From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 00:43:25 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:43:25 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress Message-ID: <20180930214325.EED32EF9@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 04:25:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 21:25:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress In-Reply-To: <20180930214325.EED32EF9@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180930214325.EED32EF9@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, I know what you mean about fibreglass. Some jobs you wonder why you ever started. Not going to win any popularity contests here but I remember on one of your in water tests you lowered the sub into the water with some straps around her & didn't submerge fully because you thought it was getting unstable. Would it be better to use the straps again in case the sub decided to turn upside down during descent ( would not be the first sub to do this). If it flipped in shallow water with the hatch buried in the mud you would need assistance to get out. Be great to see you finally get her under the water. Cheers Alan > On 1/10/2018, at 5:43 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Psubbers, > Making progress on my gel coat shell. Would not wish this work on anybody ! a lot of sanding , but I've finished the first phase and things are looking good ! If anybody needs a shell of this dimension I'll be able to crank them out like crazy ! > > I also realized that this fiberglass shell could actually have a purpose other than cosmetic ! Once I have it on I would be able to place additional floats inside of it in the unlikely event that I still don't have enough buoyancy up front ! But I don't think that will be the case. > > I also have an idea of how I can test my sub without having to use the boatyard. I think what I'll do is just sink her right at the launch ramp ! At least I can just say that I'm balancing things out or whatever. My strategy will be to just dink around for a really long time at the launch ramp ( during the week) until the harbor patrol gets bored or has go on a call , then I'll just pull the cork ! > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 08:13:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:13:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress In-Reply-To: <20180930214325.EED32EF9@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20180930214325.EED32EF9@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: <421345772.2678723.1538395982522@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Brian,Fibreglass panels will make your sub. ?I hope your first sink is un-manned.Hank On Sunday, September 30, 2018, 10:43:39 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Psubbers,????????????????????????????? Making progress on my gel coat shell.? Would not wish this work on anybody !?? a lot of sanding ,? but I've finished the first phase and things are looking good !?? If anybody needs a shell of this dimension I'll be able to crank them out like crazy !??I also realized that this fiberglass shell could actually have a purpose other than cosmetic !??? Once I have it on I would be able to place additional floats inside of it in the unlikely event that I still don't have enough buoyancy up front !??But I don't think that will be the case.?I also have an idea of how I can test my sub without having to use the boatyard.? I think what I'll do is just sink her right at the?launch ramp !?? At least I can just say that I'm balancing things out or whatever.? My strategy will be to just dink around for a really long time at the launch ramp ( during the week) ?until the harbor patrol gets bored or has?go on a call ,? then?I'll just pull the?cork !????Brian??_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 10:35:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 07:35:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress Message-ID: <20181001073504.EED3F830@m0117164.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 14:09:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 07:09:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress In-Reply-To: <20181001073504.EED3F830@m0117164.ppops.net> References: <20181001073504.EED3F830@m0117164.ppops.net> Message-ID: <5EACD994-7C83-4BBA-9381-241E42FA11A2@yahoo.com> Hi Brian, I sent an email but it hasn't returned so repeating this. I remember you lowering the sub in a cradle & you had reservations as it was getting unstable as it sank. Maybe that cradle would be a good idea if you are trying to go under. My fear is that if you descended & she toppled over you wouldn't be able to right her. If it was shallow you may not be able to escape through the hatch if it is against the sea bed. Cheers Alan > On 2/10/2018, at 3:35 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I was thinking I could sink down slowly. But of course things can happen quite quickly. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:13:02 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Brian, > Fibreglass panels will make your sub. I hope your first sink is un-manned. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, 10:43:39 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Psubbers, > Making progress on my gel coat shell. Would not wish this work on anybody ! a lot of sanding , but I've finished the first phase and things are looking good ! If anybody needs a shell of this dimension I'll be able to crank them out like crazy ! > > I also realized that this fiberglass shell could actually have a purpose other than cosmetic ! Once I have it on I would be able to place additional floats inside of it in the unlikely event that I still don't have enough buoyancy up front ! But I don't think that will be the case. > > I also have an idea of how I can test my sub without having to use the boatyard. I think what I'll do is just sink her right at the launch ramp ! At least I can just say that I'm balancing things out or whatever. My strategy will be to just dink around for a really long time at the launch ramp ( during the week) until the harbor patrol gets bored or has go on a call , then I'll just pull the cork ! > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 16:10:41 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 13:10:41 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress Message-ID: <20181001131041.30BED51A@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 16:13:17 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:13:17 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors Message-ID: <27091735-C40E-44D0-90DB-7B7CA0DC73BB@yahoo.com> Just had these 2 tiny motors delivered from Blue Robotics, California. They are brushless outrunner motors that are sealed with epoxy & have corrosion resistant bearings. 135 & 359W. The black can rotates & the silver end is attached via it's 4 threaded holes, either directly to a mount or by using a standard radio control bracket. Wires are soldered on to the 3 pads & sealed with marine epoxy. These would be great for rotating a camera or other external functions on a sub. They are usually used to power rovs & are sold as a unit with kort nozzle & prop. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 329915 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 20:45:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:45:39 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors In-Reply-To: <27091735-C40E-44D0-90DB-7B7CA0DC73BB@yahoo.com> References: <27091735-C40E-44D0-90DB-7B7CA0DC73BB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, That seems like a lot of watts for an arm for a camera mount. How big is the camera? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 1:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Just had these 2 tiny motors delivered from Blue Robotics, California. > They are brushless outrunner motors that are sealed with epoxy & have > corrosion resistant bearings. 135 & 359W. The black can rotates & the > silver > end is attached via it's 4 threaded holes, either directly to a mount or by > using a standard radio control bracket. Wires are soldered on to the 3 > pads & sealed with marine epoxy. > These would be great for rotating a camera or other external functions > on a sub. They are usually used to power rovs & are sold as a unit with > kort nozzle & prop. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 21:43:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 14:43:16 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors In-Reply-To: References: <27091735-C40E-44D0-90DB-7B7CA0DC73BB@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi David, I don't have any plans for a camera gimbal at this stage. I do want to make a manipulator with a video camera on the wrist though. I was suggesting it as a good option for driving a camera gimbal because it's small & designed to go in seawater. Blue Robotics also suggest it could be used for this. It is over powered but could be geared (with plastic gears) to operate at a suitable speed, or operated at a low voltage. I don't know of anything out there like it, & it would be an alternative to having to make a housing for a small motor. Cheers Alan > On 2/10/2018, at 1:45 PM, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alan, That seems like a lot of watts for an arm for a camera mount. How big is the camera? > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > >> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 1:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Just had these 2 tiny motors delivered from Blue Robotics, California. >> They are brushless outrunner motors that are sealed with epoxy & have >> corrosion resistant bearings. 135 & 359W. The black can rotates & the silver >> end is attached via it's 4 threaded holes, either directly to a mount or by >> using a standard radio control bracket. Wires are soldered on to the 3 >> pads & sealed with marine epoxy. >> These would be great for rotating a camera or other external functions >> on a sub. They are usually used to power rovs & are sold as a unit with >> kort nozzle & prop. >> Alan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 1 22:31:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 19:31:48 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors Message-ID: <20181001193148.30BEC3A4@m0117458.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 2 15:26:50 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:26:50 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress Message-ID: <20181002122650.30C18D9A@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 2 15:31:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:31:38 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors In-Reply-To: <20181001193148.30BEC3A4@m0117458.ppops.net> References: <20181001193148.30BEC3A4@m0117458.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, the pressure hull is still in petaluma at the fab shop for the next couple of weeks. I can go there any time during the week days. Let me know when you'd be in the area, and we could meet there. David On Mon, Oct 1, 2018, 7:32 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey David, I'm going to be heading up your way in a couple > of weeks, mind if I stop by and check out your progress ? Also may have > to have a couple of beers with Ian ! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 17:45:39 -0700 > > Hi Alan, That seems like a lot of watts for an arm for a camera mount. How > big is the camera? > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 1:14 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Just had these 2 tiny motors delivered from Blue Robotics, California. > They are brushless outrunner motors that are sealed with epoxy & have > corrosion resistant bearings. 135 & 359W. The black can rotates & the > silver > end is attached via it's 4 threaded holes, either directly to a mount or by > using a standard radio control bracket. Wires are soldered on to the 3 > pads & sealed with marine epoxy. > These would be great for rotating a camera or other external functions > on a sub. They are usually used to power rovs & are sold as a unit with > kort nozzle & prop. > Alan > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 2 15:45:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 12:45:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Brushless Underwater Motors Message-ID: <20181002124535.30C06655@m0117460.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 01:14:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:14:36 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress In-Reply-To: <20181002122650.30C18D9A@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20181002122650.30C18D9A@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: <99D7E29E-B8B0-4A04-AED8-F97AE5463931@yahoo.com> Brian, hope it comes off ok! Would like to see a pic of it. Just sent my latest motor housing to the anodiser today. Should be pool testing the thruster in the near future. Alan > On 3/10/2018, at 8:26 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Just applied tooling gel coat to my plug. Scary stuff, two weeks worth of sanding and polishing and then smearing black gel coat all over my nicely polished shell !! > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 07:09:23 +1300 > > Hi Brian, > I sent an email but it hasn't returned so repeating this. > I remember you lowering the sub in a cradle & you had reservations > as it was getting unstable as it sank. Maybe that cradle would be a good > idea if you are trying to go under. > My fear is that if you descended & she toppled over you wouldn't be able > to right her. If it was shallow you may not be able to escape through the > hatch if it is against the sea bed. > Cheers Alan > > > On 2/10/2018, at 3:35 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I was thinking I could sink down slowly. But of course things can happen quite quickly. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress > Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 12:13:02 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi Brian, > Fibreglass panels will make your sub. I hope your first sink is un-manned. > Hank > > On Sunday, September 30, 2018, 10:43:39 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Psubbers, > Making progress on my gel coat shell. Would not wish this work on anybody ! a lot of sanding , but I've finished the first phase and things are looking good ! If anybody needs a shell of this dimension I'll be able to crank them out like crazy ! > > I also realized that this fiberglass shell could actually have a purpose other than cosmetic ! Once I have it on I would be able to place additional floats inside of it in the unlikely event that I still don't have enough buoyancy up front ! But I don't think that will be the case. > > I also have an idea of how I can test my sub without having to use the boatyard. I think what I'll do is just sink her right at the launch ramp ! At least I can just say that I'm balancing things out or whatever. My strategy will be to just dink around for a really long time at the launch ramp ( during the week) until the harbor patrol gets bored or has go on a call , then I'll just pull the cork ! > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 02:02:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 23:02:03 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] making progress Message-ID: <20181002230203.30C1DDC2@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 04:06:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 08:06:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motor References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 04:53:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:53:09 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> Hank, yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil in around the motor. Am learning a lot on each attempt. Alan > On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 08:34:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:34:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 14:32:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:32:28 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> Hank, I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been around for a long time. Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. Alan > On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. > I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established > that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite > a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating > back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, > but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil > in around the motor. > Am learning a lot on each attempt. > Alan > > > >> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 316699 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 16:29:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 20:29:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that itkeeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.I am not confident though; however oil compensation has beenaround for a long time.?Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the?pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 316699 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 17:08:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:08:37 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be making any rapid progress on this :(. Alan > On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it > keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) > The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. > I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been > around for a long time. > Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the > pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. > Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. > Alan > > >> On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. >> I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established >> that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite >> a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating >> back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, >> but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil >> in around the motor. >> Am learning a lot on each attempt. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 19:23:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 23:23:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. ?I use this method as a water ?trap for my steam engine, under pressure.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that theoil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wiresare epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubingcontinues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oillevel switch, so there should always be oil in the line.There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you?dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sortof oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then myother daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't bemaking any rapid progress on this :(.?Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that itkeeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.I am not confident though; however oil compensation has beenaround for a long time.?Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the?pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 3 21:12:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:12:39 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. Alan > On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the > oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires > are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing > continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil > level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. > There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you > dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort > of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. > I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my > other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be > making any rapid progress on this :(. > Alan > > > >> On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it >> keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) >> The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. >> I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been >> around for a long time. >> Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the >> pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. >> Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. >>> I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established >>> that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite >>> a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating >>> back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, >>> but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil >>> in around the motor. >>> Am learning a lot on each attempt. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 07:40:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. ? ?The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. ?I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. ?The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. ?Seems to work real nice and is quick to make.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see ifadditional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensorin the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry.Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother?I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox& underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive.Alan? On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. ?I use this method as a water ?trap for my steam engine, under pressure.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that theoil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wiresare epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubingcontinues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oillevel switch, so there should always be oil in the line.There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you?dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sortof oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then myother daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't bemaking any rapid progress on this :(.?Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that itkeeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.I am not confident though; however oil compensation has beenaround for a long time.?Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the?pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 15:49:45 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 08:49:45 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :) Alan > On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. Seems to work real nice and is quick to make. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if > additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor > in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. > Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? > I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox > & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. > Alan > >> On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the >> oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires >> are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing >> continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil >> level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. >> There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you >> dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort >> of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. >> I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my >> other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be >> making any rapid progress on this :(. >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it >>> keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) >>> The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. >>> I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been >>> around for a long time. >>> Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the >>> pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. >>> Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. >>>> I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established >>>> that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite >>>> a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating >>>> back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, >>>> but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil >>>> in around the motor. >>>> Am learning a lot on each attempt. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 16:28:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:28:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature.?Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing& as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive.?I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :)Alan On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. ? ?The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. ?I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. ?The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. ?Seems to work real nice and is quick to make.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see ifadditional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensorin the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry.Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother?I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox& underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive.Alan? On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. ?I use this method as a water ?trap for my steam engine, under pressure.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that theoil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wiresare epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubingcontinues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oillevel switch, so there should always be oil in the line.There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you?dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sortof oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then myother daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't bemaking any rapid progress on this :(.?Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that itkeeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.I am not confident though; however oil compensation has beenaround for a long time.?Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the?pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 19:43:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 12:43:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> Hank, yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor & ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft I made for it......am learning. Alan > On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. > Hank > > On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Hank, > I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing > & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. > I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :) > Alan > > >> On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. Seems to work real nice and is quick to make. >> Hank >> >> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if >> additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor >> in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. >> Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? >> I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox >> & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. >> Alan >> >>> On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the >>> oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires >>> are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing >>> continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil >>> level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. >>> There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you >>> dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort >>> of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. >>> I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my >>> other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be >>> making any rapid progress on this :(. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it >>>> keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) >>>> The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. >>>> I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been >>>> around for a long time. >>>> Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the >>>> pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. >>>> Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. >>>>> I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established >>>>> that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite >>>>> a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating >>>>> back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, >>>>> but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil >>>>> in around the motor. >>>>> Am learning a lot on each attempt. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 19:52:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:52:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <382240088.139304.1538697159310@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,If it was easy,,, well you know?Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor &ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the linewhen the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must havereally cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they couldbe moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board wasglued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whackcausing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaftI made for it......am learning.Alan On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature.?Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank,I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing& as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive.?I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :)Alan On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. ? ?The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. ?I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. ?The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. ?Seems to work real nice and is quick to make.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see ifadditional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensorin the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry.Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother?I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox& underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive.Alan? On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. ?I use this method as a water ?trap for my steam engine, under pressure.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that theoil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wiresare epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubingcontinues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oillevel switch, so there should always be oil in the line.There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you?dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sortof oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then myother daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't bemaking any rapid progress on this :(.?Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that itkeeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.I am not confident though; however oil compensation has beenaround for a long time.?Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the?pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. ?The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & establishedthat it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite?a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating?back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oilin around the motor.?Am learning a lot on each attempt.Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. ?I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. ?Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 20:40:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:40:42 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <382240088.139304.1538697159310@mail.yahoo.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> <382240088.139304.1538697159310@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <070301d45c44$0e5f11b0$2b1d3510$@gmail.com> Alan, What comes to mind is the old biblical proverb. Saul, Saul, why kickest thou against the pricks! You?re a tiger for punishment. But I guess learning always comes at a price. At least it is interesting and we are having fun. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 12:53 PM To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor Alan, If it was easy,,, well you know Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor & ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft I made for it......am learning. Alan On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank, I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :) Alan On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. Seems to work real nice and is quick to make. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be making any rapid progress on this :(. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been around for a long time. Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil in around the motor. Am learning a lot on each attempt. Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 21:36:38 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:36:38 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: <070301d45c44$0e5f11b0$2b1d3510$@gmail.com> References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> <382240088.139304.1538697159310@mail.yahoo.com> <070301d45c44$0e5f11b0$2b1d3510$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hugh, it seemed simple to begin with! I still feel the concept of using an outrunner motor is good because of the high torque that eliminates the need for a gearbox. Heat is definitely the big enemy of these small motors & I found they can maintain temperature in oil running them at close to 2hp. That's in a bucket of oil! There are people using them oil compensated in underwater linear actuators & they expound the virtues of being able to get a lot of power from a small package using these motors. I am nearly there! Alan > On 5/10/2018, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > What comes to mind is the old biblical proverb. > > Saul, Saul, why kickest thou against the pricks! > > You?re a tiger for punishment. But I guess learning always comes at a price. > At least it is interesting and we are having fun. > > Cheers, Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 12:53 PM > To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor > > Alan, > If it was easy,,, well you know > Hank > > On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor & > ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line > when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have > really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could > be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was > glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack > causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft > I made for it......am learning. > Alan > > > > On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. > Hank > > On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Hank, > I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing > & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. > I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :) > Alan > > > On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. Seems to work real nice and is quick to make. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if > additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor > in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. > Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? > I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox > & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. > Alan > > On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the > oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires > are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing > continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil > level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. > There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you > dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort > of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. > I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my > other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be > making any rapid progress on this :(. > Alan > > > > On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it > keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) > The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. > I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been > around for a long time. > Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the > pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. > Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. > Alan > > > On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. > Hank > > On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. > I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established > that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite > a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating > back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, > but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil > in around the motor. > Am learning a lot on each attempt. > Alan > > > > On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Oct 4 21:59:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:59:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor In-Reply-To: References: <931866924.3936098.1538553991083.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <931866924.3936098.1538553991083@mail.yahoo.com> <39B0E0D1-2B42-44EE-AA2A-8DE91E77A126@yahoo.com> <2093829255.4001387.1538570061602@mail.yahoo.com> <074B579F-4665-4887-9F51-255A1A984512@yahoo.com> <1892712210.4330226.1538598582839@mail.yahoo.com> <278941269.4395965.1538609026422@mail.yahoo.com> <1157345475.4628937.1538653221747@mail.yahoo.com> <8AF55CE7-BBB9-4BE2-8D36-C6CA5D3AA50D@yahoo.com> <651496164.14493.1538684918543@mail.yahoo.com> <80B4934D-2321-4D0E-BC2C-21EF3D9F0230@yahoo.com> <382240088.139304.1538697159310@mail.yahoo.com> <070301d45c44$0e5f11b0$2b1d3510$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <072d01d45c4f$0099fad0$01cdf070$@gmail.com> Alan, Keep it up. I wish I were doing it. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 2:37 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor Hugh, it seemed simple to begin with! I still feel the concept of using an outrunner motor is good because of the high torque that eliminates the need for a gearbox. Heat is definitely the big enemy of these small motors & I found they can maintain temperature in oil running them at close to 2hp. That's in a bucket of oil! There are people using them oil compensated in underwater linear actuators & they expound the virtues of being able to get a lot of power from a small package using these motors. I am nearly there! Alan On 5/10/2018, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, What comes to mind is the old biblical proverb. Saul, Saul, why kickest thou against the pricks! You?re a tiger for punishment. But I guess learning always comes at a price. At least it is interesting and we are having fun. Cheers, Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 12:53 PM To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor Alan, If it was easy,,, well you know Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor & ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft I made for it......am learning. Alan On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. Hank On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Hank, I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :) Alan On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor. The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC. I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member. The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin. Seems to work real nice and is quick to make. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry. Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother? I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it. I use this method as a water trap for my steam engine, under pressure. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil level switch, so there should always be oil in the line. There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have. I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be making any rapid progress on this :(. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out) The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level. I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been around for a long time. Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the pressure won't be able to escape on ascent. Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller. Alan On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube. The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil. Hank On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version. I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube, but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil in around the motor. Am learning a lot on each attempt. Alan On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, your patience is amazing. I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing. Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 6 01:11:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hank Pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 19:11:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] (no subject) Message-ID: <201810060511.w965BKN5069019@whoweb.com> Hank Pronk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 10 13:32:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:32:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] =?utf-8?q?Submarines_for_Sale?= Message-ID: <20181010173251.23704.qmail@server268.com> Hello everyone. I have two Kitteredge 350 submarines for sale The first is a K-350 that is half built and includes most of the componets such as the hull, hatch, battery pods, thrusters, oxygen bottles, ballast tanks, lights, roller rack, and blue prints. The main hull, hatch, conn, and ballast tanks are already put together. It should be a pretty quick build to finish if you have plumbing and electrical expereince. I am asking $15,000 for this The other is a KW-350 "Trustworthy" which is a turn key dive ready 2 person submarine with all the bells and whistles Side scan sonar, underwater communications, GPS navigation, emergency buoy, 72 hours of life support with 2 independent banks, 2 independent battery banks, 2 independent ballast air banks, adjustable emergency drop weights, 10,000 lumen head light, (4) 2800 lumen flood lights, O2 meter, camera mounting system for lots of film options, underwater camera with pressure housing, custom built trailer that the whole dive package fits onto, trailer extension for launching, all the surface gear needed such as communication console, etc. I am asking $78,000 for the full dive package (offers welcome) http://www.psubs.org/projects/1245611411/kw350trustworthy/ Thank you, Scott Waters From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 10 14:18:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 14:18:04 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Submarines for Sale In-Reply-To: <20181010173251.23704.qmail@server268.com> References: <20181010173251.23704.qmail@server268.com> Message-ID: Time for an endorsement... I've dived Trustworthy, and she's a good boat! Everything exactly as it should be, well built, nice workmanship, and properly tested. Best, Alec On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:34 PM via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hello everyone. I have two Kitteredge 350 submarines for sale > > The first is a K-350 that is half built and includes most of the componets > such as the hull, hatch, battery pods, thrusters, oxygen bottles, ballast > tanks, lights, roller rack, and blue prints. The main hull, hatch, conn, > and ballast tanks are already put together. It should be a pretty quick > build to finish if you have plumbing and electrical expereince. > > I am asking $15,000 for this > > The other is a KW-350 "Trustworthy" which is a turn key dive ready 2 > person submarine with all the bells and whistles > Side scan sonar, underwater communications, GPS navigation, emergency > buoy, 72 hours of life support with 2 independent banks, 2 independent > battery banks, 2 independent ballast air banks, adjustable emergency drop > weights, 10,000 lumen head light, (4) 2800 lumen flood lights, O2 meter, > camera mounting system for lots of film options, underwater camera with > pressure housing, custom built trailer that the whole dive package fits > onto, trailer extension for launching, all the surface gear needed such as > communication console, etc. > > I am asking $78,000 for the full dive package (offers welcome) > > http://www.psubs.org/projects/1245611411/kw350trustworthy/ > > Thank you, > Scott Waters > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 14 16:03:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 20:03:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,What OTS parts do I need to buy to be able to talk directly to a second OTS equipped sub. ?I will want to be able to talk to Cliff and the surface on our next dive mission.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 14 17:51:44 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:51:44 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, A surface station is part number STX-101. This can be used on the surface or installed in a sub. It uses a hand-held mic and has a speaker. A diver unit such as SSB-2010 is much smaller and of course submersible, but it can also be installed in a sub or used as a surface station with the addition of a ?surface conversion kit? (part number CDK-6). This conversion kit consists of headphones with a boom mic, and a cable so the transducer doesn?t have to be on the unit itself. No matter how many units and whether they are on the surface or in subs, everyone will be able to communicate if you use the same channel. The choice between STX-101 or SSB-2010 comes down, in my opinion, to the space in the sub and whether it?s a 1 person sub. If it?s a 1 person, using a headset and boom mic works well. That?s what Cliff has in R300. The SSB is good because it?s more rugged, takes up way less space, and is cheaper. If you have a larger, multi-person sub, the STX might be better because without the headset you can communicate better with others inside the sub. The headsets are not conducive to conversation in the cabin, because they?re intended to isolate you from ambient noises. You can?t just plug in something like earbuds. Personally I used to use an SSB with headset, but as Snoopy was a 2 person I left it off my head to facilitate conversation in the sub. The headset has a line out jack, and I used a tiny Radio Shack amp so I could hear if the surface was calling and put the headset on only when necessary. Now, I?ve ditched the headset altogether and still use the little Radio Shack amp along with a hand held mic that I adapted to the SSB with a custom interface. I also use an SSB as a surface station, although in that case it was just to save money! Best, Alec > On Oct 14, 2018, at 4:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > What OTS parts do I need to buy to be able to talk directly to a second OTS equipped sub. I will want to be able to talk to Cliff and the surface on our next dive mission. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 14 18:05:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:05:51 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf This link is to a drawing I made that details both the OTS and VHF gear I use on my boat. Would be great for us to be able to communicate when we are at Flathead lake next year assuming the exposition makes. Cliff Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 14, 2018, at 3:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > What OTS parts do I need to buy to be able to talk directly to a second OTS equipped sub. I will want to be able to talk to Cliff and the surface on our next dive mission. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 14 19:23:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 23:23:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Guys,Yes it is a must that we can communicate. ?I only intend to have a sub unit, not surface. ?If I find a great deal on another brand like Ocean Reef or whatever, will the work together?Hank On Sunday, October 14, 2018, 4:06:11 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf This link is to a drawing I made that details both the OTS and VHF gear I use on my boat. Would be great for us to be able to communicate when we are at Flathead lake next year assuming the exposition makes. Cliff Sent from my iPhone On Oct 14, 2018, at 3:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,What OTS parts do I need to buy to be able to talk directly to a second OTS equipped sub. ?I will want to be able to talk to Cliff and the surface on our next dive mission.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 14 23:00:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 17:00:05 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank I would think that any manufacturer of this type of device would work with any other manufacturer assuming that they both offer the same frequency in their selection of freaks offered? Would love to hear from anyone out there that has used the OTS system in the past preferably in warm water that can comment on how far there units worked with clearity. Rick On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 1:24 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Guys, > Yes it is a must that we can communicate. I only intend to have a sub > unit, not surface. If I find a great deal on another brand like Ocean Reef > or whatever, will the work together? > Hank > > On Sunday, October 14, 2018, 4:06:11 PM MDT, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf > > > > This link is to a drawing I made that details both the OTS and VHF gear I > use on my boat. > > > Would be great for us to be able to communicate when we are at Flathead > lake next year assuming the exposition makes. > > > Cliff > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 14, 2018, at 3:03 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > What OTS parts do I need to buy to be able to talk directly to a second > OTS equipped sub. I will want to be able to talk to Cliff and the surface > on our next dive mission. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 10:12:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:12:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, we used OTS in the Florida Keys back in 2013 and it was fine however I don't recall what the range was. I will be using the STX in my K600 but only because I already have one, and have space in the cabin for it although it does take up a surprising amount of interior real estate.? I have noted before, and will again, that I have found a dramatic difference in audio quality between the "stock" STX and SSB with the SSB being superior.? I suspect this is because the STX has it's speaker wrapped in plastic to make it splash-proof which interferes with audio quality.? I am hoping that with headphones or external speaker the audio quality goes way up. The STX is easier to modify because it uses banana-clips for microphone and headset, however with the right adapter it would be easy to modify the SSB as well if you wanted to use a different set of headphones, microphone, or even external speaker.? For PSUBS purposes, the SSB with surface kit is more adaptable than the STX. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 12:57:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 09:57:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I have a number of extra head sets and mics for the SSB101 that I bought. I am going to be using the SSB101 Base and the SSB2010 unit in the SeaQuestor. I have already purchased the parts I needed to adapt the headsets to the SSB2010 unit. See Cliffs wiring schematic for a parts list should you wish to adapt the two together. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, we used OTS in the Florida Keys back in 2013 and it was fine however > I don't recall what the range was. > > I will be using the STX in my K600 but only because I already have one, > and have space in the cabin for it although it does take up a surprising > amount of interior real estate. I have noted before, and will again, that > I have found a dramatic difference in audio quality between the "stock" STX > and SSB with the SSB being superior. I suspect this is because the STX has > it's speaker wrapped in plastic to make it splash-proof which interferes > with audio quality. I am hoping that with headphones or external speaker > the audio quality goes way up. > > The STX is easier to modify because it uses banana-clips for microphone > and headset, however with the right adapter it would be easy to modify the > SSB as well if you wanted to use a different set of headphones, microphone, > or even external speaker. For PSUBS purposes, the SSB with surface kit is > more adaptable than the STX. > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 13:16:19 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 07:16:19 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon Do you remember about how deep you got beneath your support boat? The reason I ask is that some time ago a technician at OTS when asked what the range should be for that unit in tropical water and I believe he said around 175? or so which surprised me as that?s only half of the rated working depth of my 350. Rick On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 6:58 AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Hank, > I have a number of extra head sets and mics for the SSB101 that I bought. > I am going to be using the SSB101 Base and the SSB2010 unit in the > SeaQuestor. I have already purchased the parts I needed to adapt the > headsets to the SSB2010 unit. See Cliffs wiring schematic for a parts list > should you wish to adapt the two together. > > > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:13 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, we used OTS in the Florida Keys back in 2013 and it was fine >> however I don't recall what the range was. >> >> I will be using the STX in my K600 but only because I already have one, >> and have space in the cabin for it although it does take up a surprising >> amount of interior real estate. I have noted before, and will again, that >> I have found a dramatic difference in audio quality between the "stock" STX >> and SSB with the SSB being superior. I suspect this is because the STX has >> it's speaker wrapped in plastic to make it splash-proof which interferes >> with audio quality. I am hoping that with headphones or external speaker >> the audio quality goes way up. >> >> The STX is easier to modify because it uses banana-clips for microphone >> and headset, however with the right adapter it would be easy to modify the >> SSB as well if you wanted to use a different set of headphones, microphone, >> or even external speaker. For PSUBS purposes, the SSB with surface kit is >> more adaptable than the STX. >> >> Jon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 16:45:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 20:45:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think.? However we were able to communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he was down to 300 feet.? That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt water will make that big of a difference. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 16:47:36 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 10:47:36 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to > communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he > was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt > water will make that big of a difference. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 17:47:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 10:47:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round about August 2. You may be able to find it in the archives. Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something we thrashed out a month ago! Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; however I could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to me that is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than the OTS if they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from it. Alan >> All, >> >> Ocean Reef UW communication might be a alternative for those who want a cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep and a Kilometer away on open sea! >> >> The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub. http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/ >> The M100 is a more compact unit http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/ >> >> I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs members. Contact at www.nordicsub.com >> For USA: Operator at oceanreefgroup.com >> >> Best Regards, Emile van Essen >> The Netherlands >> >> >> > On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Jon > > >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt water will make that big of a difference. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 18:19:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 22:19:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. ?My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. ?When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. ?Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. ?The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. ?Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. ?Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 19:18:05 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:18:05 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power. They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths & they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power. Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it. Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried a comparison between the two. It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplified enough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get them to amplify the sound a bit more. I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at a higher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there is a healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting question to ask OTS. Alan > On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 19:49:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:49:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1160053271.314300.1539647346443@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, my coms are not diver coms, they are custom, and I had them totally rebuilt when I got the sub. ?Interesting point about the transducer. ?The transducer on the sub is an oil filled rubber bodied thing. ?The rubber body is slightly collapsed on the top. ?I should also mention the coms work perfect when the two transducers are on top of each other.Hank On Monday, October 15, 2018, 5:18:34 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power.They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths &they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power.Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it.Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried acomparison between the two.?It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplifiedenough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get themto amplify the sound a bit more.?I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at ahigher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there isa healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting questionto ask OTS.Alan On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. ?My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. ?When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. ?Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. ?The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. ?Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. ?Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 20:03:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 20:03:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. Best, Alec On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power. > They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths & > they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more > power. > Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on > it. > Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried a > comparison between the two. > It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being > amplified > enough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get > them > to amplify the sound a bit more. > I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at a > higher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there > is > a healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting > question > to ask OTS. > Alan > > > > > On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, > but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. My radio in the sub > sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 > feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. When the surface > radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. > Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to > power it. The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma > feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. Does the radio take more power to > transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. Maybe winter > will wait for me to test this theory. > Hank > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 20:14:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:14:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <173154768.282580.1539648879988@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alec, you could be onto something there! ?I fill it with oil upside down but the oil is like tar, so an air bubble could form.Hank On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:04:13 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. Best,Alec On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power.They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths &they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power.Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it.Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried acomparison between the two.?It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplifiedenough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get themto amplify the sound a bit more.?I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at ahigher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there isa healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting questionto ask OTS.Alan On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles.? My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water.? When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint.? Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it.? The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank.? Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem.? Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 20:20:23 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:20:23 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2EA76D6A-21C9-464C-8A8A-22867D358737@yahoo.com> Alec, Hank, if there were an air bubble there it would compress majorly at 300ft & be less of an issue than it was at the surface. > On 16/10/2018, at 1:03 PM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Hank, > > I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. > > Best, > Alec > >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power. >> They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths & >> they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power. >> Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it. >> Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried a >> comparison between the two. >> It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplified >> enough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get them >> to amplify the sound a bit more. >> I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at a >> higher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there is >> a healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting question >> to ask OTS. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 20:24:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:24:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: <173154768.282580.1539648879988@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> <173154768.282580.1539648879988@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, was that an oil specified for that unit. If it was to viscous it would probably absorb the sound waves. Alan > On 16/10/2018, at 1:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi Alec, you could be onto something there! I fill it with oil upside down but the oil is like tar, so an air bubble could form. > Hank > > On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:04:13 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Hank, > > I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. > > Best, > Alec > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power. > They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths & > they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power. > Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it. > Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried a > comparison between the two. > It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplified > enough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get them > to amplify the sound a bit more. > I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at a > higher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there is > a healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting question > to ask OTS. > Alan > > > > >> On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 20:48:16 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> <173154768.282580.1539648879988@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <344418639.326698.1539650896881@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,?The oil came with the sub and is the correct oil. ?I think it is transformer oil. Hank On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:24:25 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,?was that an oil specified for that unit. If it was to viscous it would probablyabsorb the sound waves.Alan On 16/10/2018, at 1:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Alec, you could be onto something there! ?I fill it with oil upside down but the oil is like tar, so an air bubble could form.Hank On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:04:13 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. Best,Alec On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power.They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths &they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power.Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it.Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried acomparison between the two.?It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplifiedenough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get themto amplify the sound a bit more.?I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at ahigher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there isa healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting questionto ask OTS.Alan On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles.? My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water.? When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint.? Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it.? The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank.? Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem.? Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 21:10:59 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:10:59 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] electronic question, In-Reply-To: <344418639.326698.1539650896881@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1896872118.229549.1539641970134.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1896872118.229549.1539641970134@mail.yahoo.com> <173154768.282580.1539648879988@mail.yahoo.com> <344418639.326698.1539650896881@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D28DD91-1036-4899-B173-88FE790914C1@yahoo.com> Hank, ok, running out of ideas but I still think that if the sound was clear but not loud enough it would be a simple job for some electronics person to increase the volume from it. It may be as simple as adding an amplifyer like this to it but making sure the speaker can handle the volume. http://www.mindkits.co.nz/store/p/8825-TDA7297-Audio-Amplifier-Module.aspx Alan > On 16/10/2018, at 1:48 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > The oil came with the sub and is the correct oil. I think it is transformer oil. > > > Hank > > On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:24:25 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > was that an oil specified for that unit. If it was to viscous it would probably > absorb the sound waves. > Alan > >> On 16/10/2018, at 1:14 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hi Alec, you could be onto something there! I fill it with oil upside down but the oil is like tar, so an air bubble could form. >> Hank >> >> On Monday, October 15, 2018, 6:04:13 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hi Hank, >> >> I noticed you had a rubber cup over the transducer, secured as I recall with a hose clamp. Could you have an air bubble under that? If so that might very well attenuate the signal massively. >> >> Best, >> Alec >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 7:19 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> I think those units are around 5Watts, so not a lot of power. >> They probably limit the power because they are designed for diver depths & >> they would have to have bigger batteries etc & a bulkier unit for more power. >> Maybe the transducer doesn't receive well when it has a lot of pressure on it. >> Is the sound coming through headphones or a speaker. Have you tried a >> comparison between the two. >> It could be an electronics problem if the signal is clear but not being amplified >> enough. If all else fails you could take it to an electronics person & get them >> to amplify the sound a bit more. >> I had been wondering whether those units could be modified to transmit at a >> higher power. Maybe the transmitter might not take it, but generally there is >> a healthy safety margin with electronics. That would be an interesting question >> to ask OTS. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 16/10/2018, at 11:19 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> I am planning to buy one OTS unit for Gamma so I can talk to another sub, but I intend to sort out my existing radio troubles. My radio in the sub sent a signal to my surface radio and they could hear me perfectly at 225 feet with super bad turbidity and debris in the water. When the surface radio sent a message to the sub, the sub radio was clear but very faint. Is it possible that the surface radio did not have sufficient current to power it. The surface radio uses a 12 to 24 v power converter and Gamma feeds its radio off a huge 24v bank. Does the radio take more power to transmit than to receive, if so that might be my problem. Maybe winter will wait for me to test this theory. >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 22:02:08 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:02:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <479978755.11118954.1539655328030@mail.yahoo.com> Lol Alan...I have to admit, I was part of that discussion and had forgotten all about it.? But to be fair, it was more like two months ago.? :) From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS Rick,we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round aboutAugust 2. You may be able to find it in the archives.Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something wethrashed out a month ago!Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; howeverI could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to methat is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than the OTSif they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from it.Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 15 23:14:34 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 17:14:34 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan I?ll start browsing the archives. I was on my sailboat June threw the end of August where we rarely had cell reception or wi-fi so I didn?t keep up with the outside world. I bought my OTS stuff about 5 years ago ( wishful thinking that I would have the sub done by now ) but I sure would like to get at least a thousand feet out of it or so. Rick On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:48 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, > we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round about > August 2. You may be able to find it in the archives. > Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something we > thrashed out a month ago! > Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; however > I could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to me > that is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than > the OTS > if they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from > it. > Alan > > All, > > > > Ocean Reef UW communication might be a alternative for those who want a > cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and > happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but > the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep > and a Kilometer away on open sea! > > > > The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub. > http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/ > > The M100 is a more compact unit > http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/ > > > > I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs > members. Contact at www.nordicsub.com > > For USA: Operator at oceanreefgroup.com > > > > Best Regards, Emile van Essen > > The Netherlands > > > > > > > > > > On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Jon > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to >> communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he >> was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt >> water will make that big of a difference. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 16 02:11:51 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:11:51 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C13D9A6-F390-4C11-A790-0925AEDD1916@yahoo.com> Rick, Glad you are not suffering from the early onset of dementia! I still have most of the emails if you can't find them in the archives. Some times the emails don't show in the archives for a while. If Emile was getting reception 3000ft away you may get even more with the OTS, but in the specs I've seen they always say that there is a broad range variation depending on wave & water conditions. DNV-GL require a range of twice your dive depth, but how that is quantified given the variations due to conditions, I don't know. Alan > On 16/10/2018, at 4:14 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Alan > I?ll start browsing the archives. I was on my sailboat June threw the end of August where we rarely had cell reception or wi-fi so I didn?t keep up with the outside world. > I bought my OTS stuff about 5 years ago ( wishful thinking that I would have the sub done by now ) but I sure would like to get at least a thousand feet out of it or so. > Rick > >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:48 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round about >> August 2. You may be able to find it in the archives. >> Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something we >> thrashed out a month ago! >> Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; however >> I could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to me >> that is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than the OTS >> if they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from it. >> Alan >>>> All, >>>> >>>> Ocean Reef UW communication might be a alternative for those who want a cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep and a Kilometer away on open sea! >>>> >>>> The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub. http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/ >>>> The M100 is a more compact unit http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/ >>>> >>>> I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs members. Contact at www.nordicsub.com >>>> For USA: Operator at oceanreefgroup.com >>>> >>>> Best Regards, Emile van Essen >>>> The Netherlands >> >> >> >>> On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Jon >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt water will make that big of a difference. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 16 08:05:20 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:05:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <5C13D9A6-F390-4C11-A790-0925AEDD1916@yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> <5C13D9A6-F390-4C11-A790-0925AEDD1916@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1001772848.11297940.1539691520215@mail.yahoo.com> At Lake Tahoe we had consistent good communication with R300 with one exception, shallow water (50-70 feet) and a large horizontal distance (500 feet?) between us caused by strong winds pushing the topside boat away from the dive site.? On previous days we had the same horizontal distance or more, but R300 was in deeper water so communication was still good.? So the combination of depth and angle between units matters, but I will say that I was very impressed with the OTS equipment.? It just works. Jon From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:14 AM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS Rick,Glad you are not suffering from the early onset of dementia!I still have most of the emails if you can't find them in the archives.Some times the emails don't show in the archives for a while.If Emile was getting reception 3000ft away you may get even morewith the OTS, but in the specs I've seen they always say that there is a?broad range variation depending on wave & water conditions.DNV-GL require a range of twice your dive depth, but how that is?quantified given the variations due to conditions, I don't know.Alan On 16/10/2018, at 4:14 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Alan?I?ll start browsing the archives. I was on my sailboat June threw the end of August where we rarely had cell reception or wi-fi so I didn?t keep up with the outside world.?I bought my OTS stuff about 5 years ago ( wishful thinking that I would have the sub done by now ) but I sure would like to get at least a thousand feet out of it or so.?Rick? On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:48 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick,we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round aboutAugust 2. You may be able to find it in the archives.Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something wethrashed out a month ago!Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; howeverI could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to methat is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than the OTSif they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from it.Alan All,?Ocean Reef UW communication? might be? a alternative for those who want a cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but ?the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep and a Kilometer away on open sea!?The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub.?http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/The M100? is a more compact unit??http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/?I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs members.? Contact at?www.nordicsub.comFor USA:??Operator at oceanreefgroup.com?Best Regards, Emile van Essen?The Netherlands??? On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think.? However we were able to communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he was down to 300 feet.? That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt water will make that big of a difference. _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 16 15:43:07 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:43:07 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <1001772848.11297940.1539691520215@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> <5C13D9A6-F390-4C11-A790-0925AEDD1916@yahoo.com> <1001772848.11297940.1539691520215@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks again guys Rick On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 2:06 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > At Lake Tahoe we had consistent good communication with R300 with one > exception, shallow water (50-70 feet) and a large horizontal distance (500 > feet?) between us caused by strong winds pushing the topside boat away from > the dive site. On previous days we had the same horizontal distance or > more, but R300 was in deeper water so communication was still good. So the > combination of depth and angle between units matters, but I will say that I > was very impressed with the OTS equipment. It just works. > > Jon > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Alan via Personal_Submersibles > *To:* Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:14 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS > > Rick, > Glad you are not suffering from the early onset of dementia! > I still have most of the emails if you can't find them in the archives. > Some times the emails don't show in the archives for a while. > If Emile was getting reception 3000ft away you may get even more > with the OTS, but in the specs I've seen they always say that there is a > broad range variation depending on wave & water conditions. > DNV-GL require a range of twice your dive depth, but how that is > quantified given the variations due to conditions, I don't know. > Alan > > > On 16/10/2018, at 4:14 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Alan > I?ll start browsing the archives. I was on my sailboat June threw the end > of August where we rarely had cell reception or wi-fi so I didn?t keep up > with the outside world. > I bought my OTS stuff about 5 years ago ( wishful thinking that I would > have the sub done by now ) but I sure would like to get at least a thousand > feet out of it or so. > Rick > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:48 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, > we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round about > August 2. You may be able to find it in the archives. > Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something we > thrashed out a month ago! > Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; however > I could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to me > that is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than > the OTS > if they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from > it. > Alan > > All, > > Ocean Reef UW communication might be a alternative for those who want a > cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and > happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but > the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep > and a Kilometer away on open sea! > > The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub. > http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/ > The M100 is a more compact unit > http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/ > > I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs > members. Contact at www.nordicsub.com > For USA: Operator at oceanreefgroup.com > > Best Regards, Emile van Essen > The Netherlands > > > > > > > On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Thanks Jon > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to > communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he > was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt > water will make that big of a difference. > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 16 16:00:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:00:39 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS In-Reply-To: <1001772848.11297940.1539691520215@mail.yahoo.com> References: <814895587.956269.1539547428753.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <814895587.956269.1539547428753@mail.yahoo.com> <348154407.1010408.1539559398437@mail.yahoo.com> <1374969643.10654208.1539612739868@mail.yahoo.com> <654237391.10936259.1539636305995@mail.yahoo.com> <5C13D9A6-F390-4C11-A790-0925AEDD1916@yahoo.com> <1001772848.11297940.1539691520215@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, that's good information. It could be that the signal is bouncing off the bottom & the surface & distorting in shallow depths with a large distance. As these units are marketed at scuba divers the distance rating is probably based on these shallow depth conditions, whereas with our deeper diving subs it is looking like our range is a lot more. Alan > On 17/10/2018, at 1:05 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > At Lake Tahoe we had consistent good communication with R300 with one exception, shallow water (50-70 feet) and a large horizontal distance (500 feet?) between us caused by strong winds pushing the topside boat away from the dive site. On previous days we had the same horizontal distance or more, but R300 was in deeper water so communication was still good. So the combination of depth and angle between units matters, but I will say that I was very impressed with the OTS equipment. It just works. > > Jon > > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:14 AM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS > > Rick, > Glad you are not suffering from the early onset of dementia! > I still have most of the emails if you can't find them in the archives. > Some times the emails don't show in the archives for a while. > If Emile was getting reception 3000ft away you may get even more > with the OTS, but in the specs I've seen they always say that there is a > broad range variation depending on wave & water conditions. > DNV-GL require a range of twice your dive depth, but how that is > quantified given the variations due to conditions, I don't know. > Alan > > >> On 16/10/2018, at 4:14 PM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Thanks Alan >> I?ll start browsing the archives. I was on my sailboat June threw the end of August where we rarely had cell reception or wi-fi so I didn?t keep up with the outside world. >> I bought my OTS stuff about 5 years ago ( wishful thinking that I would have the sub done by now ) but I sure would like to get at least a thousand feet out of it or so. >> Rick >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 11:48 AM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Rick, >> we had a good discussion on this subject back in mid July till round about >> August 2. You may be able to find it in the archives. >> Great getting older, we can all have a new discussion about something we >> thrashed out a month ago! >> Below is an email from Emile about a cheaper unit he recommends; however >> I could not find any information about how many Watts the unit was & to me >> that is a big factor affecting the range. I am guessing it is less than the OTS >> if they are not showing this important stat. Emile has had good range from it. >> Alan >>>> All, >>>> >>>> Ocean Reef UW communication might be a alternative for those who want a cheaper alternative for OTS. I am using 2 M105 DC units for 5 years now and happy with it. They are more intended for recreational use that OTS but the units give good quality sound even with the sub at 200 M (600 ft) deep and a Kilometer away on open sea! >>>> >>>> The M105 is meant as a surface unit but can be used inside a sub. http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m105-digital-dc/ >>>> The M100 is a more compact unit http://diving.oceanreefgroup.com/accessory/m100-g-divers-portable-surface-transceiver/ >>>> >>>> I am a reseller for Europe. Can give at least 10% discount to Psubs members. Contact at www.nordicsub.com >>>> For USA: Operator at oceanreefgroup.com >>>> >>>> Best Regards, Emile van Essen >>>> The Netherlands >> >> >> >>> On 16/10/2018, at 9:47 AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Jon >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> It was shallow Rick, about 40 feet max I think. However we were able to communicate with Cliff no problem in Lake Tahoe and I think at one point he was down to 300 feet. That was cold fresh water, not sure if warm salt water will make that big of a difference. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 24 20:45:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 00:45:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nekton Alpha References: <1244270715.505398.1540428309147.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1244270715.505398.1540428309147@mail.yahoo.com> HI All,If anyone is interested in buying Nekton Alpha, it is for sale. ?The seller is asking 80K witch seems good for a 1,000 foot sub in beautiful condition. ?Contact me for the sellers info.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 27 20:19:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. ?Have you tested them?Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 27 20:20:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:20:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. ?Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 27 20:43:43 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2018 20:43:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Hank, They are ready to go, all plumbed in and working well in garage dives. All I am missing now is a little work on the trailer to get the sub safely to a test site. My plans are constantly being disrupted by the last job of my house renovation. At present, the whole garage is full of shutters that I'm painting, and then I have to make the hinges to hang them. Then hang them on the house... and only THEN will I get a chance to finish the trailer! If it weren't for those darned shutters, I'd be just days from testing. Thanks, Alec On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 8:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they > perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 27 21:54:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <504692216.17577057.1540691658559@mail.yahoo.com> Alec,I feel your pain. ?I too, missed the fall season of diving to finish my year long reno. ?I am now finished and moved in, but back to work. ?No sub dives until spring, but no distractions next year. ?So bring on the projects!Hank On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:44:13 PM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank, They are ready to go, all plumbed in and working well in garage dives. All I am missing now is a little work on the trailer to get the sub safely to a test site. My plans are constantly being disrupted by the last job of my house renovation. At present, the whole garage is full of shutters that I'm painting, and then I have to make the hinges to hang them. Then hang them on the house... and only THEN will I get a chance to finish the trailer! If it weren't for those darned shutters, I'd be just days from testing. Thanks,Alec On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 8:20 PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.? Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Oct 27 22:28:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 15:28:15 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & were wondering if I had missed some. Alan > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 10:32:30 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:32:30 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they > perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 13:49:03 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 17:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" ?or are you just making fun of me?Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky.What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately &were wondering if I had missed some.Alan?? On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.? Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 14:46:04 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 07:46:04 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> Hank, yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube receptacle with resin. The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should need to close it yet. Alan > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > >> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Pins >> >> >> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Alec, >> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 15:28:42 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 12:28:42 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves Message-ID: <20181028122842.AD0E47E5@m0117568.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 15:29:15 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 19:29:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. ?That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub.Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying!?Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work.You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance'smushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids,which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tubereceptacle with resin.The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one Iordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in forceafter coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should?need to close it yet.Alan ? On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" ?or are you just making fun of me?Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky.What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately &were wondering if I had missed some.Alan?? On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.? Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 15:56:46 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:56:46 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> Hank, I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about 2 weeks to get here. Alan > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > >> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >> >> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >> were wondering if I had missed some. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Pins >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Alec, >>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>> Hank >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 16:45:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 16:45:02 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <20181028122842.AD0E47E5@m0117568.ppops.net> References: <20181028122842.AD0E47E5@m0117568.ppops.net> Message-ID: Hi Brian, Yes, made from scratch - just solid bar stock. Best, Alec On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 3:29 PM Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Alec, Did you fabricate these from scratch ? or adapt existing > valves, sorry , I've come in late on this. > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves > Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 10:32:30 -0400 > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and > needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page > and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they > perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 17:14:29 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:14:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. ?I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. ?I need two on Gamma and two on E3000Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goesin & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as withlinear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can bemagnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it inresin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe& taking off enough metal to make room for the resin.?I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast.I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot theyget, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how manyturns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one.I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought.What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keepyou up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about2 weeks to get here.Alan On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. ?That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub.Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying!?Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work.You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance'smushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids,which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tubereceptacle with resin.The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one Iordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in forceafter coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should?need to close it yet.Alan ? On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" ?or are you just making fun of me?Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky.What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately &were wondering if I had missed some.Alan?? On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.? Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Oct 28 17:42:32 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:42:32 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till the ballast tanks are flooded. Alan > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > >> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >> receptacle with resin. >> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >> need to close it yet. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>> >>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Hank, >>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Pins >>>> >>>> >>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Alec, >>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>> Hank >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518611 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 00:14:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:14:02 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent becomes level. Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. That is basically it, apart from the wiring. Cheers Alan > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > >> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >> 2 weeks to get here. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >>> receptacle with resin. >>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >>> need to close it yet. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>>> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hank, >>>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pins >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alec, >>>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 07:21:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 11:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> Alan,I have to admit, that is pretty tempting. ?I am torn between having a nice feature and my HATRED for electronics in a sub. ?At Lake Tahoe, the only issues with Gamma ?were ELECTRONIC, yes even Gamma with minimal electronics ?had a failed potentiometer on the speed control. ?Luckily, because I HATE and distrust all things electronic I carry a spare everything. ?Are you not afraid if you make the sub so easy to operate that you take the joy out of diving it.?Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 10:38:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduinocompatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids.The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connectsto the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves.If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the?tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descentbecomes level.?Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required.In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will?need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements.That is basically it, apart from the wiring.Cheers Alan On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished.Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probablymake the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as?a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till?the ballast tanks are flooded.Alan? On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. ?I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. ?I need two on Gamma and two on E3000Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goesin & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as withlinear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can bemagnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it inresin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe& taking off enough metal to make room for the resin.?I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast.I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot theyget, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how manyturns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one.I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought.What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keepyou up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about2 weeks to get here.Alan On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan,Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. ?That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub.Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying!?Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work.You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance'smushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids,which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tubereceptacle with resin.The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one Iordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in forceafter coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should?need to close it yet.Alan ? On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" ?or are you just making fun of me?Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank,glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky.What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately &were wondering if I had missed some.Alan?? On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec,I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform.? Have you tested them?Hank_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 08:49:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 01:49:26 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hank, part of the idea behind this is that being a 1 person sub I want to make it super simple for anybody else to dive. I will make the ballast switch a momentary switch so pilots can't leave it on by mistake & burn out my solenoid valves. As for the reliability of the electronics; I was thinking of using 3 tilt switches & having the program only take note of the 2 switches with the closest values to each other, & also alerting the user if the third unit is out of a certain range compared to the other 2. I will do similar with the O2 & CO2 systems. I could additionally have switches wired direct to the solenoid valves over-riding the arduino unit. As per GL philosophy, no single component failure should be able to result in a life threatening event. Alan > On 30/10/2018, at 12:21 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I have to admit, that is pretty tempting. I am torn between having a nice feature and my HATRED for electronics in a sub. At Lake Tahoe, the only issues with Gamma were ELECTRONIC, yes even Gamma with minimal electronics had a failed potentiometer on the speed control. Luckily, because I HATE and distrust all things electronic I carry a spare everything. Are you not afraid if you make the sub so easy to operate that you take the joy out of diving it. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 10:38:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > > >> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > >> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >> 2 weeks to get here. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >>> receptacle with resin. >>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >>> need to close it yet. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>>> >>>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> Hank, >>>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pins >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Alec, >>>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>>> Hank >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 11:03:28 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 11:03:28 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm with you Hank! The other thing is that with four valves this big, the sub shouldn't even have time to get out of trim when submerging. Alec On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 7:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alan, > I have to admit, that is pretty tempting. I am torn between having a nice > feature and my HATRED for electronics in a sub. At Lake Tahoe, the only > issues with Gamma were ELECTRONIC, yes even Gamma with minimal electronics > had a failed potentiometer on the speed control. Luckily, because I HATE > and distrust all things electronic I carry a spare everything. Are you not > afraid if you make the sub so easy to operate that you take the joy out of > diving it. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 10:38:27 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs > descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil > with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did > thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and > two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building > one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is > one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify > Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the > solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in > force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I > should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you > just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and > needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page > and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they > perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 12:06:31 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 10:06:31 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alec. I am looking forward to seeing video of you sinking, blink , gone. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 29, 2018, at 9:03 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I'm with you Hank! The other thing is that with four valves this big, the sub shouldn't even have time to get out of trim when submerging. > > Alec > >> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 7:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Alan, >> I have to admit, that is pretty tempting. I am torn between having a nice feature and my HATRED for electronics in a sub. At Lake Tahoe, the only issues with Gamma were ELECTRONIC, yes even Gamma with minimal electronics had a failed potentiometer on the speed control. Luckily, because I HATE and distrust all things electronic I carry a spare everything. Are you not afraid if you make the sub so easy to operate that you take the joy out of diving it. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 10:38:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino >> compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. >> The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects >> to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. >> If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the >> tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent >> becomes level. >> Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. >> In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will >> need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. >> That is basically it, apart from the wiring. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >> >> Hank, >> I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. >> Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably >> make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as >> a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till >> the ballast tanks are flooded. >> Alan >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Alan, >>> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >>> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >>> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >>> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >>> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >>> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >>> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >>> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >>> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >>> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >>> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >>> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >>> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >>> 2 weeks to get here. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >>>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >>>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >>>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >>>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >>>> receptacle with resin. >>>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >>>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >>>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >>>> need to close it yet. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>>>> >>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> Hank, >>>>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>>>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>>>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Pins >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alec, >>>>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 12:31:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:31:22 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <1526320239.18141790.1540812063420@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don?t sink my subs, I dive them! :) Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 29, 2018, at 12:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alec. I am looking forward to seeing video of you sinking, blink , gone. > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 29, 2018, at 9:03 AM, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> I'm with you Hank! The other thing is that with four valves this big, the sub shouldn't even have time to get out of trim when submerging. >> >> Alec >> >>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 7:22 AM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> Alan, >>> I have to admit, that is pretty tempting. I am torn between having a nice feature and my HATRED for electronics in a sub. At Lake Tahoe, the only issues with Gamma were ELECTRONIC, yes even Gamma with minimal electronics had a failed potentiometer on the speed control. Luckily, because I HATE and distrust all things electronic I carry a spare everything. Are you not afraid if you make the sub so easy to operate that you take the joy out of diving it. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 10:38:27 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino >>> compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. >>> The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects >>> to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. >>> If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the >>> tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent >>> becomes level. >>> Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. >>> In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will >>> need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. >>> That is basically it, apart from the wiring. >>> Cheers Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Hank, >>> I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. >>> Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably >>> make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as >>> a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till >>> the ballast tanks are flooded. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >>>> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >>>> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >>>> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >>>> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >>>> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >>>> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >>>> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >>>> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >>>> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >>>> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >>>> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >>>> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >>>> 2 weeks to get here. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >>>>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >>>>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >>>>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >>>>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >>>>> receptacle with resin. >>>>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >>>>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >>>>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >>>>> need to close it yet. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hank, >>>>>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>>>>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>>>>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alec, >>>>>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 13:28:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:28:02 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. Cliff On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs > descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > [image: image1.JPG] > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil > with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did > thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and > two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building > one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is > one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify > Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the > solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in > force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I > should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you > just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and > needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page > and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they > perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 518458 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 14:01:24 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 07:01:24 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks guys, I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't work that well. It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. Alan > On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. > > Cliff > >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino >> compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. >> The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects >> to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. >> If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the >> tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent >> becomes level. >> Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. >> In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will >> need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. >> That is basically it, apart from the wiring. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hank, >>> I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. >>> Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably >>> make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as >>> a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till >>> the ballast tanks are flooded. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> Alan, >>>> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hank, >>>> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >>>> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >>>> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >>>> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >>>> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >>>> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >>>> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >>>> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >>>> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >>>> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >>>> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >>>> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >>>> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >>>> 2 weeks to get here. >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Alan, >>>>> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hank, >>>>> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >>>>> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >>>>> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >>>>> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >>>>> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >>>>> receptacle with resin. >>>>> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >>>>> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >>>>> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >>>>> need to close it yet. >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >>>>>> Hank >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> Hank, >>>>>> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >>>>>> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >>>>>> were wondering if I had missed some. >>>>>> Alan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pins >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alec, >>>>>>> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >>>>>>> Hank >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 15:39:47 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 08:39:47 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> Alan, I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. Just my 2 cents. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves Thanks guys, I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't work that well. It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. Alan On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. Cliff On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent becomes level. Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. That is basically it, apart from the wiring. Cheers Alan image1.JPG On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till the ballast tanks are flooded. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about 2 weeks to get here. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube receptacle with resin. The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should need to close it yet. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & were wondering if I had missed some. Alan On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 17:12:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 10:12:21 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <539F6A55-6791-430F-800A-F571C8B1D8F8@yahoo.com> Hi Hugh, yes will use fuzzy logic! ( PID control) & conformal coating on any electronics, which are all going in a sealed off compartment. If I go with a pneumatically operated system I will want to operate it with solenoid valves anyway as there won't be a lot of room for valves. With regard to the sticky solenoid; that is a possibility, especially as I intend to have the plunger & it's cylinder exposed to sea water. I will need to coat both the inside of the cylinder & the plunger with resin & have enough play so that they don't jam. The more play the less power the solenoid has though. These solenoids are in the post so I will play around with them & see what I think. Cheers Alan > On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. > Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. > There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. > Just my 2 cents. Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves > > Thanks guys, > I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the > tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't > work that well. > It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids > to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. > Alan > > > > On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. > > Cliff > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 20:23:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 00:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass References: <1864664684.18705396.1540858981037.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1864664684.18705396.1540858981037@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All,It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. ?I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. ?Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? ?Any ideas are welcome.Hank -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 20:41:10 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:41:10 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing Message-ID: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 20:42:56 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (irox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:42:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Message-ID: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 21:10:14 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 01:10:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> Ian,?Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. ?I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CTHank On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank! you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display):https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like:https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. Cheers!? Ian.P.S.:? Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Hi All,It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. ?I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. ?Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? ?Any ideas are welcome.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 21:12:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 01:12:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <28506097.4392588.1540861946092@mail.yahoo.com> Brian, Nice, now lets see it.Hank On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:41:27 PM MDT, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi All,? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I successfully made my mold?for my shell /cover for my sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when separating?the parts?.? ?I've been inquiring?into a truck strong enough to haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in Kalifornia,? there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the road, really sucks.? So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring somebody to haul it .? ?This state is so messed up.? ?Also I'm doing an extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my house now to work from.? I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our property.? I'm kind of re leaved?to get out of that shop simple?because I've accumulated so much crap !? ?Better to simplify things.?? Brian _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Oct 29 21:14:00 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 14:14:00 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Shell, downsizing In-Reply-To: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> References: <20181029174110.AD0E89CE@m0117567.ppops.net> Message-ID: <39B2050B-6B49-470D-B9C7-9A1D754A81BE@yahoo.com> Brian, congratulations on getting that mold done, glad it came out ok. Know what you mean about accumulating stuff; I have spent the last few days buying racking & clear plastic containers & organising my sub stuff. I have been buying electronics that I already had. Great putting stuff in clear plastic bins so I know what I've got! Alan > On 30/10/2018, at 1:41 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hi All, > I successfully made my mold for my shell /cover for my sub , now I'm just fixing some imperfections that occurred when separating the parts . I've been inquiring into a truck strong enough to haul my sub but it turns out all the older trucks are now banned in Kalifornia, there are trucks around but they are illegal to have on the road, really sucks. So I guess in the long run I'm better off just hiring somebody to haul it . This state is so messed up. Also I'm doing an extreme downsizing , I'm moving out of my rented shop and just going to my house now to work from. I'll be keeping the sub on the side part of our property. I'm kind of re leaved to get out of that shop simple because I've accumulated so much crap ! Better to simplify things. > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 04:00:58 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 21:00:58 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CBC3E77-BB83-48E9-968F-FF1669B5C30E@yahoo.com> Hugh, what would be the minimum spring closing pressure you would recommend for a ballast valve thanks. Alan > On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. > Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. > There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. > Just my 2 cents. Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves > > Thanks guys, > I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the > tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't > work that well. > It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids > to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. > Alan > > > > On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. > > Cliff > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 15:28:22 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 08:28:22 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <2CBC3E77-BB83-48E9-968F-FF1669B5C30E@yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> <2CBC3E77-BB83-48E9-968F-FF1669B5C30E@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0c7901d47086$bb2af430$3180dc90$@gmail.com> Tough one Alan. I have mine set to just over 1 psi approx. ( 8 lbs force. 3? sealing diameter ) for use as a relief valve due to the fact that I have a limited water exhaust and over pressure from over exuberant blowing could over stress the bolted on ?ballast tanks?. I cannot have more than 2 psi. If the ballast tanks have large openings like the Kittredge designs 5 psi is plenty but if you have enclosed main ballast then you may wish to push the water out more quickly with up to 15 psi. Every foot of height of the ballast tank you need minimum ? psi to keep the air in. If the valve design is prone to growth on the stem and resistance then that should be allowed for. Mine are oil compensated. Less pressure = less air use for opening if riding the bubble. But system air pressure might be designed for many functions. See what Cliff & Alex put in for their springs. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:01 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves Hugh, what would be the minimum spring closing pressure you would recommend for a ballast valve thanks. Alan On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. Just my 2 cents. Hugh From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves Thanks guys, I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't work that well. It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. Alan On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. Cliff On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent becomes level. Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. That is basically it, apart from the wiring. Cheers Alan image1.JPG On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till the ballast tanks are flooded. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about 2 weeks to get here. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alan, Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube receptacle with resin. The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should need to close it yet. Alan On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me Hank On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & were wondering if I had missed some. Alan On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Pins On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 18:52:06 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 11:52:06 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <0c7901d47086$bb2af430$3180dc90$@gmail.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> <2CBC3E77-BB83-48E9-968F-FF1669B5C30E@yahoo.com> <0c7901d47086$bb2af430$3180dc90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52F3AB63-AB98-49D1-9B82-B76AD34DA7E5@yahoo.com> Thanks Hugh, I hadn't thought about the air pressure from within the ballast tank ( 1/2 psi per ft. ). I think I'll aim for a 1psi spring closing pressure & make sure the solenoid can apply at least 5 pounds of pressure to open the valve. Trouble is the solenoids weaken as they extend so if I am using it to pull open the valve the solenoid will be at it's weakest at the point where it initially opens. I cracked 2 of my ambient subs fibreglass ballast tanks by not having large enough bottom vent holes, so have learnt the hard way on that. Cheers Alan > On 31/10/2018, at 8:28 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Tough one Alan. > I have mine set to just over 1 psi approx. ( 8 lbs force. 3? sealing diameter ) for use as a relief valve due to the fact that I have a limited water exhaust and over pressure from over exuberant blowing could over stress the bolted on ?ballast tanks?. I cannot have more than 2 psi. > If the ballast tanks have large openings like the Kittredge designs 5 psi is plenty but if you have enclosed main ballast then you may wish to push the water out more quickly with up to 15 psi. > Every foot of height of the ballast tank you need minimum ? psi to keep the air in. If the valve design is prone to growth on the stem and resistance then that should be allowed for. Mine are oil compensated. > Less pressure = less air use for opening if riding the bubble. But system air pressure might be designed for many functions. > See what Cliff & Alex put in for their springs. Hugh > > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:01 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves > > Hugh, > what would be the minimum spring closing pressure you would > recommend for a ballast valve thanks. > Alan > > > On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. > Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. > There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. > Just my 2 cents. Hugh > > From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves > > Thanks guys, > I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the > tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't > work that well. > It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids > to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. > Alan > > > > On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. > > Cliff > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino > compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. > The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects > to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. > If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the > tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent > becomes level. > Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. > In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will > need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. > That is basically it, apart from the wiring. > Cheers Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. > Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably > make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as > a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till > the ballast tanks are flooded. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes > in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with > linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be > magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in > resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe > & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. > I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. > I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they > get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many > turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. > I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. > What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep > you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about > 2 weeks to get here. > Alan > > > On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hank, > yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! > Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. > You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's > mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, > which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube > receptacle with resin. > The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I > ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force > after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should > need to close it yet. > Alan > > > > > > On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me > Hank > > On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... > > https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ > > > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hank, > glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. > What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & > were wondering if I had missed some. > Alan > > > On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Pins > > > On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Alec, > I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 19:42:18 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:42:18 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves In-Reply-To: <52F3AB63-AB98-49D1-9B82-B76AD34DA7E5@yahoo.com> References: <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1499932257.3209378.1540685950422@mail.yahoo.com> <739097225.17562758.1540686043656@mail.yahoo.com> <694712016.2519021.1540748943616@mail.yahoo.com> <86D09ABC-164C-4B1F-95EA-B1A828980792@yahoo.com> <266016878.3462931.1540754955939@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5BF6A1-87A0-4AFD-9368-973B40D8B268@yahoo.com> <544809513.17855088.1540761269957@mail.yahoo.com> <0b6501d46fbf$2970ec10$7c52c430$@gmail.com> <2CBC3E77-BB83-48E9-968F-FF1669B5C30E@yahoo.com> <0c7901d47086$bb2af430$3180dc90$@gmail.com> <52F3AB63-AB98-49D1-9B82-B76AD34DA7E5@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1056FCB6-022F-42AD-8BFD-DE31B174EEDF@yahoo.com> Correction, I can use the solenoid to pull open at it's strongest part of the stroke. One of the solenoids I have ordered is between 1 & 10kg force depending on the position of the stroke. So should be great with 10kg initial opening force. Alan > On 31/10/2018, at 11:52 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Thanks Hugh, > I hadn't thought about the air pressure from within the ballast tank > ( 1/2 psi per ft. ). > I think I'll aim for a 1psi spring closing pressure & make sure the solenoid > can apply at least 5 pounds of pressure to open the valve. Trouble is > the solenoids weaken as they extend so if I am using it to pull open the > valve the solenoid will be at it's weakest at the point where it initially opens. > I cracked 2 of my ambient subs fibreglass ballast tanks by not having large > enough bottom vent holes, so have learnt the hard way on that. > Cheers Alan > > >> On 31/10/2018, at 8:28 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Tough one Alan. >> I have mine set to just over 1 psi approx. ( 8 lbs force. 3? sealing diameter ) for use as a relief valve due to the fact that I have a limited water exhaust and over pressure from over exuberant blowing could over stress the bolted on ?ballast tanks?. I cannot have more than 2 psi. >> If the ballast tanks have large openings like the Kittredge designs 5 psi is plenty but if you have enclosed main ballast then you may wish to push the water out more quickly with up to 15 psi. >> Every foot of height of the ballast tank you need minimum ? psi to keep the air in. If the valve design is prone to growth on the stem and resistance then that should be allowed for. Mine are oil compensated. >> Less pressure = less air use for opening if riding the bubble. But system air pressure might be designed for many functions. >> See what Cliff & Alex put in for their springs. Hugh >> >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 9:01 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves >> >> Hugh, >> what would be the minimum spring closing pressure you would >> recommend for a ballast valve thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> On 30/10/2018, at 8:39 AM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I am with the others as I have made the mistake of going too complex and still fighting with battery management systems instead of diving. >> Keep things mechanical and simple if possible. Cheap electronics in a salty environment??? My thoughts when I first saw the post were that this could make the action worse and it was confirmed by Cliff in a later post. >> There is a lag with reaction time of ballast and it would take fuzzy logic to predict it. You need to control everything without power. I have a sticky solenoid valve in the Comsub which was a real pain. >> Just my 2 cents. Hugh >> >> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 7:01 AM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Alec's new valves >> >> Thanks guys, >> I will continue with the solenoid ballast valves & tinker with the >> tilt sensor control, as it is simple & can be abandoned if it doesn't >> work that well. >> It may end up that I feed less voltage to some of the solenoids >> to proportionally open them rather than just open / closed. >> Alan >> >> >> >> On 30/10/2018, at 6:28 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, I tired this approach back in April of this year as I was getting ready for Lake Tahoe Expedition. I added some ladder logic to my PLC that looked at the pitch angle of the boat when the MBT flood bottom was pushed. If the boat began pitching forward, the logic would close the forward MBT vet valve and if the boat were pitching backward, I would close the aft MBT vent valve. It did not work and I ended up deleting the option. What I found was this methodology aggravated the instability during MBT flooding. I think the best approach to have a stable MBT flooding event is what Alec is doing with Hugh Fulton's large port MBT vent valves. Of course it is always nice if the GB-GC split of the boat is large. >> >> Cliff >> >> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> you'll really get excited over this! I have purchased a $10- arduino >> compatible tilt sensor / accelerometer to control my ballast solenoids. >> The idea is that to dive you flick one switch on the consul, this connects >> to the arduino board & via relays opens the ballast solenoid valves. >> If the sub starts to descend unevenly the arduino will read this from the >> tilt sensor & turn off the appropriate ballast valve untill the subs descent >> becomes level. >> Probably a bit of fine tuning in the field required. >> In the photo below I am only showing one relay as an example but will >> need to source relays based on my currently unknown power requirements. >> That is basically it, apart from the wiring. >> Cheers Alan >> >> >> On 29/10/2018, at 10:42 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> I would be interested in seeing them when they are finished. >> Attached is one of my preliminary designs, but will probably >> make the Aluminium housing a tight fit around the wires as >> a heat sink. Being vent valves they won't get water cooled till >> the ballast tanks are flooded. >> Alan >> >> >> On 29/10/2018, at 10:14 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> I am making solenoid vent valves and immersing the entire valve in oil with a compensation bladder. I used them on my salvage ROV that did thousands of cycles without anything done to them. I need two on Gamma and two on E3000 >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 1:57:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> I would need to put a seal on the plunger & as the plunger goes >> in & out it would be displacing oil, so have the same problems as with >> linear actuators. As the plunger has to be a material that can be >> magnetised it is vulnerable to corrosion, so I will have to coat it in >> resin anyway. It is just a matter of putting the plunger on the lathe >> & taking off enough metal to make room for the resin. >> I made a solenoid valve years ago. It was 60W & got hot really fast. >> I have ordered a 48V & 24V solenoid mainly to see how hot they >> get, how strong they are, what gauge wire they are using & how many >> turns. If neither is suitable at least I will get some ideas for building one. >> I have been inspired by those little open waterproofed motors I bought. >> What were you going to use the solenoids for? If you want I will keep >> you up to date with what I am doing, but the solenoids will take about >> 2 weeks to get here. >> Alan >> >> >> On 29/10/2018, at 8:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Alan, >> Why don't you just make a housing for the solenoids and oil fill. That is one of my first projects when I get back to the sub. >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 12:46:29 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Hank, >> yes just making fun of you! It's an old English saying! >> Thanks Alec, I see I have already "liked" them. Nice piece of work. >> You guys got me inspired & I ordered a couple of solenoids to modify Vance's >> mushroom valve design & make it electric. I will have to waterproof the solenoids, >> which will involve machining the plunger so I can coat it & it's iron tube >> receptacle with resin. >> The force varies depending on how far out the plunger is & on one I >> ordered it varied between 1 & 10kg; unfortunately I'll get a reduction in force >> after coating everything with resin. I am not sure how much spring force I should >> need to close it yet. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> >> On 29/10/2018, at 6:49 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Have you guys never heard the saying "on pins and needles" or are you just making fun of me >> Hank >> >> On Sunday, October 28, 2018, 8:33:01 AM MDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Yeah, I'm not sure what Hank was talking about concerning piss and needles, it doesn't sound good at all. But Alan, scroll down on this page and you'll see the valves... >> >> https://www.facebook.com/pg/INNERSPACESCIENCE/posts/ >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:29 PM Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> Hank, >> glad you clarified that, it read like you were an alcoholic & junky. >> What valves were they? I haven't received any posts lately & >> were wondering if I had missed some. >> Alan >> >> >> On 28/10/2018, at 1:20 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Pins >> >> >> On Saturday, October 27, 2018, 6:19:32 PM MDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Alec, >> I am on pis and needles waiting to hear about your new valves and how they perform. Have you tested them? >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 20:36:01 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 00:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> Hank, I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor.? Display can be in many formats.? These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | | | | | | | | Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Ian,?Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. ?I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CTHank On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv3828330485 #yiv3828330485 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv3828330485 Hi Hank! you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display):https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like:https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. Cheers!? Ian.P.S.:? Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Hi All,It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. ?I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. ?Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? ?Any ideas are welcome.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 20:53:35 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 00:53:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <477330983.497267.1540947215065@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jon,Thanks for the info, but way over my head. lol ?I will just buy a ready built unit.Hank On Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 6:36:19 PM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor.? Display can be in many formats.? These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | | | | | | | | Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Ian,?Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. ?I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CTHank On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: #yiv2679426800 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv2679426800 Hi Hank! you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display):https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like:https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. Cheers!? Ian.P.S.:? Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Hi All,It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. ?I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. ?Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? ?Any ideas are welcome.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Oct 30 22:44:21 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:44:21 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D6E121D-7C04-481B-A94C-D3C77371829F@yahoo.com> Jon, I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensive at $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old. There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated. It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap & expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this). The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin & mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference. Alan > On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor. Display can be in many formats. These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Ian, > Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CT > Hank > > On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi Hank! > > you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. > > You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display): > https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 > > But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like: > https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html > > The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. > > Cheers! > Ian. > P.S.: Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Hi All, > It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? Any ideas are welcome. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 11:00:39 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <2D6E121D-7C04-481B-A94C-D3C77371829F@yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> <2D6E121D-7C04-481B-A94C-D3C77371829F@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2142179184.20458472.1540998039458@mail.yahoo.com> Alan, For the most part, it's about accuracy.? This device has been around for many years, it's true, but that's because the specs are very good.? It also performs all the calculations spitting out compass heading, yaw, pitch, in a directly usable format as well as being tilt compensated up to 60 degrees (I think).? It can be mounted in three different planes which isn't so important from a PSUBS perspective but could be critical in some applications.? So for basic compass purposes it is definitely a Cadillac. There are many cheaper solid state compasses available but few are tilt-compensated and even a little bit of tilt has a major impact on the measurement output.? The tilt-compensation on the HMC-6343 really works well and it was important to me to know that the output I am seeing is as accurate as possible despite any wave action on the surface, or small balance issues under water. Any IMU with 9 degrees of freedom can be used to accomplish the same thing but they all output raw data that needs to be calculated, twisted, torqued, torched, hacksawed, and then welded back together again.? The HMC-6343 does that all internally and is simple to configure and program. The link I showed is a Canadian outlet so price is $188(CAD).? USA suppliers have them for $159(US) although they go into short supply occasionally.? Add on an arduino for $35 and a bit of time programming, and you have a nice accurate compass for less than $200(US). I have mine mounted in a small 1 inch PVC pipe with caps on both ends.? I will probably fill it with epoxy but I suspect the 1-ATM pvc will hold up fine for the depths I'll be at.? And yes, it will be mounted externally, probably 3 feet or so away from the metal hull.? However, with programming I can filter any deflection offset caused by the metal hull. Jon From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Jon,I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensiveat $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old.There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated.It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap& expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this).The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin &mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference.Alan? On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hank, I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor.? Display can be in many formats.? These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | | | | | | | | Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 | | | | From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: irox via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Ian,?Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. ?I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CTHank On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Hank! you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display):https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like:https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. Cheers!? Ian.P.S.:? Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) -----Original Message----- From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Hi All,It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. ?I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. ?Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? ?Any ideas are welcome.Hank _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 11:11:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:11:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <477330983.497267.1540947215065@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> <477330983.497267.1540947215065@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <911748977.20462958.1540998669838@mail.yahoo.com> I can configure and program it for you if you want to go that route.? I'm in Florida currently but will be back in NH in December.? When I get there I can take a video of the display and setup, and show you how it works.? But you should be able to find it on youtube as well. ESPresso Lite HMC6343 | | | | | | | | | | | ESPresso Lite HMC6343 http://shahrulnizam.com/espresso-lite-hmc6343/ | | | | Digital Compass Modules with Engineer Chris Taylor | | | | | | | | | | | Digital Compass Modules with Engineer Chris Taylor Engineer, Chris Taylor talks about digital compass modules, how they work, what you might use them for and some ... | | | | SparkFun 8-8-14 Product Showcase: OH! Magnet Meter | | | | | | | | | | | SparkFun 8-8-14 Product Showcase: OH! Magnet Meter HMC6343 Breakout: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12916 RFID Reader Breakout: https://www.sparkfun.com/product... | | | | From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles To: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Hi Jon,Thanks for the info, but way over my head. lol ?I will just buy a ready built unit.Hank #yiv6538506496 -- DIV {margin:0px;}#yiv6538506496 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 12:31:02 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 10:31:02 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <2142179184.20458472.1540998039458@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> <2D6E121D-7C04-481B-A94C-D3C77371829F@yahoo.com> <2142179184.20458472.1540998039458@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15C5EA96-0534-4BB0-8733-02F51A2128D8@yahoo.ca> Jon. Great, when your I will take you up on that. I like the no moving parts part of these. Hank Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 31, 2018, at 9:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > For the most part, it's about accuracy. This device has been around for many years, it's true, but that's because the specs are very good. It also performs all the calculations spitting out compass heading, yaw, pitch, in a directly usable format as well as being tilt compensated up to 60 degrees (I think). It can be mounted in three different planes which isn't so important from a PSUBS perspective but could be critical in some applications. So for basic compass purposes it is definitely a Cadillac. > > There are many cheaper solid state compasses available but few are tilt-compensated and even a little bit of tilt has a major impact on the measurement output. The tilt-compensation on the HMC-6343 really works well and it was important to me to know that the output I am seeing is as accurate as possible despite any wave action on the surface, or small balance issues under water. > > Any IMU with 9 degrees of freedom can be used to accomplish the same thing but they all output raw data that needs to be calculated, twisted, torqued, torched, hacksawed, and then welded back together again. The HMC-6343 does that all internally and is simple to configure and program. > > The link I showed is a Canadian outlet so price is $188(CAD). USA suppliers have them for $159(US) although they go into short supply occasionally. Add on an arduino for $35 and a bit of time programming, and you have a nice accurate compass for less than $200(US). > > I have mine mounted in a small 1 inch PVC pipe with caps on both ends. I will probably fill it with epoxy but I suspect the 1-ATM pvc will hold up fine for the depths I'll be at. And yes, it will be mounted externally, probably 3 feet or so away from the metal hull. However, with programming I can filter any deflection offset caused by the metal hull. > > Jon > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Jon, > I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensive > at $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old. > There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated. > It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap > & expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this). > The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin & > mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference. > Alan > > >> On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor. Display can be in many formats. These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. >> >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> >> >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass >> >> Ian, >> Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CT >> Hank >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Hank! >> >> you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. >> >> You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display): >> https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 >> >> But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like: >> https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html >> >> The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. >> >> Cheers! >> Ian. >> P.S.: Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass >> >> Hi All, >> It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? Any ideas are welcome. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 13:36:26 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 10:36:26 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mold and plug Message-ID: <20181031103626.AD0D8740@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMAG0380.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1159363 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 13:38:37 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 10:38:37 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Here's the plug Message-ID: <20181031103837.AD0D873E@m0117565.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMAG0383.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2154989 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 16:53:54 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 09:53:54 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] mold and plug In-Reply-To: <20181031103626.AD0D8740@m0117565.ppops.net> References: <20181031103626.AD0D8740@m0117565.ppops.net> Message-ID: <6F2134C5-9A92-4B26-BC46-537D5795F5B8@yahoo.com> Thanks Brian, a bit of money & effort involved in that. Hate to think what I spent on resin just on my small ambient sub. Alan > On 1/11/2018, at 6:36 AM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Here is my mold and the plug that it was made from: > > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 17:20:48 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:20:48 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <2142179184.20458472.1540998039458@mail.yahoo.com> References: <579308381.19654.1540860176767@wamui-merida.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <175955786.18724473.1540861814615@mail.yahoo.com> <1743910480.20115076.1540946161327@mail.yahoo.com> <2D6E121D-7C04-481B-A94C-D3C77371829F@yahoo.com> <2142179184.20458472.1540998039458@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jon, thanks for that. On holiday in Florida keys till December, that's pretty cool. I googled & found this item CMPS12 for US $29.90 https://www.robotshop.com/en/tilt-compensated-magnetic-compass-cmps12.html documentation... https://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/files/cmps12.pdf There are some good reviews on it. One from a guy that is using it on a rov. Any opinion on this? Hank will need to display the compass on a screen of some sort. If he is buying some sort of HMI to display it he may as well have his other sensors, battery voltage etc displayed on it! He is really on a slippery slope now. Alan > On 1/11/2018, at 4:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > For the most part, it's about accuracy. This device has been around for many years, it's true, but that's because the specs are very good. It also performs all the calculations spitting out compass heading, yaw, pitch, in a directly usable format as well as being tilt compensated up to 60 degrees (I think). It can be mounted in three different planes which isn't so important from a PSUBS perspective but could be critical in some applications. So for basic compass purposes it is definitely a Cadillac. > > There are many cheaper solid state compasses available but few are tilt-compensated and even a little bit of tilt has a major impact on the measurement output. The tilt-compensation on the HMC-6343 really works well and it was important to me to know that the output I am seeing is as accurate as possible despite any wave action on the surface, or small balance issues under water. > > Any IMU with 9 degrees of freedom can be used to accomplish the same thing but they all output raw data that needs to be calculated, twisted, torqued, torched, hacksawed, and then welded back together again. The HMC-6343 does that all internally and is simple to configure and program. > > The link I showed is a Canadian outlet so price is $188(CAD). USA suppliers have them for $159(US) although they go into short supply occasionally. Add on an arduino for $35 and a bit of time programming, and you have a nice accurate compass for less than $200(US). > > I have mine mounted in a small 1 inch PVC pipe with caps on both ends. I will probably fill it with epoxy but I suspect the 1-ATM pvc will hold up fine for the depths I'll be at. And yes, it will be mounted externally, probably 3 feet or so away from the metal hull. However, with programming I can filter any deflection offset caused by the metal hull. > > Jon > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Jon, > I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensive > at $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old. > There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated. > It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap > & expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this). > The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin & > mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference. > Alan > > >> On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hank, >> >> I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor. Display can be in many formats. These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. >> >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> >> >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 >> >> >> >> >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> To: irox via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass >> >> Ian, >> Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CT >> Hank >> >> On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Hank! >> >> you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. >> >> You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display): >> https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 >> >> But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like: >> https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html >> >> The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. >> >> Cheers! >> Ian. >> P.S.: Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles >> Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM >> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion >> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass >> >> Hi All, >> It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? Any ideas are welcome. >> Hank >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 19:12:09 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:12:09 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass Message-ID: <20181031161209.AD0D5225@m0117459.ppops.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 19:28:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:28:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <20181031161209.AD0D5225@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20181031161209.AD0D5225@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, no. I was referring to Jon's earlier comments that he was in the Florida Keys till December. My neighbour is travelling around there at the moment. I think he said he'd been 22 times! Alan > On 1/11/2018, at 12:12 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Are you in the states ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:20:48 +1300 > > Jon, > thanks for that. On holiday in Florida keys till December, that's pretty cool. > I googled & found this item CMPS12 for US $29.90 > https://www.robotshop.com/en/tilt-compensated-magnetic-compass-cmps12.html > documentation... > https://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/files/cmps12.pdf > There are some good reviews on it. One from a guy that is using it on a rov. > Any opinion on this? > Hank will need to display the compass on a screen of some sort. > If he is buying some sort of HMI to display it he may as well have his other > sensors, battery voltage etc displayed on it! He is really on a slippery slope now. > Alan > > > On 1/11/2018, at 4:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > For the most part, it's about accuracy. This device has been around for many years, it's true, but that's because the specs are very good. It also performs all the calculations spitting out compass heading, yaw, pitch, in a directly usable format as well as being tilt compensated up to 60 degrees (I think). It can be mounted in three different planes which isn't so important from a PSUBS perspective but could be critical in some applications. So for basic compass purposes it is definitely a Cadillac. > > There are many cheaper solid state compasses available but few are tilt-compensated and even a little bit of tilt has a major impact on the measurement output. The tilt-compensation on the HMC-6343 really works well and it was important to me to know that the output I am seeing is as accurate as possible despite any wave action on the surface, or small balance issues under water. > > Any IMU with 9 degrees of freedom can be used to accomplish the same thing but they all output raw data that needs to be calculated, twisted, torqued, torched, hacksawed, and then welded back together again. The HMC-6343 does that all internally and is simple to configure and program. > > The link I showed is a Canadian outlet so price is $188(CAD). USA suppliers have them for $159(US) although they go into short supply occasionally. Add on an arduino for $35 and a bit of time programming, and you have a nice accurate compass for less than $200(US). > > I have mine mounted in a small 1 inch PVC pipe with caps on both ends. I will probably fill it with epoxy but I suspect the 1-ATM pvc will hold up fine for the depths I'll be at. And yes, it will be mounted externally, probably 3 feet or so away from the metal hull. However, with programming I can filter any deflection offset caused by the metal hull. > > Jon > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Jon, > I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensive > at $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old. > There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated. > It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap > & expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this). > The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin & > mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference. > Alan > > > On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor. Display can be in many formats. These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Ian, > Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CT > Hank > > On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi Hank! > > you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. > > You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display): > https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 > > But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like: > https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html > > The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. > > Cheers! > Ian. > P.S.: Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Hi All, > It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? Any ideas are welcome. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Oct 31 19:28:57 2018 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:28:57 +1300 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass In-Reply-To: <20181031161209.AD0D5225@m0117459.ppops.net> References: <20181031161209.AD0D5225@m0117459.ppops.net> Message-ID: Brian, no. I was referring to Jon's earlier comments that he was in the Florida Keys till December. My neighbour is travelling around there at the moment. I think he said he'd been 22 times! Alan > On 1/11/2018, at 12:12 PM, Brian Cox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, Are you in the states ? > > Brian > > > > --- personal_submersibles at psubs.org wrote: > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 10:20:48 +1300 > > Jon, > thanks for that. On holiday in Florida keys till December, that's pretty cool. > I googled & found this item CMPS12 for US $29.90 > https://www.robotshop.com/en/tilt-compensated-magnetic-compass-cmps12.html > documentation... > https://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/files/cmps12.pdf > There are some good reviews on it. One from a guy that is using it on a rov. > Any opinion on this? > Hank will need to display the compass on a screen of some sort. > If he is buying some sort of HMI to display it he may as well have his other > sensors, battery voltage etc displayed on it! He is really on a slippery slope now. > Alan > > > On 1/11/2018, at 4:00 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Alan, > > For the most part, it's about accuracy. This device has been around for many years, it's true, but that's because the specs are very good. It also performs all the calculations spitting out compass heading, yaw, pitch, in a directly usable format as well as being tilt compensated up to 60 degrees (I think). It can be mounted in three different planes which isn't so important from a PSUBS perspective but could be critical in some applications. So for basic compass purposes it is definitely a Cadillac. > > There are many cheaper solid state compasses available but few are tilt-compensated and even a little bit of tilt has a major impact on the measurement output. The tilt-compensation on the HMC-6343 really works well and it was important to me to know that the output I am seeing is as accurate as possible despite any wave action on the surface, or small balance issues under water. > > Any IMU with 9 degrees of freedom can be used to accomplish the same thing but they all output raw data that needs to be calculated, twisted, torqued, torched, hacksawed, and then welded back together again. The HMC-6343 does that all internally and is simple to configure and program. > > The link I showed is a Canadian outlet so price is $188(CAD). USA suppliers have them for $159(US) although they go into short supply occasionally. Add on an arduino for $35 and a bit of time programming, and you have a nice accurate compass for less than $200(US). > > I have mine mounted in a small 1 inch PVC pipe with caps on both ends. I will probably fill it with epoxy but I suspect the 1-ATM pvc will hold up fine for the depths I'll be at. And yes, it will be mounted externally, probably 3 feet or so away from the metal hull. However, with programming I can filter any deflection offset caused by the metal hull. > > Jon > > From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Jon, > I have to buy a compass some time so looked it up but it's pretty expensive > at $188-. I also saw a video on it dated 2010, so it's at least 8 years old. > There are modules for less than $20- but not tilt compensated. > It does say it is "high end" but is there much difference between a cheap > & expensive compass? ( I know nothing about this). > The thought came to mind that you could possibly cover it with resin & > mount it outside the hull away from magnetic interference. > Alan > > > On 31/10/2018, at 1:36 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hank, > > I use HMC6343 tilt compensated compass from Honeywell, with arduino or Raspberry pi microprocessor. Display can be in many formats. These are sometimes hard to get but looks like CANAKIT has some. > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > Compass with Tilt Compensation - HMC6343 > > > > > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > To: irox via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Ian, > Thank you, sorry about the sharp bracket. I will mount the new one on a plastic pole behind the CT > Hank > > On Monday, October 29, 2018, 6:43:07 PM MDT, irox via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hi Hank! > > you could google for "Fluxgate compass" and see what you're comfortable with from an electronics point of view. > > You could build your own for ~$50 ($15 for compass, ~ $10 for microcontroller, ~$20 for a display): > https://www.adafruit.com/product/1120 > > But I imagine you'd prefer something more turn key, like: > https://www.starmarinedepot.com/clipper-compass-system-w%2Fremovable-fluxgate-sensor.html > > The sensor would need mounted outside, away from the hull, like a regular compass. > > Cheers! > Ian. > P.S.: Please make it less sharp that the current compass mounting bracket on Gamma. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > Sent: Oct 29, 2018 5:23 PM > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] compass > > Hi All, > It is time to deal with a compass for Gamma. I would like a solid state compass with no moving parts. Jon, I think you mentioned I could do something for 200 dollars? Any ideas are welcome. > Hank > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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