > > programmable > > > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running > > a > > > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > > > CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > > > considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > > > program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed > > with the > > > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is > > unfortunately > > > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing > > for > > > > these for twenty years. > > > > > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > > > recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / > > usage. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > > > submarines. > > > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > > > deisel electric > > > > ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 > > tank > > > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that > > good > > > > or bad? > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > > > vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin > > pressure > > > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, > > nor > > > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen > > cylinder > > > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you > > use > > > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > > On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check > > list > > > > of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can > > maybe > > > > slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > > > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > > > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a > > volume > > > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if > > your are > > > > already at one atm ? > > > > > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you > > could > > > > really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > > > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & > > or > > > > ABS. > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of > > the > > > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > here is a link with some info. > > > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they > > will > > > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > > > manager > > > > & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > > > card > > > > they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > > > provide it > > > > in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have > > the > > > > card. > > > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is > > much > > > > more expensive & intense. > > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for > > administering > > > > O2 ? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > > > I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive > > shop. > > > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > > > dive shop > > > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If > > you > > > > were > > > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable > > fittings > > > > or > > > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between > > medical > > > > & dive > > > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > > > I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people > > don't > > > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may > > require > > > > some > > > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical > > O2, > > > > but > > > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping > > up > > > > via > > > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > > > pressure > > > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the > > average > > > > of > > > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > > > range of > > > > one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the > > nearest > > > > 2 differ > > > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor > > is > > > > only > > > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > > > person sub > > > > I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more > > quickly. > > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to > > > > again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it > > seems > > > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external > > mounting. My > > > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical > > grade > > > > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to > > swap > > > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > > > about not having contamination. > > > > > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > 40psubs.org> > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:26:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 14:26:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <2003286390.514528.1515093670715@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20180104192651.QDM2V.185730.root@cdptpa-web16> Good idea : ) Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve,Simple to determine the average thickness by the weight, archimedes principal.Hank > On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 12:17:25 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Understood. However this isn't a "scuba tank" it is a "medical 02 tank". In my mind I wanted to make that comparison but I don't know this tank's thickness. > > I am also thinking that as long as the internal pressure is greater than the external pressure it is "self compensated".? That makes the scenario of concern only when this 2200 psi tank goes below say 200 psi (empty). I was just thinking best practice is to understand when it could fail. > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, > > I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium > > scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. > > https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj > > There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about > > 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. > > If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Steve > > > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > > >> psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > > >> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > >> throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > > >> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > >> out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > > >> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > >> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > >> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > > >> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > >> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > > >> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > > >> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > > >> are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > > >> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > > >> flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > >> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > >> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > >> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > >> levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > > >> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > > >> support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > > >> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > > >> pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > >> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > > >> on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > > >> different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > > >> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > > >> hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > > >> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > >> working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > > >> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > >> > > >> Cliff > > >> > > >> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > >>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > >>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > >>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > >>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > >>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > >>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > >>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > >>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > >>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > >>> these for twenty years. > > >>> > > >>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > >>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > >>> > > >>> Sean > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks Sean, > > >>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > >>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > >>> submarines. > > >>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > >>> deisel electric > > >>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > >>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > >>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > >>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > >>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > >>> or bad? > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > >>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > >>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > >>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > >>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > >>> > > >>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > >>> a greater number of smaller vessels. > > >>> > > >>> Sean > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > > >>> of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > >>> slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > > >>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > > >>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > >>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > >>> already at one atm ? > > >>> > > >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > >>> really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > > >>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > >>> ABS. > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > > >>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> here is a link with some info. > > >>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > >>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > >>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > >>> Now have a card with my face on it. > > >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > >>> manager > > >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > >>> card > > >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > >>> provide it > > >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > >>> card. > > >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > >>> more expensive & intense. > > >>> Cheers Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > >>> O2 ? > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Steve, > > >>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > >>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > >>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > >>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > >>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > >>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > >>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > >>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > >>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > >>> dive shop > > >>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > >>> were > > >>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > >>> or > > >>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > >>> & dive > > >>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > >>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > >>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > >>> some > > >>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > >>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > >>> but > > >>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > >>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > >>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > >>> via > > >>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > >>> pressure > > >>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > >>> of > > >>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > >>> range of > > >>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > >>> 2 differ > > >>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > >>> only > > >>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > >>> person sub > > >>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > >>> Cheers Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > > >>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > >>> > > >>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > > >>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > >>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > >>> 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > >>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > >>> about not having contamination. > > >>> > > >>> I am wondering how others are managing. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Steve > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 14:33:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 19:33:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104192651.QDM2V.185730.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <2003286390.514528.1515093670715@mail.yahoo.com> <20180104192651.QDM2V.185730.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <2059293101.505126.1515094386986@mail.yahoo.com> Just bear in mind the bottom will be twice as thick as the side wall when you estimate. ?I have cut an aluminum CO2 tank open and that is what I found.Hank On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 12:30:07 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Good idea : ) Thanks, Steve ---- hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >? Steve,Simple to determine the average thickness by the weight, archimedes principal.Hank >? ? On Thursday, January 4, 2018, 12:17:25 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? >? >? Understood. However this isn't a "scuba tank" it is a "medical 02 tank". In my mind I wanted to make that comparison but I don't know this tank's thickness. > > I am also thinking that as long as the internal pressure is greater than the external pressure it is "self compensated".? That makes the scenario of concern only when this 2200 psi tank goes below say 200 psi (empty). I was just thinking best practice is to understand when it could fail. > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Steve, > > I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium > > scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. > > https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj > > There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about > > 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. > > If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. > > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel).? However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. > > > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Steve > > > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > >> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my > > >> psub with the hatch closed the entire time.? My life was totally in the > > >> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control > > >> throughout the dive.? The system worked flawlessly.? The oxygen I used was > > >> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped > > >> out every time I take it into the supplier.? I use a whip that connects > > >> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection > > >> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally > > >> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size).? The HP > > >> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > >> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation.? From there the HP Oxygen > > >> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit.? AMOC is an acronym > > >> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control.? All life support sensors > > >> are installed in the AMOC module.? These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 > > >> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 > > >> flow rate in SLPM.? The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure > > >> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the > > >> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in > > >> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 > > >> levels within acceptable limits.? Because the PLC has data logging,? after > > >> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life > > >> support system as well as all the other systems.? Having all the life > > >> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to > > >> pull the AMOC? box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the > > >> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system > > >> on the bench.? ? To confirm the life support system was working, I had six > > >> different volunteers over a one year period? with different metabolisms and > > >> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs? closed up in the boat for over 50 > > >> hours with full data logging to test the system.? This enabled me tune the > > >> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was > > >> working.? It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined > > >> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > >> > > >> Cliff > > >> > > >> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder > > >>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable > > >>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > >>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a > > >>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments > > >>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although > > >>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS > > >>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the > > >>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately > > >>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for > > >>> these for twenty years. > > >>> > > >>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful > > >>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. > > >>> > > >>> Sean > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks Sean, > > >>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > >>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all > > >>> submarines. > > >>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large > > >>> deisel electric > > >>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank > > >>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > >>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > >>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > >>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good > > >>> or bad? > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure > > >>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure > > >>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor > > >>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder > > >>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > >>> > > >>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use > > >>> a greater number of smaller vessels. > > >>> > > >>> Sean > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > > >>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? It's a long list !? ? What I need to do is make a check list > > >>> of things I have wrong ;-)? ? and? then "things I have wrong but can maybe > > >>> slide on"? !? ? One question, right of the bat,? with that O2 not being > > >>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere,? I'm not > > >>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume > > >>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are > > >>> already at one atm ? > > >>> > > >>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could > > >>> really get an idea of what I need !? ? For instance I know I need an > > >>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or > > >>> ABS. > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Great info Alan !? ? ? ? ? BTW? I need to pick your brain on some of the > > >>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> here is a link with some info. > > >>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > >>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will > > >>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > >>> Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Brian, > > >>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > >>> Now have a card with my face on it. > > >>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the > > >>> manager > > >>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. > > >>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > >>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 > > >>> card > > >>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to > > >>> provide it > > >>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. > > >>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the > > >>> card. > > >>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much > > >>> more expensive & intense. > > >>> Cheers Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Alan,? ? ? ? ? What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering > > >>> O2 ? > > >>> > > >>> Brian > > >>> > > >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > >>> org> > > >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > >>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > >>> > > >>> Steve, > > >>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > >>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) > > >>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. > > >>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > >>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > >>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > >>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > >>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > >>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > >>> dive shop > > >>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you > > >>> were > > >>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings > > >>> or > > >>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical > > >>> & dive > > >>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) > > >>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't > > >>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require > > >>> some > > >>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > >>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, > > >>> but > > >>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > >>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > >>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up > > >>> via > > >>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low > > >>> pressure > > >>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average > > >>> of > > >>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the > > >>> range of > > >>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest > > >>> 2 differ > > >>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is > > >>> only > > >>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one > > >>> person sub > > >>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. > > >>> Cheers Alan > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Sent from my iPad > > >>> > > >>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly.? Sorry to > > >>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > >>> > > >>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy.? After some investigation it seems > > >>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My > > >>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade > > >>> 02.? As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap > > >>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good > > >>> about not having contamination. > > >>> > > >>> I am wondering how others are managing. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Steve > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > >>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 15:12:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 09:12:41 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 5/01/2018, at 8:14 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Understood. However this isn't a "scuba tank" it is a "medical 02 tank". In my mind I wanted to make that comparison but I don't know this tank's thickness. > > I am also thinking that as long as the internal pressure is greater than the external pressure it is "self compensated". That makes the scenario of concern only when this 2200 psi tank goes below say 200 psi (empty). I was just thinking best practice is to understand when it could fail. > > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E2THPSO?ref_=pe_1811570_136791410_E_Asin_Title > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Steve, >> I wouldn't worry at all about external pressure on an alluminium >> scuba tank. They are about 1/2" thick. >> https://www.westenddivers.info/theblog/2017/10/28/tanks-padtj >> There is a cut-away in this article & the guy also says they are about >> 1/2" wall thickness. It could probably take as much externally as internally. >> If I was guessing I would say it could go to 10,000 ft or more. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 5/01/2018, at 3:36 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend my designs with data. >>> >>> Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Steve >>> >>> ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 hours in my >>>> psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally in the >>>> hands of my life support system that was on full automatic control >>>> throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The oxygen I used was >>>> commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets swapped >>>> out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip that connects >>>> from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to a Swagelok connection >>>> on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that connects four externally >>>> mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP >>>> (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" >>>> high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP Oxygen >>>> passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC is an acronym >>>> for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All life support sensors >>>> are installed in the AMOC module. These include the O2 pressure, O2 and CO2 >>>> concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin temperature and O2 >>>> flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to measure >>>> the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so that the >>>> programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and the pilot in >>>> manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to maintain the O2 and CO2 >>>> levels within acceptable limits. Because the PLC has data logging, after >>>> returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study the life >>>> support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the life >>>> support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for maintenance to >>>> pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord for the >>>> electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and fire up the system >>>> on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had six >>>> different volunteers over a one year period with different metabolisms and >>>> with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat for over 50 >>>> hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me tune the >>>> PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the system was >>>> working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I could stay confined >>>> in my boat for 80 hours and survive. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using ladder >>>>> logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now with programmable >>>>> automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board >>>>> field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU running a >>>>> deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National Instruments >>>>> CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely versatile, although >>>>> considerably more expensive than a PLC. The FPGA, main real-time OS >>>>> program, and any PC / remote interface programs are all programmed with the >>>>> same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is unfortunately >>>>> not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been developing for >>>>> these for twenty years. >>>>> >>>>> As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a useful >>>>> recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent research / usage. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Sean, >>>>> good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. >>>>> the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule fits all >>>>> submarines. >>>>> In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a large >>>>> deisel electric >>>>> ( like Carsten's). The chances of you emptying the contents of your O2 tank >>>>> & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. >>>>> BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. >>>>> http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm >>>>> I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is that good >>>>> or bad? >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single pressure >>>>> vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the internal cabin pressure >>>>> more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric pressure, nor >>>>> raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an oxygen cylinder >>>>> does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. >>>>> >>>>> So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, provided you use >>>>> a greater number of smaller vessels. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check list >>>>> of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can maybe >>>>> slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being >>>>> able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not >>>>> understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to release a volume >>>>> of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm if your are >>>>> already at one atm ? >>>>> >>>>> I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and you could >>>>> really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an >>>>> additional ballast tank HP cylinder. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar with GL & or >>>>> ABS. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of the >>>>> Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> here is a link with some info. >>>>> https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider >>>>> The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as they will >>>>> probably run a course if they have a few interested people. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. >>>>> Now have a card with my face on it. >>>>> I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well with the >>>>> manager >>>>> & this is what he was happy with me doing before he would fill O2. >>>>> This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. >>>>> I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my Padi O2 >>>>> card >>>>> they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying O2 so are able to >>>>> provide it >>>>> in a diving emergency, so thats an advantage to divers. >>>>> Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if you have the >>>>> card. >>>>> The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course which is much >>>>> more expensive & intense. >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for administering >>>>> O2 ? >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical >>>>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 >>>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. >>>>> I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for redundancy) >>>>> I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks filled at a dive shop. >>>>> Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. >>>>> I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. >>>>> O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) >>>>> http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- >>>>> STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm >>>>> You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. >>>>> dive shop >>>>> or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible regulator . If you >>>>> were >>>>> heading across country for a few dives maybe have interchangeable fittings >>>>> or >>>>> spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch between medical >>>>> & dive >>>>> suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) >>>>> I have heard people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people don't >>>>> like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also may require >>>>> some >>>>> sort of certificate from you before they fill. >>>>> Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than medical O2, >>>>> but >>>>> this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. >>>>> Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. >>>>> I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are topping up >>>>> via >>>>> 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on the low >>>>> pressure >>>>> O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with the average >>>>> of >>>>> the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me when the >>>>> range of >>>>> one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 or the reading of the nearest >>>>> 2 differ >>>>> by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a sensor is >>>>> only >>>>> a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a small one >>>>> person sub >>>>> I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % can change a lot more quickly. >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. Sorry to >>>>> again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. >>>>> >>>>> I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation it seems >>>>> I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external mounting. My >>>>> plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. medical grade >>>>> 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the filler to swap >>>>> tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me feel good >>>>> about not having contamination. >>>>> >>>>> I am wondering how others are managing. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Steve >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >>>>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ >>>>> listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>>>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 16:02:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 16:02:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7XvaWjekkWh63JuMZP1cQGqUROxANyNfGbKGVvyC00tqPgOTwH4v0zW8aZvF0BKS-vCdhviEv2rpoyqr5lXfqquHaiZY3YXm-_h2kFhAK_0=@protonmail.com> Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 4, 2018, 13:12, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 16:21:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:21:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <20180104192610.0UI00.185717.root@cdptpa-web16> References: <20180104192610.0UI00.185717.root@cdptpa-web16> Message-ID: <1b2d01d385a2$09f16ed0$1dd44c70$@gmail.com> Steve, Oxy or air cylinders will take most of what you can throw at them if they are metal. The issues are if they are composite with metal or plastic liners. You should be able to get a drawing of them from the manufacturer that shows it's certification. They are readily available. IN NZ we can get this from the Department of dangerous goods or the agent. Trying to estimate via hank's method is too rough if you are wanting calcs to support any certification. There are generally lots of excess material in the neck and bottom areas which would show a thicker than actual shell. You also need the material yield which would be on the drawing. You won't have any issues at 180 psi external pressure. Remember that Nuytco use these dive cylinders down to 2000 ft. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 5 January 2018 8:26 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical Yes that is the scenario. I also agree with your evaluation. I will try the unsupported cylinder calc. if I get the tank thickness. Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Steve ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, to me this failure mode is only possible with an empty O2 > cylinder at max design depth. My experience is that the O2 tank pressures remains > high almost all the time as typically dive durations are small. So what > you are really asking is if you got stuck on the bottom for 72 hours > at your maximum design depth would the aluminum cylinders collapse due > to out of roundness as you pulled the O2 pressure down to a pressure > below ambient. To me this scenario has a very low probability of > occurring. To answer your question, no I did not do the calc. Would > be easy to take the ABS hull spreadsheet and do the calc as an unsupported cylinder. > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 8:36 AM, Steve McQueen via > Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cliff, I bought an M60 aluminum O2 tank for external mounting (this > > was my "perfect" size but couldn't find in steel). However I am > > thinking about returning it because I have no "math" yet to support > > it can withstand say 180psi of external pressure (I do not know the > > wall thickness (yet, asked and am waiting, probably won't get)and the bottom is not rounded etc.). > > Probably being over concerned here but wanted to be able to defend > > my designs with data. > > > > Did you have enough data on your aluminum tanks to do calculations? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> wrote: > > > This summer, 5 miles offshore of Islamorada Florida, I spend 5 > > > hours in > > my > > > psub with the hatch closed the entire time. My life was totally > > > in the hands of my life support system that was on full automatic > > > control throughout the dive. The system worked flawlessly. The > > > oxygen I used > > was > > > commercial welding oxygen I transferred from a cylinder that gets > > > swapped out every time I take it into the supplier. I use a whip > > > that connects from the HP port of a standard welding regulator to > > > a Swagelok connection on an external 1/4" SS tubing manifold that > > > connects four externally mounted aluminum medical grade cylinders > > > (2 D size and 2 E size). The HP > > > (2,000 psig) oxygen comes through the pressure hull and then has a 1/4" > > > high pressure Swagelok valve for isolation. From there the HP > > > Oxygen passing directly into small box I call the AMOC unit. AMOC > > > is an acronym for Atmospheric Monitoring and Oxygen Control. All > > > life support sensors are installed in the AMOC module. These > > > include the O2 pressure, O2 and > > CO2 > > > concentrations, relative humidly, cabin pressure, cabin > > > temperature and > > O2 > > > flow rate in SLPM. The purpose of the O2 and CO2 sensors are to > > > measure the partial pressure of oxygen and of carbon dioxide so > > > that the programmable logic controller (PLC) in automatic mode and > > > the pilot in manual mode can make the adjustments necessary to > > > maintain the O2 and CO2 levels within acceptable limits. Because > > > the PLC has data logging, > > after > > > returning from the Islamorada dive I was able to go back and study > > > the > > life > > > support system as well as all the other systems. Having all the > > > life support systems sensors in a single module makes it easy for > > > maintenance > > to > > > pull the AMOC box out of the R300 and install an extension cord > > > for the electrical signals between the AMOC unit and PLC box and > > > fire up the > > system > > > on the bench. To confirm the life support system was working, I had > > six > > > different volunteers over a one year period with different > > > metabolisms > > and > > > with body weights from 90 lbs to 240 lbs closed up in the boat > > > for over > > 50 > > > hours with full data logging to test the system. This enabled me > > > tune > > the > > > PID controller for O2 makeup and give me confidence that the > > > system was working. It would not be fun but I am 100% confident I > > > could stay > > confined > > > in my boat for 80 hours and survive. > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > > Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Although I have worked with some Allen-Bradley type PLCs using > > > > ladder logic in the distant past, I work almost exclusively now > > > > with > > programmable > > > > automation controllers (PACs), which incorporate on-board > > > > field-programmable gate arrays (FPGA) on the same die as a CPU > > > > running > > a > > > > deterministic real-time operating system (e.g. National > > > > Instruments CompactRIO platform). These units are extremely > > > > versatile, although considerably more expensive than a PLC. The > > > > FPGA, main real-time OS program, and any PC / remote interface > > > > programs are all programmed > > with the > > > > same software suite, which while accessable to beginners, is > > unfortunately > > > > not a "master it in a weekend" type of deal - I have been > > > > developing > > for > > > > these for twenty years. > > > > > > > > As for PLCs, I have been uninvolved for too long to give a > > > > useful recommendation. Defer to someone who has done more recent > > > > research / > > usage. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 19:38, Alan > > > > via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Sean, > > > > good stuff, I feel more confident about using commercial O2 now. > > > > the ABS 23.5 % is quite restrictive. The problem is one rule > > > > fits all submarines. > > > > In a psub there is less that's likely to cause a fire than in a > > > > large deisel electric ( like Carsten's). The chances of you > > > > emptying the contents of your O2 > > tank > > > > & starting a fire at the same time are pretty slim. > > > > BTW have you come across the EZautomation Ezrack plc at all. > > > > http://www.ezautomation.net/ezrackplc/ezrackplc.htm > > > > I am looking seriously at it. It says it is fully American! Is > > > > that > > good > > > > or bad? > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 2:58 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > > > > Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Per ABS, the inadvertent release of the contents of any single > > > > pressure vessel, if stored internally, must not raise the > > > > internal cabin > > pressure > > > > more than 1 atm (101.325 kPa) above the normal atmospheric > > > > pressure, > > nor > > > > raise the cabin air oxygen concentration above 23.5%. If an > > > > oxygen > > cylinder > > > > does not meet these requirements, it must be stored externally. > > > > > > > > So, you can get away with storing any amount internally, > > > > provided you > > use > > > > a greater number of smaller vessels. > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 3, 2018, 18:15, Brian > > > > Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan, It's a long list ! What I need to do is make a check > > list > > > > of things I have wrong ;-) and then "things I have wrong but can > > maybe > > > > slide on" ! One question, right of the bat, with that O2 not being > > > > able to fill the cabin space more than one atmosphere, I'm not > > > > understanding the terminology , how can it be possible to > > > > release a > > volume > > > > of air from a bottle WITHOUT raising the pressure above one atm > > > > if > > your are > > > > already at one atm ? > > > > > > > > I should go around my sub with a video camera inside and out and > > > > you > > could > > > > really get an idea of what I need ! For instance I know I need an > > > > additional ballast tank HP cylinder. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:52:57 +1300 > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > fire away; there are a few people on psubs that are familiar > > > > with GL & > > or > > > > ABS. > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:37 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Great info Alan ! BTW I need to pick your brain on some of > > the > > > > Lloyd's or ABS regs or equivalent. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 13:22:59 +1300 > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > here is a link with some info. > > > > https://www.padi.com/padi-courses/emergency-oxygen-provider > > > > The best way about it is to enquire at your local dive shop as > > > > they > > will > > > > probably run a course if they have a few interested people. > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 1:04 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > I did an Emergency O2 providers course at a dive shop that sold O2. > > > > Now have a card with my face on it. > > > > I don't know if there are any regulations, but I get on well > > > > with the manager & this is what he was happy with me doing > > > > before he would fill O2. > > > > This was the easiest option, cheap & Only a couple of nights. > > > > I think if I went to any dive shop in the World & pulled out my > > > > Padi O2 card they would be happy to fill. Also we are carrying > > > > O2 so are able to provide it in a diving emergency, so thats an > > > > advantage to divers. > > > > Medical O2 providers may also be convinced to fill for you if > > > > you have > > the > > > > card. > > > > The other option for me was to do a mixed gas diving course > > > > which is > > much > > > > more expensive & intense. > > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 12:16 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Alan, What's involved with getting a O2 cert for > > administering > > > > O2 ? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > > > > > > > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > > > > org> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 11:21:46 +1300 > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > not the most experienced but this is what I'm doing. > > > > I have 2 steel O2 cleaned tanks. ( 2 tanks as per GL for > > > > redundancy) I have O2 cleaned scuba regulators & get my tanks > > > > filled at a dive > > shop. > > > > Had to have an emergency O2 provider cert first. > > > > I believe Nuytco were using composite tanks at one stage. > > > > O2 tank options & fitting options here. (EMT medical) > > > > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-CYLINDERS-ALUMINUM- > > > > STEEL-COMPOSITE_c64.htm > > > > You will need a tank fitting suitable for where you intend filling i.e. > > > > dive shop > > > > or medical O2 supplier. Then you will need a compatible > > > > regulator . If > > you > > > > were > > > > heading across country for a few dives maybe have > > > > interchangeable > > fittings > > > > or > > > > spare tanks with different fittings if you need to switch > > > > between > > medical > > > > & dive > > > > suppliers. ( I haven't heard this discussed before) I have heard > > > > people say that medical & commercial O2 tank swap people > > don't > > > > like the idea of their tanks going under the water. They also > > > > may > > require > > > > some > > > > sort of certificate from you before they fill. > > > > Have read of deaths from people using commercial rather than > > > > medical > > O2, > > > > but > > > > this would be 100% O2 inhaled straight in to the lungs. > > > > Phil offered to sell his O2 add system to Psubbers. > > > > I am using a paediatric flow meter set at a minimal flow & are > > > > topping > > up > > > > via > > > > 3 x O2 sensors wired to my PLC & operating a solenoid valve on > > > > the low pressure > > > > O2 line. The PLC will be comparing the 3 readings & going with > > > > the > > average > > > > of > > > > the 2 readings closest to each other. The PLC will notify me > > > > when the range of one O2 sensor is out relative to the other 2 > > > > or the reading of the > > nearest > > > > 2 differ > > > > by a certain amount & may need replacing. I think the life of a > > > > sensor > > is > > > > only > > > > a year or so depending on the heat it is stored at. Being a > > > > small one person sub I need to be a lot more careful as the O2 % > > > > can change a lot more > > quickly. > > > > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > On 4/01/2018, at 7:10 AM, Steve McQueen via > > > > Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > I tried to search the archives but it wasn't very friendly. > > > > Sorry to again ask about something I know has probably been discussed. > > > > > > > > I wanted to double ck. my O2 strategy. After some investigation > > > > it > > seems > > > > I will buy a new steel high pressure oxygen tank for external > > mounting. My > > > > plan is to have it refilled with "commercial grade" O2 vs. > > > > medical > > grade > > > > 02. As long as I keep my "personal" tank and not allow the > > > > filler to > > swap > > > > tanks I should create a "chain of custody" that will help me > > > > feel good about not having contamination. > > > > > > > > I am wondering how others are managing. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ > > > > listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > > > > s% > > 40psubs.org> > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 16:34:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 16:34:05 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I'm afraid that this is a dangerous misconception. Internal and external pressure are very different load cases. The reason you are seeing similar results is that you are: 1) evaluating a strongly isotropic material, 2) evaluating using a thin wall assumption whereby it is assumed that the net stress in the cylinder wall is evenly distributed throughout the cross-sectional area of the wall, 3) evaluating a material which exhibits effectively identical compressive and tensile material yield strengths, and 4) ignoring buckling failure modes, or acknowledging them to be secondary to a dominating material strength failure. So, the results CAN be similar for internal and external pressure, but only under specific circumstances. It is dangerous to consider this to be a rule of thumb. As a general rule, internal pressure capacity is greater than external due to buckling failure modes. Any material defects or deformation from applied loading only complicates the situation, as with internal pressure, any out-of-round deformation is self-limiting, whereas in the external pressure case such deformation will serve as a buckle initiation site which will propagate unchecked. That said, I think that collapsing an aluminum gas cylinder with external pressure is unlikely at PSub depths, although I might be inclined to select shorter, stubbier cylinders if that is a worry, to ensure that buckling will not dominate (or at least, if it is dominant it is so at much higher pressure than the intended service pressure) as could be the case with a long, slender cylinder. Regarding flat bottoms, gas cylinders are typically extruded using a die, and the internal shape of the cylinder bottom is actually a 2:1 semi-ellipse, or at minimum, generously filleted. Extra material is added in design / to the minimum head thickness to accommodate standing the cylinder upright, creating the flat bottom. Evaluating the cylinder as an unreinforced cylinder subject to external pressure, with hemispherical or semi-elliptical end caps as appropriate, seems to me to be a reasonable approach. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 4, 2018, 13:12, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. Cheers Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 16:43:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 16:43:06 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180104214306.IMNK2.187764.root@cdptpa-web16> All, I was able to find data regarding the minimum design criteria of the aluminum medical O2 cylinder I purchased without relying on the vendors response. The secret was noting that they advertise they where made to DOT-3AL and for our Canadian friends CT-3ALM specs. Google these and you get all the details about the minimum structural design specifications. These should be helpful to us as references (when applicable). With this I can feel I understand the "numbers" and run some calculations for my personal experience even if the real concern/risk is minimal for my application. Thanks, Steve ---- "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: > Alan, I'm afraid that this is a dangerous misconception. Internal and external pressure are very different load cases. The reason you are seeing similar results is that you are: 1) evaluating a strongly isotropic material, 2) evaluating using a thin wall assumption whereby it is assumed that the net stress in the cylinder wall is evenly distributed throughout the cross-sectional area of the wall, 3) evaluating a material which exhibits effectively identical compressive and tensile material yield strengths, and 4) ignoring buckling failure modes, or acknowledging them to be secondary to a dominating material strength failure. So, the results CAN be similar for internal and external pressure, but only under specific circumstances. It is dangerous to consider this to be a rule of thumb. As a general rule, internal pressure capacity is greater than external due to buckling failure modes. Any material defects or deformation from applied loading only complicates the situation, as with internal pressure, any out-of-round deformation is self-limiting, whereas in the external pressure case such deformation will serve as a buckle initiation site which will propagate unchecked. That said, I think that collapsing an aluminum gas cylinder with external pressure is unlikely at PSub depths, although I might be inclined to select shorter, stubbier cylinders if that is a worry, to ensure that buckling will not dominate (or at least, if it is dominant it is so at much higher pressure than the intended service pressure) as could be the case with a long, slender cylinder. Regarding flat bottoms, gas cylinders are typically extruded using a die, and the internal shape of the cylinder bottom is actually a 2:1 semi-ellipse, or at minimum, generously filleted. Extra material is added in design / to the minimum head thickness to accommodate standing the cylinder upright, creating the flat bottom. Evaluating the cylinder as an unreinforced cylinder subject to external pressure, with hemispherical or semi-elliptical end caps as appropriate, seems to me to be a reasonable approach. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 4, 2018, 13:12, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. Cheers Alan From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 18:41:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 12:41:01 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Sean, guilty as charged. Although I did run similar cylinder dimensions to the tank sighted but guessing on the thickness. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 5/01/2018, at 10:34 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I'm afraid that this is a dangerous misconception. Internal and external pressure are very different load cases. The reason you are seeing similar results is that you are: > > 1) evaluating a strongly isotropic material, > 2) evaluating using a thin wall assumption whereby it is assumed that the net stress in the cylinder wall is evenly distributed throughout the cross-sectional area of the wall, > 3) evaluating a material which exhibits effectively identical compressive and tensile material yield strengths, and > 4) ignoring buckling failure modes, or acknowledging them to be secondary to a dominating material strength failure. > > So, the results CAN be similar for internal and external pressure, but only under specific circumstances. It is dangerous to consider this to be a rule of thumb. As a general rule, internal pressure capacity is greater than external due to buckling failure modes. > > Any material defects or deformation from applied loading only complicates the situation, as with internal pressure, any out-of-round deformation is self-limiting, whereas in the external pressure case such deformation will serve as a buckle initiation site which will propagate unchecked. > > That said, I think that collapsing an aluminum gas cylinder with external pressure is unlikely at PSub depths, although I might be inclined to select shorter, stubbier cylinders if that is a worry, to ensure that buckling will not dominate (or at least, if it is dominant it is so at much higher pressure than the intended service pressure) as could be the case with a long, slender cylinder. Regarding flat bottoms, gas cylinders are typically extruded using a die, and the internal shape of the cylinder bottom is actually a 2:1 semi-ellipse, or at minimum, generously filleted. Extra material is added in design / to the minimum head thickness to accommodate standing the cylinder upright, creating the flat bottom. Evaluating the cylinder as an unreinforced cylinder subject to external pressure, with hemispherical or semi-elliptical end caps as appropriate, seems to me to be a reasonable approach. > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 4, 2018, 13:12, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. > > Cheers Alan > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 4 19:06:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:06:46 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Commercial Grade O2 vs. Medical In-Reply-To: References: <20180104191408.VP5LJ.185538.root@cdptpa-web16> <0B879C25-59F8-466A-9A6E-3E358F31F77E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I probably should have mentioned that, irrespective of the other points, a vessel subject to external pressure will always experience greater forces in the vessel wall than it would with an identical pressure acting internally, because the external pressure acts on the greater area. F = P*A and all that... Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 4, 2018, 16:41, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Thanks Sean, > guilty as charged. Although I did run similar cylinder dimensions to the > tank sighted but guessing on the thickness. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 5/01/2018, at 10:34 AM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I'm afraid that this is a dangerous misconception. Internal and external pressure are very different load cases. The reason you are seeing similar results is that you are: >> >> 1) evaluating a strongly isotropic material, >> 2) evaluating using a thin wall assumption whereby it is assumed that the net stress in the cylinder wall is evenly distributed throughout the cross-sectional area of the wall, >> 3) evaluating a material which exhibits effectively identical compressive and tensile material yield strengths, and >> 4) ignoring buckling failure modes, or acknowledging them to be secondary to a dominating material strength failure. >> >> So, the results CAN be similar for internal and external pressure, but only under specific circumstances. It is dangerous to consider this to be a rule of thumb. As a general rule, internal pressure capacity is greater than external due to buckling failure modes. >> >> Any material defects or deformation from applied loading only complicates the situation, as with internal pressure, any out-of-round deformation is self-limiting, whereas in the external pressure case such deformation will serve as a buckle initiation site which will propagate unchecked. >> >> That said, I think that collapsing an aluminum gas cylinder with external pressure is unlikely at PSub depths, although I might be inclined to select shorter, stubbier cylinders if that is a worry, to ensure that buckling will not dominate (or at least, if it is dominant it is so at much higher pressure than the intended service pressure) as could be the case with a long, slender cylinder. Regarding flat bottoms, gas cylinders are typically extruded using a die, and the internal shape of the cylinder bottom is actually a 2:1 semi-ellipse, or at minimum, generously filleted. Extra material is added in design / to the minimum head thickness to accommodate standing the cylinder upright, creating the flat bottom. Evaluating the cylinder as an unreinforced cylinder subject to external pressure, with hemispherical or semi-elliptical end caps as appropriate, seems to me to be a reasonable approach. >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> >> On Jan 4, 2018, 13:12, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Steve, I just ran a couple of scenarios on tubes with differing aluminium grades in the free "under pressure" program. The results were exactly the same for internal pressure as external pressure. So if your medical tank is safe for 2000 psi internal it will be safe for 2000 psi external. plus there is probably at least a 100% safety margin so more likely it will crush at 4000psi or 8000ft. Perhaps Sean could confirm that with aluminium it is at least as strong under external pressure as it is under internal, then you won't need to do any calculations. >> >> Cheers Alan >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles @psubs.org> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 5 13:33:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:33:41 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mark Trezza's K350 Seahorse in the news Message-ID: <1140617762.7720.1515177221431@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Is Mark on psubs? K350 donated(?) to Tulsa Air and Space Museum: http://ktul.com/news/local/a-yellow-submarine-becomes-a-stem-learning-tool Not sure if it's donated or on loan. Very generous of him. Cheers, Ian. From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 11:23:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:23:03 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. * * Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? Steve * * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 11:40:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 10:40:02 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <201801061639.w06GdUmD007952@whoweb.com> Steve, I got my certification from TDI for oxygen preocedures. I would highly reccomend to take the class. I believe it cost about $100 or so. We do all of our cleaning on site for Pisces as well. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/6/18 10:23 AM (GMT-06:00) To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator.?However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean.I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway.???????? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard.???????? ????????? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share?Steve????????? ?????????? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard.? I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway.???????? ?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 11:58:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Daniel Lance via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:58:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve, I would highly recommend going to www.airspeedpress.com and order a copy of Vance Harlow's book " The Oxygen Hackers Companion " 160 pages $35.00 . Dan Lance On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 11:59:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 17:59:51 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <201801061639.w06GdUmD007952@whoweb.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> <201801061639.w06GdUmD007952@whoweb.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve, the oxygen hacker's companion is a good resource too. regards Antoine Garanti sans virus. www.avg.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > > I got my certification from TDI for oxygen preocedures. I would highly > reccomend to take the class. I believe it cost about $100 or so. We do all > of our cleaning on site for Pisces as well. > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > > Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Date: 1/6/18 10:23 AM (GMT-06:00) > To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 12:34:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Private via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 12:34:07 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <713EF552-CAE0-4F7F-8F81-BB936264EB5D@gmail.com> Steve, d'you have the oxygen hackers companion? The book is invaluable for what you're doing and includes a cleaning process. Best, Alec > On Jan 6, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > ? > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > Steve > > ? > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > ? > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 13:08:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 13:08:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <713EF552-CAE0-4F7F-8F81-BB936264EB5D@gmail.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> <713EF552-CAE0-4F7F-8F81-BB936264EB5D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401d38719$55d04100$0170c300$@indy.rr.com> OK. No more questions from me until I read the Oxygen Hacker?s Companion : ) From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Private via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:34 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Steve, d'you have the oxygen hackers companion? The book is invaluable for what you're doing and includes a cleaning process. Best, Alec On Jan 6, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. * * Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? Steve * * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 13:45:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (roberto alvarez via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 19:45:50 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <001401d38719$55d04100$0170c300$@indy.rr.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> <713EF552-CAE0-4F7F-8F81-BB936264EB5D@gmail.com> <001401d38719$55d04100$0170c300$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: I clean my scuba tanks and regullators with simple green before use with oxigen on deco bottles. 2018-01-06 19:08 GMT+01:00 Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > OK. No more questions from me until I read the Oxygen Hacker?s Companion : > ) > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Private via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:34 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > > > Steve, d'you have the oxygen hackers companion? The book is invaluable for > what you're doing and includes a cleaning process. > > > > Best, > > Alec > > > On Jan 6, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 13:58:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> References: <005301d3870a$a200cae0$e60260a0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > ? > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > Steve > > ? > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 14:56:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:56:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 15:05:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 12:05:54 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180106120554.C8ACAC8C@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 19:14:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 13:14:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, have a look at this outfit. EMT mecical company. http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm They are based in Washington State & I have bought from them & found them reliable. Have a look through the rest of their stock, they have a lot of O2 fittings etc. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/01/2018, at 8:56 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 19:56:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 13:56:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6F3BFA6B-2587-46F5-90C6-285C9A0F4526@yahoo.com> Found this excerpt from the "Oxygen Hackers Handbook". Talks about cleaning & also of interest ownership of your tank. If you buy one & then exchange it them company may think it is there's. http://www.airspeedpress.com/oxyread.html Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/01/2018, at 1:14 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, > have a look at this outfit. EMT mecical company. > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm > They are based in Washington State & I have bought from them & found them > reliable. Have a look through the rest of their stock, they have a lot of O2 fittings etc. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 7/01/2018, at 8:56 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 21:23:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 18:23:14 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180106182314.C8ACD190@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 21:39:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 18:39:58 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180106183958.C8ACD1E5@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 22:53:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 16:53:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180106183958.C8ACD1E5@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180106183958.C8ACD1E5@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, not familiar with them. Mr Google knows everything! I bought steel tanks with scuba fittings mainly because everything is designed to go in salt water & I know I can get them filled 7 days a week. I need to look at all this again for this build. I will look at how I can interchange between medical fittings & dive fittings in case I am holidaying with the sub & need to fill where they only have industrial gas. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/01/2018, at 3:39 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Which is more common the CGA 870 or the CGA 540 ? Is one a yoke style and the other a flare type fitting? > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 13:14:59 +1300 > > Brian, > have a look at this outfit. EMT mecical company. > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm > They are based in Washington State & I have bought from them & found them > reliable. Have a look through the rest of their stock, they have a lot of O2 fittings etc. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/01/2018, at 8:56 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 22:54:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 16:54:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180106183958.C8ACD1E5@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180106183958.C8ACD1E5@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2A1C36BB-100C-4708-905D-98234CAFFFE2@yahoo.com> Brian, in case you missed it, they are on this page of the EMT site. http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-REGULATORS-FITTINGS_c63.htm Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/01/2018, at 3:39 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Which is more common the CGA 870 or the CGA 540 ? Is one a yoke style and the other a flare type fitting? > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 13:14:59 +1300 > > Brian, > have a look at this outfit. EMT mecical company. > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm > They are based in Washington State & I have bought from them & found them > reliable. Have a look through the rest of their stock, they have a lot of O2 fittings etc. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/01/2018, at 8:56 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 6 23:33:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 20:33:35 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180106203335.C8ACD2C0@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 00:32:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 18:32:09 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180106203335.C8ACD2C0@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180106203335.C8ACD2C0@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, the submarine grade that molecular products sell are all over 2mm. http://www.molecularproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Sofnolime-D-L-S-TDS-v9.pdf You could contact them for advice. It may boil down to both what you can get locally & what is suitable for your system. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/01/2018, at 5:33 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The Sofnolime CD grade is 2mm to 5mm in size. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 18:23:14 -0800 > > Hey , My scrubber screen is slightly larger than 1 mm holes ( ss pasta strainer), I was looking at the scrubber medium and it says that it's 1 - 2.5 mm granules, is it possible to get larger granules ? Like no smaller than 2 mm ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 13:14:59 +1300 > > Brian, > have a look at this outfit. EMT mecical company. > http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm > They are based in Washington State & I have bought from them & found them > reliable. Have a look through the rest of their stock, they have a lot of O2 fittings etc. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 7/01/2018, at 8:56 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 15:21:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . Cliff On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 16:19:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 10:19:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <37DC3198-78CE-4B01-9F7A-201838B79A50@yahoo.com> Brian, Cliff, in my O2 system I am planning to have low pressure O2 coming through the hull with first a stop valve ( needle valve) Then a manual bypass valve ( needle valve) followed by a rebreather style solenoid valve & finally a click style paediatric regulator. So the paediatric regulator will be set just below normal consumption with an automatic top up from my solenoid valve based on readings from O2 sensors. The bypass valve is to manually bleed in O2 if the regulator & solenoid valve fail. Brian could get away with just the stop valve, the bypass valve & the paediatric regulator seeing he has a larger hull than we do. He could just manually adjust the regulator off O2 readings. Cliff, does that flow valve click on & off all the time or is it quiet in operation. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/01/2018, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > >> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 17:34:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 16:34:54 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <37DC3198-78CE-4B01-9F7A-201838B79A50@yahoo.com> References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> <37DC3198-78CE-4B01-9F7A-201838B79A50@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Quite. On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Brian, Cliff, > in my O2 system I am planning to have low pressure O2 coming through the > hull with first a stop valve ( needle valve) Then a manual bypass valve ( > needle valve) followed > by a rebreather style solenoid valve & finally a click style paediatric > regulator. > So the paediatric regulator will be set just below normal consumption with > an automatic > top up from my solenoid valve based on readings from O2 sensors. The > bypass valve is > to manually bleed in O2 if the regulator & solenoid valve fail. > Brian could get away with just the stop valve, the bypass valve & the > paediatric > regulator seeing he has a larger hull than we do. He could just manually > adjust the > regulator off O2 readings. > Cliff, does that flow valve click on & off all the time or is it quiet in > operation. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 8/01/2018, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions >> asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up >> with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components >> but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things >> easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system >> on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does >> anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a >> little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a >> non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a >> freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch >> of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free >> cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water >> should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, >> or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any >> contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft >> parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my >> K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First >> Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS >> tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to >> create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods >> and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to >> share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods >> and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short >> but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 18:03:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 12:03:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: References: <20180106115630.C8ACACC7@m0117457.ppops.net> <37DC3198-78CE-4B01-9F7A-201838B79A50@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <634979D1-0182-4F7A-BE2E-A97CE0842B85@yahoo.com> Cliff, that looks good, you've got me interested in it. I am thinking it might suite me to have a paediatric click regulator as well, as if their was an electronics fault it would be easier to control the flow by just upping the click regulator output. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/01/2018, at 11:34 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Quite. > > >> On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Brian, Cliff, >> in my O2 system I am planning to have low pressure O2 coming through the hull with first a stop valve ( needle valve) Then a manual bypass valve ( needle valve) followed >> by a rebreather style solenoid valve & finally a click style paediatric regulator. >> So the paediatric regulator will be set just below normal consumption with an automatic >> top up from my solenoid valve based on readings from O2 sensors. The bypass valve is >> to manually bleed in O2 if the regulator & solenoid valve fail. >> Brian could get away with just the stop valve, the bypass valve & the paediatric >> regulator seeing he has a larger hull than we do. He could just manually adjust the >> regulator off O2 readings. >> Cliff, does that flow valve click on & off all the time or is it quiet in operation. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 8/01/2018, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >>>> >>>> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. >>>> >>>> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >>>> >>>> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 18:20:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 15:20:18 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180107152018.C8AE6E7D@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 7 20:24:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 20:24:28 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have lots of experience working with mass-flow controllers to do precision gas dilution for sensor calibration. The brand I've always used is ALICAT. A mass flow controller is a servo controlled needle valve and flow sensor, so you can set and forget flow rates. No noisy on-off switching. I've used them for nasty things like high concentration chlorine gas for tests that lasted for weeks at a time without any issue. They also do oxygen, but like any other oxygen system you need to keep it clean. One thing I've always been cautioned about is to avoid using an MFC to completely stop flow, and to always put a ball valve upstream and use it to "shut down" the system. I was never told what exactly goes wrong, but I didn't want to find out with the chlorine! River J Dolfi Rdolfi7 at gmail.com On Jan 7, 2018 6:20 PM, "via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 12:03:27 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <634979D1-0182-4F7A-BE2E-A97CE0842B85 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Cliff, that looks good, you've got me interested in it. I am thinking it might suite me to have a paediatric click regulator as well, as if their was an electronics fault it would be easier to control the flow by just upping the click regulator output. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/01/2018, at 11:34 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Quite. > > >> On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> Brian, Cliff, >> in my O2 system I am planning to have low pressure O2 coming through the hull with first a stop valve ( needle valve) Then a manual bypass valve ( needle valve) followed >> by a rebreather style solenoid valve & finally a click style paediatric regulator. >> So the paediatric regulator will be set just below normal consumption with an automatic >> top up from my solenoid valve based on readings from O2 sensors. The bypass valve is >> to manually bleed in O2 if the regulator & solenoid valve fail. >> Brian could get away with just the stop valve, the bypass valve & the paediatric >> regulator seeing he has a larger hull than we do. He could just manually adjust the >> regulator off O2 readings. >> Cliff, does that flow valve click on & off all the time or is it quiet in operation. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 8/01/2018, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow- Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g: BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely! in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/ literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_ B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG& linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540! 152 . >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >>>> >>>> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. >>>> >>>> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >>>> >>>> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 15:20:18 -0800 From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180107152018.C8AE6E7D at m0117460.ppops.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 33 ***************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 05:53:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 12:53:47 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <01e901d3886e$f6997ab0$e3cc7010$@liu.edu.lb> Hi guys, I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ on each motor. I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. Appreciate any help in this matter. Tarek -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rick, Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a potentiometer on a knob. I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's to be honest. I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. Works ok for me. The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. Got a couple of links here on my site. regards James This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm Main power panel. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > > I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? > Rick > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >> Super simple. >> >> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into one >> box with a cooling fan for good measure. >> >> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >> >> >> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > Hi James, >> > I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >> > On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single relay) >> > but they >> are >> > not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >> > reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >> > maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >> > Hank >> > >> > On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >> > search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >> > 24v pots of some sort. >> > >> > I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >> > had >> used. >> > >> > James >> > >> > On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> >> Hi James, >> >> What type of relays are you using? >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi rick, >> >> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip tide >> >> 80's >> at >> >> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of batteries >> >> in series with both pairs connected to the main terminals. I have >> >> a standard >> heavy >> >> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I used >> >> heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >> >> >> >> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >> >> seems >> fine. >> >> >> >> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >> >> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >> >> on/off >> relays. >> >> Much better. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> James >> >> >> >> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Alan >> >> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v batteries >> >> , 3 >> for >> >> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >> >> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >> >> thruster >> off >> >> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >> Minn-Kotas. >> >> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >> >> Minn-Kotas >> in >> >> his. >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Rick, >> >> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >> >> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >> >> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >> >> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >> parallel. >> >> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >> >> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >> >> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the power >> >>> comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and was >> >>> wondering if >> that >> >>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >> >>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >> >>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >> >>> they >> are >> >>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >> >>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >> >>> at a >> time >> >>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >> >>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >> >>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >> >>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >> >>> current. >> >>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank and >> though >> >>> I >> >>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >> >>> about a >> >>> 16.6 >> >>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >> >>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >> >>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >> >>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >> >>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >> >>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >> >>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >> >>> sufficient from battery source to bus >> bar >> >>> as >> >>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >> >>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >> >>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >> >>> amps I have on my boat? >> >>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >> >>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >> >>> time if can. >> >>> Comments appreciated. >> >>> Rick >> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> >>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >> >>> submersibles >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> >> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >> >> submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well done Ian. I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in Auckland. Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-makers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great! Glad they got there safely. > > Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. > > You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. > > Cheers! > Ian. > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > > Hi Ian, > The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no idea the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. I might have it put together today for a test. > Thank you again > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: irox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist drive motor yet ;-( ?Hank On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? Glad they got there safely. Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. Cheers! ?Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 **************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 06:03:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 11:03:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <01e901d3886e$f6997ab0$e3cc7010$@liu.edu.lb> References: <01e901d3886e$f6997ab0$e3cc7010$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: <673072558.2396869.1515409395700@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tarek,I would have to say that Minn Kota motors are the preferred choice. ?I am using 20 year old motors still with no problems. ?Hank On Monday, January 8, 2018, 3:52:52 AM MST, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi guys, I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ on each motor. I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. Appreciate any help in this matter. Tarek -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ??? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) ? 2. new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ? 3. Re: new gears (irox via Personal_Submersibles) ? 4. Re: new gears (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ? 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rick, Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse.? Its just a potentiometer on a knob. I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's.? Wish I had gone for the 101's to be honest. I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the seat, so I set the power and trundle off.? I tend to use the aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where it is.? Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. Works ok for me. The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable.? I didn't dare cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple on\off relays.? The pots were to complicated to move. Got a couple of links here on my site. regards James This was how I had it originally.? Was awkward to use side thrusters. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm Main power panel. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > James, > > I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? > Rick > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating.? Cant >> remember off hand.? But I don't have the reversing because I can >> rotate the side motors for reverse.? So I just have 1 relay per motor. >> Super simple. >> >> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >> which allows reverse and speed control.? All 3 items all fit into one >> box with a cooling fan for good measure. >> >> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >> >> >> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> > Hi James, >> > I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor.? >> > On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single relay)? >> > but they >> are >> > not continues duty, witch is okay.? I want to simplify by using >> > reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors.? I thought >> > maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >> > Hank >> > >> > On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> > Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hi Hank, >> > >> > I cant remember off the top of my head now.? I just had a quick >> > search and I cant find them.? They are just standard high current >> > 24v pots of some sort. >> > >> > I seem to remember they were similar to yours.? Or some that you >> > had >> used. >> > >> > James >> > >> > On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> > wrote: >> >> Hi James, >> >> What type of relays are you using? >> >> Hank >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >> >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi rick, >> >> I'm here.? What do you want to know?? I'm using minn Kota rip tide >> >> 80's >> at >> >> 24v.? 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of batteries >> >> in series with both pairs connected to the main terminals.? I have >> >> a standard >> heavy >> >> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together.? I used >> >> heavy tinned marine cable.? Can't remember the thickness. >> >> >> >> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >> >> seems >> fine. >> >> >> >> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >> >> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >> >> on/off >> relays. >> >> Much better. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> James >> >> >> >> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Alan >> >> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v batteries >> >> , 3 >> for >> >> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >> >> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >> >> thruster >> off >> >> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >> Minn-Kotas. >> >> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >> >> Minn-Kotas >> in >> >> his. >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Rick, >> >> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >> >> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >> >> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >> >> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >> parallel. >> >> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >> >> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >> >> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >> >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the power >> >>> comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and was >> >>> wondering if >> that >> >>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >> >>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >> >>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >> >>> they >> are >> >>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >> >>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >> >>> at a >> time >> >>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >> >>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >> >>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >> >>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >> >>> current. >> >>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank and >> though >> >>> I >> >>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >> >>> about a >> >>> 16.6 >> >>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >> >>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >> >>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >> >>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >> >>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >> >>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >> >>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >> >>> sufficient from battery source to bus >> bar >> >>> as >> >>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >> >>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >> >>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >> >>> amps I have on my boat? >> >>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >> >>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >> >>> time if can. >> >>> Comments appreciated. >> >>> Rick >> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> >>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >> >>> submersibles >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >> >> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >> >> submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: ??? <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ??? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well done Ian. I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in Auckland. Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-makers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great!? Glad they got there safely. > > Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. > > You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. > > Cheers! >? Ian. > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > > Hi Ian, > The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing!? I had no idea the fine detail capability.? The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection.? I might have it put together today for a test. > Thank you again > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles ??? To: irox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist drive motor yet ;-( ?Hank ? ? On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? Glad they got there safely. Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. Cheers! ?Ian. -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 **************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 11:08:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 14:11:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <01e901d3886e$f6997ab0$e3cc7010$@liu.edu.lb> References: <01e901d3886e$f6997ab0$e3cc7010$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6@yahoo.com> Tarek, I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using slightly modified octopus regulators. The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. Let me know if you need any more help. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guys, > I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble finding a > suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ on each motor. > I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I would > like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor > that can be filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. > > > > Appreciate any help in this matter. > > Tarek > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: new gears (irox via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: new gears (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi Rick, > > Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a potentiometer > on a knob. > > I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's to be > honest. > > I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the seat, > so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft thruster for > surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where it is. Then I use > the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. > > Works ok for me. > > The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut them > to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. > > To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple on\off > relays. The pots were to complicated to move. > > Got a couple of links here on my site. > regards > James > > This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm > > Main power panel. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm > > > > > > > > > On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> James, >> >> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>> Super simple. >>> >>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into one >>> box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>> >>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>> >>> >>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Hi James, >>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single relay) >>>> but they >>> are >>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Hank, >>>> >>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>> >>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>> had >>> used. >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi rick, >>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip tide >>>>> 80's >>> at >>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of batteries >>>>> in series with both pairs connected to the main terminals. I have >>>>> a standard >>> heavy >>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I used >>>>> heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>> >>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>> seems >>> fine. >>>>> >>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >>>>> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >>>>> on/off >>> relays. >>>>> Much better. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v batteries >>>>> , 3 >>> for >>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>> thruster >>> off >>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>> Minn-Kotas >>> in >>>>> his. >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rick, >>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >>>>> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >>>>> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >>> parallel. >>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the power >>>>>> comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and was >>>>>> wondering if >>> that >>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>> they >>> are >>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>> at a >>> time >>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>> current. >>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank and >>> though >>>>>> I >>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>> about a >>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >>>>>> sufficient from battery source to bus >>> bar >>>>>> as >>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >>>>>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >>>>>> amps I have on my boat? >>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >>>>>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >>>>>> time if can. >>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>> submersibles >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>> submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no > idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just > finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I > might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: irox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: > <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 99442919/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well done Ian. > I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in > Auckland. > Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! > > http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-makers-pu > t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html > Cheers Alan > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Great! Glad they got there safely. >> >> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality > set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll also look > into printing a set in nylon. >> >> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >> >> Cheers! >> Ian. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> >> Hi Ian, >> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no idea > the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have just > finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. I > might have it put together today for a test. >> Thank you again >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due ?to > the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I put the gear > in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the bore out so it would > slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist drive motor yet ;-( ?Hank > On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? > Glad they got there safely. > > Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher quality set > (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? I'll also look > into printing a set in nylon. > > You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. > > Cheers! > ?Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > > Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had no > idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I have just > finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the connection. ?I > might have it put together today for a test.Thank you againHank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 111d52ea/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 > **************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 15:35:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 12:35:59 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20180108123559.C8AED526@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Scrubber1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 64436 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: scrubber3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 61958 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Scrubber2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 69257 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 15:47:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:15 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20180108123559.C8AED526@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20180108123559.C8AED526@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, it looks great and the creativity of using a pasta strainer and patio heater is vintage PSUBS. But how do you fill it? Normally the inside cylinder would be attached to the bottom of the outside cylinder, leaving a space between the two for you to pour in the granules. If the inside cylinder is attached to the lid, you would need to squish the granules out of the way when pushing the inside cylinder in. I think you might find it a bit more convenient to just unscrew the inside cylinder from the lid and bolt it to the bottom instead. You can also make yourself an annular sponge to put between the top of the granules and the lid. They will settle, and there should be no air gap between granules and lid. Best, Alec On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > All, > Got my scrubber ready to go! Here are some pics. > Outside is made from the screen that goes on those outdoor patio heaters, > inside is a pasta strainer. Blower is the a 7.5W 12 volt and the cover is > made from Starboard. > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 16:02:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 13:02:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20180108130226.D782FB7F@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 16:25:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 16:25:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20180108130226.D782FB7F@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20180108130226.D782FB7F@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: But you need something to tamp the Sofnolime down as it settles. My old scrubber used a layer of foam under the lid. My new one has a cylindrical lid that slides between the two cylinders and is kept tight by bungee cords. Emile's scrubber as I recall uses springs. You just need something that will compress the Sofnolime to prevent the formation of an empty gap. If there is a gap between the top of the Sofnolime and the bottom of the lid, air will follow the path of least resistance and not get scrubbed. Best, Alec On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, I think what I'm going to do is make a hole ( or holes) in the > top lid where I can pour the Sofnolime in through a funnel. I'm waiting to > get the Sofnolime to see how big of a funnel I would need. Then I can fill > is all the way up. When I'm done for the day I would take it apart and > dump out the spent medium. I'll fit a cork in the filling hole. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:15 -0500 > > Brian, it looks great and the creativity of using a pasta strainer and > patio heater is vintage PSUBS. But how do you fill it? Normally the inside > cylinder would be attached to the bottom of the outside cylinder, leaving a > space between the two for you to pour in the granules. If the inside > cylinder is attached to the lid, you would need to squish the granules out > of the way when pushing the inside cylinder in. I think you might find it a > bit more convenient to just unscrew the inside cylinder from the lid and > bolt it to the bottom instead. You can also make yourself an annular sponge > to put between the top of the granules and the lid. They will settle, and > there should be no air gap between granules and lid. > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, > Got my scrubber ready to go! Here are some pics. > Outside is made from the screen that goes on those outdoor patio heaters, > inside is a pasta strainer. Blower is the a 7.5W 12 volt and the cover is > made from Starboard. > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 16:34:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 21:34:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: References: <20180108130226.D782FB7F@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <981435970.2843354.1515447290685@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,That looks fantastic! ?great job, but do as Alec says. ?bolt the middle screen to the bottom, so the lid comes off then cut a foam piece to go between the lid and media.It will work like a charm.Hank On Monday, January 8, 2018, 2:26:04 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: But you need something to tamp the Sofnolime down as it settles. My old scrubber used a layer of foam under the lid. My new one has a cylindrical lid that slides between the two cylinders and is kept tight by bungee cords. Emile's scrubber as I recall uses springs. You just need something that will compress the Sofnolime to prevent the formation of an empty gap. If there is a gap between the top of the Sofnolime and the bottom of the lid, air will follow the path of least resistance and not get scrubbed. Best,Alec? On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 4:02 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,??? I think what I'm going to do is make a hole ( or holes) in the top lid where I can pour the Sofnolime in through a funnel.? I'm waiting to get the Sofnolime to see how big of a funnel I would need.? Then I can fill is all the way up.? When I'm done for the day I would take it apart and dump out the spent medium.? I'll fit a cork in the filling hole.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs. org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:15 -0500 Brian, it looks great and the creativity of using a pasta strainer and patio heater is vintage PSUBS. But how do you fill it? Normally the inside cylinder would be attached to the bottom of the outside cylinder, leaving a space between the two for you to pour in the granules. If the inside cylinder is attached to the lid, you would need to squish the granules out of the way when pushing the inside cylinder in. I think you might find it a bit more convenient to just unscrew the inside cylinder from the lid and bolt it to the bottom instead. You can also make yourself an annular sponge to put between the top of the granules and the lid. They will settle, and there should be no air gap between granules and lid.? Best,Alec On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All,?????????????????? Got my scrubber ready to go!?? Here are some pics.? Outside is made from the screen that goes on those outdoor patio heaters, inside is a pasta strainer.? Blower is the a 7.5W 12 volt and the cover is made from Starboard.??Brian ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs. orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 16:36:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 13:36:26 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20180108133626.D784890C@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 8 16:40:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 13:40:51 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20180108134051.D7848EA7@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 03:04:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 10:04:54 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> hi Alan, Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them if they have Electronics inside? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tarek, I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using slightly modified octopus regulators. The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. Let me know if you need any more help. Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi guys, > I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble > finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ on each motor. > I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I > would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be filled > with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. > > > > Appreciate any help in this matter. > > Tarek > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than > "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > 3. Re: new gears (irox via Personal_Submersibles) > 4. Re: new gears (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 > From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi Rick, > > Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a > potentiometer on a knob. > > I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's > to be honest. > > I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the > seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft > thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where > it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. > > Works ok for me. > > The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut > them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. > > To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple on\off > relays. The pots were to complicated to move. > > Got a couple of links here on my site. > regards > James > > This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm > > Main power panel. > > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm > > > > > > > > > On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> James, >> >> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >> Rick >> >> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>> Super simple. >>> >>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>> >>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>> >>> >>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Hi James, >>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single relay) >>>> but they >>> are >>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Hank, >>>> >>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>> >>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>> had >>> used. >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi rick, >>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip tide >>>>> 80's >>> at >>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of batteries >>>>> in series with both pairs connected to the main terminals. I have >>>>> a standard >>> heavy >>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I used >>>>> heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>> >>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>> seems >>> fine. >>>>> >>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >>>>> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >>>>> on/off >>> relays. >>>>> Much better. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v batteries >>>>> , 3 >>> for >>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>> thruster >>> off >>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>> Minn-Kotas >>> in >>>>> his. >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Rick, >>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >>>>> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >>>>> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >>> parallel. >>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the power >>>>>> comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and was >>>>>> wondering if >>> that >>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>> they >>> are >>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>> at a >>> time >>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>> current. >>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank and >>> though >>>>>> I >>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>> about a >>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >>>>>> sufficient from battery source to bus >>> bar >>>>>> as >>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >>>>>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >>>>>> amps I have on my boat? >>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >>>>>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >>>>>> time if can. >>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>> submersibles >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>> submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had > no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I > have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete > the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank > you againHank > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > 71102/ > 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: irox via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: > <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 71102/ > 99442919/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well done Ian. > I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in > Auckland. > Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! > > http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-mak > ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html > Cheers Alan > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Great! Glad they got there safely. >> >> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >> quality > set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll > also look into printing a set in nylon. >> >> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >> >> Cheers! >> Ian. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> >> Hi Ian, >> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >> idea > the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have > just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the > connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >> Thank you again >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > 71103/ > 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due > ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I put > the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the bore out > so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist drive motor yet ;-( ?Hank > On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? > Glad they got there safely. > > Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher > quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? > I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. > > You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. > > Cheers! > ?Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears > > Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had > no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I > have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete > the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank > you againHank _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > 71103/ > 111d52ea/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 > **************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 05:00:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 23:00:05 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> References: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: <59F8F34D-D848-421A-A86B-2FF71F7B3C58@yahoo.com> Hi Tarek, these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling motors around. One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more expensive. There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they crush at I am not sure. Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to strengthen them. I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > hi Alan, > > Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any Electronic > components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them if they have > Electronics inside? > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than > "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process > (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: Motors filled with OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Tarek, > I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese > electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using slightly > modified octopus regulators. > The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. > My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. > Let me know if you need any more help. > Regards Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ on > each motor. >> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I >> would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be filled >> with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >> >> >> >> Appreciate any help in this matter. >> >> Tarek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than >> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> 3. Re: new gears (irox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 4. Re: new gears (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >> potentiometer on a knob. >> >> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's >> to be honest. >> >> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the >> seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft >> thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where >> it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. >> >> Works ok for me. >> >> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut >> them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. >> >> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple on\off >> relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >> >> Got a couple of links here on my site. >> regards >> James >> >> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >> >> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >> >> Main power panel. >> >> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>> Super simple. >>>> >>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>> >>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single relay) >>>>> but they >>>> are >>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>> >>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>>> >>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>> had >>>> used. >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip tide >>>>>> 80's >>>> at >>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of batteries >>>>>> in series with both pairs connected to the main terminals. I have >>>>>> a standard >>>> heavy >>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I used >>>>>> heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>> >>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>> seems >>>> fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >>>>>> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >>>>>> on/off >>>> relays. >>>>>> Much better. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v batteries >>>>>> , 3 >>>> for >>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>> thruster >>>> off >>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>> in >>>>>> his. >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick, >>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >>>>>> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >>>>>> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >>>> parallel. >>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the power >>>>>>> comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and was >>>>>>> wondering if >>>> that >>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>>> they >>>> are >>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>>> at a >>>> time >>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>> current. >>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank and >>>> though >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>> about a >>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >>>>>>> sufficient from battery source to bus >>>> bar >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >>>>>>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >>>>>>> amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >>>>>>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >>>>>>> time if can. >>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>> submersibles >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>> submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had >> no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I >> have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete >> the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank >> you againHank >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 71102/ >> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: >> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 71102/ >> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Well done Ian. >> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in >> Auckland. >> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >> >> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-mak >> ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >> Cheers Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>> >>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>> quality >> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>> >>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Ian. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>> idea >> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>> Thank you again >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 71103/ >> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due >> ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I put >> the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the bore out >> so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist drive motor yet > ;-( ?Hank >> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >> Glad they got there safely. >> >> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >> >> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >> >> Cheers! >> ?Ian. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> >> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I had >> no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, as I >> have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete >> the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a test.Thank >> you againHank _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 71103/ >> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >> **************************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 11:48:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:48:32 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: Yqi2eidXd2d1hYqi4ej7cF References: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> Yqi2eidXd2d1hYqi4ej7cF Message-ID: <000001d38969$b01f77a0$105e66e0$@telus.net> Alan, What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? Tim -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Hi Tarek, these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling motors around. One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more expensive. There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they crush at I am not sure. Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to strengthen them. I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > hi Alan, > > Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any > Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them if > they have Electronics inside? > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 > > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than > "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process > (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: Motors filled with OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 80108/ > 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Tarek, > I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese > electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using > slightly modified octopus regulators. > The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. > My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. > Let me know if you need any more help. > Regards Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ >> on > each motor. >> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I >> would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >> >> >> >> Appreciate any help in this matter. >> >> Tarek >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than >> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. new >> gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears (irox >> via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> Hi Rick, >> >> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >> potentiometer on a knob. >> >> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's >> to be honest. >> >> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the >> seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft >> thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where >> it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. >> >> Works ok for me. >> >> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut >> them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. >> >> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >> >> Got a couple of links here on my site. >> regards >> James >> >> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >> >> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >> >> Main power panel. >> >> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>> Rick >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>> Super simple. >>>> >>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>> >>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi James, >>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>> relay) but they >>>> are >>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>> >>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>>> >>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>> had >>>> used. >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>> tide 80's >>>> at >>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>> heavy >>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>> >>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>> seems >>>> fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >>>>>> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >>>>>> on/off >>>> relays. >>>>>> Much better. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>> for >>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>> thruster >>>> off >>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>> in >>>>>> his. >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Rick, >>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >>>>>> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >>>>>> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >>>> parallel. >>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and >>>>>>> was wondering if >>>> that >>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>>> they >>>> are >>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>>> at a >>>> time >>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>> current. >>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>> and >>>> though >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>> about a >>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >>>>>>> sufficient from battery source to bus >>>> bar >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >>>>>>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >>>>>>> amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >>>>>>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >>>>>>> time if can. >>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>> submersibles >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>> submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >> test.Thank you againHank >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 1 >> 71102/ >> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: >> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 1 >> 71102/ >> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Well done Ian. >> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in >> Auckland. >> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >> >> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-ma >> k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >> Cheers Alan >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>> >>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>> quality >> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>> >>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> Ian. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> >>> Hi Ian, >>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>> idea >> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>> Thank you again >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 1 >> 71103/ >> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due >> ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I >> put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the >> bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist >> drive motor yet > ;-( ?Hank >> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >> Glad they got there safely. >> >> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >> >> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >> >> Cheers! >> ?Ian. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >> >> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >> test.Thank you againHank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 1 >> 71103/ >> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >> **************************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 14:03:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:03:50 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <000001d38969$b01f77a0$105e66e0$@telus.net> References: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> <000001d38969$b01f77a0$105e66e0$@telus.net> Message-ID: Tim, I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & motor controllers. In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Hi Tarek, > these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling motors > around. > One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more > expensive. > There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. > The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil or air > compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic capacitors. You > get these in motor controllers. What pressure they crush at I am not sure. > Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors in a > pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to strengthen > them. > I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored outrunner > motors, & oil compensating them. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> hi Alan, >> >> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them if >> they have Electronics inside? >> Thanks >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than >> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) >> 2. Re: Motors filled with OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 80108/ >> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Tarek, >> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >> slightly modified octopus regulators. >> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >> Let me know if you need any more help. >> Regards Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi guys, >>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of $ >>> on >> each motor. >>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but I >>> would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>> >>> >>> >>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>> >>> Tarek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. new >>> gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears (irox >>> via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> >>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>> potentiometer on a knob. >>> >>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the 101's >>> to be honest. >>> >>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of the >>> seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft >>> thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok where >>> it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. >>> >>> Works ok for me. >>> >>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare cut >>> them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. >>> >>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>> >>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>> regards >>> James >>> >>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>> >>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>> >>> Main power panel. >>> >>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> James, >>>> >>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>> Super simple. >>>>> >>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>> relay) but they >>>>> are >>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>> >>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>> >>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>> had >>>>> used. >>>>>> >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>> at >>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>> heavy >>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>> seems >>>>> fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had those >>>>>>> on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to have just >>>>>>> on/off >>>>> relays. >>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>> for >>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>> thruster >>>>> off >>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>> in >>>>>>> his. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there two >>>>>>> battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 thrusters >>>>>>> off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect both pods in >>>>> parallel. >>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and >>>>>>>> was wondering if >>>>> that >>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>>>> at a >>>>> time >>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>> and >>>>> though >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and the >>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire be >>>>>>>> sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>> bar >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, can >>>>>>>> I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than the 125 >>>>>>>> amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch on >>>>>>>> both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at a >>>>>>>> time if can. >>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>> test.Thank you againHank >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71102/ >>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: >>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71102/ >>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Well done Ian. >>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in >>> Auckland. >>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>> >>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-ma >>> k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>> Cheers Alan >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality >>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> Ian. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian, >>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>> idea >>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>> Thank you again >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71103/ >>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due >>> ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I >>> put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the >>> bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist >>> drive motor yet >> ;-( ?Hank >>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>> Glad they got there safely. >>> >>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>> >>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> ?Ian. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> >>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>> test.Thank you againHank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71103/ >>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>> **************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >> ***************************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 14:39:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 11:39:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: YzCWeIcYf7WleYzCXeLICA References: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> <000001d38969$b01f77a0$105e66e0$@telus.net> YzCWeIcYf7WleYzCXeLICA Message-ID: <001601d38981$8f104130$ad30c390$@telus.net> Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated max depth. Your ambient is really cool. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Tim, I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & motor controllers. In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Hi Tarek, > these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling > motors around. > One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more > expensive. > There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. > The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil > or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic > capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they crush at I am not sure. > Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors > in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to > strengthen them. > I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored > outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> hi Alan, >> >> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >> if they have Electronics inside? >> Thanks >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >> >> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than >> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> > 1 >> 80108/ >> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Tarek, >> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >> slightly modified octopus regulators. >> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >> Let me know if you need any more help. >> Regards Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi guys, >>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>> $ on >> each motor. >>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>> >>> >>> >>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>> >>> Tarek >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. new >>> gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears (irox >>> via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> >>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>> potentiometer on a knob. >>> >>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>> 101's to be honest. >>> >>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft >>> thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for manouvering. >>> >>> Works ok for me. >>> >>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would work. >>> >>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>> >>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>> regards >>> James >>> >>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>> >>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>> >>> Main power panel. >>> >>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> James, >>>> >>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>> Super simple. >>>>> >>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>> relay) but they >>>>> are >>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>> >>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>> >>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>> had >>>>> used. >>>>>> >>>>>> James >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>> at >>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>> heavy >>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>> seems >>>>> fine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>> relays. >>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>> for >>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>> thruster >>>>> off >>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>> in >>>>>>> his. >>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>> both pods in >>>>> parallel. >>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and >>>>>>>> was wondering if >>>>> that >>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>>>> at a >>>>> time >>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>> and >>>>> though >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>> bar >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at >>>>>>>> a time if can. >>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>> test.Thank you againHank >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71102/ >>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: >>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71102/ >>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Well done Ian. >>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in >>> Auckland. >>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>> >>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-ma >>> k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>> Cheers Alan >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality >>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> Ian. >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian, >>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>> idea >>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>> Thank you again >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71103/ >>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due >>> ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I >>> put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the >>> bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist >>> drive motor yet >> ;-( ?Hank >>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>> Glad they got there safely. >>> >>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>> >>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> ?Ian. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>> >>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>> test.Thank you againHank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>> scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 71103/ >>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>> **************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >> ***************************************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 15:25:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <001601d38981$8f104130$ad30c390$@telus.net> References: <027c01d38920$896d0b20$9c472160$@liu.edu.lb> <000001d38969$b01f77a0$105e66e0$@telus.net> <001601d38981$8f104130$ad30c390$@telus.net> Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7@yahoo.com> Tarek, what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? Any design you want to share! Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated max > depth. Your ambient is really cool. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Tim, > I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept prototype for > my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & motor controllers. > In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >> Tim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Hi Tarek, >> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >> motors around. >> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >> expensive. >> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they crush > at I am not sure. >> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >> strengthen them. >> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi Alan, >>> >>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>> if they have Electronics inside? >>> Thanks >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 1 >>> 80108/ >>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Tarek, >>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>> Regards Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>> $ on >>> each motor. >>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>> >>>> Tarek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. new >>>> gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears (irox >>>> via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> >>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>> >>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>> 101's to be honest. >>>> >>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the aft >>>> thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for > manouvering. >>>> >>>> Works ok for me. >>>> >>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it would > work. >>>> >>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>> >>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>> regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>> >>>> Main power panel. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> James, >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I thought >>>>>>> maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high current >>>>>>> 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>> had >>>>>> used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>> at >>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>> off >>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps off >>>>>>>> each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar and >>>>>>>>> was wondering if >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat and >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one side >>>>>>>>> at a >>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank at >>>>>>>>> a time if can. >>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>>> test.Thank you againHank >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Well done Ian. >>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here in >>>> Auckland. >>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>> >>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop-ma >>>> k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality >>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>> idea >>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>> Thank you again >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up due >>>> ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried when I >>>> put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I machined the >>>> bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have the wrist >>>> drive motor yet >>> ;-( ?Hank >>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> ?Ian. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect also, >>>> as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to >>>> complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for a >>>> test.Thank you againHank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> **************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 19:49:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? Thanks Rick On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 20:17:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 20:17:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question Message-ID: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see attached example and working sketch). I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to splice into. There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying on breakers to indicate issues. I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? Thanks Rick On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20 &%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20 &creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . Cliff On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org > wrote: All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. * * Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? Steve * * I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. * _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AMP_Volt Meter.PNG Type: image/png Size: 199604 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: High Current Distribution Circuit.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 173582 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 21:28:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 16:28:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question In-Reply-To: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> References: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve, Thanks for the attachments and input. Are your thrustors 12V? On my 350, my 12v system just runs the instruments so the draw on the 12v should be pretty low but on my 36v side I will need a much larger amp meter as my 3 thrusters at max will be 140 amps but I am also running 6 external LED lights off that bank as well @ about 2.75 amps per lite. Rick On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using > a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see > attached example and working sketch). > > I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) > mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to > splice into. > > > > There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact > location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high > accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could > arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. > > I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I > would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. > > > > Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying > on breakers to indicate issues. > > > > I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. > > > > Steve > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap > into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is > using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to > measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be > a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that > I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a > minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the > necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the > necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also > assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three > thrusters? > > Thanks > > Rick > > > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > > > Cliff > > > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > with a package from DAN Here: > > > > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 9 22:00:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:00:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process In-Reply-To: References: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <3D163379-BA15-4305-BA42-97C15A1BE07E@yahoo.com> Rick, I have been using 100 & 200 amp shunts for measuring Amps & Volts. Yes you will need a meter for each thruster you are measuring unless you can find something like a small PLC that you can wire in to & a monitor that lets you design your own graphics. Amp & volt meters are common so you may find a monitor with a volt meter & amp meter in it's software enabling you to configure the screen with 3 volt meters & 3 amp meters. Steve might know whats available along those lines. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 1:49 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? > Thanks > Rick > >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 >> >> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 06:26:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 11:26:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts References: <1241976194.278677.1515583577633.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1241976194.278677.1515583577633@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 07:20:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:20:10 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <032601d38a0d$5cc700b0$16550210$@liu.edu.lb> Alan, I plan to have the sub suitable for two people, Pilot + one Passenger, who will be sitting behind the Pilot. The initial design is inspired by the "Sea Shadow" stealth ship built for the United States Navy (not sure if you ever seen it). I can send some design pictures later if you like to see. Right now I am still building the Hull (welding + ), that is made out of 3 mm steel. The Cock pit is a bit big (L=1.8 m, H, 0.9 m, and W = 0.7 m) but according to my calculations of C.O.G, C.O.B., and the Meta Centric Height, the sub should be stable and have stable equilibrium. Regarding the Thrusters, I think I will go with the "Air Compensation" method, as from what I know (I might be wrong) "Oil Compensating" not suitable for Brush Motors. If anyone ever tried that I appreciate letting me know. I know of Herve Jaubert's sub but I never read any detailed information about his design. Are they available anywhere? Regards Tarek Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tarek, what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? Any design you want to share! Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated > max depth. Your ambient is really cool. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Tim, > I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept > prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & motor controllers. > In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >> Tim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Hi Tarek, >> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >> motors around. >> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >> expensive. >> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they >> crush > at I am not sure. >> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >> strengthen them. >> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi Alan, >>> >>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>> if they have Electronics inside? >>> Thanks >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 0 >>> 1 >>> 80108/ >>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Tarek, >>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>> Regards Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>> $ on >>> each motor. >>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>> >>>> Tarek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. >>>> new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears >>>> (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> >>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>> >>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>> 101's to be honest. >>>> >>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the >>>> aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for > manouvering. >>>> >>>> Works ok for me. >>>> >>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it >>>> would > work. >>>> >>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>> >>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>> regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>> >>>> Main power panel. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> James, >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I >>>>>>> thought maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high >>>>>>> current 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>> had >>>>>> used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>> at >>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>> off >>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps >>>>>>>> off each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar >>>>>>>>> and was wondering if >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat >>>>>>>>> and they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one >>>>>>>>> side at a >>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank >>>>>>>>> at a time if can. >>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Well done Ian. >>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here >>>> in Auckland. >>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>> >>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop- >>>> ma k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality >>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>> idea >>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>> Thank you again >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up >>>> due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried >>>> when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I >>>> machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have >>>> the wrist drive motor yet >>> ;-( ?Hank >>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> ?Ian. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> **************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? Thanks Rick On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a > Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all > the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the > mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC > control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a > 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass > 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal > is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be > a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass > flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to > ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of > different controller for different rates and different gasses. The > controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the > medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and > you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for > the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog > voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC > source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a > 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very > reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a > Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this > controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable > area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033 > & > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvn > etw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting > set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the > components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might > make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The > delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning > ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is > there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by > a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean > batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A > lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and > rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black > light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as > not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or > assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, > First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? > SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to > create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall > short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 08:05:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 07:05:22 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <1241976194.278677.1515583577633@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201801101304.w0AD4oV4059683@whoweb.com> Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 08:14:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:14:06 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <032701d38a14$e52c96c0$af85c440$@liu.edu.lb> Sorry Alan forget to mention that I do plan to dive out of it, so yes there is an Exit Hole at the bottom of the sub. Tarek -----Original Message----- From: Tarek Harb [mailto:tarek.harb at liu.edu.lb] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:20 PM To: 'personal_submersibles at psubs.org'; 'personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org' Subject: Motors filled with OIL Alan, I plan to have the sub suitable for two people, Pilot + one Passenger, who will be sitting behind the Pilot. The initial design is inspired by the "Sea Shadow" stealth ship built for the United States Navy (not sure if you ever seen it). I can send some design pictures later if you like to see. Right now I am still building the Hull (welding + ), that is made out of 3 mm steel. The Cock pit is a bit big (L=1.8 m, H, 0.9 m, and W = 0.7 m) but according to my calculations of C.O.G, C.O.B., and the Meta Centric Height, the sub should be stable and have stable equilibrium. Regarding the Thrusters, I think I will go with the "Air Compensation" method, as from what I know (I might be wrong) "Oil Compensating" not suitable for Brush Motors. If anyone ever tried that I appreciate letting me know. I know of Herve Jaubert's sub but I never read any detailed information about his design. Are they available anywhere? Regards Tarek Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tarek, what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? Any design you want to share! Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated > max depth. Your ambient is really cool. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Tim, > I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept > prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & motor controllers. > In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >> Tim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Hi Tarek, >> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >> motors around. >> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >> expensive. >> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they >> crush > at I am not sure. >> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >> strengthen them. >> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi Alan, >>> >>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>> if they have Electronics inside? >>> Thanks >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 0 >>> 1 >>> 80108/ >>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Tarek, >>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>> Regards Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>> $ on >>> each motor. >>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>> >>>> Tarek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. >>>> new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears >>>> (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> >>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>> >>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>> 101's to be honest. >>>> >>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the >>>> aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for > manouvering. >>>> >>>> Works ok for me. >>>> >>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it >>>> would > work. >>>> >>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>> >>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>> regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>> >>>> Main power panel. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> James, >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I >>>>>>> thought maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high >>>>>>> current 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>> had >>>>>> used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>> at >>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>> off >>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps >>>>>>>> off each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar >>>>>>>>> and was wondering if >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat >>>>>>>>> and they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one >>>>>>>>> side at a >>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank >>>>>>>>> at a time if can. >>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Well done Ian. >>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here >>>> in Auckland. >>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>> >>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop- >>>> ma k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality >>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>> idea >>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>> Thank you again >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up >>>> due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried >>>> when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I >>>> machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have >>>> the wrist drive motor yet >>> ;-( ?Hank >>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> ?Ian. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> **************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? Thanks Rick On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a > Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all > the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the > mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC > control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a > 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass > 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal > is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be > a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass > flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to > ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of > different controller for different rates and different gasses. The > controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the > medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and > you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for > the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog > voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC > source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a > 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very > reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a > Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this > controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable > area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033 > & > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvn > etw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting > set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the > components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might > make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The > delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning > ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is > there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by > a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean > batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A > lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and > rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black > light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as > not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or > assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, > First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? > SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to > create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall > short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42 ***************************************************** From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 08:25:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 8:25:57 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180110132557.VUTBY.9666.root@cdptpa-web20> Yes my K-250 is a 12V DC system. FYI, In the diagram I sent I have decided I will also be adding battery terminal fuses directly on each of the positive battery posts (the diagram does not currently reflect that). They also make "in-line" shunts that you then use as ammeter sensors. I have attached an image. Thanks, Steve ---- Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for the attachments and input. Are your thrustors 12V? On my 350, my > 12v system just runs the instruments so the draw on the 12v should be > pretty low but on my 36v side I will need a much larger amp meter as my 3 > thrusters at max will be 140 amps but I am also running 6 external LED > lights off that bank as well @ about 2.75 amps per lite. > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using > > a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see > > attached example and working sketch). > > > > I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) > > mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to > > splice into. > > > > > > > > There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact > > location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high > > accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could > > arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. > > > > I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I > > would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. > > > > > > > > Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying > > on breakers to indicate issues. > > > > > > > > I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > > > > > > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > > > > > > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap > > into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is > > using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to > > measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be > > a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that > > I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a > > minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the > > necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the > > necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also > > assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three > > thrusters? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > > with a package from DAN Here: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > > a procedure anyway. > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. > > > > ? > > > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > > share? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Shunt.PNG Type: image/png Size: 83130 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 09:52:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:52:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <201801101304.w0AD4oV4059683@whoweb.com> References: <1241976194.278677.1515583577633@mail.yahoo.com> <201801101304.w0AD4oV4059683@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <575724367.382951.1515595932075@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 10:08:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:08:45 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question In-Reply-To: References: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Rick, I use a company called CRMagnetics for DC current and voltage transmitters. See http://www.crmagnetics.com/analog-transducers I have two battery banks on my boat, the main buss (36VDC) and the auxiliary buss(24VDC). I use these hall effect 0-5VDC analog voltage transmitters for the voltage and current in each bank. Specicially I use the CR5310-30 for voltage and CR5210-20 for the voltage and current of the auxiliary bank and CR5310-50 for voltage and CR5210-200 for the voltage and current of the main battery bank. I take each of these signals into a voltage analog input module in in my PLC. These transmitters are a bit pricy at $170-$200 retail from manufacturer but they come up on ebay all the time at a fraction of this cost. These four transmitters have been rock solid. Cliff On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 8:28 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for the attachments and input. Are your thrustors 12V? On my 350, > my 12v system just runs the instruments so the draw on the 12v should be > pretty low but on my 36v side I will need a much larger amp meter as my 3 > thrusters at max will be 140 amps but I am also running 6 external LED > lights off that bank as well @ about 2.75 amps per lite. > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using >> a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see >> attached example and working sketch). >> >> I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) >> mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to >> splice into. >> >> >> >> There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact >> location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high >> accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could >> arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. >> >> I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but >> I would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. >> >> >> >> Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am >> relying on breakers to indicate issues. >> >> >> >> I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- >> bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> >> >> >> Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate >> computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... >> >> >> >> I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V >> banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap >> into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is >> using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to >> measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be >> a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that >> I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a >> minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the >> necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the >> necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also >> assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three >> thrusters? >> >> Thanks >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow >> meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 >> >> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter >> 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at >> pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the >> gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for >> the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give >> the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will >> pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again >> 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it >> is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porte >> r-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/ >> 232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay >> for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different >> controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 >> pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The >> documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it >> https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)% >> 20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the >> connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage >> signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise >> you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you >> wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support >> system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH >> as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a >> backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019 >> YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative= >> 395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0& >> hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand= >> 6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c& >> hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . >> >> >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions >> asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up >> with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components >> but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things >> easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system >> on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does >> anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a >> little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a >> non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a >> freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch >> of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free >> cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water >> should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, >> or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any >> contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft >> parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my >> K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First >> Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS >> tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to >> create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods >> and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to >> share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods >> and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short >> but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 10:47:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:47:08 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <575724367.382951.1515595932075@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201801101546.w0AFkaIT061330@whoweb.com> Hank, Yes we will have them for sale. It is still going to be a few more months because since they are a life critical system they have to have extensive testing and the patent process takes some time. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 11:16:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:16:31 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question Message-ID: <20180110081631.DC2A34A2@m0117457.ppops.net> Steve, What does that in line shunt do? What amperage fuses are you using at your battery terminals? Are you worried about start up voltage blowing the fuse? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 8:25:57 -0500 Yes my K-250 is a 12V DC system. FYI, In the diagram I sent I have decided I will also be adding battery terminal fuses directly on each of the positive battery posts (the diagram does not currently reflect that). They also make "in-line" shunts that you then use as ammeter sensors. I have attached an image. Thanks, Steve ---- Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for the attachments and input. Are your thrustors 12V? On my 350, my > 12v system just runs the instruments so the draw on the 12v should be > pretty low but on my 36v side I will need a much larger amp meter as my 3 > thrusters at max will be 140 amps but I am also running 6 external LED > lights off that bank as well @ about 2.75 amps per lite. > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using > > a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see > > attached example and working sketch). > > > > I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) > > mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to > > splice into. > > > > > > > > There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact > > location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high > > accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could > > arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. > > > > I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I > > would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. > > > > > > > > Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying > > on breakers to indicate issues. > > > > > > > > I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > > > > > > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > > > > > > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap > > into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is > > using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to > > measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be > > a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that > > I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a > > minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the > > necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the > > necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also > > assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three > > thrusters? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > > with a package from DAN Here: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > > a procedure anyway. > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. > > > > ? > > > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > > share? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 12:02:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 18:02:00 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <032601d38a0d$5cc700b0$16550210$@liu.edu.lb> References: <032601d38a0d$5cc700b0$16550210$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: <0c0c01d38a34$bb3b6240$31b226c0$@nl> Hi Tarek, Yes, please send some pictures from your design. I had a Haswing protuar 2.0 brushless thruster in use for a while. This was a geared design so a efficient slow turning prop and a high RPM brushless motor. The motor RPM was way to high for oil filling. The contrloller was in the thruster and it worked ok for 2 seasons air compensated. Make your air comp. system in the way that it will dump any water (condensation , leak) when air is blown off while ascending. Best regards, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 10 januari 2018 13:20 Aan: personal_submersibles at psubs.org; personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Alan, I plan to have the sub suitable for two people, Pilot + one Passenger, who will be sitting behind the Pilot. The initial design is inspired by the "Sea Shadow" stealth ship built for the United States Navy (not sure if you ever seen it). I can send some design pictures later if you like to see. Right now I am still building the Hull (welding + ), that is made out of 3 mm steel. The Cock pit is a bit big (L=1.8 m, H, 0.9 m, and W = 0.7 m) but according to my calculations of C.O.G, C.O.B., and the Meta Centric Height, the sub should be stable and have stable equilibrium. Regarding the Thrusters, I think I will go with the "Air Compensation" method, as from what I know (I might be wrong) "Oil Compensating" not suitable for Brush Motors. If anyone ever tried that I appreciate letting me know. I know of Herve Jaubert's sub but I never read any detailed information about his design. Are they available anywhere? Regards Tarek Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7 at yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tarek, what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? Any design you want to share! Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? Regards Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated > max depth. Your ambient is really cool. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles > [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > > Tim, > I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept > prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters > & motor controllers. > In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Alan, >> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >> Tim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Hi Tarek, >> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >> motors around. >> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >> expensive. >> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they >> crush > at I am not sure. >> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >> strengthen them. >> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi Alan, >>> >>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>> if they have Electronics inside? >>> Thanks >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> >>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> - >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> >> 0 >>> 1 >>> 80108/ >>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Tarek, >>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>> Regards Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi guys, >>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>> $ on >>> each motor. >>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>> >>>> Tarek >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. >>>> new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears >>>> (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> >>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>> >>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>> 101's to be honest. >>>> >>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the >>>> aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for > manouvering. >>>> >>>> Works ok for me. >>>> >>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it >>>> would > work. >>>> >>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>> >>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>> regards >>>> James >>>> >>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>> >>>> Main power panel. >>>> >>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> James, >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>> Rick >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per motor. >>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>> are >>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I >>>>>>> thought maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high >>>>>>> current 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>> had >>>>>> used. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> James >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>> at >>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>> off >>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps >>>>>>>> off each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar >>>>>>>>> and was wondering if >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat >>>>>>>>> and they >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one >>>>>>>>> side at a >>>>>> time >>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>> though >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank >>>>>>>>> at a time if can. >>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71102/ >>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Well done Ian. >>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here >>>> in Auckland. >>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>> >>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop- >>>> ma k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality >>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> Ian. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>> idea >>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>> Thank you again >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up >>>> due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried >>>> when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I >>>> machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have >>>> the wrist drive motor yet >>> ;-( ?Hank >>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 Great!? >>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>> >>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>> >>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> ?Ian. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>> >>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 20 >>>> 1 >>>> 71103/ >>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> **************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>> ***************************************************** >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? Thanks Rick On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a > Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all > the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the > mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC > control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a > 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass > 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal > is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be > a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass > flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to > ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of > different controller for different rates and different gasses. The > controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the > medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and > you can download it > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for > the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog > voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC > source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a > 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very > reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a > Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this > controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable > area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033 > & > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvn > etw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting > set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the > components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might > make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The > delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning > ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is > there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by > a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean > batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A > lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and > rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black > light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as > not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or > assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen > compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, > First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? > SS > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to > create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall > short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > ubs.org> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42 ***************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 12:33:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:33:00 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question In-Reply-To: <20180110081631.DC2A34A2@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: <20180110173300.SMV6E.12747.root@cdptpa-web20> Brian, here is a link that describes it pretty good (better than I could). You have to match a shunt to a meter if there are not already a package deal. https://www.homepower.com/whats-shunt I am designing for 300A fuses on the positive posts of ea. battery. This is based on my total max. electrical load being calculated at 250A. I can't image the scenario where every load will be energized and drawing max. current at the same time but this is the worse case load potential. I do not see any potential "start up" loads that will result in exceeding these ratings. I also will have a 300A breaker as close to the batteries as possible. These individual battery fuses are an ABS guide line I believe. It just makes me feel better knowing I have protection as close to the batteries as I can get (on the + posts is very close). I think the likelihood of having a short between the batteries and my main breaker is small (secure installation, short cable lengths etc.). Right now I am double checking loads (some are estimated (worse case))and then determining required ratings (breakers, fuses, wire and buss bar sizes etc.) before ordering materials. I will upload my working drawing when I am done to my projects page. They mainly show the planned circuit devices, wire and protection device values. I am oversizing everything a bit. Thanks, Steve ---- Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, What does that in line shunt do? What amperage fuses are you using at your battery terminals? Are you worried about start up voltage blowing the fuse? Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter Question Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 8:25:57 -0500 Yes my K-250 is a 12V DC system. FYI, In the diagram I sent I have decided I will also be adding battery terminal fuses directly on each of the positive battery posts (the diagram does not currently reflect that). They also make "in-line" shunts that you then use as ammeter sensors. I have attached an image. Thanks, Steve ---- Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for the attachments and input. Are your thrustors 12V? On my 350, my > 12v system just runs the instruments so the draw on the 12v should be > pretty low but on my 36v side I will need a much larger amp meter as my 3 > thrusters at max will be 140 amps but I am also running 6 external LED > lights off that bank as well @ about 2.75 amps per lite. > Rick > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using > > a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see > > attached example and working sketch). > > > > I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) > > mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to > > splice into. > > > > > > > > There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact > > location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high > > accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could > > arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. > > > > I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I > > would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. > > > > > > > > Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying > > on breakers to indicate issues. > > > > > > > > I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > *From:* Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles- > > bounces at psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM > > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > > > > > > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > > > > > > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap > > into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is > > using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to > > measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be > > a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that > > I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a > > minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the > > necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the > > necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also > > assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three > > thrusters? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow > > meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter > > 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at > > pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the > > gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for > > the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give > > the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will > > pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again > > 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it > > is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ > > Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- > > MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay > > for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different > > controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 > > pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The > > documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it > > https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- > > Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the > > connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage > > signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise > > you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you > > wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support > > system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as > > a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, > > I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ > > B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033& > > creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw= > > g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= > > c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > > > > > > > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions > > asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up > > with a package from DAN Here: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components > > but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things > > easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system > > on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does > > anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a > > little ball that floats up and down? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a > > non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a > > freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch > > of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free > > cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water > > should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, > > or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any > > contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft > > parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > > > Sean > > > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my > > K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First > > Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > > > > > > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS > > tubing) I may still need to clean. > > > > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document > > a procedure anyway. > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. > > > > ? > > > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to > > share? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and > > Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched > > Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short > > but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 14:03:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 19:03:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <201801101546.w0AFkaIT061330@whoweb.com> References: <575724367.382951.1515595932075@mail.yahoo.com> <201801101546.w0AFkaIT061330@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <183056361.599147.1515611022469@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Do you a price point?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:47:23 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Yes we will have them for sale. It is still going to be a few more months because since they are a life critical system they have to have extensive testing and the patent process takes some time. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 14:11:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 13:11:41 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <183056361.599147.1515611022469@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201801101911.w0AJB925063386@whoweb.com> Hank, It will be somewhere between $200 to $300 each. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 1:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Do you a price point?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:47:23 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Yes we will have them for sale. It is still going to be a few more months because since they are a life critical system they have to have extensive testing and the patent process takes some time. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 14:51:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 19:51:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <201801101911.w0AJB925063386@whoweb.com> References: <183056361.599147.1515611022469@mail.yahoo.com> <201801101911.w0AJB925063386@whoweb.com> Message-ID: <1161352738.602804.1515613864614@mail.yahoo.com> Scott,Perfect! ?do you have a standard bolt size? ?I will need one to mount my new arm. ?When you get some physical measurements firmed up, please let me know so I can accommodate the size. ?Boy what a time saver!Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 12:11:56 PM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, It will be somewhere between $200 to $300 each. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 1:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Do you a price point?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:47:23 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Yes we will have them for sale. It is still going to be a few more months because since they are a life critical system they have to have extensive testing and the patent process takes some time. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 15:01:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 14:01:03 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts In-Reply-To: <1161352738.602804.1515613864614@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201801102000.w0AK0VNM063787@whoweb.com> Hank, Our standard size is 3/8" bolts. The electrical connector is a 4 pin subconn. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 1:51 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Perfect! ?do you have a standard bolt size? ?I will need one to mount my new arm. ?When you get some physical measurements firmed up, please let me know so I can accommodate the size. ?Boy what a time saver!Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 12:11:56 PM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, It will be somewhere between $200 to $300 each. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 1:03 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Do you a price point?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 8:47:23 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Yes we will have them for sale. It is still going to be a few more months because since they are a life critical system they have to have extensive testing and the patent process takes some time. Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 8:52 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Funny you mention that, I have been researching how they work and how I can make my own. ?I am closing in on it, but if your going to sell them?Hank On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 6:05:37 AM MST, Scott Waters via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, Unfoutunatley frangi bolts cost about $5,000 per bolt from TiNi Areospace. The good news is our company is developing our own for about $200 to $300 a piece! Thank you,Scott Waters Sent from my U.S. Cellular? Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/10/18 5:26 AM (GMT-06:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] frangi bolts Scott,Those fringe bolts are amazing! ?Do you have any yet? ?what a fantastic way to upgrade P6. ?I have never heard of such a thing, I suspect they are expensive as hell.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 15:34:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:34:44 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <032701d38a14$e52c96c0$af85c440$@liu.edu.lb> References: <032701d38a14$e52c96c0$af85c440$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: Tarek, Herve ran in to a lot of trouble when making ambient subs in Dubai. He has a book "Escape from Dubai". Not sure what has happened to his sub building. Last I heard he was writing novels. I remember him telling me to have 20 litres per minute of air flowing continually for breathing. It was a little bit difficult getting information out of him. Oil compensation is better at cooling the motor than air although trolling motors are over engineered to take the heat. You put a motor in a sealed enclosure & you make an oven! Also any water that comes in is diluted in the oil & oil will lubricate seals etc. I asked the Fugu subs people about their preference & they said air. http://www.fugusub.com It is a bit of a toss up. Air is easier, oil you need some sort of compensator or compensating bag. Ideally with both systems you have an over pressure of about 5psi inside the thruster housing. Cliff Redus has done a great job documenting his modification of a Minn kota 101 trolling motor on his projects page. Doug has a bit of information on his ambient build with moon pool. http://svseeker.com/argonaut_jr_2010.htm Will mention that Doug had a near accident when surfacing with the moon pool open. The sub came up fast and bounced down again compressing the air in the hull through the moon pool. This caused the sub to be negatively buoyant & it descended quickly. Before they had time to react they were on the bottom but only at 20ft. Could have been fatal if they were in deeper water. Lots of hidden traps with ambients & subs in general so please run everything you are doing past us & we will help you if we can. Cheers Alan ( New Zealand) Sent from my iPad > On 11/01/2018, at 2:14 AM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry Alan forget to mention that I do plan to dive out of it, so yes there > is an Exit Hole at the bottom of the sub. > Tarek > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tarek Harb [mailto:tarek.harb at liu.edu.lb] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:20 PM > To: 'personal_submersibles at psubs.org'; > 'personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org' > Subject: Motors filled with OIL > > Alan, > I plan to have the sub suitable for two people, Pilot + one Passenger, who > will be sitting behind the Pilot. The initial design is inspired by the > "Sea Shadow" stealth ship built for the United States Navy (not sure if you > ever seen it). I can send some design pictures later if you like to see. > Right now I am still building the Hull (welding + ), that is made out of 3 > mm steel. The Cock pit is a bit big (L=1.8 m, H, 0.9 m, and W = 0.7 m) but > according to my calculations of C.O.G, C.O.B., and the Meta Centric Height, > the sub should be stable and have stable equilibrium. > Regarding the Thrusters, I think I will go with the "Air Compensation" > method, as from what I know (I might be wrong) "Oil Compensating" not > suitable for Brush Motors. > If anyone ever tried that I appreciate letting me know. > > I know of Herve Jaubert's sub but I never read any detailed information > about his design. Are they available anywhere? > > Regards > Tarek > > > > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Tarek, > what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? > Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? > Any design you want to share! > Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? > Regards Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated >> max depth. Your ambient is really cool. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Tim, >> I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept >> prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & > motor controllers. >> In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >>> Tim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> >>> Hi Tarek, >>> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >>> motors around. >>> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >>> expensive. >>> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >>> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >>> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >>> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they >>> crush >> at I am not sure. >>> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >>> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >>> strengthen them. >>> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >>> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> hi Alan, >>>> >>>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>>> if they have Electronics inside? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 0 >>>> 1 >>>> 80108/ >>>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> Tarek, >>>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>>> Regards Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>>> $ on >>>> each motor. >>>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> Tarek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>>> >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than >>>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. >>>>> new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears >>>>> (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>>> >>>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>>> 101's to be honest. >>>>> >>>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the >>>>> aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for >> manouvering. >>>>> >>>>> Works ok for me. >>>>> >>>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it >>>>> would >> work. >>>>> >>>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>>> >>>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>>> regards >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>>> >>>>> Main power panel. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> James, >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per > motor. >>>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I >>>>>>>> thought maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high >>>>>>>> current 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>> used. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps >>>>>>>>> off each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar >>>>>>>>>> and was wondering if >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat >>>>>>>>>> and they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one >>>>>>>>>> side at a >>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank >>>>>>>>>> at a time if can. >>>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71102/ >>>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 3 >>>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71102/ >>>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Well done Ian. >>>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here >>>>> in Auckland. >>>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>>> >>>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop- >>>>> ma k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>>> quality >>>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>>> >>>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>> Ian. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>>> idea >>>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>>> Thank you again >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71103/ >>>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 5 >>>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up >>>>> due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried >>>>> when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I >>>>> machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have >>>>> the wrist drive motor yet >>>> ;-( ?Hank >>>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 > Great!? >>>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> ?Ian. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71103/ >>>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>>> **************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into > a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a > meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. > Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot > easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have > to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute > difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace > rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up > against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I > should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? > Thanks > Rick > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow >> meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 >> >> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a >> Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all >> the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the >> mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC >> control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a >> 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass >> 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal >> is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be >> a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass >> flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ >> Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- >> MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to >> ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of >> different controller for different rates and different gasses. The >> controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the >> medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and >> you can download it >> https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- >> Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for >> the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog >> voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC >> source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a >> 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very >> reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a >> Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this >> controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable >> area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ >> B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033 >> & >> creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvn >> etw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= >> c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions >> asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting >> set up with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the >> components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might >> make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The >> delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning >> ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is >> there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a >> non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by >> a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean >> batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A >> lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and >> rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black >> light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as >> not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or >> assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible > lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my >> K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, >> First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? >> SS >> tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to >> create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and >> Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to >> share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and >> Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall >> short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > ubs.org> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > ubs.org> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 8e57a6b8/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 10 18:48:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 12:48:07 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL In-Reply-To: <032701d38a14$e52c96c0$af85c440$@liu.edu.lb> References: <032701d38a14$e52c96c0$af85c440$@liu.edu.lb> Message-ID: Tarek, also on Doug's sight is DryDive, an ambient submarine. http://www.submarineboat.com/dry_ambient.htm Alan Sent from my iPad > On 11/01/2018, at 2:14 AM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Sorry Alan forget to mention that I do plan to dive out of it, so yes there > is an Exit Hole at the bottom of the sub. > Tarek > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tarek Harb [mailto:tarek.harb at liu.edu.lb] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:20 PM > To: 'personal_submersibles at psubs.org'; > 'personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org' > Subject: Motors filled with OIL > > Alan, > I plan to have the sub suitable for two people, Pilot + one Passenger, who > will be sitting behind the Pilot. The initial design is inspired by the > "Sea Shadow" stealth ship built for the United States Navy (not sure if you > ever seen it). I can send some design pictures later if you like to see. > Right now I am still building the Hull (welding + ), that is made out of 3 > mm steel. The Cock pit is a bit big (L=1.8 m, H, 0.9 m, and W = 0.7 m) but > according to my calculations of C.O.G, C.O.B., and the Meta Centric Height, > the sub should be stable and have stable equilibrium. > Regarding the Thrusters, I think I will go with the "Air Compensation" > method, as from what I know (I might be wrong) "Oil Compensating" not > suitable for Brush Motors. > If anyone ever tried that I appreciate letting me know. > > I know of Herve Jaubert's sub but I never read any detailed information > about his design. Are they available anywhere? > > Regards > Tarek > > > > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 09:25:07 +1300 > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL > Message-ID: <5C53A91C-CD18-4B53-8569-000F985594A7 at yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Tarek, > what size sub are you planning, 1,2 person? > Are you intending to dive from it from out of a moon pool in the bottom? > Any design you want to share! > Are you familiar with Herve Jaubert's ambient submarines? > Regards Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 10/01/2018, at 8:39 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Alan. 130fsw should work just fine, that's my sub's designated >> max depth. Your ambient is really cool. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Personal_Submersibles >> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 11:04 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >> >> Tim, >> I didn't go much more than 30ft in it. It was really a concept >> prototype for my 1atm. I will dive it again but with my new thrusters & > motor controllers. >> In theory it could go as deep a diver could on air. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 10/01/2018, at 5:48 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> What was the max depth that you tested your ambient sub? >>> Tim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>> On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 2:00 AM >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>> >>> Hi Tarek, >>> these were brushed. There are very few inexpensive brushless trolling >>> motors around. >>> One or two Chinese trolling motors I know of but generally a lot more >>> expensive. >>> There is nothing in the way of electronics inside the brushed motors. >>> The main thing you have got to look out for if you want to either oil >>> or air compensate electronics is the big cylindrical electrolytic >>> capacitors. You get these in motor controllers. What pressure they >>> crush >> at I am not sure. >>> Would be a good experiment to put a bunch of various sized capacitors >>> in a pressure test chamber. You can pot around them with resin to >>> strengthen them. >>> I am making my own brushless thrusters from brushless sensored >>> outrunner motors, & oil compensating them. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 9/01/2018, at 9:04 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> hi Alan, >>>> >>>> Were these Trolling Motors Brushless or not and did they have any >>>> Electronic components inside them? Can I still Air Compensate them >>>> if they have Electronics inside? >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:11 PM >>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>>> >>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than >>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) 2. Re: Motors filled with >>>> OIL (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 08:08:31 -0800 >>>> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >>>> Message-ID: <20180108080831.C8ACDB98 at m0117164.ppops.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> >>> 0 >>>> 1 >>>> 80108/ >>>> 8bea3a15/attachment-0001.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 08:11:11 +1300 >>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motors filled with OIL >>>> Message-ID: <1F7583C5-3CE9-4096-9981-4636046DEAB6 at yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> Tarek, >>>> I built a very small dry ambient submarine using inexpensive Chinese >>>> electric trolling motors. I air compensated the motors & hull using >>>> slightly modified octopus regulators. >>>> The motors for my next submersible will be oil compensated. >>>> My project is under ambient & Alan James on the psub projects page. >>>> Let me know if you need any more help. >>>> Regards Alan >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On 8/01/2018, at 11:53 PM, Tarek Harb via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> I am building a Dry Ambient Submarine and I been having trouble >>>>> finding a suitable Motors for it, as I don't want to spend 1000s of >>>>> $ on >>>> each motor. >>>>> I am sure that the topic has been brought up many times before, but >>>>> I would like to enquire about the best Trolling Motor that can be >>>>> filled with OIL in order to withstand 40 meters Depth of Water. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Appreciate any help in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> Tarek >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Personal_Submersibles >>>>> [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:28 AM >>>>> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>>> >>>>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to >>>>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than >>>>> "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: batteries (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) 2. >>>>> new gears (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) 3. Re: new gears >>>>> (irox via Personal_Submersibles) 4. Re: new gears (Alan via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles) 5. Re: new gears (hank pronk via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 18:34:36 +0000 >>>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] batteries >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Rick, >>>>> >>>>> Yes, the standard Min kota controller has reverse. Its just a >>>>> potentiometer on a knob. >>>>> >>>>> I went for 24v min kota rip tide 80's. Wish I had gone for the >>>>> 101's to be honest. >>>>> >>>>> I have the aft thruster rigged with the controller at the side of >>>>> the seat, so I set the power and trundle off. I tend to use the >>>>> aft thruster for surface driving or slow seabed cruising, so its ok >>>>> where it is. Then I use the side thrusters while submerged for >> manouvering. >>>>> >>>>> Works ok for me. >>>>> >>>>> The pots on the controllers are on a ribbon cable. I didn't dare >>>>> cut them to extend to anything more useful, although I suspect it >>>>> would >> work. >>>>> >>>>> To be honest, that's why I changed the side thrusters to simple >>>>> on\off relays. The pots were to complicated to move. >>>>> >>>>> Got a couple of links here on my site. >>>>> regards >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> This was how I had it originally. Was awkward to use side thrusters. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19613.htm >>>>> >>>>> Main power panel. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page19348.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 31/10/2017, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> James, >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn't realize that the Minn-Kota controllers had a reverse setting? >>>>>> Rick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 3:39 AM, James Frankland via >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have continuous duty ones at a suitable current rating. Cant >>>>>>> remember off hand. But I don't have the reversing because I can >>>>>>> rotate the side motors for reverse. So I just have 1 relay per > motor. >>>>>>> Super simple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also have the standard minn kota controller on the rear thruster. >>>>>>> which allows reverse and speed control. All 3 items all fit into >>>>>>> one box with a cooling fan for good measure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry, cant recommend anything other than the simple setup I have. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 11:55, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>> I am using continues duty relays and it takes 4 relays per motor. >>>>>>>> On my vertical thrusters I am using reversing relays (single >>>>>>>> relay) but they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> not continues duty, witch is okay. I want to simplify by using >>>>>>>> reversing relays (continuous duty) on the main motors. I >>>>>>>> thought maybe you already have that and could recommend what works. >>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 5:14:50 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Hank, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I cant remember off the top of my head now. I just had a quick >>>>>>>> search and I cant find them. They are just standard high >>>>>>>> current 24v pots of some sort. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I seem to remember they were similar to yours. Or some that you >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>> used. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 31 October 2017 at 10:25, hank pronk via >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi James, >>>>>>>>> What type of relays are you using? >>>>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 31, 2017, 3:10:27 AM MDT, James Frankland >>>>>>>>> via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi rick, >>>>>>>>> I'm here. What do you want to know? I'm using minn Kota rip >>>>>>>>> tide 80's >>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> 24v. 2x banks of 4 agm's. These are wired in 2 pairs of >>>>>>>>> batteries in series with both pairs connected to the main >>>>>>>>> terminals. I have a standard >>>>>>> heavy >>>>>>>>> switch so I can use each bank separately or both together. I >>>>>>>>> used heavy tinned marine cable. Can't remember the thickness. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I find my motors a little underpowered, but other than that it >>>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>> fine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aft thruster has the minn Kota controller, I originally had >>>>>>>>> those on the sides but found it a pain, so I changed those to >>>>>>>>> have just on/off >>>>>>> relays. >>>>>>>>> Much better. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> James >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, 30 October 2017, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alan >>>>>>>>> Yes there are 2 separate pods each containing 4 each 12v >>>>>>>>> batteries , 3 >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the 36v for thrusters & 1 for the onboard systems. >>>>>>>>> DAN H built his per plans and specs and is running his stern >>>>>>>>> thruster >>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> one side & and sides off the other side but he is not running >>>>>>> Minn-Kotas. >>>>>>>>> I am hopping James Franklin will chime in as he is using the >>>>>>>>> Minn-Kotas >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> his. >>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 8:13 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rick, >>>>>>>>> I am not familiar with the k350 battery set up, but are there >>>>>>>>> two battery pods with 3 x 12V batteries in each pod? >>>>>>>>> What are the other k350 owners doing? Do they run the 3 >>>>>>>>> thrusters off the 2 battery pods similtaneously i.e. connect >>>>>>>>> both pods in >>>>>>> parallel. >>>>>>>>> If you did this then you would only be drawing half the amps >>>>>>>>> off each battery pod, than you would be if you were using one. >>>>>>>>> I wonder what traction batteries mobility scooters use? >>>>>>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 29/10/2017, at 9:27 AM, Rick Patton via >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am trying to size my wire for the 36v side from where the >>>>>>>>>> power comes into the sub to selector switch to hot buss bar >>>>>>>>>> and was wondering if >>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> was something that someone could answer. Also I was told by >>>>>>>>>> Minn-Kota that they recommend group 27 marine batteries. >>>>>>>>>> I have a couple of deep cycle (marine batteries) on my boat >>>>>>>>>> and they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> 550 cca and 125 amps reserve capacity. >>>>>>>>>> My plan is to run all three Minn-kota thrusters off of one >>>>>>>>>> side at a >>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>> and their max draw is 46 amps max so there is 138 amps if all >>>>>>>>>> three thrusters are wide open. I doubt I would ever have all >>>>>>>>>> three maxed for more than short spurts but want to be repaired >>>>>>>>>> for the worst case scenario like if I am bucking a strong >>>>>>>>>> current. >>>>>>>>>> I also will be running 6 outside LED lights off the same bank >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> though >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> can dim them and selectively use them, all on at max would be >>>>>>>>>> about a >>>>>>>>>> 16.6 >>>>>>>>>> amp draw as well. Now most of the time I will be using the >>>>>>>>>> thrusters at minimal draw and not all 3 at the same time and >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> 6 lights will probably never all be on at the same time. >>>>>>>>>> If everything was wide open, I would be pulling about 155 amps >>>>>>>>>> from a bank that has a reserve capacity of 125 so it would >>>>>>>>>> deplete the bank rather fast and may even damage the batteries >>>>>>>>>> due to a quick drain? So,,, first question...would 2 OTT wire >>>>>>>>>> be sufficient from battery source to bus >>>>>>> bar >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> long as I am not running full tilt on everythig and second... >>>>>>>>>> since I have to stick with a lead acid system due to design, >>>>>>>>>> can I get a group 27 battery that can deliver much more than >>>>>>>>>> the 125 amps I have on my boat? >>>>>>>>>> I also have the option of putting the battery selector switch >>>>>>>>>> on both banks if I have to but would rather deplete one bank >>>>>>>>>> at a time if can. >>>>>>>>>> Comments appreciated. >>>>>>>>>> Rick >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. >>>>>>>>> org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ >>>>>>>>> submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 18:30:48 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <110503463.1580898.1509647448063 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71102/ >>>>> 2d1cbff4/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 3 >>>>> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2017 12:06:16 -0700 (GMT-07:00) >>>>> From: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> <220196530.10316.1509649576216 at wamui-mouse.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71102/ >>>>> 99442919/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 08:26:09 +1300 >>>>> From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <845E2172-3DE9-4641-A154-5C76DAB1C3A5 at yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Well done Ian. >>>>> I have posted this before. It is of 3d propeller testing done here >>>>> in Auckland. >>>>> Their preference in the end was polycarbonate! >>>>> >>>>> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160302-wooden-3d-printed-boat-prop- >>>>> ma k ers-pu t-filaments-to-the-test-with-surprising-results.html >>>>> Cheers Alan >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/11/2017, at 8:06 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Great! Glad they got there safely. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know if they work. If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>>> quality >>>>> set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing). I'll >>>>> also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>>> >>>>>> You're most welcome. Thanks for all the videos. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>> Ian. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Ian, >>>>>> The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! I had no >>>>>> idea >>>>> the fine detail capability. The timing is perfect also, as I have >>>>> just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears to complete the >>>>> connection. I might have it put together today for a test. >>>>>> Thank you again >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71103/ >>>>> 2f2f2c5f/attachment-0001.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 5 >>>>> Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 01:27:47 +0000 (UTC) >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> Message-ID: <1390402376.1802262.1509672467596 at mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Ian,The gears seem pretty tough, and I am sure they will stand up >>>>> due ?to the thickness. ?They machine nicely also, I was worried >>>>> when I put the gear in the lathe chuck, but is was fine. ?I >>>>> machined the bore out so it would slide nicely. ?Pitty I don't have >>>>> the wrist drive motor yet >>>> ;-( ?Hank >>>>> On Thursday, November 2, 2017, 1:06:29 PM MDT, irox via >>>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> #yiv3031387229 #yiv3031387229 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3031387229 > Great!? >>>>> Glad they got there safely. >>>>> >>>>> Let me know if they work.? If so I'll print up a slightly higher >>>>> quality set (probably a couple, for spares and destructive testing).? >>>>> I'll also look into printing a set in nylon. >>>>> >>>>> You're most welcome.? Thanks for all the videos. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> ?Ian. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> Sent: Nov 2, 2017 11:30 AM >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] new gears >>>>> >>>>> Hi Ian,The gears you made for me arrived, and they are amazing! ?I >>>>> had no idea the fine detail capability. ?The timing is perfect >>>>> also, as I have just finished the gripper and need the wrist gears >>>>> to complete the connection. ?I might have it put together today for >>>>> a test.Thank you againHank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>> 20 >>>>> 1 >>>>> 71103/ >>>>> 111d52ea/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>>> **************************************************** >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 36 >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 14:49:02 -1000 > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate > computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V > banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into > a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a > meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. > Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot > easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have > to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute > difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace > rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up > against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I > should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? > Thanks > Rick > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow >> meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > org> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > org> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 >> >> Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a >> Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all >> the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the >> mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC >> control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a >> 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass >> 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal >> is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be >> a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass >> flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ >> Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr- >> MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to >> ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of >> different controller for different rates and different gasses. The >> controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the >> medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and >> you can download it >> https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D- >> Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for >> the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog >> voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC >> source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a >> 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very >> reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a >> Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this >> controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable >> area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/ >> B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033 >> & >> creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvn >> etw= g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev= >> c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions >> asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting >> set up with a package from DAN Here: >> >> >> https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 >> >> >> It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the >> components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might >> make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The >> delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning >> ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is >> there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process >> Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 >> >> I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a >> non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by >> a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean >> batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A >> lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and >> rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black >> light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as >> not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or >> assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible > lubricants (i.e. Christolube). >> >> Sean >> >> Sent from ProtonMail mobile >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my >> K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, >> First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. >> >> However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? >> SS >> tubing) I may still need to clean. >> >> I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to >> create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and >> Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. >> >> ? >> >> ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to >> share? >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and >> Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched >> Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall >> short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. >> >> ? >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > ubs.org> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > ubs.org> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > 8e57a6b8/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 55, Issue 42 > ***************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 03:12:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:12:18 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber Message-ID: https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/la-baule-44500/la-turballe-13-ans-il-fabrique-son-premier-sous-marin-5203517 It seems the father helped a bit, but still quite impressive... regards, Antoine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 08:30:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 8:30:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180111133020.SQIP5.20420.root@cdptpa-web20> Interesting even though I couldn't find a translate button : ) The thruster arrangement looks like a unique approach. Also the lower hatch. Wonder if they are locking out? Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Steve ---- Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/la-baule-44500/la-turballe-13-ans-il-fabrique-son-premier-sous-marin-5203517 > > It seems the father helped a bit, but still quite impressive... > > regards, > Antoine From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 12:15:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (T Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:15:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber In-Reply-To: ZcwOefRyiEBHoZcwPeJZMS References: ZcwOefRyiEBHoZcwPeJZMS Message-ID: <001f01d38aff$d37f5f70$7a7e1e50$@telus.net> Translation to English: At 13, he makes his own submarine Changed on 25/08/2017 at 10:20 | Posted on 24/08/2017 at 18:24 listen Photo caption: Evrard Perrin, his father, and a friend, at the port of La Turballe with Sub Explored. | West France Juliette Sellin and the local correspondent / Ouest-France It's not the Beatles' song. But almost. ?vrard Perrin, 13, from La Turballe, Loire-Atlantique, built his first submarine. The machine is 4.90 m long and weighs 1.8 tons! "It's not genius. It's passion. In La Turballe, the young Evrard Perrin made a surprising machine at the age of 13: a submarine. His name ? Sub Explored. White nights With its color worthy of the Beatles' song Yellow Submarine, the teenager's submarine has been meticulously crafted, and in just one year. "We found plans and documents," explains Franck Perrin, father and collaborator. In libraries and on the Internet. " But they admit it both, it took "several sleepless nights" to see its bright yellow. "We worked during school holidays and weekends. " This piece of metal 4.90 m long, and weighing 1,800 t, has everything to explore the seabed: three portholes, tank, ballast ... "All components come from recycled materials", which the duo has found in garbage dumps or at scrap dealers. On the side of its tightness. "The tests are conclusive". The submarine has a range of 45 minutes, down to 3 meters, and can accommodate three children or two adults. "Driving is easy, it can be done alone. " Photo caption: The Sub Sub Explored on the launching crane. | West France "Passionate about the marine environment" But why make a submarine? "I am passionate about the marine environment," explains the young man who has been diving with his father for several years. Everything is explained. Evrard Perrin is not yet at his first stroke master. Inventions have been jostling since childhood: musical boxes at age 6, electric bike at age 8, and electric scooter at age 9. "If he had been able to build his baby carriage in his mother's womb, he would have done it," comments Franck Perrin. And it's not over. The pair finished his new project: a diver "in one day". For the future, ?vrard later plans to become a fighter pilot or engineer in naval aviation. Obviously, it looks good. -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:30 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber Interesting even though I couldn't find a translate button : ) The thruster arrangement looks like a unique approach. Also the lower hatch. Wonder if they are locking out? Thanks for sharing. Thanks, Steve ---- Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/la-baule-44500/la-turballe-13-a ns-il-fabrique-son-premier-sous-marin-5203517 > > It seems the father helped a bit, but still quite impressive... > > regards, > Antoine _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 14:03:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 08:03:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber In-Reply-To: <001f01d38aff$d37f5f70$7a7e1e50$@telus.net> References: <001f01d38aff$d37f5f70$7a7e1e50$@telus.net> Message-ID: Thanks Tim, 10ft diving depth; they could probably safely extend that to 30ft if they made it ambient! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/01/2018, at 6:15 AM, T Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Translation to English: > > At 13, he makes his own submarine > Changed on 25/08/2017 at 10:20 | Posted on 24/08/2017 at 18:24 > listen > > Photo caption: Evrard Perrin, his father, and a friend, at the port of La > Turballe with Sub Explored. | West France > > Juliette Sellin and the local correspondent / Ouest-France > It's not the Beatles' song. But almost. ?vrard Perrin, 13, from La Turballe, > Loire-Atlantique, built his first submarine. The machine is 4.90 m long and > weighs 1.8 tons! > "It's not genius. It's passion. In La Turballe, the young Evrard Perrin made > a surprising machine at the age of 13: a submarine. His name ? Sub Explored. > > White nights > > With its color worthy of the Beatles' song Yellow Submarine, the teenager's > submarine has been meticulously crafted, and in just one year. "We found > plans and documents," explains Franck Perrin, father and collaborator. In > libraries and on the Internet. " > But they admit it both, it took "several sleepless nights" to see its bright > yellow. "We worked during school holidays and weekends. " > > This piece of metal 4.90 m long, and weighing 1,800 t, has everything to > explore the seabed: three portholes, tank, ballast ... "All components come > from recycled materials", which the duo has found in garbage dumps or at > scrap dealers. > On the side of its tightness. "The tests are conclusive". The submarine has > a range of 45 minutes, down to 3 meters, and can accommodate three children > or two adults. "Driving is easy, it can be done alone. " > > Photo caption: The Sub Sub Explored on the launching crane. | West France > > "Passionate about the marine environment" > > But why make a submarine? "I am passionate about the marine environment," > explains the young man who has been diving with his father for several > years. Everything is explained. > Evrard Perrin is not yet at his first stroke master. Inventions have been > jostling since childhood: musical boxes at age 6, electric bike at age 8, > and electric scooter at age 9. "If he had been able to build his baby > carriage in his mother's womb, he would have done it," comments Franck > Perrin. And it's not over. > The pair finished his new project: a diver "in one day". For the future, > ?vrard later plans to become a fighter pilot or engineer in naval aviation. > Obviously, it looks good. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 5:30 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] a 13yr old French psubber > > Interesting even though I couldn't find a translate button : ) > > The thruster arrangement looks like a unique approach. Also the lower hatch. > Wonder if they are locking out? > > Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Antoine Delafargue via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/la-baule-44500/la-turballe-13-a > ns-il-fabrique-son-premier-sous-marin-5203517 >> >> It seems the father helped a bit, but still quite impressive... >> >> regards, >> Antoine > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 17:58:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:58:25 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings Message-ID: <20180111145825.E749E15B@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 18:17:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:17:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings In-Reply-To: <20180111145825.E749E15B@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180111145825.E749E15B@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1828360632.1543870.1515712625867@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,For inside the sub you can just put a paediatric regulator on a medical O2 tank. ?Hank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 3:58:40 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? All, ???????????????? I'm still a bit perplexed about which fittings I should get for my small inside O2 bottle.? At my local dive shop they have a rebreather bottle that is commonly used ( I believe 17 cu ft.) but it has a female fitting on it.? The fittings I see at EMT? http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm?? have a different type of fitting .?? The rebreather bottle seems like a good size for inside bottle.? Apparently Poseidon Rebreathers has an office close to me just south of LA,? the guys at the dive shop are helping me sort out the right fittings and are inquiring through Poseidon,.? They deal with Poseidon and know the people over there.? ?On those regulators, is there just a single stage and it is then just cracked slightly above your flow rate?? ??Brian_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 18:22:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:22:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: tanks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1505909556.1530637.1515712969550@mail.yahoo.com> You need a tank like this ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:20:34 PM MSTSubject: tanks https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxygen-Tank-O2-Medical-Aluminum-Cylinder-Type-E-680-Liters-29-Tall-DOT-2015/332514143332?hash=item4d6b632c64:g:2PAAAOSwUn9aPpXQ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2018-01-11 at 4.20 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11640 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 18:23:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:23:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1016481387.1548440.1515713021985@mail.yahoo.com> you need a regulator that looks like this but with the lower flow rate (paediatric) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:22:14 PM MSTSubject: https://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Oxygen-Regulator-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-0-15-lpm-3000-psi/382244812905?hash=item58ff90f869:g:tRIAAOSwi~5Z16nk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2018-01-11 at 4.22 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8904 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 18:47:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:47:54 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20180111154754.E749DD45@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 18:51:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20180111154754.E749DD45@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20180111154754.E749DD45@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <931857403.1552127.1515714679059@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, you can get those medical bottles in all sizes, I carry 4 bottles in Gamma. ?The regulator is similar yes.Hank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:48:09 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? According to my calculations , and I think our subs have about the same volume ( 96.69 cu ft? or 2,707 liters)?? that I could put a maximum of about 569 liters of 02 in my sub to bring it up to 25% oxygen.? So that rebreather bottle looks pretty good.??So Hank,? is that a yoke style regulator similar to a scuba regulator ??? the rebreather bottles have a different fitting.??? ?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:23:41 +0000 (UTC) you need a regulator that looks like this but with the lower flow rate (paediatric) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:22:14 PM MSTSubject: https://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Oxygen-Regulator-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-0-15-lpm-3000-psi/382244812905?hash=item58ff90f869:g:tRIAAOSwi~5Z16nk _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 19:18:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 13:18:52 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20180111154754.E749DD45@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20180111154754.E749DD45@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <229426AE-D052-4076-B141-514F886773AD@yahoo.com> Brian, I can't remember exactly what I did it, but I had an O2 cleaned scuba tank with a first stage regulator & the O2 running from the low pressure to the paediatric click type flow regulator. You can just get a second stage reg hose & get an adapter for the click style regulator put on at the dive shop or at a hydraulic hose shop. I visited the hydraulic shop multiple times. I believe there are a couple of options for connections on the paediatric regulator, so find the one that you will be able to adapt best. If you have a 3 person sub you need 3 days O2 per person to be ABS compliant. If you are insistent on having the air inside, I would err on the side of complying with the 3 day regulation rather than the O2 % rule. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 12/01/2018, at 12:47 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, According to my calculations , and I think our subs have about the same volume ( 96.69 cu ft or 2,707 liters) that I could put a maximum of about 569 liters of 02 in my sub to bring it up to 25% oxygen. So that rebreather bottle looks pretty good. > > So Hank, is that a yoke style regulator similar to a scuba regulator ? the rebreather bottles have a different fitting. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:23:41 +0000 (UTC) > > you need a regulator that looks like this but with the lower flow rate (paediatric) > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: xxx xxxxx > To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:22:14 PM MST > Subject: > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Oxygen-Regulator-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-0-15-lpm-3000-psi/382244812905?hash=item58ff90f869:g:tRIAAOSwi~5Z16nk > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 19:34:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 16:34:40 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20180111163440.E74952A7@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 19:48:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 16:48:06 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <20180111164806.E74984CF@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 20:36:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 01:36:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20180111164806.E74984CF@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180111164806.E74984CF@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1104859545.1587172.1515720968586@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, you can fill them yourself from a big tank from your torch set.That is what I doHank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 5:48:25 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? I'm not sure my dive shop can fill those bottles.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Brian, you can get those medical bottles in all sizes, I carry 4 bottles in Gamma. ?The regulator is similar yes.Hank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:48:09 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? According to my calculations , and I think our subs have about the same volume ( 96.69 cu ft? or 2,707 liters)?? that I could put a maximum of about 569 liters of 02 in my sub to bring it up to 25% oxygen.? So that rebreather bottle looks pretty good.??So Hank,? is that a yoke style regulator similar to a scuba regulator ??? the rebreather bottles have a different fitting.??? ?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:23:41 +0000 (UTC) you need a regulator that looks like this but with the lower flow rate (paediatric) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:22:14 PM MSTSubject: https://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Oxygen-Regulator-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-0-15-lpm-3000-psi/382244812905?hash=item58ff90f869:g:tRIAAOSwi~5Z16nk _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 20:44:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:44:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings In-Reply-To: <20180111145825.E749E15B@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180111145825.E749E15B@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: CGA 540: This connection is on your industrial oxygen bottles, and will be made via either wrench tightened or handwheel tightened fittings. The CGA 540 is a metal to metal seal which requires preload to deform the mating surfaces within the connection. When you buy oxygen in large bottles, this is the connection you get. CGA 850: This is your standard SCUBA yoke connection which mates to a yoke style SCUBA regulator. The connection is sealed by an o-ring, and tightened by a yoke screw on the regulator against the rear side of the valve. CGA 870: This is also known as a "pin-indexed" yoke, and is the valve / connection used on medical / therapeutic oxygen bottles and regulators. Your D, jumbo D and E size medical cylinders will have this style of valve. This connection is sealed by means of a brass washer with an elastomer insert (reusable), or by a teflon washer (single / limited use). Medical oxygen regulators, which typically not only regulate pressure but also incorporate flow control devices, mate to the CGA 870 with a yoke screw similar to the CGA 850 arrangement. Oxygen regulators incorporate pins which mate with aligned holes in the cylinder valve, to prohibit using an oxygen regulator on a non-oxygen valve. DIN 477: This is the "technical" SCUBA cylinder / regulator threaded connection, which is manufactured in 200, 232 and 300 bar working pressure versions. The only difference between these is the depth of thread, with the 300 bar DIN being the most secure connection, but prohibiting the use of adapters which can screw in to the female valve thread and permit their use with CGA 850 regulators with a yoke screw in the shorter 200 bar version of the valve. The DIN 477 connection seals with an o-ring (threads are straight and non-sealing), but the o-ring groove exists on the regulator side, rather than on the valve stem as with the CGA 850. DIN 477 is viewed as superior to CGA 850 both because of it's mechanical robustness when assembled, and because of the reduced chance of entanglement in diving applications owing to the lack of a yoke screw. Permanently installed vessels which are filled via manifold may do away with cylinder valves entirely and be plumbed in via fittings in the cylinder neck threads, with appropriate overpressure relief mechanisms and flow control devices incorporated elsewhere. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 11, 2018, 15:58, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > All, > I'm still a bit perplexed about which fittings I should get for my small inside O2 bottle. At my local dive shop they have a rebreather bottle that is commonly used ( I believe 17 cu ft.) but it has a female fitting on it. The fittings I see at EMT http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm have a different type of fitting . The rebreather bottle seems like a good size for inside bottle. Apparently Poseidon Rebreathers has an office close to me just south of LA, the guys at the dive shop are helping me sort out the right fittings and are inquiring through Poseidon,. They deal with Poseidon and know the people over there. > > On those regulators, is there just a single stage and it is then just cracked slightly above your flow rate? > > Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 20:45:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 01:45:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1104859545.1587172.1515720968586@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180111164806.E74984CF@m0117565.ppops.net> <1104859545.1587172.1515720968586@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1605358500.1620234.1515721507702@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Actually your better off with your O2 tank from the dive shop, if they are willing to fill it. ?When I fill my own from the big tank, I can not get full bottles as the pressure drops in the big tank. ?That is one reason I have 4 bottles, they are not full to capacity. ?In Canada, I can not get medical O2, they will not sell it to me. ?I even tried to get my doctor to give me a prescription, no luck ;-(Hank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 6:36:31 PM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, you can fill them yourself from a big tank from your torch set.That is what I doHank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 5:48:25 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?? I'm not sure my dive shop can fill those bottles.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Brian, you can get those medical bottles in all sizes, I carry 4 bottles in Gamma. ?The regulator is similar yes.Hank On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:48:09 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,????????? According to my calculations , and I think our subs have about the same volume ( 96.69 cu ft? or 2,707 liters)?? that I could put a maximum of about 569 liters of 02 in my sub to bring it up to 25% oxygen.? So that rebreather bottle looks pretty good.??So Hank,? is that a yoke style regulator similar to a scuba regulator ??? the rebreather bottles have a different fitting.??? ?Brian?? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 23:23:41 +0000 (UTC) you need a regulator that looks like this but with the lower flow rate (paediatric) ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: xxx xxxxx To: hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:22:14 PM MSTSubject: https://www.ebay.com/itm/O2-Oxygen-Regulator-MEDICAL-OXYGEN-0-15-lpm-3000-psi/382244812905?hash=item58ff90f869:g:tRIAAOSwi~5Z16nk _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 11 21:03:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 18:03:47 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings Message-ID: <20180111180347.E7495C98@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 12 10:03:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:03:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings In-Reply-To: <20180111180347.E7495C98@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20180111180347.E7495C98@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <4jlb52wDjpbPAkpNWBlfq6LxkhCiA5XgHGLRIcXZPqEY9aNK9APmvMIJp8ZBsnDPKqqB5oZgTdU5hwn30KIVwQTGjEWYlXPqygmbsiCneys=@protonmail.com> Almost all cylinders available for purchase at dive shops can be ordered with DIN valves instead of with yoke valves. Finding the hybrid ones with the adapter inserts may be a bit tougher. I use the full depth 300 bar DIN valves for SCUBA diving exclusively. For a sub, I might lean more towards standard industrial valves and fittings. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 11, 2018, 19:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, > Do you have a source for those "technical" scuba bottles with the DIN 477 fittings? 200 bar > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:44:30 -0500 > > CGA 540: > > This connection is on your industrial oxygen bottles, and will be made via either wrench tightened or handwheel tightened fittings. The CGA 540 is a metal to metal seal which requires preload to deform the mating surfaces within the connection. When you buy oxygen in large bottles, this is the connection you get. > > CGA 850: > > This is your standard SCUBA yoke connection which mates to a yoke style SCUBA regulator. The connection is sealed by an o-ring, and tightened by a yoke screw on the regulator against the rear side of the valve. > > CGA 870: > > This is also known as a "pin-indexed" yoke, and is the valve / connection used on medical / therapeutic oxygen bottles and regulators. Your D, jumbo D and E size medical cylinders will have this style of valve. This connection is sealed by means of a brass washer with an elastomer insert (reusable), or by a teflon washer (single / limited use). Medical oxygen regulators, which typically not only regulate pressure but also incorporate flow control devices, mate to the CGA 870 with a yoke screw similar to the CGA 850 arrangement. Oxygen regulators incorporate pins which mate with aligned holes in the cylinder valve, to prohibit using an oxygen regulator on a non-oxygen valve. > > DIN 477: > > This is the "technical" SCUBA cylinder / regulator threaded connection, which is manufactured in 200, 232 and 300 bar working pressure versions. The only difference between these is the depth of thread, with the 300 bar DIN being the most secure connection, but prohibiting the use of adapters which can screw in to the female valve thread and permit their use with CGA 850 regulators with a yoke screw in the shorter 200 bar version of the valve. The DIN 477 connection seals with an o-ring (threads are straight and non-sealing), but the o-ring groove exists on the regulator side, rather than on the valve stem as with the CGA 850. DIN 477 is viewed as superior to CGA 850 both because of it's mechanical robustness when assembled, and because of the reduced chance of entanglement in diving applications owing to the lack of a yoke screw. > > Permanently installed vessels which are filled via manifold may do away with cylinder valves entirely and be plumbed in via fittings in the cylinder neck threads, with appropriate overpressure relief mechanisms and flow control devices incorporated elsewhere. > > Sean > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 11, 2018, 15:58, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> All, >> I'm still a bit perplexed about which fittings I should get for my small inside O2 bottle. At my local dive shop they have a rebreather bottle that is commonly used ( I believe 17 cu ft.) but it has a female fitting on it. The fittings I see at EMT http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm have a different type of fitting . The rebreather bottle seems like a good size for inside bottle. Apparently Poseidon Rebreathers has an office close to me just south of LA, the guys at the dive shop are helping me sort out the right fittings and are inquiring through Poseidon,. They deal with Poseidon and know the people over there. >> >> On those regulators, is there just a single stage and it is then just cracked slightly above your flow rate? >> >> Brian > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 12 15:33:33 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:33:33 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings Message-ID: <20180112123333.E7497B98@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 12 15:47:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:47:46 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fw: tanks In-Reply-To: <1505909556.1530637.1515712969550@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1505909556.1530637.1515712969550@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not sure Hank but they may not fill those with non medical grade 02 if you wanted to go that route? Rick On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 1:23 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > You need a tank like this > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* xxx xxxxx > *To:* hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca > *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2018, 4:20:34 PM MST > *Subject:* tanks > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxygen-Tank-O2-Medical-Aluminum-Cylinder-Type-E-680-Liters-29-Tall-DOT-2015/332514143332?hash=item4d6b632c64:g:2PAAAOSwUn9aPpXQ > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2018-01-11 at 4.20 PM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11640 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 12 17:44:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 17:44:20 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings In-Reply-To: <20180112123333.E7497B98@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180112123333.E7497B98@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Keep in mind that you can also obtain adapter fittings such as e.g. NPT to CGA 870, so you could have off-board O2 attached via a CGA 540 nipple, plumbed through the hull (through isolator valve), run to where you need it and then adapt to a CGA 870 block which would accept a medical regulator. Lots of options. I have a fill whip for performing transfills off my O2 cascade (5 bottles) which has quick disconnects on either end, and then I have a bunch of 540, 850, 870, and DIN 477 ends that I can click on to fill anything from anything. Sean Sent from ProtonMail mobile -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 12, 2018, 13:33, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Apparently my dive shop will fill the medical bottles as well as the other rebreather bottles , in fact they will fill anything I want ! So I can stop stressing about how I am going to proceed. I'll just go with the medical set up for my inside cabin 02 for now. And then will work out a larger outside system , probably just a 72 or 100 cu ft . > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:03:42 -0500 > > Almost all cylinders available for purchase at dive shops can be ordered with DIN valves instead of with yoke valves. Finding the hybrid ones with the adapter inserts may be a bit tougher. I use the full depth 300 bar DIN valves for SCUBA diving exclusively. For a sub, I might lean more towards standard industrial valves and fittings. > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 11, 2018, 19:03, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Sean, >> Do you have a source for those "technical" scuba bottles with the DIN 477 fittings? 200 bar >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" >> To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] O2 fittings >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 20:44:30 -0500 >> >> CGA 540: >> >> This connection is on your industrial oxygen bottles, and will be made via either wrench tightened or handwheel tightened fittings. The CGA 540 is a metal to metal seal which requires preload to deform the mating surfaces within the connection. When you buy oxygen in large bottles, this is the connection you get. >> >> CGA 850: >> >> This is your standard SCUBA yoke connection which mates to a yoke style SCUBA regulator. The connection is sealed by an o-ring, and tightened by a yoke screw on the regulator against the rear side of the valve. >> >> CGA 870: >> >> This is also known as a "pin-indexed" yoke, and is the valve / connection used on medical / therapeutic oxygen bottles and regulators. Your D, jumbo D and E size medical cylinders will have this style of valve. This connection is sealed by means of a brass washer with an elastomer insert (reusable), or by a teflon washer (single / limited use). Medical oxygen regulators, which typically not only regulate pressure but also incorporate flow control devices, mate to the CGA 870 with a yoke screw similar to the CGA 850 arrangement. Oxygen regulators incorporate pins which mate with aligned holes in the cylinder valve, to prohibit using an oxygen regulator on a non-oxygen valve. >> >> DIN 477: >> >> This is the "technical" SCUBA cylinder / regulator threaded connection, which is manufactured in 200, 232 and 300 bar working pressure versions. The only difference between these is the depth of thread, with the 300 bar DIN being the most secure connection, but prohibiting the use of adapters which can screw in to the female valve thread and permit their use with CGA 850 regulators with a yoke screw in the shorter 200 bar version of the valve. The DIN 477 connection seals with an o-ring (threads are straight and non-sealing), but the o-ring groove exists on the regulator side, rather than on the valve stem as with the CGA 850. DIN 477 is viewed as superior to CGA 850 both because of it's mechanical robustness when assembled, and because of the reduced chance of entanglement in diving applications owing to the lack of a yoke screw. >> >> Permanently installed vessels which are filled via manifold may do away with cylinder valves entirely and be plumbed in via fittings in the cylinder neck threads, with appropriate overpressure relief mechanisms and flow control devices incorporated elsewhere. >> >> Sean >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 11, 2018, 15:58, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> All, >>> I'm still a bit perplexed about which fittings I should get for my small inside O2 bottle. At my local dive shop they have a rebreather bottle that is commonly used ( I believe 17 cu ft.) but it has a female fitting on it. The fittings I see at EMT http://www.emtmedicalco.com/OXYGEN-AIR-FLOWMETERS-FITTINGS_c85.htm have a different type of fitting . The rebreather bottle seems like a good size for inside bottle. Apparently Poseidon Rebreathers has an office close to me just south of LA, the guys at the dive shop are helping me sort out the right fittings and are inquiring through Poseidon,. They deal with Poseidon and know the people over there. >>> >>> On those regulators, is there just a single stage and it is then just cracked slightly above your flow rate? >>> >>> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list [Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org](/eonapps/ft/wm/page/compose?send_to=Personal_Submersibles%40psubs.org) http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 13 18:20:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:20:52 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Message-ID: <20180113152052.EDD49EBA@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Jan 13 21:21:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 02:21:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber In-Reply-To: <20180113152052.EDD49EBA@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180113152052.EDD49EBA@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <222531097.2730661.1515896490853@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Nice, I really like your scrubber! ?looks factory made.Hank On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 4:21:09 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? It turns out my scrubber will fit in a plastic bucket, just makes it.? Would be a good way to store it and preserve the absorbent.? Ordered 44 lbs of Sofnolime? should be here soon .? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 13:02:26 -0800 Alec,??? I think what I'm going to do is make a hole ( or holes) in the top lid where I can pour the Sofnolime in through a funnel.? I'm waiting to get the Sofnolime to see how big of a funnel I would need.? Then I can fill is all the way up.? When I'm done for the day I would take it apart and dump out the spent medium.? I'll fit a cork in the filling hole.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:15 -0500 Brian, it looks great and the creativity of using a pasta strainer and patio heater is vintage PSUBS. But how do you fill it? Normally the inside cylinder would be attached to the bottom of the outside cylinder, leaving a space between the two for you to pour in the granules. If the inside cylinder is attached to the lid, you would need to squish the granules out of the way when pushing the inside cylinder in. I think you might find it a bit more convenient to just unscrew the inside cylinder from the lid and bolt it to the bottom instead. You can also make yourself an annular sponge to put between the top of the granules and the lid. They will settle, and there should be no air gap between granules and lid.? Best,Alec On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All,?????????????????? Got my scrubber ready to go!?? Here are some pics.? Outside is made from the screen that goes on those outdoor patio heaters, inside is a pasta strainer.? Blower is the a 7.5W 12 volt and the cover is made from Starboard.??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 16 16:19:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:19:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> References: <002101d389b0$ba1e3e70$2e5abb50$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Re-thinking the ammeter question. I had suggested using a shunt for measuring amps & Cliff is using some expensive unit based on measuring the electric field around the wire. With a PLC could I not just buy an inexpensive Voltage sensor with 4-20Ma output & an inexpensive resistance sensor with 4-20Ma output & calculate the Amps in the PLC program based on these 2 numbers (V/R=A) Does anyone know of a suitable Voltage & resistance sensor, or is this not the best way to do it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/01/2018, at 2:17 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Rick, I am making the same decision currently. I am leaning toward using a 300A ammeter to monitor total current draw in my 12V DC system (see attached example and working sketch). > I am going to use the ?circular loop? style tap (hall effect sensor) mainly because the point I am monitoring is 2/0 AWG. Not an easy thing to splice into. > > There might be some sensitivity/accuracy issues associated with the exact location of the wire within the sensor but I not concerned with high accuracy as much as a repeatable reference. I would guess you could arrange/install it such as to minimize this positional concern. > I am not sure about the sensor being affected by ?touching? the hull but I would just mount it such that it avoids that contact. > > Personally I am not monitoring individual thruster circuits but am relying on breakers to indicate issues. > > I am trying to keep things simple in my K-250. > > Steve > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:49 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > > Can't get into my contacts page to send a new thread rite now (I hate computers) so gonna tag this thread for something different, sorry... > > I am getting ready to purchase my amp and volt meters for the 12V and 36V banks and had a few questions. There are two ways that I know of to tap into a line to measure current. One is a direct splice and the other is using a meter that has a DROK/necklace that encircles the wire you want to measure. Would like to know the best way to go on those types. It would be a lot easier to use a necklace type to minimize the amount of splices that I have to make and moisture proof but a friend of mine said that there is a minute difference in readings if the wire is up against the side of the necklace rather than in the middle and I also wounder if having the necklace up against the steel hull would mess with the readings? I also assume that I should have a separate amp meter for each of my three thrusters? > Thanks > Rick > > On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, I ordered those items ! I'm going to get another style flow meter as well . How accurate is that acrylic flow meter? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 14:21:18 -0600 > > Brian, in my (Air Monitoring, Oxygen Control) AMOC system, I use a Porter 201-FSVP mass controller. Ebay has these units for sell all the time at pennies on the dollar. These unit will both measure the mass rate of the gas in SLPM and also control it. There are two 0-5VDC control signals for the unit. For this partuclar unit which has a 0-10 SLPM span, if you give the controller pin 5V, then it will pass 10 SLPM if you give it 0V, it will pass zero SLPM. The other singal is an analog voltage output signal again 5Vdc for full span, would be a measured 10 SLPM and a zero signal means it is reading zero mass flowrate of gas. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porter-201-AFASVPAA-Mass-Flow-Controller-10-SLPM-760-Torr-MFC/232159305887?hash=item360dc5e09f:g:BTAAAOSwmrlUrcG1 is a link to ebay for a unit very close to this. Porter (Parker) make a ton of different controller for different rates and different gasses. The controller as a 9 pin blade style connector that is used widely in the medical industry. The documentation on these meters is excellent and you can download it https://www.parker.com/literature/MFM%20&%20MFC%20(D-Conn.)%20(FM-898%20Rev.%20E).pdf . The manual calls out the spec for the connector. I use this unit with a PLC but single it is analog voltage signals, you could control with potentiometer off a 5VDC source. Likewise you could use an analog display that would take a 0-5VDC signal if you wanted. I have found these units to be very reliable. In my Life support system module, I use a Swagelok a Vernier needle valve model SS-SS4-VH as a bypass around this controller for manual O2 bleed control. As a backup, I use a variable area meter like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019YS4PSG/ref=asc_df_B019YS4PSG5328541/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B019YS4PSG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198097951144&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6957636125906653374&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027968&hvtargid=pla-542207540152 . > > Cliff > > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 1:56 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I just talked to my local dive shop and they will fill O2 no questions asked . They say they do it all the time. I'm thinking of getting set up with a package from DAN Here: > > > https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/dive-store/?catno=9 > > > It seems to be somewhat problematic getting the right all the components but getting one of these units from the DAN website might make things easier as far as getting bottles filled and so forth. The delivery system on these units I don't think has enough fine tuning ability however. Does anyone have a good flow meter to recommend? Is there an analog type with a little ball that floats up and down? > > > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] At Home O2 Cleaning Process > Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500 > > I use dilute acetic acid to remove any existing corrosion, and then a non-solvent hydrocarbon-free detergent solution to clean, followed by a freshwater rinse, and possibly another cycle using a separate clean batch of detergent solution. Use dedicated brushes for each bin. A lint-free cloth should come back clean, and the cleaner solution and rinse water should both produce no fluorescence under UV (black light). Dry passively, or with filtered air or bottled nitrogen so as not to reintroduce any contaminants. Any subsequent lubrication or assembly with lubricated soft parts should be done with oxygen compatible lubricants (i.e. Christolube). > > Sean > > Sent from ProtonMail mobile > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 6, 2018, 09:23, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > All, I am working on cleaning some parts/pieces for O2 service on my K-250. I am buying most items ?pre-cleaned? such as: Tank w/Valve, First Stage Regulator, Thru Hull Isolation Valve, Flow Regulator. > > However, I will have some parts & pieces (mainly misc. adaptors and ? SS tubing) I may still need to clean. > I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. > > ? > > ? Maybe someone already has a procedure (or opinion) they want to share? > > Steve > > > > ? > > > ? I am using ASTM G93, "Standard Practice for Cleaning Methods and Cleanliness Levels for Material and Equipment Used in Oxygen-Enriched Environments" as the standard. I know an ?at home? process will fall short but looking to create/document a procedure anyway. > > ? > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 16 18:33:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:33:41 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC question Message-ID: <85345137-6262-488A-A3E9-0F1A0FD3DD2B@yahoo.com> Re-thinking the ammeter question. I had suggested using a shunt for measuring amps & Cliff is using some expensive unit based on measuring the electric field around the wire. With a PLC could I not just buy an inexpensive Voltage sensor with 4-20Ma output & an inexpensive resistance sensor with 4-20Ma output & calculate the Amps in the PLC program based on these 2 numbers (V/R=A) I believe these items are called conditioners; most are very expensive. Can't understand why as multimeters do a number of measuring functions & are cheap. Does anyone know of a suitable Voltage & resistance sensor, or is this not the best way to do it. Cliff, what are you using for measuring voltage, thanks. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 16 19:07:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:07:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emailing: IMG_20180115_210324763[1] Message-ID: <000301d38f27$2a6efe50$7f4cfaf0$@indy.rr.com> All, I am sharing a photo of my HP manifold build. All my K-250 HP plumbing is centralized here. Fits between 2 frames and the whole mounting bracket/assembly is easily removed for maintenance. Not too big, but spread out enough to easily operate. Fed by 2 independent external scuba bottles through one way check valves. Control output valves to fwd/aft soft ballast tanks. Isolation output valve to BIBS. Manifold pressure gauge. I am also locating the O2 flow meter on this mounting bracket. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20180115_210324763[1].jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90679 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 16 19:32:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 13:32:40 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question Message-ID: This is the third time I've sent this as it hasn't returned to me. Apologies if you have received it 3 times. Re-thinking the ammeter question. I had suggested using a shunt for measuring amps & Cliff is using some expensive unit based on measuring the magnetic field around the wire. With a PLC could I not just buy an inexpensive Voltage sensor with 4-20Ma output & an inexpensive resistance sensor with 4-20Ma output & calculate the Amps in the PLC program based on these 2 numbers (V/R=A) I believe these items are called conditioners; most are very expensive. Can't understand why as multimeters do a number of measuring functions & are cheap. Does anyone know of a suitable Voltage & resistance sensor, or is this not the best way to do it. Cliff, what are you using for measuring voltage, thanks. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 16 19:35:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:35:10 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 HP Manifold Example Message-ID: <000001d38f2b$09d6bcb0$1d843610$@indy.rr.com> Forwarding with an updated subject. -----Original Message----- From: Steve McQueen [mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:07 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Emailing: IMG_20180115_210324763[1] All, I am sharing a photo of my HP manifold build. All my K-250 HP plumbing is centralized here. Fits between 2 frames and the whole mounting bracket/assembly is easily removed for maintenance. Not too big, but spread out enough to easily operate. Fed by 2 independent external scuba bottles through one way check valves. Control output valves to fwd/aft soft ballast tanks. Isolation output valve to BIBS. Manifold pressure gauge. I am also locating the O2 flow meter on this mounting bracket. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20180115_210324763[1].jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90679 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 17 17:42:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 11:42:27 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: Just seeing if this is working. Sent an email out 3 times to psubs yesterday & it didn't make it back to me. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 17 19:34:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 00:34:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] testing References: <1315448647.94371.1516235650572.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1315448647.94371.1516235650572@mail.yahoo.com> Testing one two three?anyone out there?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 18 04:57:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:57:23 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] plans Message-ID: Hi All Does anyone know if Jon is around? I have had a few Off List people ask me about plans. I always point them to the group but they don't get any response. Is there anyone else in the group that provides the plans on behalf of psubs? I could point these people in their direction instead? Thanks james From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 18 13:26:33 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 07:26:33 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <28F53FAC-BE35-4EDF-A579-EFF8BB131C53@yahoo.com> Haven't been able to post the last few days, checking whether we are up & running. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 19 14:03:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 08:03:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail Ping Message-ID: <57D66882-86D7-4462-932B-287726C38721@yahoo.com> Is it working yet? Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 19 14:39:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 14:39:13 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: Quiet in here... Sean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 21 16:23:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 21:23:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ping References: <1889191187.1575376.1516569809708.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1889191187.1575376.1516569809708@mail.yahoo.com> It's been quiet for a week. Just want to make sure the aliens haven't abducted you all. -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 1/13/18, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber To: "Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles" Date: Saturday, January 13, 2018, 8:21 PM Brian,Nice, I really like your scrubber! ?looks factory made.Hank On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 4:21:09 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??? It turns out my scrubber will fit in a plastic bucket, just makes it.? Would be a good way to store it and preserve the absorbent.? Ordered 44 lbs of Sofnolime? should be here soon .? ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 13:02:26 -0800 Alec,??? I think what I'm going to do is make a hole ( or holes) in the top lid where I can pour the Sofnolime in through a funnel.? I'm waiting to get the Sofnolime to see how big of a funnel I would need.? Then I can fill is all the way up.? When I'm done for the day I would take it apart and dump out the spent medium.? I'll fit a cork in the filling hole.?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Scrubber Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 15:47:15 -0500 Brian, it looks great and the creativity of using a pasta strainer and patio heater is vintage PSUBS. But how do you fill it? Normally the inside cylinder would be attached to the bottom of the outside cylinder, leaving a space between the two for you to pour in the granules. If the inside cylinder is attached to the lid, you would need to squish the granules out of the way when pushing the inside cylinder in. I think you might find it a bit more convenient to just unscrew the inside cylinder from the lid and bolt it to the bottom instead. You can also make yourself an annular sponge to put between the top of the granules and the lid. They will settle, and there should be no air gap between granules and lid.? Best,Alec On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All,?????????????????? Got my scrubber ready to go!?? Here are some pics.? Outside is made from the screen that goes on those outdoor patio heaters, inside is a pasta strainer.? Blower is the a 7.5W 12 volt and the cover is made from Starboard.??Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 21 16:25:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 10:25:49 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: <19066022-B742-4BEC-8C0A-075FA71121D9@yahoo.com> Testing. Haven't been able to get a return on emails for last 5 days. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 07:02:27 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 07:02:27 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 17:30:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 17:30:54 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004101d393d0$abfb2540$03f16fc0$@indy.rr.com> I received this email. Steve From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:02 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 17:37:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:37:34 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <19066022-B742-4BEC-8C0A-075FA71121D9@yahoo.com> References: <19066022-B742-4BEC-8C0A-075FA71121D9@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <093187DB-3674-4864-AD11-C1CE9EA3528E@snyderemail.com> Got the email. > On Jan 21, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Testing. Haven't been able to get a return on emails for last > 5 days. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 17:41:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:41:09 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Emailing: IMG_20180115_210324763[1] In-Reply-To: <000301d38f27$2a6efe50$7f4cfaf0$@indy.rr.com> References: <000301d38f27$2a6efe50$7f4cfaf0$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: Great looking! ? > On Jan 16, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All, I am sharing a photo of my HP manifold build. All my K-250 HP plumbing > is centralized here. Fits between 2 frames and the whole mounting > bracket/assembly is easily removed for maintenance. Not too big, but spread > out enough to easily operate. Fed by 2 independent external scuba bottles > through one way check valves. Control output valves to fwd/aft soft ballast > tanks. Isolation output valve to BIBS. Manifold pressure gauge. > > I am also locating the O2 flow meter on this mounting bracket. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 18:10:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 23:10:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1398099706.3376436.1516662653376@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,Received On Monday, January 22, 2018, 3:30:04 PM MST, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 18:11:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 23:11:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2090304738.3381694.1516662681904@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Received On Monday, January 22, 2018, 3:27:29 PM MST, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just seeing if this is working. Sent an email out 3 times to psubs yesterday & it didn't make it back to me. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 18:14:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 23:14:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 HP Manifold Example In-Reply-To: <000001d38f2b$09d6bcb0$1d843610$@indy.rr.com> References: <000001d38f2b$09d6bcb0$1d843610$@indy.rr.com> Message-ID: <2057400799.3425414.1516662844377@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,Nice, and I see thread tape ;-)Hank On Monday, January 22, 2018, 3:27:09 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Forwarding with an updated subject. -----Original Message----- From: Steve McQueen [mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:07 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' Subject: Emailing: IMG_20180115_210324763[1] All, I am sharing a photo of my HP manifold build. All my K-250 HP plumbing is centralized here. Fits between 2 frames and the whole mounting bracket/assembly is easily removed for maintenance. Not too big, but spread out enough to easily operate. Fed by 2 independent external scuba? bottles through one way check valves. Control output valves to fwd/aft soft ballast tanks. Isolation output valve to BIBS. Manifold pressure gauge. I am also locating the O2 flow meter on this mounting bracket. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 18:31:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:31:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 HP Manifold Example In-Reply-To: <2057400799.3425414.1516662844377@mail.yahoo.com> References: <000001d38f2b$09d6bcb0$1d843610$@indy.rr.com> <2057400799.3425414.1516662844377@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301d393d9$130f9150$392eb3f0$@indy.rr.com> Yeah. I think the feedback was pretty one sided and made sense. From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:14 PM To: Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-250 HP Manifold Example Steve, Nice, and I see thread tape ;-) Hank On Monday, January 22, 2018, 3:27:09 PM MST, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Forwarding with an updated subject. -----Original Message----- From: Steve McQueen [mailto:psub101 at indy.rr.com ] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 7:07 PM To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' > Subject: Emailing: IMG_20180115_210324763[1] All, I am sharing a photo of my HP manifold build. All my K-250 HP plumbing is centralized here. Fits between 2 frames and the whole mounting bracket/assembly is easily removed for maintenance. Not too big, but spread out enough to easily operate. Fed by 2 independent external scuba bottles through one way check valves. Control output valves to fwd/aft soft ballast tanks. Isolation output valve to BIBS. Manifold pressure gauge. I am also locating the O2 flow meter on this mounting bracket. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:08:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:08:29 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail Ping In-Reply-To: <57D66882-86D7-4462-932B-287726C38721@yahoo.com> References: <57D66882-86D7-4462-932B-287726C38721@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ping On Jan 22, 2018 2:29 PM, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Is it working yet? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:08:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:08:42 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ping On Jan 22, 2018 2:29 PM, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Quiet in here... > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:27:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:27:46 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alan I use a company called CRMagnetics for DC current and voltage transmitters. See http://www.crmagnetics.com/analog-transducers I have two battery banks on my boat, the main buss (36VDC) and the auxiliary buss(24VDC). I use these hall effect 0-5VDC analog voltage transmitters for the voltage and current in each bank. Specicially I use the CR5310-30 for voltage and CR5210-20 for the voltage and current of the auxiliary bank and CR5310-50 for voltage and CR5210-200 for the voltage and current of the main battery bank. I take each of these signals into a voltage analog input module in in my PLC. These transmitters are a bit pricy at $170-$200 retail from manufacturer but they come up on ebay all the time at a fraction of this cost. These four transmitters have been rock solid. Cliff On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > This is the third time I've sent this as it hasn't returned to me. > Apologies if you have received it 3 times. > Re-thinking the ammeter question. > I had suggested using a shunt for measuring amps & Cliff is using some > expensive unit based on measuring the magnetic field around the wire. > With a PLC could I not just buy an inexpensive Voltage sensor with 4-20Ma > output > & an inexpensive resistance sensor with 4-20Ma output & calculate the Amps > in the PLC program based on these 2 numbers (V/R=A) > I believe these items are called conditioners; most are very expensive. > Can't > understand why as multimeters do a number of measuring functions & are > cheap. > Does anyone know of a suitable Voltage & resistance sensor, or is this not > the best way to do it. Cliff, what are you using for measuring voltage, > thanks. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:33:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:33:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply References: <1698560324.3429136.1516667631821.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1698560324.3429136.1516667631821@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I finally installed my 12 to 5 volt converter to power my CO2 meter. ?I just chopped off the AC converter and tested to see witch wire was positive and then wired it to the converter. ?Works a treat and no more AC inverter.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:35:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:35:14 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59F95441-1E05-4943-BCD3-327F3924C49E@snyderemail.com> Ping > On Jan 22, 2018, at 6:08 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Ping > >> On Jan 22, 2018 2:29 PM, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: >> Quiet in here... >> >> Sean >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 19:38:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:38:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <59F95441-1E05-4943-BCD3-327F3924C49E@snyderemail.com> References: <59F95441-1E05-4943-BCD3-327F3924C49E@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: <411574515.3477745.1516667897174@mail.yahoo.com> Gregory,received On Monday, January 22, 2018, 5:35:29 PM MST, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ping On Jan 22, 2018, at 6:08 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Ping On Jan 22, 2018 2:29 PM, "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" wrote: Quiet in here... Sean ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 22:54:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 16:54:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, I will need to do a bit of research on this one. Analogue volt meters to 50V dc sell for NZ 20- ; surely there must be a volt meter compatible with a plc for around that price! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 23/01/2018, at 1:27 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan > > I use a company called CRMagnetics for DC current and voltage transmitters. See http://www.crmagnetics.com/analog-transducers I have two battery banks on my boat, the main buss (36VDC) and the auxiliary buss(24VDC). I use these hall effect 0-5VDC analog voltage transmitters for the voltage and current in each bank. Specicially I use the CR5310-30 for voltage and CR5210-20 for the voltage and current of the auxiliary bank and CR5310-50 for voltage and CR5210-200 for the voltage and current of the main battery bank. I take each of these signals into a voltage analog input module in in my PLC. These transmitters are a bit pricy at $170-$200 retail from manufacturer but they come up on ebay all the time at a fraction of this cost. These four transmitters have been rock solid. > > Cliff > >> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> This is the third time I've sent this as it hasn't returned to me. >> Apologies if you have received it 3 times. >> Re-thinking the ammeter question. >> I had suggested using a shunt for measuring amps & Cliff is using some >> expensive unit based on measuring the magnetic field around the wire. >> With a PLC could I not just buy an inexpensive Voltage sensor with 4-20Ma output >> & an inexpensive resistance sensor with 4-20Ma output & calculate the Amps >> in the PLC program based on these 2 numbers (V/R=A) >> I believe these items are called conditioners; most are very expensive. Can't >> understand why as multimeters do a number of measuring functions & are cheap. >> Does anyone know of a suitable Voltage & resistance sensor, or is this not >> the best way to do it. Cliff, what are you using for measuring voltage, thanks. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 23:07:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 17:07:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail Message-ID: <0DA027A6-C93B-4A6C-BE20-2CAA2F363AC7@yahoo.com> Don't know what happened with the mail list recently. The mail came in with a flood & not in the correct order. Alec had tried to contact Jon, not sure if he has been successful. I had been looking in to putting up a Psub Facebook page as a temporary option, & contacting as many members as possible to join. There exists a Psub Facebook page but I am not sure of it's origins or who is on the administration of it. Pete; I had a facebook friend request from you but not sure if it is genuine as there is no profile picture or info on the facbook page. Can you confirm if it's you as there has been a lot of scams going on. Thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 23:13:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 04:13:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail working again References: <2034620100.2287243.1516680832913.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2034620100.2287243.1516680832913@mail.yahoo.com> It looks like there was a major malfunction with the mailing list which I was unaware of...thanks to AlecS for notifying me.? Email should be working again now. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 22 23:28:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:28:04 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <093187DB-3674-4864-AD11-C1CE9EA3528E@snyderemail.com> References: <19066022-B742-4BEC-8C0A-075FA71121D9@yahoo.com> <093187DB-3674-4864-AD11-C1CE9EA3528E@snyderemail.com> Message-ID: received Rick On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Got the email. > > > On Jan 21, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Testing. Haven't been able to get a return on emails for last > > 5 days. > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 00:10:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 05:10:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Email up again References: <66283183.2322026.1516684206010.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <66283183.2322026.1516684206010@mail.yahoo.com> It looks like there was a major malfunction with the mailing list which I was unaware of...thanks to AlecS for notifying me.? Email should be working again now. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 03:12:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:12:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply Message-ID: <20180123001203.FE91634@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 08:09:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:09:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply In-Reply-To: <20180123001203.FE91634@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180123001203.FE91634@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <473714154.252330.1516712970847@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Nice!? On Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 1:12:18 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???? I've got my CO2 monitor on the way as well as a converter !?? Also drilled out holes for pouring the absorbent into the scrubber and fitted rubber stoppers to close it off.? Also finished sealing project and am now putting humpty dumpty back together again ! ?Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:33:51 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I finally installed my 12 to 5 volt converter to power my CO2 meter. ?I just chopped off the AC converter and tested to see witch wire was positive and then wired it to the converter. ?Works a treat and no more AC inverter.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 09:22:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:22:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> Are you just looking for something ready-made Alan?? Voltage divider is an easy/cheap way of measuring voltage.? Shunt resistor is best way I've seen for current and there are some that measure up to 50A for $15(US). Add "arduino" or "raspberry" to your searches and you'll find stuff that will work with any PLC. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 12:04:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 06:04:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> References: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68AEC06B-3F53-4B05-A20F-B877AF6FAE71@yahoo.com> Thanks Jon, I am taking a different tack in my thinking as I am going to use lithium batteries that require a battery management system (bms). These read Volts, amps & some measure heat. I am now looking for a 36V bms that does these three & has a data transfer system that will be compatible with any of the standard inputs on a plc. I may buy shunts for the individual thrusters but then again most motor controllers monitor amps & it may be a matter of using controllers that give me feed back on this. My focus has been on buying the plc but am now finding I need to think through & finalise my electrical system in detail first. Have a talented electronics friend who had worked for Allen Bradley in the 90s. He is telling me to go with raspberry over a plc. How is your automation & monitoring system going? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/01/2018, at 3:22 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Are you just looking for something ready-made Alan? Voltage divider is an easy/cheap way of measuring voltage. Shunt resistor is best way I've seen for current and there are some that measure up to 50A for $15(US). > > Add "arduino" or "raspberry" to your searches and you'll find stuff that will work with any PLC. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 14:06:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:06:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: <68AEC06B-3F53-4B05-A20F-B877AF6FAE71@yahoo.com> References: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> <68AEC06B-3F53-4B05-A20F-B877AF6FAE71@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <302094426.2709054.1516734408738@mail.yahoo.com> My control system is pretty much complete in terms of functionality except that a new generation of sensors have come out since I started my project and so I'm going to update some things with better sensors.? I use a combination of raspberry and arduino which communicate via USB Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 14:34:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:34:20 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: <302094426.2709054.1516734408738@mail.yahoo.com> References: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> <68AEC06B-3F53-4B05-A20F-B877AF6FAE71@yahoo.com> <302094426.2709054.1516734408738@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D98CA8A-AC02-494C-889E-CC19F05F8304@yahoo.com> Jon, I have noticed in the local electronics store that where there was just an Arduino board, now there is a section with all the peripheral sensors etc. I bought an Arduino board with an SD card reader & temperature sensor for monitoring my motor temperature when testing but are now looking at doing that with the plc. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/01/2018, at 8:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > My control system is pretty much complete in terms of functionality except that a new generation of sensors have come out since I started my project and so I'm going to update some things with better sensors. I use a combination of raspberry and arduino which communicate via USB > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 14:53:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:53:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Ammeter / PLC Question In-Reply-To: <5D98CA8A-AC02-494C-889E-CC19F05F8304@yahoo.com> References: <61567541.2505931.1516717340298@mail.yahoo.com> <68AEC06B-3F53-4B05-A20F-B877AF6FAE71@yahoo.com> <302094426.2709054.1516734408738@mail.yahoo.com> <5D98CA8A-AC02-494C-889E-CC19F05F8304@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1394023911.2764584.1516737228079@mail.yahoo.com> I like the raspberry because it uses a complete operating system and opens up options for FTP, VNC, and wifi which can come in handy for various things.? When I was developing voice based alarms and warnings in addition to on-screen visual ones (remember matilda?) I hit a software snag with the arduino but got around it by offloading to the raspberry which had no problem dealing with audio. No right way or wrong way...whatever works. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 19:49:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 00:49:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yes Alan it is me References: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> I don't know much about fbook but I try to keep a minimal presence. I am weary of social media. -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1/22/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Date: Monday, January 22, 2018, 10:07 PM Don't know what happened with the mail list recently. The mail came in with a flood & not in the correct order. Alec had tried to contact Jon, not sure if he has been successful. I had been looking in to putting up a Psub Facebook page as a temporary option, & contacting as many members as possible to join. There exists a Psub Facebook page but I am not sure of it's origins or who is on the administration of it. Pete; I had a facebook friend request from you but not sure if it is genuine as there is no profile picture or info on the facbook page. Can you confirm if it's you as there has been a lot of scams going on. Thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 20:34:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:34:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yes Alan it is me In-Reply-To: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1757594265.2950367.1516757669641@mail.yahoo.com> All the PSUBS pages on FB ( i think there are three of them ) are mine, however I have to admit when I built them I did not have a good sense of how to do it and none of them came out the way I expected.? Even worse, some of them I cannot recall how to get administrative access because I forgot what email address I used to create the page, never mind the password. I have no problem with a FB presence but it needs to be done correctly.? I think I finally understand the process although I would be more than happy for help from someone whom has done it before. Jon On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:51 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I don't know much about fbook but I try to keep a minimal presence. I am weary of social media.? -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1/22/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Date: Monday, January 22, 2018, 10:07 PM Don't know what happened with the mail list recently. The mail came in with a flood & not in the correct order. Alec had tried to contact Jon, not sure if he has been successful. I had been looking in to putting up a Psub Facebook page as a temporary option, & contacting as many members as possible to join. There exists a Psub Facebook page but I am not sure of it's origins or who is on the administration of it. Pete; I had a facebook friend request from you but not sure if it is genuine as there is no profile picture or info on the facbook page. Can you confirm if it's you as there has been a lot of scams going on. Thanks. Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 22:41:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:41:48 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yes Alan it is me In-Reply-To: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1D4BA9E6-D376-41C8-8752-0876FC9AB2E5@yahoo.com> Thanks Pete, I say yes to all Psub friend requests but am weary as there is a scam about that a few of my family have been caught on. People copy your profile picture, cover photo & other information on to a Facebook page they set up under your name. They then friend request your existing friends. Some of your friends are dumb enough to say yes a second time without question & enable them to create a duplicate Facebook page & cause havoc. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/01/2018, at 1:49 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I don't know much about fbook but I try to keep a minimal presence. I am weary of social media. > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/22/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Date: Monday, January 22, 2018, 10:07 PM > > Don't know what happened with the mail list > recently. > The mail came in with a flood & not > in the correct order. > Alec had tried to contact Jon, not sure > if he has been successful. > I had been looking in to putting up a > Psub Facebook page as a temporary option, > & contacting as many members as > possible to join. > There exists a Psub Facebook page but I > am not sure of it's origins or > who is on the administration of it. > Pete; I had a facebook friend request > from you but not sure if it is genuine > as there is no profile picture or info > on the facbook page. Can you confirm > if it's you as there has been a lot of > scams going on. Thanks. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 23 22:58:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 16:58:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yes Alan it is me In-Reply-To: <1757594265.2950367.1516757669641@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1378733399.2947291.1516754991260@mail.yahoo.com> <1757594265.2950367.1516757669641@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, I am happy with the status quo, but have noticed a growing Psub activity on Facebook. I think possibly because it's easy to put up large size images & videos. It has the advantage of the "like" button where you can express appreciation of something without sending an email that everyone has to read. Also it's good to see who you are chatting with via their avatar or by going on to their Facebook page. Although it's good to see Psub activity on FB it can get lost in the mass of material in news feed. So my preference is to have a dedicated Psub FB page so that activity isn't getting split between our mail system & private FB pages. I know you have been frustrated in the past with spam filters on the mail out & having to fix these problems. Any thoughts on pros & cons of a Psub FB? Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/01/2018, at 2:34 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > All the PSUBS pages on FB ( i think there are three of them ) are mine, however I have to admit when I built them I did not have a good sense of how to do it and none of them came out the way I expected. Even worse, some of them I cannot recall how to get administrative access because I forgot what email address I used to create the page, never mind the password. > > I have no problem with a FB presence but it needs to be done correctly. I think I finally understand the process although I would be more than happy for help from someone whom has done it before. > > Jon > > > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:51 PM, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I don't know much about fbook but I try to keep a minimal presence. I am weary of social media. > -------------------------------------------- > On Mon, 1/22/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Mail > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Date: Monday, January 22, 2018, 10:07 PM > > Don't know what happened with the mail list > recently. > The mail came in with a flood & not > in the correct order. > Alec had tried to contact Jon, not sure > if he has been successful. > I had been looking in to putting up a > Psub Facebook page as a temporary option, > & contacting as many members as > possible to join. > There exists a Psub Facebook page but I > am not sure of it's origins or > who is on the administration of it. > Pete; I had a facebook friend request > from you but not sure if it is genuine > as there is no profile picture or info > on the facbook page. Can you confirm > if it's you as there has been a lot of > scams going on. Thanks. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 24 20:52:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:52:04 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply Message-ID: <20180124175204.FE8B067@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 24 21:43:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 18:43:30 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply Message-ID: <20180124184330.FEBAB44@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 24 22:09:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 21:09:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A side note - THANKS BRIAN!! Message-ID: <42FDCA3D-D82A-4C33-A903-42BEA616AF6B@snyderemail.com> Hi Folks! Greg here. Please excuse the non-sub related issue but I wanted to thank Brian for the incredible products that he creates as part of his ?day job?. As some of you might be aware, Brian used to make a living caring for bees and producing honey and bee related products at his Ojai Valley Bee Farm. Now he is focused on the products and not the honey. I have just received my order of beeswax skin cream and Royal Jelly. Both are the finest possible and my daughters and wife rave about their now radiant and supple skin. Thank you Brian for your incredible products and a job well done! You are truly my hero! That is all. Best regards Greg. > On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Never mind , I see were it says "DC power on the back of the unit. It was unclear on the power supply. BTW I'm reading 665 PPM in my kitchen. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:52:04 -0800 > > Hank, Is that 5 Volts AC power ? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:09:30 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > Nice! > > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 1:12:18 AM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I've got my CO2 monitor on the way as well as a converter ! Also drilled out holes for pouring the absorbent into the scrubber and fitted rubber stoppers to close it off. Also finished sealing project and am now putting humpty dumpty back together again ! > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:33:51 +0000 (UTC) > > Brian, > I finally installed my 12 to 5 volt converter to power my CO2 meter. I just chopped off the AC converter and tested to see witch wire was positive and then wired it to the converter. Works a treat and no more AC inverter. > Hank > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 00:33:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 21:33:19 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A side note - THANKS BRIAN!! Message-ID: <20180124213319.FE84D0A@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 06:38:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 06:38:56 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A side note - THANKS BRIAN!! In-Reply-To: <20180124213319.FE84D0A@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180124213319.FE84D0A@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: It would seem that Dave Colombo also deals in bees... is it a California thing? Haha ~ Doug S. On 1/25/18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Wow ! Thanks for the endorsement Greg ! Skin cream is great for O rings > too ! > > Brian > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] A side note - THANKS BRIAN!! > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 21:09:12 -0600 > > Hi Folks! > Greg here. Please excuse the non-sub related issue but I wanted to thank > Brian for the incredible products that he creates as part of his ?day job?. > > As some of you might be aware, Brian used to make a living caring for bees > and producing honey and bee related products at his Ojai Valley Bee Farm. > Now he is focused on the products and not the honey. > > I have just received my order of beeswax skin cream and Royal Jelly. Both > are the finest possible and my daughters and wife rave about their now > radiant and supple skin. > > Thank you Brian for your incredible products and a job well done! > > You are truly my hero! > > That is all. > Best regards > Greg. > > On Jan 24, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > >> Never mind , I see were it says "DC power on the back of the unit. It was >> unclear on the power supply. BTW I'm reading 665 PPM in my kitchen. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" >> >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply >> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:52:04 -0800 >> >> Hank, Is that 5 Volts AC power ? >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply >> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:09:30 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> Nice! >> >> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 1:12:18 AM MST, Brian Cox via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, I've got my CO2 monitor on the way as well as a converter ! >> Also drilled out holes for pouring the absorbent into the scrubber and >> fitted rubber stoppers to close it off. Also finished sealing project and >> am now putting humpty dumpty back together again ! >> >> Brian >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] co2 power supply >> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 00:33:51 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Brian, >> I finally installed my 12 to 5 volt converter to power my CO2 meter. I >> just chopped off the AC converter and tested to see witch wire was >> positive and then wired it to the converter. Works a treat and no more AC >> inverter. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 16:32:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:32:45 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Innerspace Science update Message-ID: Hello friends, Just a quick update on Innerspace Science. I've been piloting an after-school program, and its going really well. In another 4-5 weeks the first cycle will be done, and any sub owner who wishes to replicate it locally will be welcome to the materials. This is a chance to spread some good STEM motivation among young kids, and it also makes you some sub pocket money. Personally, I just find the kids' enthusiasm contagious and enjoy it as much as they do. This doesn't require advanced math and the materials have detailed speaker notes. Anyone who has build or operated their sub can consider themselves qualified to deliver it. One thing I realized pretty quickly is that a web page is a necessity yet must be accompanied by social media activity to really make any contacts. Steve McQueen stepped forward and did lots of work to get us going. We now have LinkedIn and Facebook pages, and today I made the first of what should be a steady stream of posts. There will be info about the after-school program, technology updates to the subs, upcoming expeditions, etc. - I'll try to keep it going with an update roughly each week. But to get the word out, I must ask a favor. Please like, follow, and share those pages and posts! https://www.linkedin.com/company/11404926/ https://www.facebook.com/INNERSPACESCIENCE/ Thanks, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 18:02:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:02:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Innerspace Science update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ED4A510-2462-4A3D-ABD4-4B6260130590@yahoo.com> Great page Alec, thanks. I might have told this story before, but after a few attempts at getting my subs weight right, I went to the local boat ramp to attempt my first dive. When I got there, there were about 30 school children around 10 years old sailing P class yachts. I turned the car around to go home when a man ran up to my car & asked me not to go, saying the children were going on lunch break & that they had inflatables & would act as safety crew. So I had an attentive audience & successfully did my first dive of about 30 minutes. When I came back They were all clapping me. So I guess I have done my first educational stint! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 26/01/2018, at 10:32 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hello friends, > > Just a quick update on Innerspace Science. I've been piloting an after-school program, and its going really well. In another 4-5 weeks the first cycle will be done, and any sub owner who wishes to replicate it locally will be welcome to the materials. This is a chance to spread some good STEM motivation among young kids, and it also makes you some sub pocket money. Personally, I just find the kids' enthusiasm contagious and enjoy it as much as they do. This doesn't require advanced math and the materials have detailed speaker notes. Anyone who has build or operated their sub can consider themselves qualified to deliver it. > > One thing I realized pretty quickly is that a web page is a necessity yet must be accompanied by social media activity to really make any contacts. Steve McQueen stepped forward and did lots of work to get us going. We now have LinkedIn and Facebook pages, and today I made the first of what should be a steady stream of posts. There will be info about the after-school program, technology updates to the subs, upcoming expeditions, etc. - I'll try to keep it going with an update roughly each week. But to get the word out, I must ask a favor. Please like, follow, and share those pages and posts! > > > https://www.linkedin.com/company/11404926/ > > https://www.facebook.com/INNERSPACESCIENCE/ > > > > Thanks, > Alec > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 19:40:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 00:40:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 20:18:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:18:13 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compressors Message-ID: <20180125171813.FE807CB@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Jan 25 23:39:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:39:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compressors In-Reply-To: <20180125171813.FE807CB@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20180125171813.FE807CB@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, when I bought Snoopy a few years back, I bought a little gasoline compressor from Nuvair. Pretty happy with it. It takes about 20 minutes to fill an 80 to 3000 PSI, but when we go diving up in Canada, it's well worth it to have on site. ~ Doug On 1/25/18, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi Psubbers, > I just recently realized that there is a really > great compressor company right in my own backyard. They also supply all > kinds of fittings and regulators for the underwater diving industry. They > have a light duty ( 300 fills per year) compressor for $2,700.00 and they > have more robust units for more money. The compressors come > configured with 110VAC, 220V single phase, or with a gas engine ( Honda) > . I just picked up a couple of scuba yoke connections for my > secondary ballast supply HP air. > > Here is the company: https://www.nuvair.com/ > > Brian > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 12:38:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:38:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out. I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 13:22:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 18:22:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake.? The way we recovered wasDan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand.? At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lakemaking it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test.? Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed.??Al Secor From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 13:25:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 18:25:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I have done a few tests unmanned, one with my escape pod to 638 ft and I simply had the pod positive buoyant by 50 lbs or so. ?I had weights on small ropes made ahead of time. ?I hooked the ropes to the pod and let the weights fall below the pod so the pod did not hit potential rocks. ?I just kept adding weights till it was about 5 lbs negative and lowered it on a 5\16 line. ?I went strait down no sops, for 1 hr and hauled it up with the rope. ?Gamma was tested to just under 500 feet by letting it sink to the bottom non-stop with a 1\4 in inch rope connected to a HP valve. ?When I gently pull on the rope air is sent to the MBT's and it comes up. ?That worked very well. ?Elementary was tested unmanned by lowering on a small rope same as the pod.In my opinion, one rope is all you can have. ?I had problems in the past with two ropes.Your plan is a bit complicated, things tend to not go as planned on the water. ?I would suggest to hang a weight under the sub so it does not touch down, say 5 to 10 feet. ?Also I would just send it down, that 5 min rest is of no use because if it is leaking it will happen while travelling down. ?you will feel the weight increase if it is leaking.If the weight gets stuck on the bottom I can cut it. ?I will do a 1,000 foot test in Slocan Lake as soon as the roads are good, just to be sure I can retrieve R-300 if it ends up sliding down a slope or something.Hank On Friday, January 26, 2018, 10:39:00 AM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 13:34:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 18:34:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <407168380.1140288.1516991678581@mail.yahoo.com> The problem with 2 ropes is the sub tends to rotate as it sinks causing the 2 ropes to twist around each other on the way down.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Cliff,I have done a few tests unmanned, one with my escape pod to 638 ft and I simply had the pod positive buoyant by 50 lbs or so. ?I had weights on small ropes made ahead of time. ?I hooked the ropes to the pod and let the weights fall below the pod so the pod did not hit potential rocks. ?I just kept adding weights till it was about 5 lbs negative and lowered it on a 5\16 line. ?I went strait down no sops, for 1 hr and hauled it up with the rope. ?Gamma was tested to just under 500 feet by letting it sink to the bottom non-stop with a 1\4 in inch rope connected to a HP valve. ?When I gently pull on the rope air is sent to the MBT's and it comes up. ?That worked very well. ?Elementary was tested unmanned by lowering on a small rope same as the pod.In my opinion, one rope is all you can have. ?I had problems in the past with two ropes.Your plan is a bit complicated, things tend to not go as planned on the water. ?I would suggest to hang a weight under the sub so it does not touch down, say 5 to 10 feet. ?Also I would just send it down, that 5 min rest is of no use because if it is leaking it will happen while travelling down. ?you will feel the weight increase if it is leaking.If the weight gets stuck on the bottom I can cut it. ?I will do a 1,000 foot test in Slocan Lake as soon as the roads are good, just to be sure I can retrieve R-300 if it ends up sliding down a slope or something.Hank On Friday, January 26, 2018, 10:39:00 AM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 13:41:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 12:41:12 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring > to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we > recovered was > Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over > hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good > waves on the lake > making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea > sick. > > I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an > electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the > test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a > backup plan in case it failed. > > Al Secor > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test > > Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative > thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, > 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender > vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a > bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting > up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs > positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft > to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready > to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber > so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This > location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower > the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on > station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, > we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in > water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all > the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, > his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us > real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will > then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop > we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed > to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We > will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat > into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the > decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to > automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on > the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can > retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test > dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if > a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to > dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow > lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. > If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need > to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a > salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know > where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to > is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface > inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft > to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. > > For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, > I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do > differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned > test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up > and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they > recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about > the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) > > Still lots of details to sort out. > > I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but > have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton > Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 13:47:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 18:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1567702558.1130885.1516992470072@mail.yahoo.com> No real backup plan for Persistence either...I don't think the main tether would have been strong enough to hoist a flooded sub and the test depth was about 500'and we didn't have access to another sub rated for that depth.? Sounds like you have those bases pretty well covered.?Al Secor From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Thanks Al for the info.? A am aware of Alec's test apparatus.? I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC.? I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT.? I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure.? You commented that you guys?had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake.? The way we recovered wasDan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand.? At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lakemaking it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test.? Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed.??Al Secor From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 14:05:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:05:55 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great feedback hank. I really like the procedure where you hang a weight below the boat and then get negative by dropping weight on the line connected to bow lifting lug and having it slide down to the boat until it gets slightly negative. I like that fact you have one line only so no change of fowling and you also have the option of pulling the boat back up assuming the boat does not flood. I also like the idea to eliminated the incremental test stops. I agree, KISS improves chance of success. Would sit off the bottom until PLC triggered MBT blow in say at 1-5 to 2 hours. Can mitigate uncontrolled ascent to some degree by programming the PLC to stop MBT blow when the depth starts to decrease. Would still need to have the surface boat move out of way during ascent. I noted your earlier comment on bottom not being flat around the Homewood launch site. We will find a location on the lake where the bottom is flat near the 390-400 foot mark. This will mitigate the issue of the boat sliding to deeper depth. On any of your unmanned depth qualification dives, did you have a salvage plan in place the raise the boat if it flooded? If so what was it? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I have done a few tests unmanned, one with my escape pod to 638 ft and I > simply had the pod positive buoyant by 50 lbs or so. I had weights on > small ropes made ahead of time. I hooked the ropes to the pod and let the > weights fall below the pod so the pod did not hit potential rocks. I just > kept adding weights till it was about 5 lbs negative and lowered it on a > 5\16 line. I went strait down no sops, for 1 hr and hauled it up with the > rope. > Gamma was tested to just under 500 feet by letting it sink to the bottom > non-stop with a 1\4 in inch rope connected to a HP valve. When I gently > pull on the rope air is sent to the MBT's and it comes up. That worked > very well. > Elementary was tested unmanned by lowering on a small rope same as the pod. > In my opinion, one rope is all you can have. I had problems in the past > with two ropes. > Your plan is a bit complicated, things tend to not go as planned on the > water. I would suggest to hang a weight under the sub so it does not touch > down, say 5 to 10 feet. Also I would just send it down, that 5 min rest is > of no use because if it is leaking it will happen while travelling down. > you will feel the weight increase if it is leaking. > If the weight gets stuck on the bottom I can cut it. > I will do a 1,000 foot test in Slocan Lake as soon as the roads are good, > just to be sure I can retrieve R-300 if it ends up sliding down a slope or > something. > Hank > > On Friday, January 26, 2018, 10:39:00 AM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative > thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, > 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender > vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a > bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting > up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs > positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft > to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready > to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber > so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This > location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower > the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on > station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, > we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in > water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all > the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, > his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us > real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will > then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop > we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed > to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We > will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat > into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the > decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to > automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on > the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can > retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test > dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if > a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to > dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow > lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. > If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need > to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a > salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know > where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to > is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface > inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft > to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. > > For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, > I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do > differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned > test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up > and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they > recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about > the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) > > Still lots of details to sort out. > > I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but > have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton > Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 14:33:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 08:33:55 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cliff, a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a shallower depth you could foul the rope. Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was attached. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? > > Cliff > > >> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> >> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we recovered was >> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lake >> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. >> >> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed. >> >> Al Secor >> >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >> >> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >> >> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >> >> Still lots of details to sort out. >> >> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 14:42:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 13:42:47 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good points Alan. Will end up drafting a detailed procedure. Thanks for the feedback. Would not be nice to have the boat flood and then pull then subject the tender to a 4400 lb anchor! Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:33 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support > boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a > shallower depth you could foul the rope. > Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. > At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan > that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was > attached. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do > essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little > ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve > that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will > modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup > plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal > plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? > > Cliff > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, >> >> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring >> to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we >> recovered was >> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over >> hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good >> waves on the lake >> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea >> sick. >> >> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an >> electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the >> test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a >> backup plan in case it failed. >> >> Al Secor >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >> >> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative >> thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, >> 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender >> vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a >> bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting >> up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs >> positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft >> to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready >> to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber >> so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This >> location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower >> the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on >> station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, >> we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in >> water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all >> the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, >> his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us >> real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will >> then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop >> we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed >> to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We >> will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat >> into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the >> decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to >> automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on >> the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can >> retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test >> dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if >> a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to >> dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow >> lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. >> If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need >> to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a >> salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know >> where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to >> is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface >> inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft >> to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >> >> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test >> before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do >> differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned >> test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up >> and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they >> recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about >> the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >> >> Still lots of details to sort out. >> >> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but >> have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton >> Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 14:56:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:56:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <448072393.1224221.1516996612376@mail.yahoo.com> We had that concern and ended up tying the tether to a float so that we had a visual reference as to where the sub was and it wouldn't pull the support boat downif it flooded.?Al Secor From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Good points Alan.? Will end up drafting a detailed procedure.?Thanks for the feedback.? Would not be nice to have the boat flood and then pull then subject the tender to a 4400 lb anchor!?? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:33 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the supportboat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a?shallower depth you could foul the rope.Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful.At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency planthat considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope wasattached.Cheers Alan? Sent from my iPad On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Al for the info.? A am aware of Alec's test apparatus.? I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC.? I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT.? I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure.? You commented that you guys?had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake.? The way we recovered wasDan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand.? At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lakemaking it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test.? Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed.??Al Secor From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 15:24:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:24:29 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A contingency plan could be a suitably sized lift bag with an independent inflation gas bottle, rigged to the vessel and stowed neatly collapsed on the weather deck, with any number of remote, timed, or hydrostatically activated valve actuators. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 26, 2018, 12:33, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Cliff, > a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support > boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a > shallower depth you could foul the rope. > Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. > At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan > that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was > attached. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Cliff, >>> >>> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we recovered was >>> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lake >>> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. >>> >>> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed. >>> >>> Al Secor >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >>> >>> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >>> >>> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >>> >>> Still lots of details to sort out. >>> >>> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Cliff, >>>> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >>>> Hank >>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> [Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org](mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) >>>> [http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles](http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 15:32:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 14:32:11 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sean, I am going to have to contact a local dive shop and see what they available for lift bags. OAS, how likely am I going to be able to find a local rebreather diver that would be willing to be on standby to dive to 375 ft? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > A contingency plan could be a suitably sized lift bag with an independent > inflation gas bottle, rigged to the vessel and stowed neatly collapsed on > the weather deck, with any number of remote, timed, or hydrostatically > activated valve actuators. > > Sean > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 26, 2018, 12:33, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Cliff, > a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support > boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a > shallower depth you could foul the rope. > Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. > At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan > that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was > attached. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do > essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little > ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve > that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will > modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup > plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal > plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? > > Cliff > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, >> >> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring >> to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we >> recovered was >> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over >> hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good >> waves on the lake >> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea >> sick. >> >> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an >> electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the >> test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a >> backup plan in case it failed. >> >> Al Secor >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >> >> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative >> thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, >> 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender >> vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a >> bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting >> up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs >> positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft >> to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready >> to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber >> so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This >> location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower >> the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on >> station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, >> we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in >> water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all >> the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, >> his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us >> real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will >> then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop >> we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed >> to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We >> will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat >> into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the >> decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to >> automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on >> the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can >> retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test >> dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if >> a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to >> dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow >> lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. >> If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need >> to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a >> salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know >> where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to >> is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface >> inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft >> to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >> >> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test >> before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do >> differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned >> test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up >> and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they >> recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about >> the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >> >> Still lots of details to sort out. >> >> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but >> have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton >> Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 15:45:33 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:45:33 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8Q11MUHh9pChbrhgaRNbYnneqQ8ZHkE1shhXCaCw2JTFLrzPB8nlt88mVVCsCOYrfEev3UjFZi87Co_H49t357xQYfQNFJn8EheylCoXrAQ=@protonmail.com> Rebreather isn't strictly necessary. A short dive to 375 fsw is perfectly viable on open circuit. That is a trimix dive though, necessitating accelerated staged decompression using additional gases, and in any case should not be solo, but rather a team dive on SCUBA, or should be surface supplied using commercial protocol (1 primary diver + 1 standby). You might find someone nearby to volunteer, but it would have to be on a volunteer basis. As soon as you pay someone to do it, you run afoul of commercial diving regulations, and the requirements get onerous once you're into heliox depths. Dive shops are unlikely to carry 4000 lb bags. Check out subsalve.com. I think you can find bags for rent, and then there is always the DIY solution. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On Jan 26, 2018, 13:32, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sean, I am going to have to contact a local dive shop and see what they available for lift bags. > > OAS, how likely am I going to be able to find a local rebreather diver that would be willing to be on standby to dive to 375 ft? > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> A contingency plan could be a suitably sized lift bag with an independent inflation gas bottle, rigged to the vessel and stowed neatly collapsed on the weather deck, with any number of remote, timed, or hydrostatically activated valve actuators. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 26, 2018, 12:33, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Cliff, >>> a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support >>> boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a >>> shallower depth you could foul the rope. >>> Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. >>> At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan >>> that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was >>> attached. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cliff, >>>>> >>>>> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we recovered was >>>>> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good waves on the lake >>>>> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea sick. >>>>> >>>>> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a backup plan in case it failed. >>>>> >>>>> Al Secor >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >>>>> >>>>> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >>>>> >>>>> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >>>>> >>>>> Still lots of details to sort out. >>>>> >>>>> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Cliff, >>>>>> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> [Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org](mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) >>>>>> [http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles](http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles) >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 15:55:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:55:01 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No backup plan, but at least if Snoopy flooded the autopilot would vent the MBTs at the first sign of water in the bilges so if the flooding was not sudden she would come up. The autopilot vents MBT based on either of two signals; the timer going off or a hardware store flood detector doing the same. Best, Alec On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do > essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little > ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve > that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will > modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup > plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal > plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? > > Cliff > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, >> >> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are referring >> to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The way we >> recovered was >> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over >> hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good >> waves on the lake >> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea >> sick. >> >> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an >> electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the >> test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a >> backup plan in case it failed. >> >> Al Secor >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >> >> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative >> thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, >> 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender >> vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a >> bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting >> up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs >> positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft >> to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready >> to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber >> so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This >> location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower >> the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on >> station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, >> we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in >> water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all >> the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, >> his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us >> real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will >> then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop >> we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed >> to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We >> will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat >> into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the >> decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to >> automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on >> the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can >> retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test >> dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if >> a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to >> dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow >> lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. >> If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need >> to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a >> salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know >> where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to >> is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface >> inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft >> to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >> >> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test >> before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do >> differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned >> test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up >> and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they >> recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about >> the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >> >> Still lots of details to sort out. >> >> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but >> have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton >> Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >> >> Cliff >> >> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >> Hank >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 16:00:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 21:00:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1799478229.1163402.1517000456331@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff,I do have a plan in the event Gamma ? flooded. ?I would use Elementary 3000 to connect a line to Gamma and use my barge with the winch to recover it. ?I wouldn't spend much time planning for failure, if it floods, the damage is done and there is no rush to retrieve it. ?I always take a GPS location before I start and record it on paper. ?You can return a month later and it will still be there. ?Hank ? On Friday, January 26, 2018, 12:06:13 PM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Great feedback hank.? I really like the procedure where you hang a weight below the boat and then get negative by dropping weight on the line connected to bow lifting lug and having it slide down to the boat until it gets slightly negative.? I like that fact you have one line only so no change of fowling and you also have the option of pulling the boat back up assuming the boat does not flood.?? I also like the idea to eliminated the incremental test stops.? I agree, KISS improves chance of success.??Would sit off the bottom until PLC triggered MBT blow in say at 1-5 to 2 hours.? Can mitigate uncontrolled ascent to some degree by programming the PLC to stop MBT blow when the depth starts to decrease.? Would still need to have the surface boat move out of way during ascent.? I noted your earlier comment on bottom not being flat around the Homewood launch site.? We will find a location on the lake where the bottom is flat? near the 390-400 foot mark.? This will mitigate the issue of the boat sliding to deeper depth.? On any of your unmanned depth qualification dives, did you have a salvage plan in place the raise the boat if it flooded?? If so what was it? Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,I have done a few tests unmanned, one with my escape pod to 638 ft and I simply had the pod positive buoyant by 50 lbs or so.? I had weights on small ropes made ahead of time.? I hooked the ropes to the pod and let the weights fall below the pod so the pod did not hit potential rocks.? I just kept adding weights till it was about 5 lbs negative and lowered it on a 5\16 line.? I went strait down no sops, for 1 hr and hauled it up with the rope. ?Gamma was tested to just under 500 feet by letting it sink to the bottom non-stop with a 1\4 in inch rope connected to a HP valve.? When I gently pull on the rope air is sent to the MBT's and it comes up.? That worked very well. ?Elementary was tested unmanned by lowering on a small rope same as the pod.In my opinion, one rope is all you can have.? I had problems in the past with two ropes.Your plan is a bit complicated, things tend to not go as planned on the water.? I would suggest to hang a weight under the sub so it does not touch down, say 5 to 10 feet.? Also I would just send it down, that 5 min rest is of no use because if it is leaking it will happen while travelling down. ?you will feel the weight increase if it is leaking.If the weight gets stuck on the bottom I can cut it. ?I will do a 1,000 foot test in Slocan Lake as soon as the roads are good, just to be sure I can retrieve R-300 if it ends up sliding down a slope or something.Hank On Friday, January 26, 2018, 10:39:00 AM MST, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative thoughts.? The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, 2018 as you know,?with Homewood Ca. as the base.? We will use a tender vessel that will setup over the dive site.? We will find a dive site with a bottom at?a little past my?max test depth of?375 ft.? I plan on ballasting up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs positive.? I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked?every 10ft ?to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport.? This location is just above the CG/CB of the boat.? Boat crew will slowly lower the boat until reaches the first depth station at?75 ft. We will stay on station for 5 minutes.? At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in water and follow boat to? 75ft stop.?Gamma will be monitoring the dive all the way and down and back up.? Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us real time video feed on the surface which would be great.? The boat will then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft).? At each depth stop we will stay on station for 5 minutes.? If all looks good we will proceed to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat into a positive buoyant state.? Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the decent and ascent.? As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive.? The PLC on the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test dive.? I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if a?local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to dive to 375 ft.? We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need to see if can? locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a salvage mode.? We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know where to get one if the test fails.? The maximum depth the boat has been to is 160 ft last year.? If the unmanned test is successful, and surface inspection reveals?no surprises,?then I will take the boat down to 300 ft to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do differently.? I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub?unmanned test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy?? I don't remember how they recovered.? I remember the test was successful.? I am not to worried about the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) Still lots of details to sort out.? I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but have you done the unmanned test on her?? Also after rebuilding Nekton Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her?? If so how did you do it? Cliff On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff,How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? ?Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 16:49:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:49:40 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <8Q11MUHh9pChbrhgaRNbYnneqQ8ZHkE1shhXCaCw2JTFLrzPB8nlt88mVVCsCOYrfEev3UjFZi87Co_H49t357xQYfQNFJn8EheylCoXrAQ=@protonmail.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> <8Q11MUHh9pChbrhgaRNbYnneqQ8ZHkE1shhXCaCw2JTFLrzPB8nlt88mVVCsCOYrfEev3UjFZi87Co_H49t357xQYfQNFJn8EheylCoXrAQ=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: thanks for info. On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:45 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Rebreather isn't strictly necessary. A short dive to 375 fsw is perfectly > viable on open circuit. That is a trimix dive though, necessitating > accelerated staged decompression using additional gases, and in any case > should not be solo, but rather a team dive on SCUBA, or should be surface > supplied using commercial protocol (1 primary diver + 1 standby). You might > find someone nearby to volunteer, but it would have to be on a volunteer > basis. As soon as you pay someone to do it, you run afoul of commercial > diving regulations, and the requirements get onerous once you're into > heliox depths. > > Dive shops are unlikely to carry 4000 lb bags. Check out subsalve.com. I > think you can find bags for rent, and then there is always the DIY solution. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On Jan 26, 2018, 13:32, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Sean, I am going to have to contact a local dive shop and see what they > available for lift bags. > > OAS, how likely am I going to be able to find a local rebreather diver > that would be willing to be on standby to dive to 375 ft? > > Cliff > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:24 PM, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> A contingency plan could be a suitably sized lift bag with an independent >> inflation gas bottle, rigged to the vessel and stowed neatly collapsed on >> the weather deck, with any number of remote, timed, or hydrostatically >> activated valve actuators. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On Jan 26, 2018, 12:33, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Cliff, >> a couple of extra thoughts are a gps system for keeping the support >> boat over the test spot. If a wind came up & moved the boat toward a >> shallower depth you could foul the rope. >> Also a support boat with a winch; just an anchor winch would be helpful. >> At 4000lb negative is she flooded, you would need a contingency plan >> that considered the effect on the support boat if the test rope was >> attached. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 27/01/2018, at 7:41 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do >> essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little >> ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve >> that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will >> modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup >> plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal >> plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Cliff, >>> >>> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are >>> referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The >>> way we recovered was >>> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over >>> hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good >>> waves on the lake >>> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea >>> sick. >>> >>> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an >>> electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the >>> test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a >>> backup plan in case it failed. >>> >>> Al Secor >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >>> >>> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative >>> thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, >>> 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender >>> vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a >>> bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting >>> up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs >>> positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft >>> to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready >>> to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber >>> so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This >>> location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower >>> the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on >>> station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, >>> we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in >>> water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all >>> the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, >>> his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us >>> real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will >>> then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop >>> we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed >>> to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We >>> will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat >>> into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the >>> decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to >>> automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on >>> the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can >>> retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test >>> dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if >>> a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to >>> dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow >>> lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. >>> If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need >>> to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a >>> salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know >>> where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to >>> is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface >>> inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft >>> to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >>> >>> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test >>> before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do >>> differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned >>> test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up >>> and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they >>> recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about >>> the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >>> >>> Still lots of details to sort out. >>> >>> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but >>> have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton >>> Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, >>> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >>> Hank >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 16:50:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:50:57 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <927807945.1127035.1516990963973@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alec. On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > No backup plan, but at least if Snoopy flooded the autopilot would vent > the MBTs at the first sign of water in the bilges so if the flooding was > not sudden she would come up. The autopilot vents MBT based on either of > two signals; the timer going off or a hardware store flood detector doing > the same. > > Best, > Alec > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Al for the info. A am aware of Alec's test apparatus. I can do >> essentially the same thing with my PLC. I would just have to put a little >> ladder logic in for the test that has a timer that opens the solenoid valve >> that blow my MBT. I want to hear what has worked for others then I will >> modify the procedure. You commented that you guys had no formal backup >> plan if Snoopy flooded, what about with Persistence, did you have formal >> plan to recover the boat if it flooded and if so what was it? >> >> Cliff >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Cliff, >>> >>> The other unmanned test where the lines got fouled that you are >>> referring to is when I helped Dan H. test Persistence in Seneca Lake. The >>> way we recovered was >>> Dan and I brute force hauled the sub up by the line pulling had over >>> hand. At the time, the weather had picked up and there were pretty good >>> waves on the lake >>> making it pretty challenging with everyone else on the boat getting sea >>> sick. >>> >>> I also helped Alec but he had a pretty neat method where he had an >>> electric timer with solenoid valve which blew ballast at the end of the >>> test. Fortunately it worked like a dream since I don't believe he had a >>> backup plan in case it failed. >>> >>> Al Secor >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 26, 2018 12:39 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test >>> >>> Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative >>> thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, >>> 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender >>> vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a >>> bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting >>> up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs >>> positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft >>> to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready >>> to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber >>> so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This >>> location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower >>> the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on >>> station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, >>> we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in >>> water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all >>> the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, >>> his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us >>> real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will >>> then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop >>> we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed >>> to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We >>> will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat >>> into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the >>> decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to >>> automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on >>> the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can >>> retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test >>> dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if >>> a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to >>> dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow >>> lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. >>> If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need >>> to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a >>> salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know >>> where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to >>> is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface >>> inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft >>> to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. >>> >>> For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test >>> before, I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do >>> differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned >>> test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up >>> and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they >>> recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about >>> the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) >>> >>> Still lots of details to sort out. >>> >>> I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but >>> have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton >>> Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Cliff, >>> How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? >>> Hank >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Jan 26 16:55:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 15:55:25 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] deep test In-Reply-To: <1799478229.1163402.1517000456331@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1728999095.643322.1516927235545.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1728999095.643322.1516927235545@mail.yahoo.com> <528399084.1055978.1516991114299@mail.yahoo.com> <1799478229.1163402.1517000456331@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's true but it would be another long trip from Texas. Cliff On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 3:00 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > I do have a plan in the event Gamma flooded. I would use Elementary > 3000 to connect a line to Gamma and use my barge with the winch to recover > it. > I wouldn't spend much time planning for failure, if it floods, the damage > is done and there is no rush to retrieve it. I always take a GPS location > before I start and record it on paper. You can return a month later and it > will still be there. > Hank > > > > On Friday, January 26, 2018, 12:06:13 PM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Great feedback hank. I really like the procedure where you hang a weight > below the boat and then get negative by dropping weight on the line > connected to bow lifting lug and having it slide down to the boat until it > gets slightly negative. I like that fact you have one line only so no > change of fowling and you also have the option of pulling the boat back up > assuming the boat does not flood. I also like the idea to eliminated the > incremental test stops. I agree, KISS improves chance of success. Would > sit off the bottom until PLC triggered MBT blow in say at 1-5 to 2 hours. > Can mitigate uncontrolled ascent to some degree by programming the PLC to > stop MBT blow when the depth starts to decrease. Would still need to have > the surface boat move out of way during ascent. I noted your earlier > comment on bottom not being flat around the Homewood launch site. We will > find a location on the lake where the bottom is flat near the 390-400 foot > mark. This will mitigate the issue of the boat sliding to deeper depth. > > On any of your unmanned depth qualification dives, did you have a salvage > plan in place the raise the boat if it flooded? If so what was it? > > Cliff > > > > On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:25 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, > I have done a few tests unmanned, one with my escape pod to 638 ft and I > simply had the pod positive buoyant by 50 lbs or so. I had weights on > small ropes made ahead of time. I hooked the ropes to the pod and let the > weights fall below the pod so the pod did not hit potential rocks. I just > kept adding weights till it was about 5 lbs negative and lowered it on a > 5\16 line. I went strait down no sops, for 1 hr and hauled it up with the > rope. > Gamma was tested to just under 500 feet by letting it sink to the bottom > non-stop with a 1\4 in inch rope connected to a HP valve. When I gently > pull on the rope air is sent to the MBT's and it comes up. That worked > very well. > Elementary was tested unmanned by lowering on a small rope same as the pod. > In my opinion, one rope is all you can have. I had problems in the past > with two ropes. > Your plan is a bit complicated, things tend to not go as planned on the > water. I would suggest to hang a weight under the sub so it does not touch > down, say 5 to 10 feet. Also I would just send it down, that 5 min rest is > of no use because if it is leaking it will happen while travelling down. > you will feel the weight increase if it is leaking. > If the weight gets stuck on the bottom I can cut it. > I will do a 1,000 foot test in Slocan Lake as soon as the roads are good, > just to be sure I can retrieve R-300 if it ends up sliding down a slope or > something. > Hank > > On Friday, January 26, 2018, 10:39:00 AM MST, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Hank, I have not worked the details yet but I can give you my tentative > thoughts. The location of the test will be Lake Tahoe in Ca on June 25-29, > 2018 as you know, with Homewood Ca. as the base. We will use a tender > vessel that will setup over the dive site. We will find a dive site with a > bottom at a little past my max test depth of 375 ft. I plan on ballasting > up the boat so that when the MBT are flooded, the boat is about 20 lbs > positive. I will then attach a 400 ft line that has been marked every 10ft > to the bow lifting lug. When we are ready to do the test and you are ready > to submerge Gamma, I will add 25 lbs of lead ballast wrapped up in rubber > so it will not damage the boat on a line just aft of the viewport. This > location is just above the CG/CB of the boat. Boat crew will slowly lower > the boat until reaches the first depth station at 75 ft. We will stay on > station for 5 minutes. At any point if the bow line starts to add weight, > we will abort the test and pull the boat up immediately. Divers will be in > water and follow boat to 75ft stop. Gamma will be monitoring the dive all > the way and down and back up. Also, if Craig Busell can make this date, > his Phantom T4 ROV will also be monitoring/logging the dive and giving us > real time video feed on the surface which would be great. The boat will > then be lowered in 20% of test depth increments (75ft). At each depth stop > we will stay on station for 5 minutes. If all looks good we will proceed > to the maximum test depth of 375ft where we will stay for 30 minutes. We > will then pull the 20 lb weight off the boat which should change the boat > into a positive buoyant state. Gamma and the Phantom will monitor the > decent and ascent. As a back up, the PLC on the boat will be programmed to > automatically blow MBT at 2 hours from the start of the dive. The PLC on > the R300 will have logging turned on so at the end of the dive I can > retrieve the memory card to interrogate all boat systems during the test > dive. I will look into a number of backup steps including seeing if > a local dive shop has a diver with a rebreather that would be willing to > dive to 375 ft. We will make sure we have some kind of harness on the bow > lifting lug that gamma can attach to in case we need her to lift the boat. > If the boat floods, the weight will be 4400 lbs in the water so will need > to see if can locate a lifting bag large enough to lift the boat in a > salvage mode. We would not bring the lifting bag to the site but just know > where to get one if the test fails. The maximum depth the boat has been to > is 160 ft last year. If the unmanned test is successful, and surface > inspection reveals no surprises, then I will take the boat down to 300 ft > to establish the maximum operating depth of the boat. > > For those of you that have gone through this type of unmanned test before, > I would welcome feedback. What worked for you and what you would do > differently. I can't remember which boat but I remember one psub unmanned > test dive using a similar methodology in which the two line got wrapped up > and fowled. Alec, was this you with Snoopy? I don't remember how they > recovered. I remember the test was successful. I am not to worried about > the test as the crush depth is 1100 ft (in theory!) > > Still lots of details to sort out. > > I know you tested Elementary 300 pressure hull in a pressure vessel but > have you done the unmanned test on her? Also after rebuilding Nekton > Gamma, have you done an unmanned test of her? If so how did you do it? > > Cliff > > On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 6:40 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Cliff, > How are you planning to lower R-300 and how are you retrieving it? > Hank > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 28 02:36:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 23:36:21 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test Message-ID: <20180127233621.FE84936@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 28 03:27:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 21:27:40 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test Message-ID: Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them in the threads of other emails. Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 28 12:56:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 17:56:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test References: <2119149159.640643.1517162190730.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2119149159.640643.1517162190730@mail.yahoo.com> Testing anyone there?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Jan 28 19:13:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 19:13:34 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? Message-ID: Hi everyone, Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks and shipping perhaps? Best, Alec -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 16:13:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 13:13:08 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alex, do you have any photos. I might be able to use them. On Jan 29, 2018 12:58 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to > get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. > There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends > of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the > cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the > cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to > prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 > lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks > on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks > and shipping perhaps? > > Best, > Alec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 17:16:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (k6fee via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:16:03 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test Message-ID: <201801300316.w0U3GDVi001570@whoweb.com> Yep.... Keith T. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: 1/28/18 9:56 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] test Testing anyone there?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 17:37:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:37:22 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video Message-ID: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 18:30:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video In-Reply-To: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <801991248.1511953.1517268607987@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I think you will need a layer of foam on top of the absorbent to compact the material and also to prevent air flow from concentrating over the top of the media bed. ?Its that pesky "path of least resistance "rule. ?I could be wrong, but a CO2 level test in the sub will tell the story.?Hank On Monday, January 29, 2018, 3:37:35 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Psubbers,????????????????????????? Made a little video of how my scrubber functions:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njurobB1y4A&t=436s???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 18:30:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video In-Reply-To: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <801991248.1511953.1517268607987@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I think you will need a layer of foam on top of the absorbent to compact the material and also to prevent air flow from concentrating over the top of the media bed. ?Its that pesky "path of least resistance "rule. ?I could be wrong, but a CO2 level test in the sub will tell the story.?Hank On Monday, January 29, 2018, 3:37:35 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Psubbers,????????????????????????? Made a little video of how my scrubber functions:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njurobB1y4A&t=436s???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 18:30:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video In-Reply-To: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180129143722.FEB99EE@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <801991248.1511953.1517268607987@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,I think you will need a layer of foam on top of the absorbent to compact the material and also to prevent air flow from concentrating over the top of the media bed. ?Its that pesky "path of least resistance "rule. ?I could be wrong, but a CO2 level test in the sub will tell the story.?Hank On Monday, January 29, 2018, 3:37:35 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Psubbers,????????????????????????? Made a little video of how my scrubber functions:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njurobB1y4A&t=436s???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 19:16:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:16:52 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi David, Certainly, but could you send me your email pls? Mine is alecsmyth at gmail.com. The email list hides our addresses. Thanks, Alec On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:13 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alex, do you have any photos. I might be able to use them. > > On Jan 29, 2018 12:58 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> >> Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to >> get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. >> There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends >> of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the >> cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the >> cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to >> prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 >> lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks >> on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks >> and shipping perhaps? >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 20:31:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:31:52 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video Message-ID: <20180129173152.FEBA0E7@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 20:38:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:38:45 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video Message-ID: <20180129173845.FEBA0B2@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: never wrong.gif Type: image/gif Size: 73470 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Jan 29 21:11:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 02:11:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video In-Reply-To: <20180129173152.FEBA0E7@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180129173152.FEBA0E7@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1897031169.1594828.1517278263159@mail.yahoo.com> So you intend to fill it further, I see. ?Nice cartoon LOLHank On Monday, January 29, 2018, 6:32:05 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: When it's filled all the way to the top the distance to the mesh is actually less than it is to the upper level of the Sofnolime. --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 Scrubber - video Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:30:07 +0000 (UTC) Brian,I think you will need a layer of foam on top of the absorbent to compact the material and also to prevent air flow from concentrating over the top of the media bed. ?Its that pesky "path of least resistance "rule. ?I could be wrong, but a CO2 level test in the sub will tell the story.?Hank On Monday, January 29, 2018, 3:37:35 PM MST, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Psubbers,????????????????????????? Made a little video of how my scrubber functions:?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njurobB1y4A&t=436s???Brian?_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 04:54:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:54:34 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: argh, I just bought some stainless ones almost the same size! typical.....! On 29 January 2018 at 00:13, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to get > rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. There's > 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends of the > cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the cylinder > are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the cylinder > to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to prevent > burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 lbs of > buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks on a > K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks and > shipping perhaps? > > Best, > Alec > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 11:14:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 11:14:59 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180130161459.L7VIF.12646.root@cdptpa-web13> Alec, depending on my place in the queue I would be interested in 4. My thought is for future K-250 saddle tanks. Thanks, Steve ---- Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi David, > > Certainly, but could you send me your email pls? Mine is alecsmyth at gmail.com. > The email list hides our addresses. > > > Thanks, > Alec > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:13 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi Alex, do you have any photos. I might be able to use them. > > > > On Jan 29, 2018 12:58 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> > >> Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to > >> get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. > >> There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends > >> of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the > >> cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the > >> cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to > >> prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 > >> lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks > >> on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks > >> and shipping perhaps? > >> > >> Best, > >> Alec > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 11:47:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 11:47:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: <20180130161459.L7VIF.12646.root@cdptpa-web13> References: <20180130161459.L7VIF.12646.root@cdptpa-web13> Message-ID: Sure! Shall I get a quote on shipping? Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 30, 2018, at 11:14 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec, depending on my place in the queue I would be interested in 4. My thought is for future K-250 saddle tanks. > Thanks, > Steve > > ---- Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hi David, >> >> Certainly, but could you send me your email pls? Mine is alecsmyth at gmail.com. >> The email list hides our addresses. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:13 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alex, do you have any photos. I might be able to use them. >>> >>> On Jan 29, 2018 12:58 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to >>>> get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. >>>> There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends >>>> of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the >>>> cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the >>>> cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to >>>> prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 >>>> lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks >>>> on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks >>>> and shipping perhaps? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Alec >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 11:58:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 11:58:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Small ballast tanks anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180130165842.1IFFJ.13126.root@cdptpa-web13> Sure! Thanks, Steve ---- Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sure! Shall I get a quote on shipping? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 30, 2018, at 11:14 AM, Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Alec, depending on my place in the queue I would be interested in 4. My thought is for future K-250 saddle tanks. > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > ---- Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Hi David, > >> > >> Certainly, but could you send me your email pls? Mine is alecsmyth at gmail.com. > >> The email list hides our addresses. > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Alec > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:13 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Alex, do you have any photos. I might be able to use them. > >>> > >>> On Jan 29, 2018 12:58 PM, "Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles" < > >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi everyone, > >>>> > >>>> Due to a design change in Shackleton, I've got a dozen aluminum tanks to > >>>> get rid of. They're good quality, originally off a military vehicle. > >>>> There's 1/2" NPT nozzles at both ends on the heads as well as at the ends > >>>> of the cylinder. I have the end cap nipples plugged and the ones on the > >>>> cylinder are for the air to escape. Also I welded an aluminum pipe into the > >>>> cylinder to allow venting and flooding, and which acts as a downspout to > >>>> prevent burping. These tanks are 9.5" in diameter, 28" long, and provide 68 > >>>> lbs of buoyancy each. I can see them being used as auxiliary saddle tanks > >>>> on a K250, or a raft MBT built up from several small tanks. Twenty bucks > >>>> and shipping perhaps? > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Alec > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >>> > >>> > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 19:14:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 19:14:49 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. > Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them > in the threads of other emails. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 20:16:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Steve McQueen via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 20:16:16 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20180131011616.ZCPAT.46741.root@cdptpa-web09> Hello Doug! I see your email. Thanks, Steve ---- Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this > email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. > > On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. > > Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them > > in the threads of other emails. > > Alan > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 20:21:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:21:20 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug, thanks for the concern. A few of us weren't getting mail but it started up again. One of my emails didn't make it back but it was mainly addressed to Cliff. This seems to be happening frequently. I did mention the facebook option to Jon & on a previous occasion he had been positive about taking the mail over to facebook. He had been frustrated himself about having to fix it all the time because of anti spam initiatives. I don't like to push things though as I am not sure where Jon is at. Alec said he was struggling through his second year after his wife passed on. I haven't been able to locate Jon on facebook. I hope he is not feeling excluded. What are you up to study wise etc? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/01/2018, at 1:14 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this > email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. > > On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. >> Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them >> in the threads of other emails. >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 20:32:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:32:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D22681F-17DB-4D6A-AADF-C1D063FAA5CF@yahoo.com> Sorry Doug, thought that had come in on my private email. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/01/2018, at 2:21 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Doug, > thanks for the concern. > A few of us weren't getting mail but it started up again. > One of my emails didn't make it back but it was mainly addressed to Cliff. > This seems to be happening frequently. I did mention the facebook option > to Jon & on a previous occasion he had been positive about taking the mail > over to facebook. He had been frustrated himself about having to fix it all > the time because of anti spam initiatives. > I don't like to push things though as I am not sure where Jon is at. Alec said > he was struggling through his second year after his wife passed on. > I haven't been able to locate Jon on facebook. I hope he is not feeling excluded. > What are you up to study wise etc? > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 31/01/2018, at 1:14 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this >> email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. >> >> On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. >>> Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them >>> in the threads of other emails. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Jan 30 22:31:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 22:31:11 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: <9D22681F-17DB-4D6A-AADF-C1D063FAA5CF@yahoo.com> References: <9D22681F-17DB-4D6A-AADF-C1D063FAA5CF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Okay, thanks for letting me know I've been getting through! Not been up to too much lately (PSUB wise, anyway) just been busy catching up from the holidays! Snoopy is safe and cozy in the garage up here in PA while a nasty winter passes through. Can't wait for the coming spring / summer diving season. I'm all for switching over to something better than the current email list. Didn't we have a PSUBS forum at one time (on the site)? Can't remember... It might be worth it to switch over to an official forum (like to build one on simple machines). I'm not good with that sort of thing, but if anyone wants to give it a go, I'll provide some financial backing. ~ Doug S. https://www.simplemachines.org/ On 1/30/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Sorry Doug, > thought that had come in on my private email. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 31/01/2018, at 2:21 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi Doug, >> thanks for the concern. >> A few of us weren't getting mail but it started up again. >> One of my emails didn't make it back but it was mainly addressed to >> Cliff. >> This seems to be happening frequently. I did mention the facebook option >> to Jon & on a previous occasion he had been positive about taking the >> mail >> over to facebook. He had been frustrated himself about having to fix it >> all >> the time because of anti spam initiatives. >> I don't like to push things though as I am not sure where Jon is at. Alec >> said >> he was struggling through his second year after his wife passed on. >> I haven't been able to locate Jon on facebook. I hope he is not feeling >> excluded. >> What are you up to study wise etc? >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 31/01/2018, at 1:14 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this >>> email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. >>> >>> On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>>> Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. >>>> Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them >>>> in the threads of other emails. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Jan 31 00:33:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 18:33:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Test In-Reply-To: References: <9D22681F-17DB-4D6A-AADF-C1D063FAA5CF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6780686F-D462-45EF-8FF2-CE374541823A@yahoo.com> Hi Doug, we have a good web site with the links to projects, white papers, members directory etc, but the email system has been letting us down a bit. None of the Psub members seem to operate on the forum. That is where I first made contact with Psubs. After posting a question someone told me to go on the email list as that's where things were happening. I still find the forum a bit confusing. You would need email notification of activity on the forum or you would have to check on it every day; & I assume you would then have the same email problems that we encounter from time to time. See how we get on, it may be a momentary glitch! I like the facebook format as people have avatars so you can see who you are chatting with. My memory isn't the greatest & a picture helps. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31/01/2018, at 4:31 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Okay, thanks for letting me know I've been getting through! > > Not been up to too much lately (PSUB wise, anyway) just been busy > catching up from the holidays! Snoopy is safe and cozy in the garage > up here in PA while a nasty winter passes through. Can't wait for the > coming spring / summer diving season. > > I'm all for switching over to something better than the current email > list. Didn't we have a PSUBS forum at one time (on the site)? Can't > remember... > > It might be worth it to switch over to an official forum (like to > build one on simple machines). I'm not good with that sort of thing, > but if anyone wants to give it a go, I'll provide some financial > backing. ~ Doug S. > > https://www.simplemachines.org/ > > > > On 1/30/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Sorry Doug, >> thought that had come in on my private email. >> Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 31/01/2018, at 2:21 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Doug, >>> thanks for the concern. >>> A few of us weren't getting mail but it started up again. >>> One of my emails didn't make it back but it was mainly addressed to >>> Cliff. >>> This seems to be happening frequently. I did mention the facebook option >>> to Jon & on a previous occasion he had been positive about taking the >>> mail >>> over to facebook. He had been frustrated himself about having to fix it >>> all >>> the time because of anti spam initiatives. >>> I don't like to push things though as I am not sure where Jon is at. Alec >>> said >>> he was struggling through his second year after his wife passed on. >>> I haven't been able to locate Jon on facebook. I hope he is not feeling >>> excluded. >>> What are you up to study wise etc? >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 31/01/2018, at 1:14 PM, Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, haven't seen anything from you in a while (excepting this >>>> email). Respond if you see this message. ~ Doug S. >>>> >>>> On 1/28/18, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> wrote: >>>>> Sent out an email 12hrs ago & hasn't returned. >>>>> Have also not been receiving mail that others have, as I have seen them >>>>> in the threads of other emails. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles