From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 2 07:07:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 07:07:40 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota lower unit material In-Reply-To: References: <16317ba4d43-c8c-3687b@webjas-vae109.srv.aolmail.net> <1752012932.2567298.1525132856216@mail.yahoo.com> <1639550899.2571222.1525137516449@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: thanks ! 2018-04-30 21:57 GMT-04:00 Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > Phillipe, > here is the link to James's site that documents his K350 build. > Somewhere in the build log you should see how he has done his rotating > thrusters. > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/index.htm > I understand where you are coming from in that a welded rod on to the > thruster's penetrator would be more substantial than a threaded rod > that may unwind. > As the guys have said, watch that the magnets don't get too hot. Also most > magnets are glued on so any heat may effect the glue. > All the best. > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 1/05/2018, at 1:18 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just thread the rotating shaft so it screws into the motor, the same way > the original shaft fit into the motor. Then drill the rotating shaft for > wires and fill the void with epoxy (potting) James Franklin has a site > with very good detailed pictures that will help you. I personally have not > done this but most if not all K250's are done this way. I am sure those > that have done exactly what I mentioned will be happy to guide you. > > Hank > > On Monday, April 30, 2018, 6:30:42 PM MDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I currently build a modified version of the k-250. I want to figure how to > fit the minn kota to the rotating shaft. (both side of the sub.) > > Philippe > > 2018-04-30 20:00 GMT-04:00 hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org>: > > Phillippe, not sure what your asking? if your asking if you can weld a > fitting onto the shaft stub, I would say yes, providing you don't get the > part to hot. I am not sure why you would weld it though. You can simply > pot wires right in the stub hole, and I have two thrusters like that. You > can thread a fitting into the stub that is a penetrator. Both options work > well, but welding it will also work. Maybe you can explain what your > planning to do and why you want to weld a part on. > Hank > > On Monday, April 30, 2018, 5:24:26 PM MDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > ok it is strong enough ? > > 2018-04-30 14:04 GMT-04:00 via Personal_Submersibles org >: > > i sketched out an adapter for mine. Will screw them in with epoxy and call > it a day. > Vance > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles org > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org > > Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2018 11:36 am > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Minn Kota lower unit material > > I?d be concerned about warpage. You may need to re machine the ends? > Rick > > On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:40 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Be careful about welding to the magnet barrel. Heat will ruin the > magnets, you could submerge the barrel in water while you weld the > penetrator. > Hank > > On Sunday, April 29, 2018, 1:30:43 PM MDT, Philippe Robert via > Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Ok. thanks. I think to weld my penetrator to it. (at the place of the > original shaft) > > Philippe > 2018-04-29 15:15 GMT-04:00 Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles org >: > > I have a number of Minn Kota 101 lower units, MK part number 2886289. > While I don't have anthing from MK on materials, I tend to agree with Hank. > > 1) Main body that has the permanent magnets attached is some kind of steel. > 2) Brushed end assembly that holds the shaft bushing and lip seals is cast > aluminum (probably 6061-T6) > 3) Bow end of lower unit that holds a bearing is also cast aluminum > (probably 6061-T6) > > Cliff > > > > On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:11 PM, Philippe Robert via Personal_Submersibles > > > wrote: > > Hi, > > I have a question about Minn Kota engine Housing. What kind of steel is > made ? > > Thank you, > > > Philippe > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or g > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 3 10:26:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 15:26:06 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steel Grade Query In-Reply-To: References: <959802035.2472260.1524425705528@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All, I am reluctantly asking this as it looks like I haven't bothered to try and find out, but I can assure you all I have tried. Also appreciate there is a lot to this subject. I am trying to find a reliable source of info into getting the Modulus of Elasticity and Poisson's Ratio of common pipes so I can run it through the calculator. Tensile strength and yield info is easy to find. I need: a53 b a106 a333 a316 These are my options of pipe that I can get. Currently leaning towards a53 as the most suitable. Does anyone have a reliable source. Thanks James On 23 April 2018 at 14:33, James Frankland wrote: > thanks all > > I was just interested in 106B as I keep getting offered that. However, > ive found some other suppliers so will go with a516. We know that's ok. > > Also, I may be able to go for ABS classing or similar, so will stay on > target. > > Thanks > James > > On 23 April 2018 at 00:02, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Just to add to that - pressure vessel steels are so classed largely >> because of their fracture toughness, and not necessarily their strength. >> Heat treatment condition will play a role, but you probably want the low >> temperature rated steel if you're deviating from the approved alloys. >> >> For reference: >> >> Pressure Boundary Material Specifications >> >> Plates (2010) >> >> Plate materials of pressure boundaries, including attachments, are to >> comply with one of the following. >> >> Steel (2008): >> ABS Hull Grades E, EH32, EH36; >> U.S. Navy Grades HY-80 and HY-100 per MILS-16216; >> ASTM A516 Grades 55, 60, 65, 70; >> ASTM A537 Class 1 and 2; >> ASTM A517 Grades, A, B, E, F, J >> >> Aluminum: >> ASTM B 209 alloy 6061-T6; >> ASTM B 928 alloys 5083, 5086, 5383, 5456 (see Section 5 of these Rules) >> >> Titanium Alloys: >> ASTM B265 Grade 5 >> >> Stainless Steel: >> ASTM A240 Type 304 or 316 >> >> Acrylic Plastics (cast polymethyl methacrylate): ASME PVHO-1 and Section >> 7 of these Rules >> >> Bolts, Extrusions, Forgings, and Shapes >> >> Materials of bolts, extrusions, forgings, and shapes are to comply with a >> recognized standard at least of similar quality to the plate materials >> specified in 4/3.1 (e.g. MIL-S-23009 for HY-80 forgings, ASTM A350 LF2 or >> LF3 for forgings comparable to ASTM A516). >> >> Materials Complying with Other Standards >> >> Consideration will be given to the use of material complying with other >> recognized standards suitable for the service intended. Approval of the use >> of other materials will depend on satisfactory evaluation and approval of >> the specifications prior to construction. >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> >> On Apr 22, 2018, 13:48, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> See table below of two important steel strength parameters, ultimate >> tensile strength and tensile yield strength. At the very least, I would >> pick a steel that matches or exceeds the A516-70 spec. If you are trying >> the get the boat ABS classed., will be a pain in the butt and expensive to >> use a non-ABS approved material. If you are just trying to build a safe >> psub, pipe will work if the welding is done to code. Oil and gas industry >> uses a lot of API 5L X56 pipe so it is easy to get. >> >> I hesitated to respond this this query as there is a lot evolved to >> specifying steel. Much more than can be covered in an email. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> Tensile Strength Min Yield Strength >> Description Common Use psi Mpa psi Mpa >> ASTM(A) 516-70 Plate for Boilers and Seperators 70,300 485 37,700 260 >> A106 Gr C Seamless Pipe 70,000 483 40000 276 >> A333 Gr 6 Seamless Pipe 60,000 415 35,000 241 >> API 5L X56 Seamless Pipe 71,100 490 56,600 390 >> >> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> You can change the parameters of the calculator to give you an accurate >>> analysis of any steel. I show 1276 feet max depth for A333Gr3. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2018 9:25 AM >>> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steel Grade Query >>> >>> Hi All. >>> >>> I am purchasing battery pods for my new sub. I am attempting to get >>> 14"NB(355mm) x 98" (2500mm). Standard weight (9.52mm) >>> >>> Psubs calculator give ABS depth of 1160 feet (353m) for A516gr70 >>> >>> However, I don't seem to be able to get a516 in that for standard pipe. >>> >>> I keep getting offered A106grB or A333Gr3 or Gr6. >>> >>> 106 seems to be high temp, 333 low temp. >>> >>> Does anyone know about these and if they will be ok for battery pods. >>> >>> Its a lot cheaper to get std wt pipe than it is to get a516 custom >>> rolled...... >>> >>> >>> >>> Many thanks >>> james >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 3 13:00:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 13:00:24 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steel Grade Query In-Reply-To: References: <959802035.2472260.1524425705528@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As a general rule, modulus for steels is in the 29E6 to 31E6 psi range, and Poisson's Ratio 0.27-0.3. Sean ??????? Original Message ??????? On May 3, 2018 8:26 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hi All, > > I am reluctantly asking this as it looks like I haven't bothered to try and find out, but I can assure you all I have tried. Also appreciate there is a lot to this subject. > > I am trying to find a reliable source of info into getting the Modulus of Elasticity and Poisson's Ratio of common pipes so I can run it through the calculator. Tensile strength and yield info is easy to find. > > I need: > > a53 b > a106 > a333 > a316 > > These are my options of pipe that I can get. Currently leaning towards a53 as the most suitable. > > Does anyone have a reliable source. > Thanks > James > > On 23 April 2018 at 14:33, James Frankland wrote: > >> thanks all >> >> I was just interested in 106B as I keep getting offered that. However, ive found some other suppliers so will go with a516. We know that's ok. >> >> Also, I may be able to go for ABS classing or similar, so will stay on target. >> >> Thanks >> James >> >> On 23 April 2018 at 00:02, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> Just to add to that - pressure vessel steels are so classed largely because of their fracture toughness, and not necessarily their strength. Heat treatment condition will play a role, but you probably want the low temperature rated steel if you're deviating from the approved alloys. >>> >>> For reference: >>> >>> Pressure Boundary Material Specifications >>> >>> Plates (2010) >>> >>> Plate materials of pressure boundaries, including attachments, are to comply with one of the following. >>> >>> Steel (2008): >>> ABS Hull Grades E, EH32, EH36; >>> U.S. Navy Grades HY-80 and HY-100 per MILS-16216; >>> ASTM A516 Grades 55, 60, 65, 70; >>> ASTM A537 Class 1 and 2; >>> ASTM A517 Grades, A, B, E, F, J >>> >>> Aluminum: >>> ASTM B 209 alloy 6061-T6; >>> ASTM B 928 alloys 5083, 5086, 5383, 5456 (see Section 5 of these Rules) >>> >>> Titanium Alloys: >>> ASTM B265 Grade 5 >>> >>> Stainless Steel: >>> ASTM A240 Type 304 or 316 >>> >>> Acrylic Plastics (cast polymethyl methacrylate): ASME PVHO-1 and Section 7 of these Rules >>> >>> Bolts, Extrusions, Forgings, and Shapes >>> >>> Materials of bolts, extrusions, forgings, and shapes are to comply with a recognized standard at least of similar quality to the plate materials specified in 4/3.1 (e.g. MIL-S-23009 for HY-80 forgings, ASTM A350 LF2 or LF3 for forgings comparable to ASTM A516). >>> >>> Materials Complying with Other Standards >>> >>> Consideration will be given to the use of material complying with other recognized standards suitable for the service intended. Approval of the use of other materials will depend on satisfactory evaluation and approval of the specifications prior to construction. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2018, 13:48, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> See table below of two important steel strength parameters, ultimate tensile strength and tensile yield strength. At the very least, I would pick a steel that matches or exceeds the A516-70 spec. If you are trying the get the boat ABS classed., will be a pain in the butt and expensive to use a non-ABS approved material. If you are just trying to build a safe psub, pipe will work if the welding is done to code. Oil and gas industry uses a lot of API 5L X56 pipe so it is easy to get. >>>> >>>> I hesitated to respond this this query as there is a lot evolved to specifying steel. Much more than can be covered in an email. >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> Tensile Strength >>>> Min Yield Strength >>>> >>>> Description >>>> Common Use >>>> psi >>>> Mpa >>>> psi >>>> Mpa >>>> >>>> ASTM(A) 516-70 >>>> Plate for Boilers and Seperators >>>> 70,300 >>>> 485 >>>> 37,700 >>>> 260 >>>> >>>> A106 Gr C >>>> Seamless Pipe >>>> 70,000 >>>> 483 >>>> 40000 >>>> 276 >>>> >>>> A333 Gr 6 >>>> Seamless Pipe >>>> 60,000 >>>> 415 >>>> 35,000 >>>> 241 >>>> >>>> API 5L X56 >>>> Seamless Pipe >>>> 71,100 >>>> 490 >>>> 56,600 >>>> 390 >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:35 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can change the parameters of the calculator to give you an accurate analysis of any steel. I show 1276 feet max depth for A333Gr3. >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 9:25 AM >>>>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steel Grade Query >>>>> >>>>> Hi All. >>>>> >>>>> I am purchasing battery pods for my new sub. I am attempting to get >>>>> 14"NB(355mm) x 98" (2500mm). Standard weight (9.52mm) >>>>> >>>>> Psubs calculator give ABS depth of 1160 feet (353m) for A516gr70 >>>>> >>>>> However, I don't seem to be able to get a516 in that for standard pipe. >>>>> >>>>> I keep getting offered A106grB or A333Gr3 or Gr6. >>>>> >>>>> 106 seems to be high temp, 333 low temp. >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know about these and if they will be ok for battery pods. >>>>> >>>>> Its a lot cheaper to get std wt pipe than it is to get a516 custom rolled...... >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks >>>>> james >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 18:28:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 22:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. ?The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking. ?The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker? ?I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately. ?Any ideas?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:18:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 01:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> Depends on what radio you have Hank.? Does it have an aux out jack?? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. ?The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking. ?The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker? ?I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately. ?Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:24:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 01:24:43 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank any videos? How was the clarity this time? On Sun, May 6, 2018, 6:19 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Depends on what radio you have Hank. Does it have an aux out jack? If > so, you could add an amplified speaker to it. > > Al Secor > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test > > Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. > The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room > talking. The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am > hoping it was just the speaker? I have a head set but did not bring it > unfortunately. Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:30:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 01:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1168669874.513822.1525656653350@mail.yahoo.com> I have video but it is so murky, it is not worth boring everyone. ?The visibility was real bad, the river flowing in is brown. ?It was a good test though because my light performed great with the new shroud. ?I had about 5 feet visibility.Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:25:11 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank any videos? How was the clarity this time? On Sun, May 6, 2018, 6:19 PM Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Depends on what radio you have Hank.? Does it have an aux out jack?? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios.? The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking.? The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker?? I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately.? Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:34:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 01:34:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean. ?I did a test at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop. ?When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear ?the words, but the surface crew could hear me easily and perfectly clear. ?Its like I can send better than receive. Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Depends on what radio you have Hank.? Does it have an aux out jack?? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. ?The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking. ?The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker? ?I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately. ?Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:36:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 01:36:36 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. Message-ID: Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come. Best Regards, David Colombo SeaQuestor. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 21:54:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Gregory Snyder via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 20:54:30 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63BA7A26-DFF4-4DDA-867B-E0F0B355104F@snyderemail.com> That sounds awesome! Looking forward to sharing in your journey vicariously. Thanks for doing this! It gives the rest of us help! Best personal regards, Greg > On May 6, 2018, at 8:36 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > SeaQuestor. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 22:32:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 02:32:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1656104850.517347.1525660375142@mail.yahoo.com> Great news DavidHank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:37:08 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come.Best Regards,David ColomboSeaQuestor._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 22:40:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 02:40:52 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, what brand of comms are you running? I'm starting to do some looking. On Sun, May 6, 2018, 6:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean. I did a test > at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop. > When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear the words, but the surface crew > could hear me easily and perfectly clear. Its like I can send better than > receive. > > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Depends on what radio you have Hank. Does it have an aux out jack? If > so, you could add an amplified speaker to it. > > Al Secor > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test > > Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. > The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room > talking. The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am > hoping it was just the speaker? I have a head set but did not bring it > unfortunately. Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 22:51:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 02:51:14 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank Do you have an OTS system? PS: I was laying in the sub a couple days ago pulling wire when the 6.9 earthquake hit and it sits on a jig I built for it with rubber tires on it so I can easily move it around my shop and it scooted a little ways across the floor! Now there are 10 breakouts of lava spewing out below our house and about 10 houses that have burnt so far! So much for living in paradise ? Rick On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 3:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean. I did a test > at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop. > When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear the words, but the surface crew > could hear me easily and perfectly clear. Its like I can send better than > receive. > > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Depends on what radio you have Hank. Does it have an aux out jack? If > so, you could add an amplified speaker to it. > > Al Secor > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test > > Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. > The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room > talking. The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am > hoping it was just the speaker? I have a head set but did not bring it > unfortunately. Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 22:54:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 02:54:15 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: <1656104850.517347.1525660375142@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1656104850.517347.1525660375142@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Very exciting and best wishes to your wife. Rick On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 4:33 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Great news David > Hank > > On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:37:08 PM MDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma > County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I > am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with > treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially > be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and > the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the > hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch > rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have > permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So > stay tuned for videos to come. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > SeaQuestor. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 23:47:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 20:47:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. Message-ID: <20180506204710.21BCFB33@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 23:54:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 20:54:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Message-ID: <20180506205426.21BCFB55@m0117457.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 6 23:57:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 15:57:32 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5916D7B5-BB84-4E3E-AFAD-BA664A72F1A7@yahoo.com> Hi David, best wishes to Y. Hope she has a speedy recovery. Glad to hear the hull is underway; thought you had abandoned it for bees! Look forward to the videos. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/05/2018, at 1:36 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > SeaQuestor. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 00:09:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 16:09:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C981940-4D7C-41B3-BB93-1DC6C739E75A@yahoo.com> Rick, Thanks for the eruption update, wondered if it was near you. You would totally baffle future archaeologists if they found a submarine entombed in lava! Hope you keep safe. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 7/05/2018, at 2:51 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank > Do you have an OTS system? > PS: I was laying in the sub a couple days ago pulling wire when the 6.9 earthquake hit and it sits on a jig I built for it with rubber tires on it so I can easily move it around my shop and it scooted a little ways across the floor! Now there are 10 breakouts of lava spewing out below our house and about 10 houses that have burnt so far! So much for living in paradise ? > Rick > >> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 3:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean. I did a test at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop. When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear the words, but the surface crew could hear me easily and perfectly clear. Its like I can send better than receive. >> >> Hank >> >> >> On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Depends on what radio you have Hank. Does it have an aux out jack? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it. >> >> Al Secor >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test >> >> Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking. The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker? I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately. Any ideas? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 00:10:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 04:10:41 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: <20180506205426.21BCFB55@m0117457.ppops.net> References: <20180506205426.21BCFB55@m0117457.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian I put an emoji at the end and I guess that?s what turned up, wierd? On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 5:55 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, 6.9 is Hugh ! I've been in all the earthquakes > around Los Angeles and that is a very large quake, mind you we don't have > Lava here however ! Rick what is uD83D\uDE1C ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test > Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 02:51:14 +0000 > > Hank > Do you have an OTS system? > PS: I was laying in the sub a couple days ago pulling wire when the 6.9 > earthquake hit and it sits on a jig I built for it with rubber tires on it > so I can easily move it around my shop and it scooted a little ways across > the floor! Now there are 10 breakouts of lava spewing out below our house > and about 10 houses that have burnt so far! So much for living in paradise > \uD83D\uDE1C > Rick > > On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 3:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean. I did a test > at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop. > When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear the words, but the surface crew > could hear me easily and perfectly clear. Its like I can send better than > receive. > > Hank > > > On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > > Depends on what radio you have Hank. Does it have an aux out jack? If > so, you could add an amplified speaker to it. > > Al Secor > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test > > Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios. > The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room > talking. The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am > hoping it was just the speaker? I have a head set but did not bring it > unfortunately. Any ideas? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 00:21:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 21:21:22 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Message-ID: <20180506212122.21BD0FA7@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 06:45:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:45:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1414440372.603385.1525689941436@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I was wondering also if you were in the problem area. ?Sounds scary.Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 8:51:42 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank?Do you have an OTS system??PS: I was laying in the sub a couple days ago pulling wire when the 6.9 earthquake hit and it sits on a jig I built for it with rubber tires on it so I can easily move it around my shop and it scooted a little ways across the floor! Now there are 10 breakouts of lava spewing out below our house and about 10 houses that have burnt so far! So much for living in paradise ?Rick? On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 3:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean.? I did a test at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop.? When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear ?the words, but the surface crew could hear me easily and perfectly clear.? Its like I can send better than receive. Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Depends on what radio you have Hank.? Does it have an aux out jack?? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios.? The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking.? The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker?? I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately.? Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 06:47:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:47:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test In-Reply-To: References: <567323662.450515.1525645723850.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <567323662.450515.1525645723850@mail.yahoo.com> <292802410.497826.1525655923722@mail.yahoo.com> <178167898.495697.1525656865326@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <274100541.599870.1525690060804@mail.yahoo.com> David, my coms are original equipment made in California. ?Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 8:41:19 PM MDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,? what brand of comms are you running? I'm starting to do some looking. On Sun, May 6, 2018, 6:35 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Al, it does have a headphone jack if that is what you mean.? I did a test at home just now and the speaker in the sub works perfect in the shop.? When I am 225 feet down I can barely hear ?the words, but the surface crew could hear me easily and perfectly clear.? Its like I can send better than receive. Hank On Sunday, May 6, 2018, 7:19:04 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Depends on what radio you have Hank.? Does it have an aux out jack?? If so, you could add an amplified speaker to it.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 6:29 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] radio test Hi All, today I did a dive in a local lake to 225 feet to test my radios.? The radio clarity was just amazing, it was like we were sitting in a room talking.? The only problem was the volume in the sub was very low, I am hoping it was just the speaker?? I have a head set but did not bring it unfortunately.? Any ideas?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 10:07:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 14:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> Congrats David.? Glad to see this project getting off the ground and looking forward to following it.? Wishing your wife well with her battle. I guess I should announce that refurbishing AQUATIC (K-600) is underway also.? Currently working on modifying a 2014 aluminum boat trailer for the submarine, which is already trying my patience.? I didn't expect working on the trailer to take as much time as it has, nor cost as much as it will end up, but am satisfied that it will last for a good long time once it is finished.? Or perhaps I should say, it BETTER!!? I have consulted with some PSUBBERS privately and believe there is a need to add cross-bar members to absorb the more concentrated weight "fingerprint" of the submarine.? Seen the price of aluminum lately? Jon From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:38 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come.Best Regards,David ColomboSeaQuestor._______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 10:58:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 07 May 2018 14:58:28 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> References: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congrats Jon, make sure to video document the refurbish, it's how we live vicariously. On Mon, May 7, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congrats David. Glad to see this project getting off the ground and > looking forward to following it. Wishing your wife well with her battle. > > I guess I should announce that refurbishing AQUATIC (K-600) is underway > also. Currently working on modifying a 2014 aluminum boat trailer for the > submarine, which is already trying my patience. I didn't expect working on > the trailer to take as much time as it has, nor cost as much as it will end > up, but am satisfied that it will last for a good long time once it is > finished. Or perhaps I should say, it BETTER!! I have consulted with some > PSUBBERS privately and believe there is a need to add cross-bar members to > absorb the more concentrated weight "fingerprint" of the submarine. Seen > the price of aluminum lately? > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:38 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. > > Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma > County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I > am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with > treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially > be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and > the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the > hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch > rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have > permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So > stay tuned for videos to come. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > SeaQuestor. > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 13:29:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 07:29:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon Are you doing the aluminum welding yourself or having it done professionally? Rick On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congrats Jon, make sure to video document the refurbish, it's how we live > vicariously. > > On Mon, May 7, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Congrats David. Glad to see this project getting off the ground and >> looking forward to following it. Wishing your wife well with her battle. >> >> I guess I should announce that refurbishing AQUATIC (K-600) is underway >> also. Currently working on modifying a 2014 aluminum boat trailer for the >> submarine, which is already trying my patience. I didn't expect working on >> the trailer to take as much time as it has, nor cost as much as it will end >> up, but am satisfied that it will last for a good long time once it is >> finished. Or perhaps I should say, it BETTER!! I have consulted with some >> PSUBBERS privately and believe there is a need to add cross-bar members to >> absorb the more concentrated weight "fingerprint" of the submarine. Seen >> the price of aluminum lately? >> >> Jon >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org >> *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:38 PM >> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. >> >> Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma >> County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I >> am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with >> treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially >> be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and >> the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the >> hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch >> rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have >> permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So >> stay tuned for videos to come. >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> SeaQuestor. >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 19:53:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 23:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: References: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <818060989.918403.1525737235308@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick, Everything is bolted on this trailer, no welds...and my mods will be bolted to it as well.? I did look at getting a TIG welding machine but they are very expensive and I think for the amount of work I would have, assuming it needed welding, would be cheaper to contract it out. Jon From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. Jon Are you doing the aluminum welding yourself or having it done professionally?Rick On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congrats Jon, make sure to video document the refurbish, it's how we live vicariously. On Mon, May 7, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congrats David.? Glad to see this project getting off the ground and looking forward to following it.? Wishing your wife well with her battle. I guess I should announce that refurbishing AQUATIC (K-600) is underway also.? Currently working on modifying a 2014 aluminum boat trailer for the submarine, which is already trying my patience.? I didn't expect working on the trailer to take as much time as it has, nor cost as much as it will end up, but am satisfied that it will last for a good long time once it is finished.? Or perhaps I should say, it BETTER!!? I have consulted with some PSUBBERS privately and believe there is a need to add cross-bar members to absorb the more concentrated weight "fingerprint" of the submarine.? Seen the price of aluminum lately? Jon From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles To: personal_submersibles at psubs. org Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:38 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So stay tuned for videos to come.Best Regards,David ColomboSeaQuestor.______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 7 20:26:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 14:26:08 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. In-Reply-To: <818060989.918403.1525737235308@mail.yahoo.com> References: <51100237.665743.1525702036992@mail.yahoo.com> <818060989.918403.1525737235308@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds good Jon. Rick On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 1:53 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Everything is bolted on this trailer, no welds...and my mods will be > bolted to it as well. I did look at getting a TIG welding machine but they > are very expensive and I think for the amount of work I would have, > assuming it needed welding, would be cheaper to contract it out. > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Monday, May 7, 2018 1:32 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. > > Jon > > Are you doing the aluminum welding yourself or having it done > professionally? > Rick > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 4:58 AM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Congrats Jon, make sure to video document the refurbish, it's how we live > vicariously. > > On Mon, May 7, 2018, 7:08 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles org > wrote: > > Congrats David. Glad to see this project getting off the ground and > looking forward to following it. Wishing your wife well with her battle. > > I guess I should announce that refurbishing AQUATIC (K-600) is underway > also. Currently working on modifying a 2014 aluminum boat trailer for the > submarine, which is already trying my patience. I didn't expect working on > the trailer to take as much time as it has, nor cost as much as it will end > up, but am satisfied that it will last for a good long time once it is > finished. Or perhaps I should say, it BETTER!! I have consulted with some > PSUBBERS privately and believe there is a need to add cross-bar members to > absorb the more concentrated weight "fingerprint" of the submarine. Seen > the price of aluminum lately? > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles org > > *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs. org > *Sent:* Sunday, May 6, 2018 9:38 PM > *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] SeaQuestor project starts hull Fabrication. > > Hi all it's been an interesting road this last year, with half of Sonoma > County burned to the ground, and Wyvonne being diagnosed with cancer. But I > am busy designing new homes for the rebuild and Wy is doing well with > treatments. So here is some exciting news, the SeaQuestor will officially > be under construction tomorrow. The hull drawings have been completed and > the steel fabrication contracts agreed upon. So over the next 4-5 weeks the > hull sections should be fabricated and all of the stainless steel hatch > rings will be waterjet cut and milled. Exciting moment in history. I have > permission to film all phases of fabrication as part of my contracts. So > stay tuned for videos to come. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > SeaQuestor. > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 13:34:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 19:34:36 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Message-ID: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> Hi All, Material question: Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? Or will it be impregnated after a while? Thanks in advance met vriendelijke groet, with best regards Emile D.L. van Essen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 16:28:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 20:28:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> Message-ID: <1651306119.1708009.1525897698458@mail.yahoo.com> Emile,?Can't you test a sample piece? ?Hank On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 11:34:59 AM MDT, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? Material question: Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft ?presurised water? Or will it be impregnated after a while? ? Thanks in advance ? met vriendelijke groet, with best regards ? Emile D.L. van Essen ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 16:40:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 16:40:48 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <1651306119.1708009.1525897698458@mail.yahoo.com> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> <1651306119.1708009.1525897698458@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You should be able to find material specifications for the resin which indicate the expected water absorption %. There will always be some swell, but these materials can perform well in submerged service. Mechanical properties, including compressive strength, can be approximated by incorporating the properties of each of the matrix and fiber reinforcement materials in an average weighted according to their respective volume fractions in the completed composite. This will be true of random and quasi-isotropic layups. Non-isotropic layups will introduce some dependency on fiber orientation and subsequent layer rotations. As far as water penetration, in a submerged composite I would try not to expose fiber / matrix interfaces to the medium (i.e. cut surfaces or exposed fibers), instead taking care to seal any such interfaces by coating with additional epoxy. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On May 9, 2018, 14:28, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Emile, > Can't you test a sample piece? > Hank > > On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 11:34:59 AM MDT, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > Material question: > > Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? > > Or will it be impregnated after a while? > > Thanks in advance > > met vriendelijke groet, with best regards > > Emile D.L. van Essen > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 17:29:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 21:29:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air filter References: <940126391.1732615.1525901390790.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <940126391.1732615.1525901390790@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am making a ?filter to catch water and oil from my compressor using a hydraulic cylinder and tampons. ?My question is, should I put the filer between the HP tank and the manifold or right off the compressor. ?It seems to me the hot air coming off the compressor will not have time to condense before it gets to the filter. ?Or should I make a high pressure condenser ahead of the filter.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 17:39:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 09:39:06 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> Message-ID: <6E66A59C-BEA7-4C3B-A44B-75A4EB0700B2@yahoo.com> Hi Emile, my brother-in-laws fibreglass yacht has been sitting in the harbour for at least 30 years, so pretty impervious to water. The glass in the fibre would not crush, but the resin around it would squash a little under that pressure. I would think the resin would seal any exposed fibres by squashing around them when put under that kind of pressure. What are you sending down that deep? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/05/2018, at 5:34 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > Material question: > Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? > Or will it be impregnated after a while? > > Thanks in advance > > met vriendelijke groet, with best regards > > Emile D.L. van Essen > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 17:44:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 21:44:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air filter In-Reply-To: <940126391.1732615.1525901390790@mail.yahoo.com> References: <940126391.1732615.1525901390790.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <940126391.1732615.1525901390790@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <837423173.1779701.1525902270096@mail.yahoo.com> On my scuba compressor, the water separator and filter are on the output of the compressor prior to the cascade.? You really don't water and oil getting into the storage tanks.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 5:30 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air filter Hi All,I am making a ?filter to catch water and oil from my compressor using a hydraulic cylinder and tampons. ?My question is, should I put the filer between the HP tank and the manifold or right off the compressor. ?It seems to me the hot air coming off the compressor will not have time to condense before it gets to the filter. ?Or should I make a high pressure condenser ahead of the filter.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 18:18:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 22:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air filter In-Reply-To: <837423173.1779701.1525902270096@mail.yahoo.com> References: <940126391.1732615.1525901390790.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <940126391.1732615.1525901390790@mail.yahoo.com> <837423173.1779701.1525902270096@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1512597958.1753257.1525904304721@mail.yahoo.com> Al, does you compressor have a condenser coil? ?I think that is what i should do, I agree about not want ing water in the HP tank. ?I am replacing the tank since I have a spare. ?Hank On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 3:44:48 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: On my scuba compressor, the water separator and filter are on the output of the compressor prior to the cascade.? You really don't water and oil getting into the storage tanks.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 5:30 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] air filter Hi All,I am making a ?filter to catch water and oil from my compressor using a hydraulic cylinder and tampons. ?My question is, should I put the filer between the HP tank and the manifold or right off the compressor. ?It seems to me the hot air coming off the compressor will not have time to condense before it gets to the filter. ?Or should I make a high pressure condenser ahead of the filter.Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 19:00:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 19:00:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Message-ID: <330344166.13406.1525906805450@wamui-gaston.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 19:20:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 11:20:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <330344166.13406.1525906805450@wamui-gaston.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <330344166.13406.1525906805450@wamui-gaston.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <784A5B27-22B9-485A-BCF9-BCD4F86A8F77@yahoo.com> Hi Ian, a while since I looked at fibreglass, but I made my ambient from epoxy rather than polyester because it was less hydroscopic apart from other things. I used a marine epoxy, so I guess there are differing levels of water resistance within the epoxy products. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 10/05/2018, at 11:00 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > What Sean said. Look up the spec sheets and you should get the water absorption rates and equilibrium. > > Alan, I don't know much about GRP boat building (a little about surfboards), but it seems traditional to use polyester resin for this types of work. Polyester is fairly low water absorbing, around 0.55%: > http://www.ndt.net/article/ndt-slovenia2013/papers/189.pdf > > For comparison, some types of Nylon can absorb 3.5% mass in water (some are lower). > > This 2009 paper on "Interaction of Water with Epoxy" indicates there is some swelling with epoxy: > http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-control.cgi/2009/094405.pdf > > There a few different types of epoxy, I randomly picked "novolac epoxy" from the epoxy family, and found: > https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/jpa-00251480/document > After 10 days a 2.3% mass increase was observed. > > Disclaimer: I didn't full read all publications I've linked to. > > Cheers, > Ian. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: May 9, 2018 2:39 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question > > Hi Emile, > my brother-in-laws fibreglass yacht has been sitting in the harbour > for at least 30 years, so pretty impervious to water. > The glass in the fibre would not crush, but the resin around it would squash > a little under that pressure. I would think the resin would seal any exposed > fibres by squashing around them when put under that kind of pressure. > What are you sending down that deep? > Alan > Sent from my iPad > >> On 10/05/2018, at 5:34 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Material question: >> Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? >> Or will it be impregnated after a while? >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> met vriendelijke groet, with best regards >> >> Emile D.L. van Essen >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 9 21:11:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 18:11:11 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Message-ID: <898928801.15812.1525914672200@wamui-bison.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 10 03:54:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 09:54:56 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <6E66A59C-BEA7-4C3B-A44B-75A4EB0700B2@yahoo.com> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> <6E66A59C-BEA7-4C3B-A44B-75A4EB0700B2@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05e201d3e834$30497420$90dc5c60$@nl> Thanks for the respons . Testing sounds logical but it should be long term and it is difficult to measure the water ingress. Polyester yachts do have a osmosis problem when they sit all year in the water. We use thin fiberglass plate in the rim thrusters and we want to use it in a deep diving ROV. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 9 mei 2018 23:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Hi Emile, my brother-in-laws fibreglass yacht has been sitting in the harbour for at least 30 years, so pretty impervious to water. The glass in the fibre would not crush, but the resin around it would squash a little under that pressure. I would think the resin would seal any exposed fibres by squashing around them when put under that kind of pressure. What are you sending down that deep? Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/05/2018, at 5:34 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Material question: Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? Or will it be impregnated after a while? Thanks in advance met vriendelijke groet, with best regards Emile D.L. van Essen _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 10 05:48:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 09:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <05e201d3e834$30497420$90dc5c60$@nl> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> <6E66A59C-BEA7-4C3B-A44B-75A4EB0700B2@yahoo.com> <05e201d3e834$30497420$90dc5c60$@nl> Message-ID: <1929659576.1906903.1525945696475@mail.yahoo.com> Emile, I would weigh the part then pressurize it for for several hours then weigh it again. ?If there is water absorbed it may still be in the part after removing it from the chamber. ?You can also put the part under stress by bending it over a fixture, then pressure test it while under stress. ?You can stress the part to near failure in a fixture then pressure test it for several days. ?If it can handle that then your good to go, I would think.?I would bet the propellers will work just fine at 5,000 psi.Hank On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 1:55:09 AM MDT, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv7608311343 #yiv7608311343 -- _filtered #yiv7608311343 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7608311343 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv7608311343 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv7608311343 #yiv7608311343 p.yiv7608311343MsoNormal, #yiv7608311343 li.yiv7608311343MsoNormal, #yiv7608311343 div.yiv7608311343MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv7608311343 a:link, #yiv7608311343 span.yiv7608311343MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7608311343 a:visited, #yiv7608311343 span.yiv7608311343MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7608311343 span.yiv7608311343E-mailStijl17 {color:windowtext;}#yiv7608311343 span.yiv7608311343E-mailStijl18 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv7608311343 .yiv7608311343MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv7608311343 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}#yiv7608311343 div.yiv7608311343WordSection1 {}#yiv7608311343 Thanks for the respons . Testing sounds logical but it should be long term and it is difficult to measure the water ingress. ? Polyester yachts do have a osmosis problem when they sit all year in the water. ? We use thin fiberglass plate in the rim thrusters and we want to use it in a deep diving ROV. ? Br, Emile ? Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 9 mei 2018 23:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question ? Hi Emile, my brother-in-laws fibreglass yacht has been sitting in the harbour for at least 30 years, so pretty impervious to water. The glass in the fibre would not crush, but the resin around it would squash a little under that pressure. I would think the resin would seal any exposed? fibres by squashing around them when put under that kind of pressure. What are you sending down that deep? Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/05/2018, at 5:34 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, ? Material question: Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft ?presurised water? Or will it be impregnated after a while? ? Thanks in advance ? met vriendelijke groet, with best regards ? Emile D.L. van Essen ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 10 16:15:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 08:15:10 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question In-Reply-To: <1929659576.1906903.1525945696475@mail.yahoo.com> References: <055301d3e7bc$05c3c3e0$114b4ba0$@nl> <6E66A59C-BEA7-4C3B-A44B-75A4EB0700B2@yahoo.com> <05e201d3e834$30497420$90dc5c60$@nl> <1929659576.1906903.1525945696475@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <052a01d3e89b$9b3011b0$d1903510$@gmail.com> Polyester is not good for water absorption. Vinyl ester or Epoxy are both better. I was advised to go with vinylester by my composites consultant. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Thursday, 10 May 2018 9:48 PM To: emile via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Emile, I would weigh the part then pressurize it for for several hours then weigh it again. If there is water absorbed it may still be in the part after removing it from the chamber. You can also put the part under stress by bending it over a fixture, then pressure test it while under stress. You can stress the part to near failure in a fixture then pressure test it for several days. If it can handle that then your good to go, I would think. I would bet the propellers will work just fine at 5,000 psi. Hank On Thursday, May 10, 2018, 1:55:09 AM MDT, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks for the respons . Testing sounds logical but it should be long term and it is difficult to measure the water ingress. Polyester yachts do have a osmosis problem when they sit all year in the water. We use thin fiberglass plate in the rim thrusters and we want to use it in a deep diving ROV. Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Alan via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: woensdag 9 mei 2018 23:39 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] material question Hi Emile, my brother-in-laws fibreglass yacht has been sitting in the harbour for at least 30 years, so pretty impervious to water. The glass in the fibre would not crush, but the resin around it would squash a little under that pressure. I would think the resin would seal any exposed fibres by squashing around them when put under that kind of pressure. What are you sending down that deep? Alan Sent from my iPad On 10/05/2018, at 5:34 AM, emile via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All, Material question: Can prefabricated epoxy/glassfibre plate material (like PCB) withstand 5000M / 18.000Ft presurised water? Or will it be impregnated after a while? Thanks in advance met vriendelijke groet, with best regards Emile D.L. van Essen _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 16:51:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 10:51:47 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights Message-ID: I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the array. I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only lasted a minute! My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat much faster than oil. Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? Rick The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best but looters are having a field day! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 18:29:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 22:29:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <674021400.575817.1526164144808@mail.yahoo.com> Rick,Buy yourself some off road truck LED lights and put them in your housings if you like and fill with vegetable oil (for the environment ?) ?make sure the housing has a way for the oil to expand. ?I have two LED car headlights with the fans removed submerged half way in oil inside the fixtures and have run them for an hr strait last weekend.Hank On Saturday, May 12, 2018, 2:52:10 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough.?I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the array. ?I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only lasted a minute!?My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat much faster than oil. Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!?RickThe fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best but looters are having a field day!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 18:55:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 12:55:45 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires Message-ID: I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 19:09:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:09:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <163569d601c-1db7-1aa4c@webjas-vac220.srv.aolmail.net> Have a look at the Panduit website. They do all sorts of wire looms, box looms with snap lids, and so on. Vance -----Original Message----- From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles To: psubs chat room Sent: Sat, May 12, 2018 6:56 pm Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? Rick _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 21:03:33 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 15:03:33 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires In-Reply-To: <163569d601c-1db7-1aa4c@webjas-vac220.srv.aolmail.net> References: <163569d601c-1db7-1aa4c@webjas-vac220.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Will do. Thanks Vance Rick On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 1:10 PM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Have a look at the Panduit website. They do all sorts of wire looms, box > looms with snap lids, and so on. > Vance > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: psubs chat room > Sent: Sat, May 12, 2018 6:56 pm > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires > > I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are > securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless > steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. > I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was > wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they > would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 12 22:01:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:01:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires Message-ID: <20180512190150.473B6794@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 01:23:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 17:23:08 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <255BA5E6-605B-438F-AAA3-2904A9E10947@yahoo.com> Rick, is your buck converter constant current, constant voltage? Needs to be constant current as when the LEDs heat up they draw more current & can burn themselves out. At a certain voltage the current can be kept under control but I've seen graphs where just 1 more volt will cause the current to really climb. You need to screw the LEDs down hard on to a heat sink with a thin layer of heat sink paste between. They will burn out if this is not done properly. I have been told that people drive the LEDs too hard & that competing manufacturers tend to over rate their lights; so it might pay to drive them at 80W rather than 100 W. I have glass lenses & no compensating oil. When I tried an acrylic lens it trapped the heat in! You can feel the heat pour out the front with the glass (pressure & heat resistant borosilicate) lens. I am using buck boost constant current drivers with dimming that I had made up for me in China. They work well but there are a few things I want changed. One of the components needs heat sinking as it gets too hot when the LED is on high power; the on off switch is on the pcb board & I need it to be remote. It is really fiddly taking off this switch & soldering an extension wire. Also the default mode for a disconnected / broken wire on both the dimmer & on off switch is that the light stays on & this would kill the light if a wires soldering broke when the light was out of the water. Will get them to change these things some time. If you get desperate & want some of these drivers I will get on to it & order a few more. Mine are 12-54V buck boost constant current with dimming. Glad you haven't had a volcano pop up in your garden. Have been watching the news footage & it looks pretty spectacular. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 13/05/2018, at 8:51 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. > > I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the array. > > I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only lasted a minute! > > My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat much faster than oil. > > Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? > Rick > The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best but looters are having a field day! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 07:43:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 07:43:08 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are some little aluminum safety locks for sliding doors that attach nicely to the stiffener flanges. I replaced the hand screws for set screws and drilled a hole to attach the wiring harness with a cable tie. https://goo.gl/images/tbmWNs Best, Alec On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 6:55 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are > securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless > steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. > I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was > wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they > would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? > > Rick > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 07:44:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 07:44:17 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually its this one... https://goo.gl/images/xHqDhS On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Alec Smyth wrote: > There are some little aluminum safety locks for sliding doors that attach > nicely to the stiffener flanges. I replaced the hand screws for set screws > and drilled a hole to attach the wiring harness with a cable tie. > > https://goo.gl/images/tbmWNs > > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 6:55 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are >> securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless >> steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. >> I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was >> wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they >> would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? >> >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 09:46:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 13:46:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer References: <286922117.665849.1526219162283.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <286922117.665849.1526219162283@mail.yahoo.com> HI All,I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms. ?Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 11:28:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 08:28:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Message-ID: <20180513082818.473D99B8@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 11:40:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:40:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer In-Reply-To: <20180513082818.473D99B8@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20180513082818.473D99B8@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: <497095912.687289.1526226046786@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, what is that? ?The transducer is for under water.Hank On Sunday, May 13, 2018, 9:28:42 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????? I wonder if an antenna analyzer might work ??Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 13:46:02 +0000 (UTC) HI All,I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms. ?Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 13:47:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 07:47:15 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: <255BA5E6-605B-438F-AAA3-2904A9E10947@yahoo.com> References: <255BA5E6-605B-438F-AAA3-2904A9E10947@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your input Alan! Since I DON'T understand anything about electricity at all, this has been a real frustrating process and I have been very tempted to just go back to the plans for the K-350 and use the tried and true incandescent bulbs in a one atmosphere housing but I haven't given up quite yet. We just had a new fissure pop up last night, I think number 17 after a couple days of all fissures just just off gassing with no lava. Wish I had the sub done for when it reaches the ocean and it will. Rick On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > is your buck converter constant current, constant voltage? > Needs to be constant current as when the LEDs heat up they draw more > current & can burn themselves out. > At a certain voltage the current can be kept under control but I've seen > graphs where just 1 more volt will cause the current to really climb. > You need to screw the LEDs down hard on to a heat sink with a thin layer > of heat sink paste between. They will burn out if this is not done > properly. > I have been told that people drive the LEDs too hard & that competing > manufacturers tend to over rate their lights; so it might pay to drive > them at > 80W rather than 100 W. > I have glass lenses & no compensating oil. When I tried an acrylic lens > it > trapped the heat in! You can feel the heat pour out the front with the > glass > (pressure & heat resistant borosilicate) lens. > I am using buck boost constant current drivers with dimming that I had > made > up for me in China. They work well but there are a few things I want > changed. > One of the components needs heat sinking as it gets too hot when the LED > is on high power; the on off switch is on the pcb board & I need it to be > remote. > It is really fiddly taking off this switch & soldering an extension wire. > Also > the default mode for a disconnected / broken wire on both the dimmer & on > off > switch is that the light stays on & this would kill the light if a wires > soldering > broke when the light was out of the water. > Will get them to change these things some time. If you get desperate & want > some of these drivers I will get on to it & order a few more. Mine are > 12-54V > buck boost constant current with dimming. > Glad you haven't had a volcano pop up in your garden. Have been watching > the news footage & it looks pretty spectacular. > Cheers Alan > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 13/05/2018, at 8:51 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and > I think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me > that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think > it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. > > > > I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs > $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what > you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 > volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to > that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the > array. > > > > I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them > using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is > full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool > water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by > it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple > of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my > wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would > eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only > lasted a minute! > > > > My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin > layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array > from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't > agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap > water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat > much faster than oil. > > > > Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know > exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I > can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who > are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where > did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? > > Rick > > The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best > but looters are having a field day! > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 13:55:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 07:55:15 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] attaching wires In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, I am actually using them for attaching tube as it passes the frames thanks to someones input on this site a while ago. I have about 4 things in the Conn that are mounted up close to the flange and I need to run those wires down until they can run horizontally along the top of the hull to the buss's. I just found some small plastic adhesive hooks on line that will work though I will probably use gorilla glue for each one as I doubt the adhesive is very good coming from China. Rick On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 1:43 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > There are some little aluminum safety locks for sliding doors that attach > nicely to the stiffener flanges. I replaced the hand screws for set screws > and drilled a hole to attach the wiring harness with a cable tie. > > https://goo.gl/images/tbmWNs > > > Best, > Alec > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 6:55 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I am running wires all over the place and was wondering how people are >> securing their wires to the hull. I have welded a couple of small stainless >> steel eyes to tie wire to but a real pain. >> I also would rather not drill any holes into my T bar frames. I was >> wondering if I could find small plastic eyes with adhesive on them if they >> would stay stuck to paint for a long time?? >> >> Rick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 14:04:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 11:04:31 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Message-ID: <20180513110431.473D23BD@m0117566.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 15:06:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 19:06:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer In-Reply-To: <20180513110431.473D23BD@m0117566.ppops.net> References: <20180513110431.473D23BD@m0117566.ppops.net> Message-ID: <2051922032.744980.1526238408489@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, Actually what hank is talking about is audio frequency, 10khz, ultrasonic.? Most antenna analyzers won't go below 160 meters which is about 1.8Mhz RF.? They are also designed for 50 ohm impedance which I am sure the transducer isn't even close to. Hank, Your best bet would be to go directly to the manufacturer who made the radio since the output stage would be tuned for the specific transducer used.? Ultrasonic transducers vary in configuration are are specific to a given design.? Maybe Delta Oceanographics can give you some info.??Al Secor From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Hank,????????? It's still RF energy correct???? It may be able to give you an accurate reading?of what it is giving off in terms of radio frequency.??? I'm?going to?be testing an antenna for my sailboat in a couple of days over at a friends house.? I'm using the backstay cable (7 mm) which we are going to simulate how it would be on the sailboat.?? The cable?is about 33' long and will have insulators in between where it connects to the boat.? The cable will be?"end feed" , which is not?ideal for a good antenna?but can be compensated for with a antenna tuner.? I'll talk to my friend about your transducer situation.?? AM frequency is around 1000 KHz.?Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:40:46 +0000 (UTC) Brian, what is that? ?The transducer is for under water.Hank On Sunday, May 13, 2018, 9:28:42 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????? I wonder if an antenna analyzer might work ??Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 13:46:02 +0000 (UTC) HI All,I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms. ?Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 15:47:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:47:54 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: <255BA5E6-605B-438F-AAA3-2904A9E10947@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, it doesn't sound like an electrical issue if your friend can hang them in a bucket of water for long periods of time. Are they screwed down hard to an aluminium heat sink with heat sink compound in between? There are plenty of videos on this. The other issue could be the pwm that you say you have between the buck / boost driver & the led. The led may not like this; I presume this is for dimming. You could just try dropping the voltage till they run at 50W & see if they last. Then of course you could have a bunch of useless leds, but if your friend can hang them in water with success this might not be so! Let me know if I can help. Alec has had success with the led light that Cliff designed. There is a good book for learning electronics " Make electronics" by Charles Platt. It is geared toward practical people like ourselves & reduces theory to a minimum. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 14/05/2018, at 5:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks for your input Alan! Since I DON'T understand anything about electricity at all, this has been a real frustrating process and I have been very tempted to just go back to the plans for the K-350 and use the tried and true incandescent bulbs in a one atmosphere housing but I haven't given up quite yet. > We just had a new fissure pop up last night, I think number 17 after a couple days of all fissures just just off gassing with no lava. Wish I had the sub done for when it reaches the ocean and it will. > Rick > >> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> is your buck converter constant current, constant voltage? >> Needs to be constant current as when the LEDs heat up they draw more >> current & can burn themselves out. >> At a certain voltage the current can be kept under control but I've seen >> graphs where just 1 more volt will cause the current to really climb. >> You need to screw the LEDs down hard on to a heat sink with a thin layer >> of heat sink paste between. They will burn out if this is not done properly. >> I have been told that people drive the LEDs too hard & that competing >> manufacturers tend to over rate their lights; so it might pay to drive them at >> 80W rather than 100 W. >> I have glass lenses & no compensating oil. When I tried an acrylic lens it >> trapped the heat in! You can feel the heat pour out the front with the glass >> (pressure & heat resistant borosilicate) lens. >> I am using buck boost constant current drivers with dimming that I had made >> up for me in China. They work well but there are a few things I want changed. >> One of the components needs heat sinking as it gets too hot when the LED >> is on high power; the on off switch is on the pcb board & I need it to be remote. >> It is really fiddly taking off this switch & soldering an extension wire. Also >> the default mode for a disconnected / broken wire on both the dimmer & on off >> switch is that the light stays on & this would kill the light if a wires soldering >> broke when the light was out of the water. >> Will get them to change these things some time. If you get desperate & want >> some of these drivers I will get on to it & order a few more. Mine are 12-54V >> buck boost constant current with dimming. >> Glad you haven't had a volcano pop up in your garden. Have been watching >> the news footage & it looks pretty spectacular. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On 13/05/2018, at 8:51 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > >> > I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. >> > >> > I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the array. >> > >> > I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only lasted a minute! >> > >> > My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat much faster than oil. >> > >> > Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? >> > Rick >> > The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best but looters are having a field day! >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 17:12:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 21:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer In-Reply-To: <2051922032.744980.1526238408489@mail.yahoo.com> References: <20180513110431.473D23BD@m0117566.ppops.net> <2051922032.744980.1526238408489@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1032050633.755551.1526245964692@mail.yahoo.com> Al, ?now I am wondering if my transducers are not matched. ?My support person in the boat can hear me perfectly so far to 225 feet but I can not hear them in the sub unless my ear is pressed to the speaker. ?I am trying headphones Wednesday for my 400 foot dive. ?The radios are at least 30 years old maybe more and the company is long gone. ?I can try Delta.thanks'Hank On Sunday, May 13, 2018, 1:07:15 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Brian, Actually what hank is talking about is audio frequency, 10khz, ultrasonic.? Most antenna analyzers won't go below 160 meters which is about 1.8Mhz RF.? They are also designed for 50 ohm impedance which I am sure the transducer isn't even close to. Hank, Your best bet would be to go directly to the manufacturer who made the radio since the output stage would be tuned for the specific transducer used.? Ultrasonic transducers vary in configuration are are specific to a given design.? Maybe Delta Oceanographics can give you some info.??Al Secor From: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Hank,????????? It's still RF energy correct???? It may be able to give you an accurate reading?of what it is giving off in terms of radio frequency.??? I'm?going to?be testing an antenna for my sailboat in a couple of days over at a friends house.? I'm using the backstay cable (7 mm) which we are going to simulate how it would be on the sailboat.?? The cable?is about 33' long and will have insulators in between where it connects to the boat.? The cable will be?"end feed" , which is not?ideal for a good antenna?but can be compensated for with a antenna tuner.? I'll talk to my friend about your transducer situation.?? AM frequency is around 1000 KHz.?Brian??? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 15:40:46 +0000 (UTC) Brian, what is that? ?The transducer is for under water.Hank On Sunday, May 13, 2018, 9:28:42 AM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???????? I wonder if an antenna analyzer might work ??Brian? --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 13:46:02 +0000 (UTC) HI All,I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms. ?Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz.Hank_______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 18:53:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 17:53:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick, based on my experience, I agree 100% with your electrical guy. The problem is any of these high lumen Led arrays will quickly overheat and destroy themselves if you cannot move the heat away from the array. The LED lights I have will work continually even when not submerged. They are housed in 6061-T6 aluminum case and are 1-atm air. As Alan mentions, the key is having the arrays securely mounted to an aluminum base with heat conducting grease. This aluminum base has to be designed to conduct the heat away from the array and into the cooling fins. Fins have to be designed to convect heat away from heat sink either by forced convection or natural convection when not submerged. The problem you are having is the mineral oil that is surrounding the array just cannot dissipate the heat fast enough. If you repeated the experiment with only one change, mounted the array to a finned heat sink, it probably would have worked just fine. As Alan mentions you need a constant current driver. Also I have had better luck with higher quality arrays like Bridgelux Vera 29. These are cheap at Digikey. If you don?t want to do the engineering around designing the LED light system, Hank?s approach works. Buy and off the shelf light that mates with your electrical system and hydraulically pressure compensate Cliff On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I > think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me > that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think > it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. > > I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs > $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what > you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 > volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to > that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the > array. > > I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them > using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is > full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool > water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by > it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple > of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my > wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would > eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only > lasted a minute! > > My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin > layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array > from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't > agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap > water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat > much faster than oil. > > Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know > exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I > can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who > are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where > did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? > Rick > The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best > but looters are having a field day! > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 19:35:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 13:35:47 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Alan and Chris much appreciated and I can't imagine building a sub without this group! Rick On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, based on my experience, I agree 100% with your electrical guy. The > problem is any of these high lumen Led arrays will quickly overheat and > destroy themselves if you cannot move the heat away from the array. The LED > lights I have will work continually even when not submerged. They are > housed in 6061-T6 aluminum case and are 1-atm air. As Alan mentions, the > key is having the arrays securely mounted to an aluminum base with heat > conducting grease. This aluminum base has to be designed to conduct the > heat away from the array and into the cooling fins. Fins have to be > designed to convect heat away from heat sink either by forced convection or > natural convection when not submerged. The problem you are having is the > mineral oil that is surrounding the array just cannot dissipate the heat > fast enough. If you repeated the experiment with only one change, > mounted the array to a finned heat sink, it probably would have worked just > fine. As Alan mentions you need a constant current driver. Also I have > had better luck with higher quality arrays like Bridgelux Vera 29. These > are cheap at Digikey. > If you don?t want to do the engineering around designing the LED light > system, Hank?s approach works. Buy and off the shelf light that mates > with your electrical system and hydraulically pressure compensate > > Cliff > > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I am still trying to come up with a viable working LED light system and I >> think I have it boiled down to cheap arrays? I have a friend helping me >> that understands electricity a lot better than I do and he seems to think >> it's a heat issue, not dispersing it quick enough. >> >> I am using a 10,000 lumen array that is about 1 1/2" square and costs >> $2.75 each and made in china. Well, you've herd the saying, you get what >> you pay for? These are rated for about 100 watts and like to see around 34 >> volts so were running them threw a buck booster? and dialing them down to >> that from about 38 volts and then running them threw a PWM and then to the >> array. >> >> I at first was putting them in a housing that I had fabricated for them >> using a strain relief fitting to run the power cord threw as the housing is >> full of mineral oil then setting the housing in a 5 gal bucket of cool >> water and they are still burning out so I tried just hanging an array by >> it's wires into a container of mineral oil and still only lasting a couple >> of minutes so I got a thin cold pack from the freezer (without telling my >> wife of course!) and sandwiched the array in it thinking that that would >> eliminate any questions of the heat dissipation theory and it still only >> lasted a minute! >> >> My friend is still insistent that its a heat problem and that the thin >> layer of plastic that holds the frozen stuff in is enough to keep the array >> from seeking the relief that it needs before melting down which I don't >> agree with. He says he can hang an array by it's wires in a bucket of tap >> water for a number of hours with no issues and that water disperses heat >> much faster than oil. >> >> Sorry for the long post but I felt it necessary to let you guys know >> exactly what I am doing for better input. I want to put this behind me so I >> can get on to the next thing! It would be helpful to hear from those who >> are using a small high luman LED array as to what you are using and where >> did you buy it. PS: I snuck the cold pack back into the freezer unnoticed!? >> Rick >> The fissures stopped spewing lava two days ago so will hope for the best >> but looters are having a field day! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 20:40:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 00:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> I have completed most of my trailer modifications except for additional cross-members which should arrive mid-week.? For the record, I would never purchase a used trailer again.? I thought I had found a pretty good deal on an aluminum boat trailer that could easily be converted for the submarine but unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth.? So far I have $3500 into a 10 year old trailer and could have bought a shiny new one for $3800.? Aggravates the hell out of me but lesson learned.? My advice, don't follow in my footsteps. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 13 21:44:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 18:44:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <655122723.8917.1526262284255@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 14 11:26:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Dean Ackman via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:26:01 -0800 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1526311565.IFMTfIxNHQNRUIFMTf5vmX@mf-smf-ucb024c2> http://joy.popscashconnection.com Dean Ackman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 14 13:03:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:03:38 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: transducer In-Reply-To: <000601d3eb8c$3ed01750$bc7045f0$@designenginuity.com> References: <286922117.665849.1526219162283.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <286922117.665849.1526219162283@mail.yahoo.com> <000601d3eb8c$3ed01750$bc7045f0$@designenginuity.com> Message-ID: Hank, My brother in law used to work for a company that designed this kind of stuff so I sent your post to him and this is his response. Hope it helps. Rick ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wally Schneider Date: Mon, May 14, 2018 at 4:02 AM Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer To: Rick Patton Hi Rick, If it?s a straight-up piezo transducer (no matching network) and Hank has access to some basic lab gear, the resonant frequency can be measured using the method in the link below. https://www.americanpiezo.com/knowledge-center/piezo-theory/ determining-resonance-frequency.html. Probably the best results would be with the transducer in air. If he doesn?t have the gear/expertise, his local college physics dept may be able to help him. *Wally Schneider* *Design Enginuity* *wally at designenginuity.com * *(** 425.239.0265* Electronic Design | Schematic Capture | Project Management | PCB Layout *From:* Rick Patton *Sent:* Sunday, May 13, 2018 10:59 AM *To:* Wally Schneider *Subject:* Fwd: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer Hey Sir Walter, Just got your drawings and printed them so I can take them over to the shop and try and follow threw with your suggestions. I am forwarding this email on to you from Hank as I am sure you would know the answer as you worked with that company in the north end of lake Washington for a while and that's what they did?? Rick ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles* Date: Sun, May 13, 2018 at 3:46 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion HI All, I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms. Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 14 13:17:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 17:17:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: transducer In-Reply-To: References: <286922117.665849.1526219162283.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <286922117.665849.1526219162283@mail.yahoo.com> <000601d3eb8c$3ed01750$bc7045f0$@designenginuity.com> Message-ID: <1551528151.1051513.1526318226995@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick,Thank you for that, I will see how my test goes Wednesday before I start getting serious. ?Turns out with headphones, it is a lot louder. ?Wish me luckHank On Monday, May 14, 2018, 11:04:13 AM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, My brother in law used to work for a company that designed this kind of stuff so I sent your post to him and this is his response. Hope it helps. Rick ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wally Schneider Date: Mon, May 14, 2018 at 4:02 AM Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer To: Rick Patton Hi Rick, ? If it?s a straight-up piezo transducer (no matching network) and Hank has access to some basic lab gear, the resonant frequency can be measured using the method in the link below. https://www.americanpiezo.com/ knowledge-center/piezo-theory/ determining-resonance- frequency.html. ??Probably the best results would be with the transducer in air. ? If he doesn?t have the gear/expertise, his local college physics dept may be able to help him. ? ? Wally Schneider Design Enginuity wally at designenginuity.com????? ???????????? (? 425.239.0265 Electronic Design |? Schematic Capture |? Project Management? |? PCB Layout ? From: Rick Patton Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 10:59 AM To: Wally Schneider Subject: Fwd: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer ? Hey Sir Walter, ? Just got your drawings and printed them so I can take them over to the shop and try and follow threw with your suggestions. I am forwarding this email on to you from Hank as I am sure you would know the answer as you worked with that company in the north end of lake Washington for a while and that's what they did??? Rick? ? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Date: Sun, May 13, 2018 at 3:46 AM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] transducer To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion HI All, I am looking for a 10Hz transducer for my coms.? Does anyone know how to test a transducer to determine if it is 10Hz or 27Hz. Hank ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon May 14 14:57:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 11:57:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fwd: transducer Message-ID: <175880401.6157.1526324223084@wamui-napoleon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 01:16:13 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 17:16:13 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig Message-ID: Cliff, you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing set up do you? I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster testing jig out in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the side, & am wanting to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some ideas from how you did it. BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator as it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 02:30:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 18:30:29 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <074401d3ec16$5564c760$002e5620$@gmail.com> Alan, You can set up your own anodising if you want. Very easy and all you need is a $200 DC power supply, a plastic tub, some lead sheet and some acid. I do my own hard anodising. Hugh -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2018 5:16 PM To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig Cliff, you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing set up do you? I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster testing jig out in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the side, & am wanting to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some ideas from how you did it. BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator as it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 03:40:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 19:40:48 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig In-Reply-To: <074401d3ec16$5564c760$002e5620$@gmail.com> References: <074401d3ec16$5564c760$002e5620$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hugh, it might be worth my while looking at that at some stage. I have worked at an electroplating firm so not too unfamiliar with the process. What's the latest on Q-sub, she mustn't be far off testing! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 15/05/2018, at 6:30 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > You can set up your own anodising if you want. > Very easy and all you need is a $200 DC power supply, a plastic tub, some > lead sheet and some acid. > I do my own hard anodising. > Hugh > > -----Original Message----- > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] > On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2018 5:16 PM > To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig > > Cliff, > you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing set up do you? > I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster testing jig out > in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the side, & am wanting > to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. > Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some ideas from > how you did it. > BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator as > it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. > Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 09:29:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 08:29:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alan, I sent you a compressed file to your private email address. Basics of the tester was a hinged boom that lowers the thruster into the pool. The bollard thrust was measured with a load cell. Thruster speed was measured with a mag pick up on a shaft and a frequency input module in PLC. PLC was used to take measured analog signals and data logging. Touchscreen HMI was used to control and display results. System used three 100 Ah batteries connected in series to drive thruster. Also measured the current and voltage on thurster. Included a power point file of a psub presentation I did on the test a while back. I am interested in the results you get from your thruster. Keep us in abreast of testing progress. Regards Cliff On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing > set up do you? > I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster > testing jig out in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the > side, > & am wanting to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. > Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some > ideas from how you did it. > BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator > as it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. > Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 09:42:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 15:42:58 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <092d01d3ec52$a31c7160$e9555420$@nl> All, I build a test rig from a 1000 Liter IBC container. Cost just 40,- USD . See picture. Amps and RPM are monitored with the PC. Despite the capacity men can test just for a few seconds at full throttle ( abt. 37 Kgf) After that the thrust goes down due the turbulence. A pool would be better but any testing at home saves trouble when you are at the lake ;-) Br, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 15 mei 2018 15:29 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig Alan, I sent you a compressed file to your private email address. Basics of the tester was a hinged boom that lowers the thruster into the pool. The bollard thrust was measured with a load cell. Thruster speed was measured with a mag pick up on a shaft and a frequency input module in PLC. PLC was used to take measured analog signals and data logging. Touchscreen HMI was used to control and display results. System used three 100 Ah batteries connected in series to drive thruster. Also measured the current and voltage on thurster. Included a power point file of a psub presentation I did on the test a while back. I am interested in the results you get from your thruster. Keep us in abreast of testing progress. Regards Cliff On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing set up do you? I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster testing jig out in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the side, & am wanting to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some ideas from how you did it. BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator as it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5329.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 56743 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 11:51:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 16:51:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? Message-ID: hi all I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on Skadoc. Its got to be big. All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on battery pods now. Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. investigating this. Regards James From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 12:54:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (emile via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 18:54:51 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <094001d3ec6d$714d5440$53e7fcc0$@nl> So all electric? See if you can co for 48 VDC for safety reason. Paul Moorhouse showed me some suppliers for his project. Maybe ask him. Br, Emile -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] Namens James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: dinsdag 15 mei 2018 17:52 Aan: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? hi all I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on Skadoc. Its got to be big. All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on battery pods now. Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_n ominal_power_5-86kw I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. investigating this. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 16:32:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 08:32:23 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Thruster Test Jig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27164790-3B31-49FA-B631-4945FEA4C831@yahoo.com> Thanks Cliff, I couldn't download the zip but you have given me some ideas from what you have said. I might just put a removable pin in & remove the vertical section to change the propellers. Most of the propellers have different shaft sizes so will probably take the vertical unit back to the workshop to remove press fitted sleeves. The extension ladder can be retracted back to get at the test unit. Have a 48V rectifier so can keep this running day & night. I am initially testing the small 6374 60kv brushless motors as I had some good results previously. Steve from Australia is playing around with the same motor & Vesc motor controller. You can supposedly extract the rpm, amp draw, Voltage & motor temperature from the esc, & I have a guy working on that. The main thing I am looking at is getting good efficiency with this small direct drive thruster, & avoiding a gear box. Will keep you up with the play. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 1:29 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I sent you a compressed file to your private email address. > > Basics of the tester was a hinged boom that lowers the thruster into the pool. The bollard thrust was measured with a load cell. Thruster speed was measured with a mag pick up on a shaft and a frequency input module in PLC. PLC was used to take measured analog signals and data logging. Touchscreen HMI was used to control and display results. System used three 100 Ah batteries connected in series to drive thruster. Also measured the current and voltage on thurster. Included a power point file of a psub presentation I did on the test a while back. > > I am interested in the results you get from your thruster. Keep us in abreast of testing progress. > > Regards > > Cliff > >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> you don't have the plans or pictures of your thruster testing >> set up do you? >> I have just bought an extension ladder to extend my thruster >> testing jig out in to the pool further to eliminate the backwash off the side, >> & am wanting to make the jig a bit more professionally than last time. >> Have a bit of an idea of how I'm building it but may gain some >> ideas from how you did it. >> BTW just ordered the aluminium version of your parker relieving regulator >> as it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than what I could buy the 316. >> Will pull it apart & look at anodising it. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 17:28:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 09:28:07 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> Hi James, just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has the option in the check box for air or water cooling. If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting the body of the thruster. The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric surfboards that is rated at 600W http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying on oil for cooling. You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the forward & reverse axial load. Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's in Birmingham. I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress if you want to hold off your thruster build. There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. Good luck. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > hi all > > I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on > Skadoc. Its got to be big. > > All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on > battery pods now. > > Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. > > So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. > > What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. > > https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw > > I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. > > I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. > investigating this. > > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 17:37:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 09:37:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> References: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6CA497F2-A08C-4890-81A1-438C136C3326@yahoo.com> James, just thought you are probably putting it in your hull & driving a pulley on the propeller shaft. So ignore the last email lol. I would think you could get something a lot cheaper, but make sure it has good bearings. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 9:28 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi James, > just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. > Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has > the option in the check box for air or water cooling. > If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some > large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive > bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks > like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting > the body of the thruster. > The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ > pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside > & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option > of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the > housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in > this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the > option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some > escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. > The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric > surfboards that is rated at 600W > http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ > It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test > one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what > kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you > have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. > This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying > on oil for cooling. > You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. > Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check > what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors > suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the > forward & reverse axial load. > Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. > I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's > in Birmingham. > I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a > time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress > if you want to hold off your thruster build. > There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be > of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats > rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. > Good luck. > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> hi all >> >> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >> >> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >> battery pods now. >> >> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >> >> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >> >> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >> >> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >> >> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >> >> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >> investigating this. >> >> Regards >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 18:15:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> References: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1999604146.1624368.1526422505072@mail.yahoo.com> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. ?They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. ?These motors are extremely durable and cost effective. ?Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. ?At full load it barely gets warm. ?Hank On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast.Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but hasthe option in the check box for air or water cooling.? ?If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with somelarge diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drivebicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it lookslike they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hittingthe body of the thruster.The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside& can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the optionof fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through thehousing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen inthis case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is theoption of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some?escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high.The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electricsurfboards that is rated at 600Whttp://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test?one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what?kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you?have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this.This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relyingon oil for cooling.?You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft.Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to checkwhat axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motorssuspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take theforward & reverse axial load.Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers.I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he'sin Birmingham.I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a?time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progressif you want to hold off your thruster build.There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may beof help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boatsrather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category.Good luck.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hi all I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on Skadoc. ?Its got to be big. All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on battery pods now. Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. What do you guys think about this motor choice here? ?As a possibility. https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. investigating this. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 18:16:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 10:16:52 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <6CA497F2-A08C-4890-81A1-438C136C3326@yahoo.com> References: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> <6CA497F2-A08C-4890-81A1-438C136C3326@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5435F698-07B9-466E-BC07-A6C83EDBE84C@yahoo.com> James, a bit more info; it is made by Golden Motors, China. https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm main site... https://www.goldenmotor.com/ There is a lot more info here along with accessaries. Not sure what freight would cost you, but the price is better & the speed controllers would be compatible. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 9:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > James, > just thought you are probably putting it in your hull & driving a > pulley on the propeller shaft. So ignore the last email lol. > I would think you could get something a lot cheaper, but make sure > it has good bearings. > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2018, at 9:28 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi James, >> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting >> the body of the thruster. >> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ >> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the >> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the >> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some >> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric >> surfboards that is rated at 600W >> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what >> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you >> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying >> on oil for cooling. >> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. >> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >> forward & reverse axial load. >> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. >> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's >> in Birmingham. >> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress >> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be >> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >> Good luck. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> hi all >>> >>> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >>> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >>> >>> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >>> battery pods now. >>> >>> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >>> >>> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >>> >>> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >>> >>> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >>> >>> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >>> >>> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >>> investigating this. >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 18:39:40 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 10:39:40 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <5435F698-07B9-466E-BC07-A6C83EDBE84C@yahoo.com> References: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> <6CA497F2-A08C-4890-81A1-438C136C3326@yahoo.com> <5435F698-07B9-466E-BC07-A6C83EDBE84C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <846270D4-9F47-4E03-A2FC-F21884A637AC@yahoo.com> James, just checked the Golden Motors site for the price on your HPM 5000B motor & it's US $446- plus $120 freight ( for me in NZ) Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 10:16 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > James, > a bit more info; it is made by Golden Motors, China. > https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm > main site... > https://www.goldenmotor.com/ > There is a lot more info here along with accessaries. > Not sure what freight would cost you, but the price is better & the speed > controllers would be compatible. > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 16/05/2018, at 9:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> James, >> just thought you are probably putting it in your hull & driving a >> pulley on the propeller shaft. So ignore the last email lol. >> I would think you could get something a lot cheaper, but make sure >> it has good bearings. >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 16/05/2018, at 9:28 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi James, >>> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >>> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >>> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >>> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >>> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >>> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >>> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting >>> the body of the thruster. >>> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ >>> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >>> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >>> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the >>> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >>> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the >>> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some >>> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >>> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric >>> surfboards that is rated at 600W >>> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >>> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >>> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what >>> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you >>> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >>> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying >>> on oil for cooling. >>> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. >>> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >>> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >>> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >>> forward & reverse axial load. >>> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. >>> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's >>> in Birmingham. >>> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >>> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress >>> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >>> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be >>> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >>> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >>> Good luck. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> hi all >>>> >>>> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >>>> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >>>> >>>> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >>>> battery pods now. >>>> >>>> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >>>> >>>> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >>>> >>>> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >>>> >>>> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >>>> >>>> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >>>> >>>> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >>>> investigating this. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> James >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 18:49:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <846270D4-9F47-4E03-A2FC-F21884A637AC@yahoo.com> References: <34A65BF4-C201-4EE9-81D7-7CD8D1244A7C@yahoo.com> <6CA497F2-A08C-4890-81A1-438C136C3326@yahoo.com> <5435F698-07B9-466E-BC07-A6C83EDBE84C@yahoo.com> <846270D4-9F47-4E03-A2FC-F21884A637AC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1493366552.1654968.1526424563479@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?Wow that is a sexy motor, yikes! ?and cheapHank On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 4:40:04 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,just checked the Golden Motors site for the price on yourHPM 5000B motor & it's US $446- plus $120 freight ( for me in NZ)Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2018, at 10:16 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,a bit more info; it is made by Golden Motors, China.https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htmmain site...https://www.goldenmotor.com/There is a lot more info here along with accessaries.Not sure what freight would cost you, but the price is better & the speedcontrollers would be compatible.Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2018, at 9:37 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: James,just thought you are probably putting it in your hull & driving a?pulley on the propeller shaft. So ignore the last email lol.I would think you could get something a lot cheaper, but make sureit has good bearings.Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2018, at 9:28 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi James,just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast.Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but hasthe option in the check box for air or water cooling.? ?If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with somelarge diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drivebicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it lookslike they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hittingthe body of the thruster.The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside& can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the optionof fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through thehousing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen inthis case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is theoption of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some?escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high.The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electricsurfboards that is rated at 600Whttp://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test?one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what?kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you?have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this.This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relyingon oil for cooling.?You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft.Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to checkwhat axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motorssuspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take theforward & reverse axial load.Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers.I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he'sin Birmingham.I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a?time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progressif you want to hold off your thruster build.There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may beof help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boatsrather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category.Good luck.Alan? Sent from my iPad On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: hi all I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on Skadoc. ?Its got to be big. All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on battery pods now. Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. What do you guys think about this motor choice here? ?As a possibility. https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. investigating this. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 19:01:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 16:01:05 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? Message-ID: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 21:21:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 11:21:59 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi James & Alan, My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android smartphone. Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the 6374s back or refund me on them. It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if anyone is interested - email me direct at stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the required prop torque to determine motor current and size. I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated significantly, or better cooled. Cheers, Steve On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a > place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just > make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? > Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) > > James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. > They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are > extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from > a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. > Hank > > On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Hi James, > just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. > Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has > the option in the check box for air or water cooling. > If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some > large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive > bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks > like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't > hitting > the body of the thruster. > The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a > water/ > pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside > & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option > of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through > the > housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in > this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is > the > option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. > Some > escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. > The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for > electric > surfboards that is rated at 600W > http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard- > skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ > It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test > one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of > what > kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I > think you > have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. > This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am > relying > on oil for cooling. > You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. > Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check > what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors > suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the > forward & reverse axial load. > Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor > controllers. > I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea > he's > in Birmingham. > I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a > time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress > if you want to hold off your thruster build. > There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that > may be > of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats > rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. > Good luck. > Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > hi all > > I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on > Skadoc. Its got to be big. > > All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on > battery pods now. > > Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. > > So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. > > What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. > > https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_ > motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw > > I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. > > I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. > investigating this. > > Regards > James > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 15 23:08:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 15:08:43 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Steve, thanks for all the info. Great that you mastered the Vesc. I have someone trying to get the data off the Vesc for me. He failed using a raspberry pi but is having more success with an arduino. He intends to display it on a smart phone. Any chance he could email you if he gets stuck? My previous tests were with the Saite 6374 60kv. It wasn't an enclosed motor like the Maytech skateboard motor & I oil compensated the thruster to help with cooling. The Saite motor was working a bit like a vein pump & throwing the oil out of the housing & up the wiring tube. Nevertheless I got 30 hrs of continuous running out of it. I think I mentioned that I thought the oil I was using had dissolved the glue on the hall sensor board & put the timing out, also I hadn't press fitted the propeller shaft well & the motors rely on a good press fit as they don't have a can bearing to support the can. Were you oil compensating them or just running them as is inside a housing? I was thinking of drilling holes in the end of the Maytech housing to facilitate oil flow. I have read of brushless oil filled underwater linear actuators having their own little circulating propeller to cool the inside of the motor with oil, & they expound the benefits of being able to fit a smaller motor in the actuator because of this. As far as propellers & load goes, I initially went on a propeller calculator but have been buying props that are used on similar horsepower motors. I will test these props out & hopefully find something that works efficiently with the motors! Or at least see what direction I need to be moving with them. Also complicating things is that I need a prop that is made left & right handed. There is a bit of information out there on the 8085 motors in the electric surfboard builders forums. Will make quite a fast DPV! Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi James & Alan, > My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android smartphone. > > Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the 6374s back or refund me on them. > > It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if anyone is interested - email me direct at stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . > > The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the required prop torque to determine motor current and size. > > I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated significantly, or better cooled. > > Cheers, > Steve > > > >> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >> >> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi James, >> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting >> the body of the thruster. >> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ >> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the >> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the >> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some >> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric >> surfboards that is rated at 600W >> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what >> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you >> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying >> on oil for cooling. >> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. >> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >> forward & reverse axial load. >> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. >> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's >> in Birmingham. >> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress >> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be >> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >> Good luck. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> hi all >> >> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >> >> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >> battery pods now. >> >> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >> >> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >> >> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >> >> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >> >> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >> >> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >> investigating this. >> >> Regards >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 16 05:42:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 10:42:47 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi All, Thanks for all your input. A lot for me to absorb there so I will study it all. Like the sound of the golf cart motors. Emile, the idea is to put a generator inside the hull. Motor in a can outside. Regards James On 16 May 2018 at 04:08, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Steve, > thanks for all the info. > Great that you mastered the Vesc. I have someone trying to get > the data off the Vesc for me. He failed using a raspberry pi but > is having more success with an arduino. He intends to display > it on a smart phone. Any chance he could email you if he gets stuck? > My previous tests were with the Saite 6374 60kv. > It wasn't an enclosed motor like the Maytech skateboard motor & > I oil compensated the thruster to help with cooling. > The Saite motor was working a bit like a vein pump & throwing the oil > out of the housing & up the wiring tube. Nevertheless I got 30 hrs of > continuous running out of it. I think I mentioned that I thought the oil > I was using had dissolved the glue on the hall sensor board & put the > timing out, also I hadn't press fitted the propeller shaft well & the motors > rely on a good press fit as they don't have a can bearing to support > the can. > Were you oil compensating them or just running them as is inside a > housing? > I was thinking of drilling holes in the end of the Maytech housing to > facilitate oil flow. I have read of brushless oil filled underwater linear > actuators > having their own little circulating propeller to cool the inside of the > motor with > oil, & they expound the benefits of being able to fit a smaller motor in the > actuator because of this. > As far as propellers & load goes, I initially went on a propeller calculator > but > have been buying props that are used on similar horsepower motors. > I will test these props out & hopefully find something that works > efficiently > with the motors! Or at least see what direction I need to be moving with > them. > Also complicating things is that I need a prop that is made left & right > handed. > There is a bit of information out there on the 8085 motors in the electric > surfboard > builders forums. Will make quite a fast DPV! > Cheers Alan > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > > Hi James & Alan, > My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although > the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a > learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor > everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android > smartphone. > > Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and > promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and > didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads > (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered > overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv > (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the > next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the > 6374s back or refund me on them. > > It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - > and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable > number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical > input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this > may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a > motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will > perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to > determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation > can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if > anyone is interested - email me direct at > stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . > > The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them > scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb > is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find > nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with > your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the > required prop torque to determine motor current and size. > > I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous > operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated > significantly, or better cooled. > > Cheers, > Steve > > > > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> >> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a >> place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just >> make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> >> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >> >> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. >> They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are >> extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from >> a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi James, >> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't >> hitting >> the body of the thruster. >> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a >> water/ >> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through >> the >> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is >> the >> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. >> Some >> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for >> electric >> surfboards that is rated at 600W >> >> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of >> what >> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I >> think you >> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am >> relying >> on oil for cooling. >> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless >> shaft. >> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >> forward & reverse axial load. >> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor >> controllers. >> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea >> he's >> in Birmingham. >> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my >> progress >> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that >> may be >> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >> Good luck. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> hi all >> >> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >> >> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >> battery pods now. >> >> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >> >> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >> >> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >> >> >> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >> >> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >> >> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >> investigating this. >> >> Regards >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 16 06:34:11 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (graham bayliss via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 11:34:11 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006a01d3ed01$6dd4a900$497dfb00$@net> Hi I used a small motor but a large HP it is a agni motor and is only eight inches across driving a 12" 10 prop this is rated at 36 volts it is very power full. have a look and see for yourself had to design housing but this was not a problem. Graham -----Original Message----- From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 15 May 2018 16:52 To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? hi all I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on Skadoc. Its got to be big. All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on battery pods now. Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_n ominal_power_5-86kw I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. investigating this. Regards James _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 16 06:40:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 22:40:41 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <40D8C559-705C-4958-8080-DBC57B4E1CED@yahoo.com> James, you could have a through hull propeller shaft with a small deisel engine driving it by a pulley & belt & another belt drive for your electric motor. You could then use your electric motor as a generator when surface running. Would be a lot easier than making a thruster. Most modern motor controllers have regenerative breaking. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 9:42 PM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > > Thanks for all your input. A lot for me to absorb there so I will > study it all. Like the sound of the golf cart motors. > > Emile, the idea is to put a generator inside the hull. Motor in a can outside. > > Regards > James > > On 16 May 2018 at 04:08, Alan via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: >> Steve, >> thanks for all the info. >> Great that you mastered the Vesc. I have someone trying to get >> the data off the Vesc for me. He failed using a raspberry pi but >> is having more success with an arduino. He intends to display >> it on a smart phone. Any chance he could email you if he gets stuck? >> My previous tests were with the Saite 6374 60kv. >> It wasn't an enclosed motor like the Maytech skateboard motor & >> I oil compensated the thruster to help with cooling. >> The Saite motor was working a bit like a vein pump & throwing the oil >> out of the housing & up the wiring tube. Nevertheless I got 30 hrs of >> continuous running out of it. I think I mentioned that I thought the oil >> I was using had dissolved the glue on the hall sensor board & put the >> timing out, also I hadn't press fitted the propeller shaft well & the motors >> rely on a good press fit as they don't have a can bearing to support >> the can. >> Were you oil compensating them or just running them as is inside a >> housing? >> I was thinking of drilling holes in the end of the Maytech housing to >> facilitate oil flow. I have read of brushless oil filled underwater linear >> actuators >> having their own little circulating propeller to cool the inside of the >> motor with >> oil, & they expound the benefits of being able to fit a smaller motor in the >> actuator because of this. >> As far as propellers & load goes, I initially went on a propeller calculator >> but >> have been buying props that are used on similar horsepower motors. >> I will test these props out & hopefully find something that works >> efficiently >> with the motors! Or at least see what direction I need to be moving with >> them. >> Also complicating things is that I need a prop that is made left & right >> handed. >> There is a bit of information out there on the 8085 motors in the electric >> surfboard >> builders forums. Will make quite a fast DPV! >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> >> Hi James & Alan, >> My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although >> the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a >> learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor >> everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android >> smartphone. >> >> Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and >> promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and >> didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads >> (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered >> overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv >> (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the >> next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the >> 6374s back or refund me on them. >> >> It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - >> and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable >> number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical >> input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this >> may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a >> motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will >> perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to >> determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation >> can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if >> anyone is interested - email me direct at >> stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . >> >> The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them >> scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb >> is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find >> nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with >> your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the >> required prop torque to determine motor current and size. >> >> I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous >> operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated >> significantly, or better cooled. >> >> Cheers, >> Steve >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >>> >>> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a >>> place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just >>> make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>> >>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>> >>> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >>> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >>> >>> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. >>> They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are >>> extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from >>> a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi James, >>> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >>> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >>> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >>> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >>> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >>> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >>> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't >>> hitting >>> the body of the thruster. >>> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a >>> water/ >>> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >>> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >>> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through >>> the >>> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >>> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is >>> the >>> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. >>> Some >>> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >>> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for >>> electric >>> surfboards that is rated at 600W >>> >>> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >>> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >>> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of >>> what >>> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I >>> think you >>> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >>> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am >>> relying >>> on oil for cooling. >>> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless >>> shaft. >>> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >>> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >>> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >>> forward & reverse axial load. >>> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor >>> controllers. >>> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea >>> he's >>> in Birmingham. >>> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >>> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my >>> progress >>> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >>> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that >>> may be >>> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >>> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >>> Good luck. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles >>> wrote: >>> >>> hi all >>> >>> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >>> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >>> >>> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >>> battery pods now. >>> >>> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >>> >>> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >>> >>> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >>> >>> >>> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >>> >>> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >>> >>> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >>> investigating this. >>> >>> Regards >>> James >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >>> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 16 17:17:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 09:17:36 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <7B8F669B-E185-4D97-A2E5-2A445DB4E5F8@yahoo.com> Steve, re your comment on the rc motors not being designed for continuous use. Most motors of the 6374 size don't have a can/bell bearing. My Saite motor didn't. All the torque from the rotating can is transferred through a small area where the propeller shaft is press fitted & secured with a couple of grub screws. I made a stainless propeller shaft & put in an extra grub screw to secure it but in time (30 hrs) the end of the can would pull against the magnets when the motor came to a stop. So a slight bit of wear or bad press fit caused a slight tilt of the can & because of the small air gap a tiny bit of error has a large effect on the other end of the can. The Turnigy SK3 aero drive 6374 has a can bearing. I had one that I crudely tested in the pool initially (149kv). Just stuck a prop on it & lowered it in without a housing. It was cogging on very slow speeds & that is why I have gone for sensored motors. There have been improvements in escs since then & the Vesc may be better on sensorless mode. Do you know who makes the Turnigy SK3? I would like to try one with 60kv. I am suspending my motors between two housing bearings that take all the lateral load & are happy with the construction of the motors apart from the lack of a can bearing! The 8085 looks to have one! BTW the Saite motor was US $60-. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi James & Alan, > My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android smartphone. > > Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the 6374s back or refund me on them. > > It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if anyone is interested - email me direct at stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . > > The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the required prop torque to determine motor current and size. > > I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated significantly, or better cooled. > > Cheers, > Steve > > > >> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >> >> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi James, >> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting >> the body of the thruster. >> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ >> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the >> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the >> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some >> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric >> surfboards that is rated at 600W >> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what >> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you >> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying >> on oil for cooling. >> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. >> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >> forward & reverse axial load. >> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. >> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's >> in Birmingham. >> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress >> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be >> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >> Good luck. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> hi all >> >> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >> >> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >> battery pods now. >> >> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >> >> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >> >> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >> >> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >> >> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >> >> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >> investigating this. >> >> Regards >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 16 20:08:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 10:08:43 +1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: <7B8F669B-E185-4D97-A2E5-2A445DB4E5F8@yahoo.com> References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> <7B8F669B-E185-4D97-A2E5-2A445DB4E5F8@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, My comment about continuous duty was more in relation to heat dissipation, but that's really interesting to hear about the mechanical limitations (my ambient housing includes the prop shaft and bearings already, so I just have to mate the motor to the shaft and mount it). The good thing about the VESC is you have full control of all the parameters, and you can also run a detection of the motor settings. So cogging should be fixable. Regarding bluetooth/Android, I'm not sure whether your friend is trying to reinvent the wheel. Buy the bluetooth module from https://metr.at/shop (no, the cheap Chinese alternatives don't work) and download the Metr (monitoring) and Perimetr (changing parameters) apps on Android. You'll be up and running on bluetooth in minutes (works on the latest stock firmware). Limited to PPM/UART control, but I can lend a hand with firmware changes if you're trying to do some other control method. Setup instructions here: https://metr.at/setup For anyone else that's interested, the VESC can control DC motors as well. Cheers, Steve On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 7:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Steve, > re your comment on the rc motors not being designed for continuous use. > Most motors of the 6374 size don't have a can/bell bearing. My Saite > motor didn't. All the torque from the rotating can is transferred through a > small area where the propeller shaft is press fitted & secured with a > couple > of grub screws. I made a stainless propeller shaft & put in an extra grub > screw to secure it but in time (30 hrs) the end of the can would pull > against > the magnets when the motor came to a stop. So a slight bit of wear or bad > press fit caused a slight tilt of the can & because of the small air gap a > tiny > bit of error has a large effect on the other end of the can. > The Turnigy SK3 aero drive 6374 has a can bearing. I had one that I crudely > tested in the pool initially (149kv). Just stuck a prop on it & lowered it > in without > a housing. It was cogging on very slow speeds & that is why I have gone for > sensored motors. There have been improvements in escs since then & the > Vesc may be better on sensorless mode. > Do you know who makes the Turnigy SK3? I would like to try one with 60kv. > I am suspending my motors between two housing bearings that take all the > lateral load & are happy with the construction of the motors apart from the > lack of a can bearing! The 8085 looks to have one! > BTW the Saite motor was US $60-. > Cheers Alan > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi James & Alan, > My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although > the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a > learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor > everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android > smartphone. > > Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and > promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and > didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads > (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered > overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv > (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the > next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take > the 6374s back or refund me on them. > > It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop > - and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable > number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical > input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this > may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a > motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will > perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to > determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation > can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if > anyone is interested - email me direct at stephen.fordyce@ > tfmengineering.com.au . > > The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them > scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of > thumb is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To > find nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this > with your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the > required prop torque to determine motor current and size. > > I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous > operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated > significantly, or better cooled. > > Cheers, > Steve > > > > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a >> place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just >> make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > rg> >> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >> >> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. >> They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are >> extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from >> a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >> Hank >> >> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> >> Hi James, >> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't >> hitting >> the body of the thruster. >> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a >> water/ >> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go >> through the >> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is >> the >> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. >> Some >> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for >> electric >> surfboards that is rated at 600W >> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboar >> d-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to >> test >> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea >> of what >> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I >> think you >> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am >> relying >> on oil for cooling. >> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless >> shaft. >> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >> forward & reverse axial load. >> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor >> controllers. >> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea >> he's >> in Birmingham. >> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my >> progress >> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that >> may be >> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >> Good luck. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> hi all >> >> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >> >> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >> battery pods now. >> >> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >> >> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >> >> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >> >> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_mot >> or_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >> >> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >> >> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >> investigating this. >> >> Regards >> James >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 17 02:58:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 18:58:53 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? In-Reply-To: References: <20180515160105.65E9BA36@m0117565.ppops.net> <7B8F669B-E185-4D97-A2E5-2A445DB4E5F8@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Steve, will pass the esc info on & post on the motor tests when I eventually get into full swing. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 17/05/2018, at 12:08 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, > My comment about continuous duty was more in relation to heat dissipation, but that's really interesting to hear about the mechanical limitations (my ambient housing includes the prop shaft and bearings already, so I just have to mate the motor to the shaft and mount it). > > The good thing about the VESC is you have full control of all the parameters, and you can also run a detection of the motor settings. So cogging should be fixable. > > Regarding bluetooth/Android, I'm not sure whether your friend is trying to reinvent the wheel. Buy the bluetooth module from https://metr.at/shop > (no, the cheap Chinese alternatives don't work) and download the Metr (monitoring) and Perimetr (changing parameters) apps on Android. You'll be up and running on bluetooth in minutes (works on the latest stock firmware). Limited to PPM/UART control, but I can lend a hand with firmware changes if you're trying to do some other control method. > > Setup instructions here: https://metr.at/setup > > For anyone else that's interested, the VESC can control DC motors as well. > > Cheers, > Steve > >> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 7:17 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Steve, >> re your comment on the rc motors not being designed for continuous use. >> Most motors of the 6374 size don't have a can/bell bearing. My Saite >> motor didn't. All the torque from the rotating can is transferred through a >> small area where the propeller shaft is press fitted & secured with a couple >> of grub screws. I made a stainless propeller shaft & put in an extra grub >> screw to secure it but in time (30 hrs) the end of the can would pull against >> the magnets when the motor came to a stop. So a slight bit of wear or bad >> press fit caused a slight tilt of the can & because of the small air gap a tiny >> bit of error has a large effect on the other end of the can. >> The Turnigy SK3 aero drive 6374 has a can bearing. I had one that I crudely >> tested in the pool initially (149kv). Just stuck a prop on it & lowered it in without >> a housing. It was cogging on very slow speeds & that is why I have gone for >> sensored motors. There have been improvements in escs since then & the >> Vesc may be better on sensorless mode. >> Do you know who makes the Turnigy SK3? I would like to try one with 60kv. >> I am suspending my motors between two housing bearings that take all the >> lateral load & are happy with the construction of the motors apart from the >> lack of a can bearing! The 8085 looks to have one! >> BTW the Saite motor was US $60-. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 16/05/2018, at 1:21 PM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi James & Alan, >>> My trials with the Maytech 6374 brushless motor did not go well, although the VESC is amazing and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Bit of a learning curve, but I can now change all the parameters and monitor everything (temperatures/voltage/current/RPM) via bluetooth and Android smartphone. >>> >>> Maytech recommended the 6374 motors based on the specs I gave them, and promised they would have certain resistance, etc. Well, they arrived and didn't, so were only running at 50% efficiency with the propellor loads (roughly 27V, max 20A, ~500W, 800RPM) I put on them, and quickly triggered overheating protection as a result. So if anyone wants a 6374 60Kv or 70Kv (I have one of each) let me know - I'm hoping to try the 8085 which is the next size up, but may have to go elsewhere if Maytech don't want to take the 6374s back or refund me on them. >>> >>> It's critically important to match (at least ballpark) the motor and prop - and both are highly variable (just think about the infinitely variable number of coils and prop pitch). Otherwise a huge chunk of your electrical input power is turning to heat and you may not even realise (I suspect this may have been happening to Alan with some of his issues). Just because a motor is rated to however many volts, amps or watts, doesn't mean it will perform well outside of the sweet spot. Efficiency is difficult to determine because it's hard to measure power out - but a good approximation can be found from the motor curves. I have a spreadsheet/calculator if anyone is interested - email me direct at stephen.fordyce at tfmengineering.com.au . >>> >>> The prop has a performance curve and so does the motor and matching them scientifically is a bit of an art form. But apparently a good rule of thumb is to start with your prop RPM and torque under desired load. To find nominal unloaded motor speed, multiply loaded RPM by 1.25. Use this with your battery voltage to determine the Kv of the motor. Then use the required prop torque to determine motor current and size. >>> >>> I'm finding that often the RC motors are not well designed for continuous operation and the associated cooling, so they need to be derated significantly, or better cooled. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Yes I am a proponent of golf cart motors as well. If you can find a place that repairs them you can find some good deals. Best plan is to just make multiple back up motors and switch them out if you have any problem. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: >>>> >>>> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Motor Suggestion? >>>> Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:15:05 +0000 (UTC) >>>> >>>> James, for an inboard motor, you can't go wrong with golf cart motors. They are available in 48 volt and up to 8 hp I think. These motors are extremely durable and cost effective. Gamma has a 2 hp traction motor from a tenant sweeper, same as golf cart. At full load it barely gets warm. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, 3:28:36 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi James, >>>> just had a look at the motor & it's a bit of a beast. >>>> Looks like an in-runner. It says elsewhere it is cooled with a fan but has >>>> the option in the check box for air or water cooling. >>>> If you have a look at the Dragon submersible, they have gone with some >>>> large diameter but short motors that resemble the high torque direct drive >>>> bicycle hub motors that are popular. On the Dragon submersible it looks >>>> like they have developed thier own propeller so that the thrust isn't hitting >>>> the body of the thruster. >>>> The cooling system on your motor isn't going to work if you put it in a water/ >>>> pressure proof enclosure. With the in-runner the coils are on the outside >>>> & can dissipate their heat through the can, so there would be the option >>>> of fitting the motor tightly in to a housing & letting the heat go through the >>>> housing into the water; but the fins on the motor won't let that happen in >>>> this case. Maybe grind them off. It has a temperature sensor so there is the >>>> option of monitoring the temperature & running it at a suitable power. Some >>>> escs can drop the power automatically if the temperature gets too high. >>>> The motor is very expensive. There is this Maytech motor designed for electric >>>> surfboards that is rated at 600W >>>> http://www.michobby.com/product/electric-surfboard-skateboard-e-bike-brushless-motor-8085-160kv-motor/ >>>> It is an 8085 160 kv out-runner & priced at $188- US. I am wanting to test >>>> one of these but will test my smaller motors first to get a better idea of what >>>> kv winding I should have. Maytech will wind to your specifications; I think you >>>> have some knowledge of the RC world so you will understand this. >>>> This motor being an out-runner has the coils on the inside & so I am relying >>>> on oil for cooling. >>>> You will need to replace the propeller shaft with a longer stainless shaft. >>>> Your motor is designed to drive a pulley & you would have to check >>>> what axial load the bearings take. In my thruster design I have my motors >>>> suspended between two bearings in the thruster housing that take the >>>> forward & reverse axial load. >>>> Alien Power in England have some large brushless motors & motor controllers. >>>> I think he's a small operator & he will respond to questions. Got an idea he's >>>> in Birmingham. >>>> I am focussed on my thruster testing at the moment, but could not put a >>>> time on when I will test the 8085 motor. You can keep an eye on my progress >>>> if you want to hold off your thruster build. >>>> There is an electric surfboard site that are using large DC motors, that may be >>>> of help, but these boards are doing 40kph, so are more like planning boats >>>> rather than submarines that fall in to the work boat category. >>>> Good luck. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 16/05/2018, at 3:51 AM, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> hi all >>>> >>>> I am thinking about what motor I should use for my main thruster on >>>> Skadoc. Its got to be big. >>>> >>>> All these ideas are just thoughts at the moment, as I am working on >>>> battery pods now. >>>> >>>> Expecting delivery of pipe from UK today. >>>> >>>> So I have time to think how motor configuration is going to work. >>>> >>>> What do you guys think about this motor choice here? As a possibility. >>>> >>>> https://www.miromax.lt/en/m-6/c-39/c-45/product-500-bldc_motor_hpm-5000b_-_nominal_power_5-86kw >>>> >>>> I have room for 12 x12v batteries, so all voltages are a possibility. >>>> >>>> I am also thinking of running an inverter and working at 120v AC. >>>> investigating this. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> James >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 19 11:13:52 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 11:13:52 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1526742837.K3YPfcAPzQSeEK3YTfqBHv@mf-smf-ucb032c3> http://assess.unitedsocialistparty.org Pete Niedermayr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 20 05:07:12 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 04:07:12 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <1526807237.KKJBfh26jNKjzKKJBfPWGO@mf-smf-ucb031c2> http://start.qjpretouching.com Jon Wallace -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 07:18:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 11:18:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> One of my major trailer modifications is complete, adding cross-members to satisfy the footprint of the K-600.? I wrote a document that describes the issue and resolution which you can access at http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/docs/trailer_modification.pdf. Thanks to Cliff and Hank for helping me through this process.? BIG thanks to Cliff for his engineering skills.? I'm on track to move the vessel from the old trailer to the new one this weekend (May 28) and will be building a temporary gantry to perform that move. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 20:33:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 00:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance References: <1868547784.68750.1527035598272.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1868547784.68750.1527035598272@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all,I was testing my two scrubbers today and wonder if a scrubber performs better when the CO2 level is higher? ?So when my system is running at 1600 ?PPM with one person, will it then run at 3200 with two persons? ?I don't have two persons at the moment to try.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 21:02:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 18:02:07 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20180522180207.8A5F46CC@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 21:11:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 01:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20180522180207.8A5F46CC@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180522180207.8A5F46CC@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <356238462.99465.1527037907212@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,Your link was helpful, but I found a source in San diego that was cheaper. ?It has been shipped from San Diego to Idaho where I will pick it up on my way to Lake Tahoe, just to bring it back to California lol ?The Status on my super deep sub project is there is no status for now. ?I am going to finish E3000 first and dive that and maybe sell Gamma to fund the next project.Hank On Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 7:02:21 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???? Which sub is it that you're thinking Titanic ???? What is the status of that sub????And was that link helpful on the Sofnolime???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 00:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Hi all,I was testing my two scrubbers today and wonder if a scrubber performs better when the CO2 level is higher? ?So when my system is running at 1600 ?PPM with one person, will it then run at 3200 with two persons? ?I don't have two persons at the moment to try.Hank _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 21:35:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 18:35:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Message-ID: <20180522183518.8A5DA889@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 22:02:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 21:02:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20180522180207.8A5F46CC@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20180522180207.8A5F46CC@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hank, see http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjJiIXF2JrbAhUPm1kKHWmgA5AQFggpMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtic.mil%2Fget-tr-doc%2Fpdf%3FAD%3DADA160181&usg=AOvVaw0P9kLuZ_ll9Sy3A4KEep45 NCSC TECHMAN 4110-1-83(A) pages 8-11 for those factors that affect how the scrubber performs. Key items are temperature, relative humidly, and residence time of the CO2 laden air in the scrubber. I don't think the CO2 absorption process cares about the level of CO2 in the incoming air. But what it does impact the scrubber performance is changing the flow rate through the scrubber via the rpm change of the blower motor. If the flowrate is to high, the gas channels through the scrubber and there is insufficient time for the absorption to take place, thus the CO2 level will climb. If the flow rate through the scrubber is to low, CO2 generation could be faster than scrubber can remove the CO2, thus the CO2 will climb. See report for suggested minimum and maximum velocity through the scrubber. What will change in going from one to two persons is that you have twice (more or less) the CO2 generation thus you need twice the CO2 absorbent on board for a given period of time. As an example for my boat (one man), 0.28 lbs of SodaSorbHP per person per hour is required. So for a ABS 72 hour minimum, I carry 20 lbs of SodasorbHP. If I had a passenger I would need to have 40 lbs of SodaSorbHP on board. If it were me, I would put two people in the boat and do test at 1600 rpm and 3200 rpm and see which of these enables you to hold the CO2 ppm below 1000-2000 ppm. Also need to measure the current to the blower in both cases to and see if auxiliary battery bank has the capacity to handle this current for 72 hours. On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:02 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, Which sub is it that you're thinking Titanic ? What is the > status of that sub? > > And was that link helpful on the Sofnolime? > > Brian > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion org> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance > Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 00:33:18 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi all, > I was testing my two scrubbers today and wonder if a scrubber performs > better when the CO2 level is higher? So when my system is running at 1600 > PPM with one person, will it then run at 3200 with two persons? I don't > have two persons at the moment to try. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 22 22:31:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 14:31:47 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03140BA5-8B93-4FF6-BE68-637290798F73@yahoo.com> Great documentation of the trailer modificationd Jon. Looking forward to hearing how it performs! Alan Sent from my iPad > On 22/05/2018, at 11:18 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > One of my major trailer modifications is complete, adding cross-members to satisfy the footprint of the K-600. I wrote a document that describes the issue and resolution which you can access at http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/docs/trailer_modification.pdf. > > Thanks to Cliff and Hank for helping me through this process. BIG thanks to Cliff for his engineering skills. I'm on track to move the vessel from the old trailer to the new one this weekend (May 28) and will be building a temporary gantry to perform that move. > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 23 04:58:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 08:58:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <20180522183518.8A5DA889@m0117460.ppops.net> References: <20180522183518.8A5DA889@m0117460.ppops.net> Message-ID: <1983190092.213341.1527065937672@mail.yahoo.com> Brian,The place I got the absorbent is Amron International.Hank On Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 7:35:35 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,??????????????? What is the place in San Diego !!!!?? I think I had mine shipped from back east !?I'm hooking up with some movers and shakers in the submarine and off shore biz !??? Thru my HAM radio friend who does evaluations of off shore oil platforms .?? He's sort of known about my sub for a while but finally went and checked it out.? I've been telling him some of my woes with the harbor patrol guy.? Anyway he wrote a really nice letter to his buddies asking for us to get together for some beers and talk subs and maybe helping me during the testing.??Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 01:11:47 +0000 (UTC) Brian,Your link was helpful, but I found a source in San diego that was cheaper. ?It has been shipped from San Diego to Idaho where I will pick it up on my way to Lake Tahoe, just to bring it back to California lol ?The Status on my super deep sub project is there is no status for now. ?I am going to finish E3000 first and dive that and maybe sell Gamma to fund the next project.Hank On Tuesday, May 22, 2018, 7:02:21 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,???? Which sub is it that you're thinking Titanic ???? What is the status of that sub????And was that link helpful on the Sofnolime???Brian --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 00:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Hi all,I was testing my two scrubbers today and wonder if a scrubber performs better when the CO2 level is higher? ?So when my system is running at 1600 ?PPM with one person, will it then run at 3200 with two persons? ?I don't have two persons at the moment to try.Hank _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________Personal_Submersibles mailing listPersonal_Submersibles at psubs.orghttp://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed May 23 20:33:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 00:33:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM.? Although not really necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required.? I have settled on a configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors.? This is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 sensors...so why not go for it. I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work.? In my prototype I was using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing power available with it compared to the Arduino. The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. The layout boards can be viewed herehttp://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf Click here to see the?Submarine Control Manager (SCM)?graphical display. | | | | | | | | | | | Submarine Control Manager (SCM) A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a graphical display of sensors and allows contro... | | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 01:04:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:04:18 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great work Jon, must have taken quite a bit of time. I don't think you have too many sensor inputs; I worked out that I needed 60+ to be in line with GL requirements. I looked at the display video & it was quite easy to follow. Did you model that on an existing submarine display? Alan Sent from my iPad > On 24/05/2018, at 12:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM. Although not really necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required. I have settled on a configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors. This is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 sensors...so why not go for it. > > I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work. In my prototype I was using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing power available with it compared to the Arduino. > > The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. > > The layout boards can be viewed here > http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf > > Click here to see the Submarine Control Manager (SCM) graphical display. > > > Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a graphical display of sensors and allows contro... > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 09:45:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:45:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1746427195.4952782.1527169558144@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, I did not model after anything specific although graphically it does try to replicate military aircraft displays.? Due to limited screen "real estate" it was important to layer information based upon importance.? Those things that I consider essential information appears on the initial display...depth, duration, heading, warnings, and access to engines.? You'll note that depth, duration, and warnings are always displayed regardless of what other information is being displayed.??Graphics is a matter of personal preference.? I do like Cliff's display as well. What I really like about the Raspberry PI is that you have a full Linux OS at your disposal so logging data is easy and accessing the OS via ftp, vnc, or wifi with the latest versions, is all possible.? The wifi capability with VNC means I can even access and control the display with my phone.? On the surface at least, a support team could use their own phones to log into the SCM and monitor my submarine systems.? Just a lot of neat stuff that can be done. From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Great work Jon, must have taken quite a bit of time.I don't think you have too many sensor inputs; I worked out that I?needed 60+ to be ?in line with GL requirements.I looked at the display video & it was quite easy to follow.Did you model that on an existing submarine display?Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 10:53:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 09:53:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice work Jon. I like the HMI. Just as a comparison, I use on my boat via PLC 54 channels: Analog input 21 RTD inputs 2 Digital input 10 RS-232 INPUT 3 Analog Output 6 Digital Output 12 PCBs look good. I also use PCB Express. They have always done a good job on boards for me. OAS Have you ever done any work with CANBUS (Control Area Network Bus? This is distributed communication network and protocol used on all modern cars for ECU (Electrical Control Units) to talk with each other. Driver is system robustness and minimizing thick cable harnesses. Always though it would be interesting to set up a psub using CANBUS. Cliff *54* On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM. Although not really > necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use > electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the > mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required. I have settled on a > configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors. This > is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of > room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 > sensors...so why not go for it. > > I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work. In my prototype I was > using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic > display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for > data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing > power available with it compared to the Arduino. > > The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a > "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and > communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. > > The layout boards can be viewed here > http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/ > docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf > > Click here to see the Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > graphical > display. > > Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a > graphical display of sensors and allows contro... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 11:12:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 10:12:41 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active. Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. Best Regards Cliff On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM. Although not really > necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use > electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the > mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required. I have settled on a > configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors. This > is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of > room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 > sensors...so why not go for it. > > I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work. In my prototype I was > using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic > display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for > data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing > power available with it compared to the Arduino. > > The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a > "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and > communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. > > The layout boards can be viewed here > http://www.subdb.info/database/vessels/1320788990/ > docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf > > Click here to see the Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > graphical > display. > > Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a > graphical display of sensors and allows contro... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 11:41:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:41:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <195046938.5001988.1527176485990@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, I have no experience with CANBUS.? I'll have to look into it. From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Nice work Jon. I like the HMI.? Just as a comparison,? I use on my boat via PLC 54 channels: | Analog input | 21 | | RTD inputs | 2 | | Digital input | 10 | | RS-232 INPUT | 3 | | Analog Output | 6 | | Digital Output | 12 | | PCBs look good.? I also use PCB Express.? They have always done a good job on boards for me. OASHave you ever done any work with CANBUS (Control Area Network Bus?? This is distributed communication network and protocol used on all modern cars for ECU (Electrical Control Units) to talk with each other.? Driver is system robustness and minimizing thick cable harnesses.? Always though it would be interesting to set up a psub using CANBUS. Cliff | 54 | On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM.? Although not really necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required.? I have settled on a configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors.? This is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 sensors...so why not go for it. I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work.? In my prototype I was using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing power available with it compared to the Arduino. The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. The layout boards can be viewed herehttp://www.subdb.info/ database/vessels/1320788990/ docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf Click here to see the?Submarine Control Manager (SCM)?graphical display. | | | | | | | | | | | Submarine Control Manager (SCM) A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a graphical display of sensors and allows contro... | | | | ______________________________ _________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 11:55:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will interact with the Raspberry.? Also not shown is air tank pressure which will be added. I agree that not all data is as important as others.? Regarding the pitch and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well.? The pitch and roll outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very useful in this particular submarine application.? However, should I find myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag attached to the stern.? :)? See...we can justify anything. From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude.? Are you planning on adding this sensor?? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important.? What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading.? Other parameters I check less frequently.? Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style?indictor which looks very nice.? Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG.? As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active.? Keep updates coming.? I enjoyed video.? Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. Best Regards Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 11:57:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 08:57:22 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <2016045669.5472.1527177442446@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 12:17:55 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 11:17:55 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <2016045669.5472.1527177442446@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2016045669.5472.1527177442446@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: If you go CANBUS, please post progress. Cliff On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:57 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I'm also considering CANBUS for my subs intercommunication needs. The > motor controller I've purchased supports CANBUS (or a few flavors of) out > the box. Extending it to other things, light controllers, automated > values, sensors seems reasonably tractable using common micro controllers. > > Cheers, > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: May 24, 2018 8:41 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update > > Cliff, I have no experience with CANBUS. I'll have to look into it. > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:55 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update > > Nice work Jon. I like the HMI. Just as a comparison, I use on my boat > via PLC 54 channels: > > Analog input 21 > RTD inputs 2 > Digital input 10 > RS-232 INPUT 3 > Analog Output 6 > Digital Output 12 > > PCBs look good. I also use PCB Express. They have always done a good job > on boards for me. > > OAS > Have you ever done any work with CANBUS (Control Area Network Bus? This > is distributed communication network and protocol used on all modern cars > for ECU (Electrical Control Units) to talk with each other. Driver is > system robustness and minimizing thick cable harnesses. Always though it > would be interesting to set up a psub using CANBUS. > > Cliff > *54* > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM. Although not really > necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use > electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the > mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required. I have settled on a > configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors. This > is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of > room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 > sensors...so why not go for it. > > I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work. In my prototype I was > using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic > display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for > data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing > power available with it compared to the Arduino. > > The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a > "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and > communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. > > The layout boards can be viewed here > http://www.subdb.info/ database/vessels/1320788990/ > docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf > > > Click here to see the Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > graphical > display. > > Submarine Control Manager (SCM) > A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a > graphical display of sensors and allows contro... > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 12:31:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 09:31:15 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <972386997.6171.1527179476049@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 12:33:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 11:33:04 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 communication for sending altitude. Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our boats! Cliff On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > > I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will > interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which > will be added. > > I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch > and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll > outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which > is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very > useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find > myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank > blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial > awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that > I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag > attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update > > I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on > adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all > data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air > tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass > heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an > aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very > nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread > between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show > much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of > course your heading will be active. > > Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over > as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. > > Best Regards > > Cliff > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 13:53:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 05:53:31 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> Cliff, just had a look at the Airmar link & it says depth rating 10 ft. ?? How are you mounting it? I am intending using Canbus in my system. Am using raspberry pi, a plc & extracting data from my motor controllers with Arduino. Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/05/2018, at 4:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 communication for sending altitude. > > Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our boats! > > Cliff > >> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> >> I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which will be added. >> >> I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. >> >> >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >> >> I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active. >> >> Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 15:42:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 14:42:44 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Airmar DST800 transduce unit is hard plastic and built like a tank. There is a replaceable paddle wheel but no seals,. Everything is potted. I have had this transducer to 160 feet with no issues. The units is designed for boats as such the low depth number. Next month I will be diving the boat to 400 ft so will let you know if the transducer holds up. The 230 depth rating I was mentioning has to do with the sounder functionality. After the unmanned dive to 400 ft I plan on diving manned to 300 ft to set max operating depth of the boat. I will be able to tell you more after that dive as to what depth the unit stops sending the altitudes signals. Cliff On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, > just had a look at the Airmar link & it says depth rating 10 ft. ?? > How are you mounting it? > I am intending using Canbus in my system. > Am using raspberry pi, a plc & extracting data from my motor > controllers with Arduino. > Cheers Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25/05/2018, at 4:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf > for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water > tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends > results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit > sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you > would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only > down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I > have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 > communication for sending altitude. > > Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at > night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But > I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our > boats! > > Cliff > > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Cliff, >> >> I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will >> interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which >> will be added. >> >> I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch >> and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll >> outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which >> is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very >> useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find >> myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank >> blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial >> awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that >> I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag >> attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >> >> I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on >> adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all >> data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air >> tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass >> heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an >> aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very >> nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread >> between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show >> much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of >> course your heading will be active. >> >> Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over >> as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. >> >> Best Regards >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 16:32:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 08:32:05 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58B16D55-CFD5-4289-9357-3CDDE6271345@yahoo.com> Cliff, if you are mounting it as a through hull; from a safety point the weak link looks to be the plastic flange at the bottom that will take all the pressure. I see there was a more expensive stainless unit. I guess if there was any doubt you could measure the thickness of the flange & calculate what pressure it would take before it sheared. I believe with plastics there is a 4x safety factor where human life is concerned, so it would need to take 600lb pressure. ( good project for your students lol) Cheers Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/05/2018, at 7:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The Airmar DST800 transduce unit is hard plastic and built like a tank. There is a replaceable paddle wheel but no seals,. Everything is potted. I have had this transducer to 160 feet with no issues. The units is designed for boats as such the low depth number. Next month I will be diving the boat to 400 ft so will let you know if the transducer holds up. The 230 depth rating I was mentioning has to do with the sounder functionality. After the unmanned dive to 400 ft I plan on diving manned to 300 ft to set max operating depth of the boat. I will be able to tell you more after that dive as to what depth the unit stops sending the altitudes signals. > > Cliff > > > >> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Cliff, >> just had a look at the Airmar link & it says depth rating 10 ft. ?? >> How are you mounting it? >> I am intending using Canbus in my system. >> Am using raspberry pi, a plc & extracting data from my motor >> controllers with Arduino. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25/05/2018, at 4:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 communication for sending altitude. >>> >>> Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our boats! >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Cliff, >>>> >>>> I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which will be added. >>>> >>>> I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >>>> >>>> I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active. >>>> >>>> Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. >>>> >>>> Best Regards >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 16:47:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 15:47:19 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <58B16D55-CFD5-4289-9357-3CDDE6271345@yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> <58B16D55-CFD5-4289-9357-3CDDE6271345@yahoo.com> Message-ID: The unit in mounted to the FRP cowling around my aft MBT. As such water completely surrounds the transducer and I bring the wiring through the hull with a Subcon bulkhead penetrator. Only affect of pressure is to compress the potted transducer. The transducer does not penetrate the pressure hull. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Cliff, > if you are mounting it as a through hull; from a safety point the weak > link looks to be the plastic flange at the bottom that will take all the pressure. > I see there was a more expensive stainless unit. > I guess if there was any doubt you could measure the thickness of the flange > & calculate what pressure it would take before it sheared. I believe with plastics > there is a 4x safety factor where human life is concerned, so it would need to > take 600lb pressure. ( good project for your students lol) > Cheers Alan > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 25/05/2018, at 7:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> The Airmar DST800 transduce unit is hard plastic and built like a tank. There is a replaceable paddle wheel but no seals,. Everything is potted. I have had this transducer to 160 feet with no issues. The units is designed for boats as such the low depth number. Next month I will be diving the boat to 400 ft so will let you know if the transducer holds up. The 230 depth rating I was mentioning has to do with the sounder functionality. After the unmanned dive to 400 ft I plan on diving manned to 300 ft to set max operating depth of the boat. I will be able to tell you more after that dive as to what depth the unit stops sending the altitudes signals. >> >> Cliff >> >> >> >>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Cliff, >>> just had a look at the Airmar link & it says depth rating 10 ft. ?? >>> How are you mounting it? >>> I am intending using Canbus in my system. >>> Am using raspberry pi, a plc & extracting data from my motor >>> controllers with Arduino. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 25/05/2018, at 4:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 communication for sending altitude. >>>> >>>> Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our boats! >>>> >>>> Cliff >>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Cliff, >>>>> >>>>> I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which will be added. >>>>> >>>>> I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >>>>> >>>>> I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active. >>>>> >>>>> Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 17:37:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:37:49 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> <494045531.3989166.1526987899845@mail.yahoo.com> <1023441436.4780283.1527121998989@mail.yahoo.com> <120315778.5005616.1527177310131@mail.yahoo.com> <73AF05A3-1392-4EEA-A359-3C59E016F46C@yahoo.com> <58B16D55-CFD5-4289-9357-3CDDE6271345@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Cliff, you had me worried you were betting your life on a piece of plastic. I am still considering the option of a small 1/2" thick fibreglass disk mounted like a view port with a shoot-through-hull transducer mounted on the back of it, inside the hull. All the best for the upcoming dives at Lake Tahoe, hope you get perfect conditions. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 25/05/2018, at 8:47 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > The unit in mounted to the FRP cowling around my aft MBT. As such water completely surrounds the transducer and I bring the wiring through the hull with a Subcon bulkhead penetrator. Only affect of pressure is to compress the potted transducer. The transducer does not penetrate the pressure hull. > > Cliff > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Cliff, >> if you are mounting it as a through hull; from a safety point the weak >> link looks to be the plastic flange at the bottom that will take all the pressure. >> I see there was a more expensive stainless unit. >> I guess if there was any doubt you could measure the thickness of the flange >> & calculate what pressure it would take before it sheared. I believe with plastics >> there is a 4x safety factor where human life is concerned, so it would need to >> take 600lb pressure. ( good project for your students lol) >> Cheers Alan >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 25/05/2018, at 7:42 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> The Airmar DST800 transduce unit is hard plastic and built like a tank. There is a replaceable paddle wheel but no seals,. Everything is potted. I have had this transducer to 160 feet with no issues. The units is designed for boats as such the low depth number. Next month I will be diving the boat to 400 ft so will let you know if the transducer holds up. The 230 depth rating I was mentioning has to do with the sounder functionality. After the unmanned dive to 400 ft I plan on diving manned to 300 ft to set max operating depth of the boat. I will be able to tell you more after that dive as to what depth the unit stops sending the altitudes signals. >>> >>> Cliff >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Cliff, >>>> just had a look at the Airmar link & it says depth rating 10 ft. ?? >>>> How are you mounting it? >>>> I am intending using Canbus in my system. >>>> Am using raspberry pi, a plc & extracting data from my motor >>>> controllers with Arduino. >>>> Cheers Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 25/05/2018, at 4:33 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I use an Airmar DST800 http://www.airmar.com/uploads/Brochures/dst800.pdf for altitude and speed on the R300. Cost about $230. It also give water tempertarure. It would be compatible with what you have done as it sends results via serical communciaiton using NMEA 0183 prototcal. The unit sends a series of ASCII strings for depth, speed and temperature that you would have to capture and parse to use. I do this in my PLC. The only down side I see for your boat is the depth spec which is about 230 ft. I have seen a number of sounders that use NMEA 0183 serial or NEMA 2000 communication for sending altitude. >>>>> >>>>> Some how Jon, I don't think I would find you sitting on the bottom at night on a 45 degree pitch, inebriated, and calling for a lift bag! But I do agree we can find all kinds of good reasons to add new stuff to our boats! >>>>> >>>>> Cliff >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Cliff, >>>>>> >>>>>> I will probably add altitude as soon as I can find a sensor that will interact with the Raspberry. Also not shown is air tank pressure which will be added. >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that not all data is as important as others. Regarding the pitch and roll, I agree with your assessment on that as well. The pitch and roll outputs are "free", calculated as part of the digital compass heading which is tilt compensated, so I added them in even though they are not very useful in this particular submarine application. However, should I find myself in a night dive, stranded on the bottom, with the rear ballast tank blown off the stern, drunk, incoherent, and unable to ascertain spatial awareness; the data will come in handy so I can inform surface support that I am sitting on the bottom pitched up 45 degrees and need a lift bag attached to the stern. :) See...we can justify anything. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >>>>>> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 11:15 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >>>>>> >>>>>> I see depth on your navigation HMI but not altitude. Are you planning on adding this sensor? Having run my boat for several years, I find that all data is not equally important. What I find I check a lot are SOF of air tanks, SOC of batteries, depth, altitude, O2 and CO2 levels, and compass heading. Other parameters I check less frequently. Also you use an aircraft roll, pitch and compass heading style indictor which looks very nice. Having said that, my experience is that K boats have a large spread between CB and CG. As such my guess is that your indicator will not show much variation in pitch or roll under normal operating conditions but of course your heading will be active. >>>>>> >>>>>> Keep updates coming. I enjoyed video. Would be nice to have voice over as you walk through buttons and screens on HMI. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Cliff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 20:19:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 00:19:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <972386997.6171.1527179476049@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <972386997.6171.1527179476049@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1521866277.5196729.1527207579719@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ian, Mining bitcoin...too funny!? Yeah, I suppose why waste cpu cycles.? :) I pretty much settled on RPI because they have a nifty 7 inch capacitive touchscreen nicely engineered to fit in a tiny footprint, cheap, which exactly fits what I was looking for.? I don't think realtime is necessary for my needs but I wouldn't object to it either if I could get the same type of graphics and display.? I am getting past the i/o pin limitation on RPI by using multiplexers to sequence through the sensors.? At this point I think I'll stick with RPI and let you develop on the Beaglebone, although your piqued my interest now and will probably take a look at it. Jon? From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Hi Jon, the UI looks awesome.? I've been consider Beaglebone boards as RPI alternatives, since they have better embedded/realtime programming support (essentially a second microcontroller on the board to handle realtime control, without Linux interfering/interrupting) .? But if it's just the "head" for your system you might not have any critical/realtime interaction code on the RPI. Also, while your sub is charging you can have it mining Bitcoins. :) Cheers!? Ian.? -----Original Message----- From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: May 24, 2018 6:45 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update 96Hi Alan, I did not model after anything specific although graphically it does try to replicate military aircraft displays.? Due to limited screen "real estate" it was important to layer information based upon importance.? Those things that I consider essential information appears on the initial display...depth, duration, heading, warnings, and access to engines.? You'll note that depth, duration, and warnings are always displayed regardless of what other information is being displayed.??Graphics is a matter of personal preference.? I do like Cliff's display as well. What I really like about the Raspberry PI is that you have a full Linux OS at your disposal so logging data is easy and accessing the OS via ftp, vnc, or wifi with the latest versions, is all possible.? The wifi capability with VNC means I can even access and control the display with my phone.? On the surface at least, a support team could use their own phones to log into the SCM and monitor my submarine systems.? Just a lot of neat stuff that can be done. From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Great work Jon, must have taken quite a bit of time.I don't think you have too many sensor inputs; I worked out that I?needed 60+ to be ?in line with GL requirements.I looked at the display video & it was quite easy to follow.Did you model that on an existing submarine display?Alan _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu May 24 20:55:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:55:04 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <57741273.14083.1527209704185@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 26 13:23:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 17:23:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance References: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,Today I did some extensive scrubber testing. ?Gamma has 3 axial scrubbers, one is Gamma'a original scrubber from 1971 with a smaller quiet fan. ?The next one is a home made scrubber made the same as Gamma's original, the third is a re-breather scrubber with a computer fan.Interestingly after reading through some information Cliff sent me, I learned that the flow rate is critical. ?The only way I can change that is to fill the scrubber canister more or less. ?I started with 3\4 full canisters and a full re-breather canister and had a CO2 level of 950 PPM. ?With all three canisters full I had a CO2 level of 1133 PPM. ?So clearly the flow rate makes a big difference. ?Now I understand why Gamma's original scrubber had such a big fan, in order for the canister to be full, the fan needs to be quite powerful.I also have a true appreciation of how well the altimeter indicates how well the O2 level and CO2 level are monitored.If the Altimeter was off zero even the tiniest bit, it correlated with the instruments perfectly. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 26 15:38:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 12:38:23 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 26 17:09:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 21:09:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <982962242.5751810.1527368943729@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, When the scrubbers are not all the way full, you want to make sure that they are still compacted such that you don't have any channeling of the air bypassing the scrubber material.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 1:25 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Hi All,Today I did some extensive scrubber testing. ?Gamma has 3 axial scrubbers, one is Gamma'a original scrubber from 1971 with a smaller quiet fan. ?The next one is a home made scrubber made the same as Gamma's original, the third is a re-breather scrubber with a computer fan.Interestingly after reading through some information Cliff sent me, I learned that the flow rate is critical. ?The only way I can change that is to fill the scrubber canister more or less. ?I started with 3\4 full canisters and a full re-breather canister and had a CO2 level of 950 PPM. ?With all three canisters full I had a CO2 level of 1133 PPM. ?So clearly the flow rate makes a big difference. ?Now I understand why Gamma's original scrubber had such a big fan, in order for the canister to be full, the fan needs to be quite powerful.I also have a true appreciation of how well the altimeter indicates how well the O2 level and CO2 level are monitored.If the Altimeter was off zero even the tiniest bit, it correlated with the instruments perfectly. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 26 17:39:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 21:39:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <982962242.5751810.1527368943729@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> <982962242.5751810.1527368943729@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1960001898.1559892.1527370783947@mail.yahoo.com> Al,With Gamma's original scrubber, you just pour the absorbent in and tap the side. ?I could put a screen on top with a weight I suppose.Hank On Saturday, May 26, 2018, 3:09:29 PM MDT, Al Secor via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, When the scrubbers are not all the way full, you want to make sure that they are still compacted such that you don't have any channeling of the air bypassing the scrubber material.?Al Secor From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 1:25 PM Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance Hi All,Today I did some extensive scrubber testing. ?Gamma has 3 axial scrubbers, one is Gamma'a original scrubber from 1971 with a smaller quiet fan. ?The next one is a home made scrubber made the same as Gamma's original, the third is a re-breather scrubber with a computer fan.Interestingly after reading through some information Cliff sent me, I learned that the flow rate is critical. ?The only way I can change that is to fill the scrubber canister more or less. ?I started with 3\4 full canisters and a full re-breather canister and had a CO2 level of 950 PPM. ?With all three canisters full I had a CO2 level of 1133 PPM. ?So clearly the flow rate makes a big difference. ?Now I understand why Gamma's original scrubber had such a big fan, in order for the canister to be full, the fan needs to be quite powerful.I also have a true appreciation of how well the altimeter indicates how well the O2 level and CO2 level are monitored.If the Altimeter was off zero even the tiniest bit, it correlated with the instruments perfectly. ?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat May 26 18:01:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 26 May 2018 17:01:42 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] scrubber performance In-Reply-To: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1412229630.1518363.1527355433060@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Next test is to compare one vs two occupants to see how the unit behaves with added CO2 generation. Cliff On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi All, > Today I did some extensive scrubber testing. Gamma has 3 axial scrubbers, > one is Gamma'a original scrubber from 1971 with a smaller quiet fan. The > next one is a home made scrubber made the same as Gamma's original, the > third is a re-breather scrubber with a computer fan. > Interestingly after reading through some information Cliff sent me, I > learned that the flow rate is critical. The only way I can change that is > to fill the scrubber canister more or less. I started with 3\4 full > canisters and a full re-breather canister and had a CO2 level of 950 PPM. > With all three canisters full I had a CO2 level of 1133 PPM. So clearly > the flow rate makes a big difference. > Now I understand why Gamma's original scrubber had such a big fan, in > order for the canister to be full, the fan needs to be quite powerful. > I also have a true appreciation of how well the altimeter indicates how > well the O2 level and CO2 level are monitored. > If the Altimeter was off zero even the tiniest bit, it correlated with the > instruments perfectly. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun May 27 02:16:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 May 2018 18:16:16 +1200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> Thanks Ian, have forwarded the canbus links to someone who is helping me with the electronics. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 27/05/2018, at 7:38 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Will do. > > Seems like are lots of CANBUS boards for various microcontrollers and bridging other comms protocols (i2c, SPI, USB, etc.) > https://www.robotshop.com/en/arduino-compatible-can-bus-shield.html > http://copperhilltech.com/pican-2-can-interface-for-raspberry-pi-2-3/ > https://www.tindie.com/products/protofusion/canable-usb-to-can-bus-adapter/ > > Cheers, > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: May 24, 2018 9:17 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update > > If you go CANBUS, please post progress. > > Cliff > >> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 10:57 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I'm also considering CANBUS for my subs intercommunication needs. The motor controller I've purchased supports CANBUS (or a few flavors of) out the box. Extending it to other things, light controllers, automated values, sensors seems reasonably tractable using common micro controllers. >> >> Cheers, >> Ian. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: May 24, 2018 8:41 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >> >> Cliff, I have no experience with CANBUS. I'll have to look into it. >> >> >> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:55 AM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update >> >> Nice work Jon. I like the HMI. Just as a comparison, I use on my boat via PLC 54 channels: >> >> Analog input 21 >> RTD inputs 2 >> Digital input 10 >> RS-232 INPUT 3 >> Analog Output 6 >> Digital Output 12 >> PCBs look good. I also use PCB Express. They have always done a good job on boards for me. >> >> OAS >> Have you ever done any work with CANBUS (Control Area Network Bus? This is distributed communication network and protocol used on all modern cars for ECU (Electrical Control Units) to talk with each other. Driver is system robustness and minimizing thick cable harnesses. Always though it would be interesting to set up a psub using CANBUS. >> >> Cliff >> 54 >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> I have finalized the PCB layout for the SCM. Although not really necessary, layering various "breakout boards" onto PCB foundations that use electrical traces to connect various parts will definitely cut down on the mish-mash of wiring that would otherwise be required. I have settled on a configuration providing 16 each of analog, serial, and I2C sensors. This is way more than I ever anticipate needing however it does offer plenty of room for expansion and doesn't cost much more than limiting to 4 or 8 sensors...so why not go for it. >> >> I am using ExpressPCB for the PCB design work. In my prototype I was using an Arduino for sensor data collection and a Raspberry PI for graphic display however I am now thinking about using a second Raspberry PI for data collection to take advantage of the huge difference in processing power available with it compared to the Arduino. >> >> The three PCB boards and microprocessor will be housed together in a "sensor collection box" (hmmm, another acronym opportunity - SCB) and communicate with the graphics microprocessor via USB. >> >> The layout boards can be viewed here >> http://www.subdb.info/ database/vessels/1320788990/ docs/scm_-_pcb_layout.pdf >> >> Click here to see the Submarine Control Manager (SCM) graphical display. >> >> >> Submarine Control Manager (SCM) >> A demo of the latest SCM software I have developed. It provides a graphical display of sensors and allows contro... >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 11:06:53 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 15:06:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> Moved the submarine yesterday (Monday 5/28) from the original 1979 steel trailer to the new aluminum trailer.? Working alone, it took me 8 hours to build the gantry, lift the sub, and swap out the trailers.? No issues however and it all went pretty smoothly.? I have to admit I was a bit nervous about lifting the sub on wood beams, but I had used an online calculator (http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc_ctrpointload.htm)?to determine timber sizes and it turned out to be accurate.? If there was any deflection in the beams it certainly was not noticeable to the naked eye. The submarine is completely stripped and is as light as it is ever going to get.? I have no idea what the actual weight is but I calculated approximately 2500 pounds based upon the amount of steel in the various parts (main cylinder, heads, conning tower, battery pods, etc).? I decided to split that weight between two beams rather than just one so I could use lighter material.? Each beam was created from laminating two 2x10x10 full dimensional planks purchased from a local saw mill which provided a full 4x10x10 beam.? Posts were created by laminating two 2x6x10 planks together to provide full 4x6x10 material.? Lots of bracing here, there, and everywhere.? Looks ugly, but is very solid. I used two 2-ton "come along" manual winches attached to the fore and aft lifting rings then lifted/lowered equally between the two winches.? Once free hanging, the sub did sway a bit since I had to lean on it to get to the winches.? This also made me nervous since too much swaying could bring the gantry down but I was easily able to counter and damper the small sway.? I probably would not have done this on a windy day. The old and new trailers are the same height so I only needed to lift the sub about four inches so that it was free of the c-channel that it rests inside.? Then it was simply a matter of pulling the old trailer out from underneath, backing the new trailer underneath with proper placement, then lowering the sub back down.? Happy to have the sub on a road worthy trailer now. Videos uploaded for your viewing pleasure Episode 3 - Trailer Swap -?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbbFUlKHkU Episode 2 - More Trailer Mods -?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4d0nzWIgYo Episode 1 - Fender Repair -?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3d5BI1vig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 12:46:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Douglas Suhr via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 12:46:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice going Jon! Thanks for the video links... I built a similar gantry arrangement for lifting Snoopy, though I only have one lift beam (steel) on two 6X6 stanchions and a chain hoist. It does the job, though I dream of a true gantry in the shop one day. The new trailer looks like a beaut... I know you've put a lot of effort into the trailer project, but the results look great to me. ~ Doug On 5/29/18, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Moved the submarine yesterday (Monday 5/28) from the original 1979 steel > trailer to the new aluminum trailer. Working alone, it took me 8 hours to > build the gantry, lift the sub, and swap out the trailers. No issues > however and it all went pretty smoothly. I have to admit I was a bit > nervous about lifting the sub on wood beams, but I had used an online > calculator > (http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc_ctrpointload.htm) to > determine timber sizes and it turned out to be accurate. If there was any > deflection in the beams it certainly was not noticeable to the naked eye. > The submarine is completely stripped and is as light as it is ever going to > get. I have no idea what the actual weight is but I calculated > approximately 2500 pounds based upon the amount of steel in the various > parts (main cylinder, heads, conning tower, battery pods, etc). I decided > to split that weight between two beams rather than just one so I could use > lighter material. Each beam was created from laminating two 2x10x10 full > dimensional planks purchased from a local saw mill which provided a full > 4x10x10 beam. Posts were created by laminating two 2x6x10 planks together > to provide full 4x6x10 material. Lots of bracing here, there, and > everywhere. Looks ugly, but is very solid. > I used two 2-ton "come along" manual winches attached to the fore and aft > lifting rings then lifted/lowered equally between the two winches. Once > free hanging, the sub did sway a bit since I had to lean on it to get to the > winches. This also made me nervous since too much swaying could bring the > gantry down but I was easily able to counter and damper the small sway. I > probably would not have done this on a windy day. > The old and new trailers are the same height so I only needed to lift the > sub about four inches so that it was free of the c-channel that it rests > inside. Then it was simply a matter of pulling the old trailer out from > underneath, backing the new trailer underneath with proper placement, then > lowering the sub back down. Happy to have the sub on a road worthy trailer > now. > Videos uploaded for your viewing pleasure > Episode 3 - Trailer Swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbbFUlKHkU > Episode 2 - More Trailer Mods - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4d0nzWIgYo > Episode 1 - Fender Repair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3d5BI1vig > > From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 13:13:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 12:13:24 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Progress! Good to see the boat on the new trailer. Where are you going to do the makeover on the boat? Best Regards Cliff On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Moved the submarine yesterday (Monday 5/28) from the original 1979 steel > trailer to the new aluminum trailer. Working alone, it took me 8 hours to > build the gantry, lift the sub, and swap out the trailers. No issues > however and it all went pretty smoothly. I have to admit I was a bit > nervous about lifting the sub on wood beams, but I had used an online > calculator (http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc_ctrpointload.htm > ) > to determine timber sizes and it turned out to be accurate. If there was > any deflection in the beams it certainly was not noticeable to the naked > eye. > > The submarine is completely stripped and is as light as it is ever going > to get. I have no idea what the actual weight is but I calculated > approximately 2500 pounds based upon the amount of steel in the various > parts (main cylinder, heads, conning tower, battery pods, etc). I decided > to split that weight between two beams rather than just one so I could use > lighter material. Each beam was created from laminating two 2x10x10 full > dimensional planks purchased from a local saw mill which provided a full > 4x10x10 beam. Posts were created by laminating two 2x6x10 planks together > to provide full 4x6x10 material. Lots of bracing here, there, and > everywhere. Looks ugly, but is very solid. > > I used two 2-ton "come along" manual winches attached to the fore and aft > lifting rings then lifted/lowered equally between the two winches. Once > free hanging, the sub did sway a bit since I had to lean on it to get to > the winches. This also made me nervous since too much swaying could bring > the gantry down but I was easily able to counter and damper the small > sway. I probably would not have done this on a windy day. > > The old and new trailers are the same height so I only needed to lift the > sub about four inches so that it was free of the c-channel that it rests > inside. Then it was simply a matter of pulling the old trailer out from > underneath, backing the new trailer underneath with proper placement, then > lowering the sub back down. Happy to have the sub on a road worthy trailer > now. > > Videos uploaded for your viewing pleasure > > Episode 3 - Trailer Swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbbFUlKHkU > > Episode 2 - More Trailer Mods - https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=e4d0nzWIgYo > > Episode 1 - Fender Repair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3d5BI1vig > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 13:25:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 13:25:01 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, good for you making these videos! When I started building subs I proposed to do exactly that and document everything. It's really hard to keep up the discipline, and my plan didn't last long. On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Moved the submarine yesterday (Monday 5/28) from the original 1979 steel > trailer to the new aluminum trailer. Working alone, it took me 8 hours to > build the gantry, lift the sub, and swap out the trailers. No issues > however and it all went pretty smoothly. I have to admit I was a bit > nervous about lifting the sub on wood beams, but I had used an online > calculator (http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc_ctrpointload.htm > ) > to determine timber sizes and it turned out to be accurate. If there was > any deflection in the beams it certainly was not noticeable to the naked > eye. > > The submarine is completely stripped and is as light as it is ever going > to get. I have no idea what the actual weight is but I calculated > approximately 2500 pounds based upon the amount of steel in the various > parts (main cylinder, heads, conning tower, battery pods, etc). I decided > to split that weight between two beams rather than just one so I could use > lighter material. Each beam was created from laminating two 2x10x10 full > dimensional planks purchased from a local saw mill which provided a full > 4x10x10 beam. Posts were created by laminating two 2x6x10 planks together > to provide full 4x6x10 material. Lots of bracing here, there, and > everywhere. Looks ugly, but is very solid. > > I used two 2-ton "come along" manual winches attached to the fore and aft > lifting rings then lifted/lowered equally between the two winches. Once > free hanging, the sub did sway a bit since I had to lean on it to get to > the winches. This also made me nervous since too much swaying could bring > the gantry down but I was easily able to counter and damper the small > sway. I probably would not have done this on a windy day. > > The old and new trailers are the same height so I only needed to lift the > sub about four inches so that it was free of the c-channel that it rests > inside. Then it was simply a matter of pulling the old trailer out from > underneath, backing the new trailer underneath with proper placement, then > lowering the sub back down. Happy to have the sub on a road worthy trailer > now. > > Videos uploaded for your viewing pleasure > > Episode 3 - Trailer Swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbbFUlKHkU > > Episode 2 - More Trailer Mods - https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=e4d0nzWIgYo > > Episode 1 - Fender Repair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3d5BI1vig > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 14:52:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 18:52:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: References: <753079413.2892.1527363503409@wamui-eagle.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <994F91DA-6F0E-4F8B-AA12-539D4B8EBBE0@yahoo.com> <754990455.6446775.1527606413670@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <730522350.6597092.1527619928973@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, I always have good intentions but as I am sure you know, stopping to turn on/off the camera really interrupts the work flow and so I'm not as disciplined at catching footage as I should.? For example, I should have captured rolling the old trailer out like I did rolling the new trailer in. Cliff, sub mods will happen right here in the old driveway fighting off black flies and mosquitoes.? I really wish I could find a cheap garage to protect me from the elements but also so I don't have to keep dragging tools in/out of the house all the time. Doug, I would love to have a permanent gantry but don't have the space for it.? This wooden gantry will be torn down this week since I'm already tired of looking at it.? If I ever need a gantry again I will rebuild it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 14:52:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 11:52:50 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Message-ID: <1079986873.8025.1527619970328@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 15:08:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 09:08:45 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1079986873.8025.1527619970328@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1079986873.8025.1527619970328@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Jon, You might look into a fabric structure that has aluminum tube support and structure and they even come with sides if you want them. They keep the weather off you and a lot cheaper than a metal or wood frame building. A lot of people use them here in Hawaii to park cars under and a lot of other uses. Just spoke with my friend and looks like he just lost his house to Madam Pele last night?. Rick On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 8:52 AM, irox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Nice videos! Thanks for making them! And thanks for sharing progress - I > find these updates very motivating and help me remember I get on with my > projects too. > > I've recently ordered a 2000lb Aluminum Gantry Crane. I figure the > biggest chance of accident with when moving the sub. I had originally > planned on moving it with two engine hoists, but this look like a recipe > for problems. Also, since I'm normally working on my sub alone, I need > something I can safely use by myself. I should be able to set it up by > myself inside my garage. > > Cheers! > Ian. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: May 29, 2018 8:06 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update > > 96 > Moved the submarine yesterday (Monday 5/28) from the original 1979 steel > trailer to the new aluminum trailer. Working alone, it took me 8 hours to > build the gantry, lift the sub, and swap out the trailers. No issues > however and it all went pretty smoothly. I have to admit I was a bit > nervous about lifting the sub on wood beams, but I had used an online > calculator (http://forestryforum.com/members/donp/beamclc_ctrpointload.htm > ) > to determine timber sizes and it turned out to be accurate. If there was > any deflection in the beams it certainly was not noticeable to the naked > eye. > > The submarine is completely stripped and is as light as it is ever going > to get. I have no idea what the actual weight is but I calculated > approximately 2500 pounds based upon the amount of steel in the various > parts (main cylinder, heads, conning tower, battery pods, etc). I decided > to split that weight between two beams rather than just one so I could use > lighter material. Each beam was created from laminating two 2x10x10 full > dimensional planks purchased from a local saw mill which provided a full > 4x10x10 beam. Posts were created by laminating two 2x6x10 planks together > to provide full 4x6x10 material. Lots of bracing here, there, and > everywhere. Looks ugly, but is very solid. > > I used two 2-ton "come along" manual winches attached to the fore and aft > lifting rings then lifted/lowered equally between the two winches. Once > free hanging, the sub did sway a bit since I had to lean on it to get to > the winches. This also made me nervous since too much swaying could bring > the gantry down but I was easily able to counter and damper the small > sway. I probably would not have done this on a windy day. > > The old and new trailers are the same height so I only needed to lift the > sub about four inches so that it was free of the c-channel that it rests > inside. Then it was simply a matter of pulling the old trailer out from > underneath, backing the new trailer underneath with proper placement, then > lowering the sub back down. Happy to have the sub on a road worthy trailer > now. > > Videos uploaded for your viewing pleasure > > Episode 3 - Trailer Swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLbbFUlKHkU > > Episode 2 - More Trailer Mods - https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=e4d0nzWIgYo > > Episode 1 - Fender Repair - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3d5BI1vig > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 15:13:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 19:13:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1079986873.8025.1527619970328@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <1079986873.8025.1527619970328@wamui-albus.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1199716372.6602039.1527621198564@mail.yahoo.com> I agree 100% Ian.?? From: irox via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ; Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update Nice videos!? Thanks for making them!? And thanks for sharing progress - I find these updates very motivating and help me remember I get on with my projects too. I've recently ordered a 2000lb Aluminum Gantry Crane.? I figure the biggest chance of accident with when moving the sub.? I had originally planned on moving it with two engine hoists, but this look like a recipe for problems.? Also, since I'm normally working on my sub alone, I need something I can safely use by myself.? I should be able to set it up by myself inside my garage. Cheers! ? Ian. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue May 29 17:51:49 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 21:51:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] DSV Aquatic update In-Reply-To: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1317270897.786616.1526258411336.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1317270897.786616.1526258411336@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1277829376.2529412.1527630709062@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,Nice video's, you could always make a loading dock now that it is on a permanent trailer. ?A loading dock with metal rails (channels) ?would be slick. ?You can just roll the sub back onto the dock and have easy access to work on the sub.Hank On Sunday, May 13, 2018, 6:41:51 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have completed most of my trailer modifications except for additional cross-members which should arrive mid-week.? For the record, I would never purchase a used trailer again.? I thought I had found a pretty good deal on an aluminum boat trailer that could easily be converted for the submarine but unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth.? So far I have $3500 into a 10 year old trailer and could have bought a shiny new one for $3800.? Aggravates the hell out of me but lesson learned.? My advice, don't follow in my footsteps. Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: