[PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor

Thu Oct 4 21:36:38 EDT 2018

Hugh,
it seemed simple to begin with!
I still feel the concept of using an outrunner motor is good because
of the high torque that eliminates the need for a gearbox.
Heat is definitely the big enemy of these small motors & I found they
can maintain temperature in oil running them at close to 2hp.
That's in a bucket of oil! 
There are people using them oil compensated in underwater linear
actuators & they expound the virtues of being able to get a lot of power
from a small package using these motors.
I am nearly there!
Alan

> On 5/10/2018, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> What comes to mind is the old biblical proverb.
>  
> Saul, Saul, why kickest thou against the pricks!
>  
> You’re a tiger for punishment.  But I guess learning always comes at a price.
> At least it is interesting and we are having fun.
>  
> Cheers,  Hugh
>  
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2018 12:53 PM
> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] eRe: Alan's new motor
>  
> Alan,
> If it was easy,,, well you know 
> Hank
>  
> On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 5:44:22 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hank,
> yes, this was what happened in my last pool test. I had a different motor &
> ran it for 30hrs before it self destructed. I had noticed the oil moving up the line
> when the thruster started. I didn't have a temperature sensor but must have
> really cooked it. Multiple things went wrong. It had 3 hall sensors & they could
> be moved about to adjust the motor timing by heating the glue their board was
> glued on with. It came lose so the motor timing would be seriously out of whack
> causing more heating. Then there was the bad press fit of the stainless shaft
> I made for it......am learning.
> Alan
>  
>  
> 
> On 5/10/2018, at 9:28 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> Ya, I thought you were just trying to stop oil from migrating up the hose, but the oil is being forced up by centrifugal forces from the armature. 
> Hank
>  
> On Thursday, October 4, 2018, 1:50:10 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Thanks Hank,
> I like your method for making the bushing. It doesn't warrant a bearing
> & as I said the ceramic bearings are expensive. 
> I was a bit confused about the oil trap but kept quiet :)
> Alan
>  
> 
> On 5/10/2018, at 12:40 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> I just realized I misunderstood what your goal is, my idea of a oil trap will not help keep the oil in the motor.    The joints in my arm are plastic bushings made from PVC.  I use a hole saw to make a round plastic disk 1\2 in thick, then I machine a shoulder in the disk that fits tight into the arm member.  The disk has a centre hole drilled for the centre pin.  Seems to work real nice and is quick to make.
> Hank
>  
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 7:13:05 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hank,
> the oil tube is clear, so I'll monitor the oil level in the tube & see if
> additional over pressure helps first. Also I have a temperature sensor
> in the motor so if the motor runs cool enough I won't worry.
> Did you put bearings in the joints of your manipulator, or not bother?
> I am still running with the idea of a manipulator with an open gearbox
> & underwater motor. I can get ceramic bearings but they are expensive.
> Alan 
> 
> On 4/10/2018, at 12:23 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan, all you need is to interrupt the oil pathway, just take a larger container \pipe\ whatever and have the lower tube enter at the bottom of the vessel and have the exiting tube leave on the opposite side above it.  I use this method as a water  trap for my steam engine, under pressure.
> Hank
>  
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 3:39:28 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hank,
> I have the wires running out of the motor through the tube that the
> oil comes in through. At a point in that line I have a T where the wires
> are epoxied & run without the tubing to the through hull, and the tubing
> continues on to the oil compensator. The compensator has a low oil
> level switch, so there should always be oil in the line.
> There is increasing ambient pressure going in to the housing as you 
> dive, so not sure how you would relieve that on ascent with some sort
> of oil trap! But I am not sure what idea you have.
> I am stuck on an Island for 3 weeks looking after a dog & cat then my
> other daughter is flying in & stealing my car, so won't be
> making any rapid progress on this :(. 
> Alan
>  
>  
> 
> On 4/10/2018, at 9:29 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> You can make a oil trap in the compensation tube, its real simple.
> Hank
>  
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 12:32:59 PM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hank,
> I am hoping I can dial up the over pressure to the point that it
> keeps the oil down. (like blowing in to a straw forcing the liquid out)
> The oil goes in through a clear tube so I can monitor the level.
> I am not confident though; however oil compensation has been
> around for a long time. 
> Unfortunately I can't put a one way valve in the system as the 
> pressure won't be able to escape on ascent.
> Below is the motor in oil without the proppeller.
> Alan
> <image1.JPG>
> 
> On 4/10/2018, at 1:34 AM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> I have had similar situation, the oil will still come up the tube.  The over pressure makes no difference, unless there is a piston or diaphragm blocking the oil.
> Hank
>  
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 2:53:29 AM MDT, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>  
>  
> Hank,
> yes very patient "lol" as this might not be the final version.
> I have tested the motor out of the housing in a bucket of oil & established
> that it could only be run at 30 Amps without overheating. It causes quite 
> a turbulence running in oil with no prop on due to the open design of a rotating 
> back section. It will want to force oil out of the housing & up the oil feed tube,
> but I am hoping the overpressure from my oil compensator will keep the oil
> in around the motor. 
> Am learning a lot on each attempt.
> Alan
>  
>  
> 
> On 3/10/2018, at 9:06 PM, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan, your patience is amazing.  I would be itching to test it before sending it away for anodizing.  
> Hank
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> <image1.JPG>
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20181005/72a75a13/attachment-0001.html>