From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 14 15:29:24 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2025 19:29:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> I am in the middle of the R400 build. I am trying to source four Minn-Kota 101 lower units, part number 2886289 or similar. Minn Kota has discontinued manufacturing these replacement lower units, so I am hoping you might have squirreled away some and would be willing to let me purchase them from you. Alternatively, can you share if you know of a source with or without the support shaft?? I know MK now makes a 4.5" diameter lower unit rated at 112 lbs, but this will not work with the thruster parts I have already fabricated. Cliff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1744658567944blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 280678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 14 18:23:39 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2025 22:23:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> Have you tried TrollingMotorParts.com? On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 05:09:04 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am in the middle of the R400 build. I am trying to source four Minn-Kota 101 lower units, part number 2886289 or similar. Minn Kota has discontinued manufacturing these replacement lower units, so I am hoping you might have squirreled away some and would be willing to let me purchase them from you. Alternatively, can you share if you know of a source with or without the support shaft?? I know MK now makes a 4.5" diameter lower unit rated at 112 lbs, but this will not work with the thruster parts I have already fabricated. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1744658567944blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 280678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 16 22:09:53 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:09:53 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, When I Started the SeaQuestor I bought 6 lower units with props of the salt water 101. I put 2 on the VAST, Its going to be quite some time before I even get close to getting ready to mount units on the SeaQuestor. I have two units still in their original boxes that could be shipped to you. I can check to see what I paid for them. With their weight I have no Idea on shipping cost but can look into it for you. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 3:24?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Have you tried TrollingMotorParts.com? > > > > On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 05:09:04 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I am in the middle of the R400 build. I am trying to source four Minn-Kota > 101 lower units, part number 2886289 or similar. Minn Kota has discontinued > manufacturing these replacement lower units, so I am hoping you might have > squirreled away some and would be willing to let me purchase them from you. > Alternatively, can you share if you know of a source with or without the > support shaft? I know MK now makes a 4.5" diameter lower unit rated at 112 > lbs, but this will not work with the thruster parts I have already > fabricated. > > [image: Inline image] > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1744658567944blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 280678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 16 22:51:11 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 02:51:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. It may make them prohibitive. I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here settles down. Cheers. Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 17 12:22:29 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:22:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1518375182.2933916.1744906950052@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, Dave, for making these two saltwater MK 101 available.? I am working on multiple angles on this as we speak.? As Jon suggested, I reached out to?Trollingmotorparts.com with a part list for the freshwater MD-101.? I will see what it would cost to buy all the parts for the four thrusters and assemble.? Even if I get complete lower units, for the R400 I have modified the brushed end to accept three standoffs to support the ducted nozzle for the two horizontal thrusters.? All of these need to be modified to accept the new HP seal approach that Alec and I developed.? After I hear back from?Trollingmotorparts.com, I will know the cost of going this route.?? After you hear back from your supplier, we can decide whether to use your two saltwater lower units. I will be in touch off-list when I hear back.? Let me know if you find out anything from your supplier. Thanks for the help. Cheers! On Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 09:13:27 PM CDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Cliff, When I Started the SeaQuestor I bought 6 lower units with props of the salt water 101. I put 2 on the VAST,? Its going to be quite some time before I even get close to getting ready to mount units on the SeaQuestor. I have two units still in their original boxes that could be shipped to you. I can check to see what I paid for them. With their weight I have no Idea on shipping cost but can look into it for you.? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 3:24?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Have you tried TrollingMotorParts.com? On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 05:09:04 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I am in the middle of the R400 build. I am trying to source four Minn-Kota 101 lower units, part number 2886289 or similar. Minn Kota has discontinued manufacturing these replacement lower units, so I am hoping you might have squirreled away some and would be willing to let me purchase them from you. Alternatively, can you share if you know of a source with or without the support shaft?? I know MK now makes a 4.5" diameter lower unit rated at 112 lbs, but this will not work with the thruster parts I have already fabricated. Cliff _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1744658567944blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 280678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 17 12:30:32 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 16:30:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <693279349.2949479.1744907432634@mail.yahoo.com> Good to hear from you, Alan.? I am locked into the MK-101 because of design constraints.? It would take a lot of work to switch to the brushless motors you are working with; more than I want to do right now.? I am interested, however, in hearing the progress of any testing you do.? If the performance is good enough, I might consider a redesign, but at this point in the build, I just want to get the R400 in the water to test all the systems. OAS, I had planned on reaching out to the Chinese supplier you mentioned that has Subconn-compatible connectors, but my guess given the tariff war, this might scuttle this plan.? Nobody said building a PSub was easy. Cheers! On Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 10:43:43 PM CDT, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. It may make them prohibitive. I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here settles down. Cheers. Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 17 13:36:04 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 07:36:04 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when I bought them many years ago. I called them the other day and they reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any chances of marring the surfaces. Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg and have any advice, let me know. Rick On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get > desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. > It may make them prohibitive. > I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here > settles down. Cheers. > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 17 14:42:27 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 11:42:27 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <1518375182.2933916.1744906950052@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1518375182.2933916.1744906950052@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, My guy got back to me and said, "101's gone by the way of the Dodo". Also that the 112#, 4.5" dia motor is considerably heavier and more expensive and at speed draw more amps then the 101's. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 9:23?AM Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks, Dave, for making these two saltwater MK 101 available. I am > working on multiple angles on this as we speak. As Jon suggested, I > reached out to Trollingmotorparts.com with a part list for the freshwater > MD-101. I will see what it would cost to buy all the parts for the four > thrusters and assemble. Even if I get complete lower units, for the R400 I > have modified the brushed end to accept three standoffs to support the > ducted nozzle for the two horizontal thrusters. All of these need to be > modified to accept the new HP seal approach that Alec and I developed. > After I hear back from Trollingmotorparts.com, I will know the cost of > going this route. > > After you hear back from your supplier, we can decide whether to use your > two saltwater lower units. > > I will be in touch off-list when I hear back. Let me know if you find out > anything from your supplier. > > Thanks for the help. > > Cheers! > > On Wednesday, April 16, 2025 at 09:13:27 PM CDT, David Colombo via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Cliff, When I Started the SeaQuestor I bought 6 lower units with props > of the salt water 101. I put 2 on the VAST, Its going to be quite some > time before I even get close to getting ready to mount units on the > SeaQuestor. I have two units still in their original boxes that could be > shipped to you. I can check to see what I paid for them. With their weight > I have no Idea on shipping cost but can look into it for you. > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 3:24?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Have you tried TrollingMotorParts.com? > > > > On Monday, April 14, 2025 at 05:09:04 PM EDT, Cliff Redus via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I am in the middle of the R400 build. I am trying to source four Minn-Kota > 101 lower units, part number 2886289 or similar. Minn Kota has discontinued > manufacturing these replacement lower units, so I am hoping you might have > squirreled away some and would be willing to let me purchase them from you. > Alternatively, can you share if you know of a source with or without the > support shaft? I know MK now makes a 4.5" diameter lower unit rated at 112 > lbs, but this will not work with the thruster parts I have already > fabricated. > > [image: Inline image] > Cliff > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1744658567944blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 280678 bytes Desc: not available URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 17 15:13:49 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 19:13:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> Rick, I had the same issue.? I soaked them in a bucket of water for 2-3 days then scraped as much off with my fingernails as possible.? I soaked the remaining with goo-gone.? It took a long time and many applications but I was eventually able to remove it.? I also polished mine afterwards to get out any scratches that might have been there from the removal process. On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 01:38:36 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when I bought them many years ago.? I called them the other? day? and they reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any chances of marring the surfaces.Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg and have any advice, let me know. Rick On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. It may make them prohibitive. I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here settles down. Cheers. Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 13:21:07 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 07:21:07 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jon, what type of product did you use for the polishing? Rick On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:15?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, I had the same issue. I soaked them in a bucket of water for 2-3 > days then scraped as much off with my fingernails as possible. I soaked > the remaining with goo-gone. It took a long time and many applications but > I was eventually able to remove it. I also polished mine afterwards to get > out any scratches that might have been there from the removal process. > > > > On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 01:38:36 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for > removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective > material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when > I bought them many years ago. I called them the other day and they > reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or > kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check > with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any > chances of marring the surfaces. > Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg > and have any advice, let me know. > > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get > desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. > It may make them prohibitive. > I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here > settles down. Cheers. > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 13:54:06 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 17:54:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> I used NOVUS with polishing pads on an orbital sander. On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 01:23:27 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Thanks Jon, what type of product did you use for the polishing?? Rick On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:15?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, I had the same issue.? I soaked them in a bucket of water for 2-3 days then scraped as much off with my fingernails as possible.? I soaked the remaining with goo-gone.? It took a long time and many applications but I was eventually able to remove it.? I also polished mine afterwards to get out any scratches that might have been there from the removal process. On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 01:38:36 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when I bought them many years ago.? I called them the other? day? and they reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any chances of marring the surfaces.Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg and have any advice, let me know. Rick On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. It may make them prohibitive. I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here settles down. Cheers. Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 17:54:56 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:54:56 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ? On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 7:55?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I used NOVUS with polishing pads on an orbital sander. > > > > On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 01:23:27 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Jon, what type of product did you use for the polishing? > > > Rick > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:15?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, I had the same issue. I soaked them in a bucket of water for 2-3 > days then scraped as much off with my fingernails as possible. I soaked > the remaining with goo-gone. It took a long time and many applications but > I was eventually able to remove it. I also polished mine afterwards to get > out any scratches that might have been there from the removal process. > > > > On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 01:38:36 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for > removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective > material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when > I bought them many years ago. I called them the other day and they > reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or > kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check > with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any > chances of marring the surfaces. > Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg > and have any advice, let me know. > > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get > desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. > It may make them prohibitive. > I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here > settles down. Cheers. > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 18:14:42 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 12:14:42 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 Message-ID: I just finished my K-350! I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it. I also have 44 hours into the trailer. I also started this project 21 years ago? Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 18:26:02 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 22:26:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <706792263.3394630.1745015162617@mail.yahoo.com> Congratulations Rick. Have you had it under the water? Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:16 am, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 18:52:21 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Greg via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 17:52:21 -0500 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <706792263.3394630.1745015162617@mail.yahoo.com> References: <706792263.3394630.1745015162617@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D7B311D-3055-4E72-856A-80BE6554E7B5@edison.tech> Way to go Rick!!! There is hope for the rest of us! Best personal regards, Greg > > On Apr 18, 2025 at 5:27 PM, wrote: > > > Congratulations Rick. Have you had it under the water? > > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer (https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=US_Acquisition_YMktg_315_SearchOrgConquer_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=US_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100002039&af_sub5=C01_Email_Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=0c38e4b0-a27e-40f9-a211-f4e2de32ab91&af_android_url=https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail&listing=search_organize_conquer) > > > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:16 am, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I just finished my K-350! > > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it. > > > > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > > > > I also started this project 21 years ago? > > > > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org (mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org) > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 19:02:35 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (John Bussard via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:02:35 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26D39398-F37F-47AC-9C5C-3F0B3B7D3226@gmail.com> Congratulations, Rick! Well done. John Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 18, 2025, at 15:15, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > ? > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 19:36:06 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 19:36:06 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well now Rick, CONGRATS! Please share baby photos! On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 6:15?PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 > hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't > think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 20:07:47 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 14:07:47 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <5D7B311D-3055-4E72-856A-80BE6554E7B5@edison.tech> References: <706792263.3394630.1745015162617@mail.yahoo.com> <5D7B311D-3055-4E72-856A-80BE6554E7B5@edison.tech> Message-ID: Thanks guys. As soon as I put the other 8 ports in then she's ready to dip. It's kind of funny as I keep thinking that there is something else I have forgotten after it taking me so long to build. Rick On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 1:47?PM Greg via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Way to go Rick!!! > There is hope for the rest of us! > Best personal regards, > Greg > > > > On Apr 18, 2025 at 5:27 PM, > wrote: > > Congratulations Rick. Have you had it under the water? > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:16 am, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 > hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't > think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles > mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 20:12:04 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 17:12:04 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: <706792263.3394630.1745015162617@mail.yahoo.com> <5D7B311D-3055-4E72-856A-80BE6554E7B5@edison.tech> Message-ID: Congratulations Rick, Who's going to be with you on its first dip? Do you have a date and time? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 5:08?PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks guys. As soon as I put the other 8 ports in then she's ready to > dip. It's kind of funny as I keep thinking that there is something else I > have forgotten after it taking me so long to build. > > > Rick > > On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 1:47?PM Greg via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Way to go Rick!!! >> There is hope for the rest of us! >> Best personal regards, >> Greg >> >> >> >> On Apr 18, 2025 at 5:27 PM, > > wrote: >> >> Congratulations Rick. Have you had it under the water? >> >> Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer >> >> >> On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:16 am, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles >> wrote: >> I just finished my K-350! >> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >> hours into it. >> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >> I also started this project 21 years ago? >> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >> don't think I will share that with my wife! >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles >> mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 20:46:10 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 00:46:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <647156896.3429053.1745023570576@mail.yahoo.com> Congratulations Rick!? A job well done!! On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 06:16:59 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Fri Apr 18 23:45:52 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 17:45:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <647156896.3429053.1745023570576@mail.yahoo.com> References: <647156896.3429053.1745023570576@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 19 16:02:45 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 21:02:45 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: <647156896.3429053.1745023570576@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congratulations Rick! On Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 04:47, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Well I just added it up. Lots of receipts ! > It came out to roughly $32,000 which includes the metal for the trailer, > Hanks arm and Alec?s time to assemble it. > This isn?t an exact number but as close as I could get. > > Rick > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 18, 2025, at 2:47?PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Congratulations Rick! A job well done!! > > > > On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 06:16:59 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 > hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't > think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sat Apr 19 16:37:44 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 20:37:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick,Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today.Hank On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 13:23:58 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 10:23:58 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> References: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congratulations, Rick. Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. Tim On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. > Hank > > On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 > hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't > think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 14:28:34 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 11:28:34 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, What part of the country are you in? Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Congratulations, Rick. > Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. > Tim > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Hi Rick, >> Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I just finished my K-350! >> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >> hours into it. >> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >> I also started this project 21 years ago? >> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >> don't think I will share that with my wife! >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 14:52:39 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 08:52:39 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor. I live on the Big Island David. On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, What part of the country are you in? > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Congratulations, Rick. >> Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. >> Tim >> >> On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Rick, >>> Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I just finished my K-350! >>> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >>> hours into it. >>> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >>> I also started this project 21 years ago? >>> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >>> don't think I will share that with my wife! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 19:03:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 16:03:59 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: <376760899.3595154.1745095064616@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Rick, Heading back to Maui in January, If we jump to the big island I'll hit you up for a visit. Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 12:22?PM Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor. > I live on the Big Island David. > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, What part of the country are you in? >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Congratulations, Rick. >>> Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. >>> Tim >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Rick, >>>> Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. >>>> Hank >>>> >>>> On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I just finished my K-350! >>>> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >>>> hours into it. >>>> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >>>> I also started this project 21 years ago? >>>> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >>>> don't think I will share that with my wife! >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 20:05:38 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 00:05:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PC2026 Announcement References: <947561344.221225.1745280338527.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <947561344.221225.1745280338527@mail.yahoo.com> Announcing the 2026 PSUBS Convention ? PC2026 Location: Islamorada, Florida KeysDates: Jan 31-Feb 7, 2026 We are pleased to announce that the planning of PC2026 hasbegun and we are looking forward to seeing you there.? This will be our third trip to the FloridaKeys where we expect both air and water temperatures to be in the low 70?s (F)coupled with plenty of sunshine. We currently have five submarines committed to attendingthis event including Shackleton, VAST-250, Aquatic, Snoopy, as well as the longawaited unveiling and world premiere of R400.?We expect more PSUBS vessels will be included which will make this amust-see convention for anyone whom has even a passing interest in small mannedsubmarines. HOW CAN YOU HELP? Submarine OwnersWe welcome all vessels including submarines, ROV?s, and AUV?s.? If you?ve got one, we want to see itregardless of whether it is dive-ready, under-construction, or should be in amuseum and we hope you will consider bringing it to this convention.? Please contact admin at psubs.org if you are interested indoing so. SpeakersWe expect to hold technical sessions at this event andinvite you to share your experience or expertise with the group.? We accept almost any subject matter as longas it has some connection to either submersibles or underwaterexploration.? Please contact admin at psubs.org for more info. Please watch this space or the PSUBS website for moredetails as our planning continues. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 23:42:22 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:42:22 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 21 23:43:07 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:43:07 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> References: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53C22D42-D250-4107-B635-912FA770CFA6@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 22 08:13:10 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 12:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> References: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> Message-ID: <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone.? However Alec has proven that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it was a comfortable ride.? I am still struggling with the emergency drop weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the scuttle valve on the rear head.? For that reason, until I can come up with a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. Jon On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty on the second!I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems and get her dialed in.?I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone to lay safely and comfortably though??Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to know about it before she gets too heavy to recover.First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? Rick? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: ?Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor.?I live on the Big Island David. On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, What part of the country are you in?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations, Rick.Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes.Tim On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick,Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today.Hank On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 22 12:26:52 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 06:26:52 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> References: <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69BF229D-DFDE-4911-9161-DE313E27340E@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 22 15:56:18 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 21:56:18 +0200 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601dbb3c0$9eb0ef10$dc12cd30$@airesearch.nl> Congrats Rick! Many happy dives! BR, Emile Van: Personal_Submersibles Namens Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles Verzonden: zaterdag 19 april 2025 00:15 Aan: psubs chat room Onderwerp: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 I just finished my K-350! I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it. I also have 44 hours into the trailer. I also started this project 21 years ago? Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 22 16:35:57 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2025 10:35:57 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewports Message-ID: <0070B4EB-3B46-4E2F-B82D-69370EC05504@gmail.com> FYI, I tried kerosene per manufacturer?s recommendation and it worked like a charm!! For those who have bought their acrylic a while ago and they have been sitting with a stick on protection layer on them, might be a good idea to remove it sooner than later and use soft rags to protect them until needed. Rick Sent from my iPhone From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 23 10:00:08 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> References: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1980508436.872128.1745416808760@mail.yahoo.com> Jon,With a sound deadening wall in my new sub, reaching the shut off valves could be a slow process. ?I drilled small holes in the end of the valve levers and attached push pull cables. ?The cables are really intended to shut the valve quickly. ?The cable end is located beside the pilot seat, and there are 6 of them. ?Now I can close and open the valves remotly.Hank On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 06:13:29 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone.? However Alec has proven that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it was a comfortable ride.? I am still struggling with the emergency drop weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the scuttle valve on the rear head.? For that reason, until I can come up with a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. Jon On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty on the second!I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems and get her dialed in.?I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone to lay safely and comfortably though??Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to know about it before she gets too heavy to recover.First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? Rick? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: ?Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor.?I live on the Big Island David. On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, What part of the country are you in?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations, Rick.Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes.Tim On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick,Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today.Hank On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 23 10:12:27 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 14:12:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <1980508436.872128.1745416808760@mail.yahoo.com> References: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> <1980508436.872128.1745416808760@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1017191158.883664.1745417547565@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Hank, I have had that thought rolling around my mind as a possible solution as well so I'm glad to hear that someone else has implemented it effectively. Jon On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 10:02:20 AM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon,With a sound deadening wall in my new sub, reaching the shut off valves could be a slow process. ?I drilled small holes in the end of the valve levers and attached push pull cables. ?The cables are really intended to shut the valve quickly. ?The cable end is located beside the pilot seat, and there are 6 of them. ?Now I can close and open the valves remotly.Hank On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 06:13:29 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone.? However Alec has proven that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it was a comfortable ride.? I am still struggling with the emergency drop weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the scuttle valve on the rear head.? For that reason, until I can come up with a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. Jon On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty on the second!I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems and get her dialed in.?I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone to lay safely and comfortably though??Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to know about it before she gets too heavy to recover.First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? Rick? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: ?Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor.?I live on the Big Island David. On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Rick, What part of the country are you in?Best Regards, David Colombo 804 College Ave Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 (707) 536-1424 www.SeaQuestor.com On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Congratulations, Rick.Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes.Tim On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Rick,Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today.Hank On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I just finished my K-350!?I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 hours into it.I also have 44 hours into the trailer.?I also started this project 21 years ago?Next I add up all my expenses?and will let you know what they are. I don't think I will share that with my wife!_______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 23 13:58:16 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 07:58:16 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: <1017191158.883664.1745417547565@mail.yahoo.com> References: <561505AD-6C4F-44E4-8F0A-98B24C611354@gmail.com> <167098028.360102.1745323990723@mail.yahoo.com> <1980508436.872128.1745416808760@mail.yahoo.com> <1017191158.883664.1745417547565@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also attached a pull cord that goes through the plywood floor for the VBT hull shut off as it pulls straight up but the other three in the back dome go athwartships so I would have to attach pulleys somehow. Rick On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 4:25?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Thanks Hank, I have had that thought rolling around my mind as a possible > solution as well so I'm glad to hear that someone else has implemented it > effectively. > > Jon > > > On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 10:02:20 AM EDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, > With a sound deadening wall in my new sub, reaching the shut off valves > could be a slow process. I drilled small holes in the end of the valve > levers and attached push pull cables. The cables are really intended to > shut the valve quickly. The cable end is located beside the pilot seat, > and there are 6 of them. Now I can close and open the valves remotly. > Hank > > > On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 06:13:29 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough > room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone. However Alec has proven > that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it > was a comfortable ride. I am still struggling with the emergency drop > weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another > person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the > scuttle valve on the rear head. For that reason, until I can come up with > a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. > > Jon > > > On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty on > the second! > I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems > and get her dialed in. > I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone to > lay safely and comfortably though?? > Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything > out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to > know about it before she gets too heavy to recover. > First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? > > Rick > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: > > ? > Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor. > I live on the Big Island David. > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, What part of the country are you in? > Best Regards, > David Colombo > > 804 College Ave > Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 > (707) 536-1424 > www.SeaQuestor.com > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Congratulations, Rick. > Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. > Tim > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hi Rick, > Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. > Hank > > On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I just finished my K-350! > I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 > hours into it. > I also have 44 hours into the trailer. > I also started this project 21 years ago? > Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I don't > think I will share that with my wife! > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 23 14:09:39 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 12:09:39 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 24 05:44:37 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 10:44:37 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rick. Bit of a late reply, but I used a car bonnet (you might call it the "hood") pull cable, connected to both drop weight handles. One pull of the cable releases both weights. It works surprisingly well for a simple solutions. I managed to find a pic of it on my old website. http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page23665.htm Regards James On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 at 19:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Rick, use marine push pull cables > Hank > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 23, 2025, at 11:58?AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > I also attached a pull cord that goes through the plywood floor for the > VBT hull shut off as it pulls straight up but the other three in the back > dome go athwartships so I would have to attach pulleys somehow. > > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 4:25?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Hank, I have had that thought rolling around my mind as a possible >> solution as well so I'm glad to hear that someone else has implemented it >> effectively. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 10:02:20 AM EDT, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, >> With a sound deadening wall in my new sub, reaching the shut off valves >> could be a slow process. I drilled small holes in the end of the valve >> levers and attached push pull cables. The cables are really intended to >> shut the valve quickly. The cable end is located beside the pilot seat, >> and there are 6 of them. Now I can close and open the valves remotly. >> Hank >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 06:13:29 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough >> room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone. However Alec has proven >> that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it >> was a comfortable ride. I am still struggling with the emergency drop >> weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another >> person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the >> scuttle valve on the rear head. For that reason, until I can come up with >> a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty on >> the second! >> I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems >> and get her dialed in. >> I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone to >> lay safely and comfortably though?? >> Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything >> out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to >> know about it before she gets too heavy to recover. >> First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? >> >> Rick >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: >> >> ? >> Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor. >> I live on the Big Island David. >> >> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Rick, What part of the country are you in? >> Best Regards, >> David Colombo >> >> 804 College Ave >> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >> (707) 536-1424 >> www.SeaQuestor.com >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Congratulations, Rick. >> Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. >> Tim >> >> On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Rick, >> Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. >> Hank >> >> On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> I just finished my K-350! >> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >> hours into it. >> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >> I also started this project 21 years ago? >> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >> don't think I will share that with my wife! >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Thu Apr 24 12:32:11 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 06:32:11 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K-350 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for your cable input. I'll double check but not sure that method will work due to a couple of 90 degree turns that they would have to make?? Rick On Thu, Apr 24, 2025 at 12:57?AM James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick. > Bit of a late reply, but I used a car bonnet (you might call it the > "hood") pull cable, connected to both drop weight handles. One pull of the > cable releases both weights. It works surprisingly well for a simple > solutions. > > I managed to find a pic of it on my old website. > http://www.guernseysubmarine.com/Extended_files/Page23665.htm > > Regards > James > > > > On Wed, 23 Apr 2025 at 19:10, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> Rick, use marine push pull cables >> Hank >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 23, 2025, at 11:58?AM, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> I also attached a pull cord that goes through the plywood floor for the >> VBT hull shut off as it pulls straight up but the other three in the back >> dome go athwartships so I would have to attach pulleys somehow. >> >> Rick >> >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 4:25?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Hank, I have had that thought rolling around my mind as a >>> possible solution as well so I'm glad to hear that someone else has >>> implemented it effectively. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 23, 2025 at 10:02:20 AM EDT, hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Jon, >>> With a sound deadening wall in my new sub, reaching the shut off valves >>> could be a slow process. I drilled small holes in the end of the valve >>> levers and attached push pull cables. The cables are really intended to >>> shut the valve quickly. The cable end is located beside the pilot seat, >>> and there are 6 of them. Now I can close and open the valves remotly. >>> Hank >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 22, 2025 at 06:13:29 AM MDT, Jon Wallace via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I agree with you on the carrying capacity, I find there's barely enough >>> room for me to maneuver inside the K-600 alone. However Alec has proven >>> that you can fit two people into a K250, and when I was in Shackleton it >>> was a comfortable ride. I am still struggling with the emergency drop >>> weight configuration because it is currently behind me and with another >>> person on-board I don't think I'll be able to reach it, never mind the >>> scuttle valve on the rear head. For that reason, until I can come up with >>> a better configuration, Aquatic is likely going to be a one-man vessel. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 11:44:56 PM EDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> It?s kind of funny but no one wants to go on the first trip but plenty >>> on the second! >>> I want to make a number of dives on my own to check out all the systems >>> and get her dialed in. >>> I am concerned that there is not enough room below my seat for someone >>> to lay safely and comfortably though?? >>> Planning to probably take her down to at least 100? and test everything >>> out before the 600? test as if there are any tiny weepers, I?ll want to >>> know about it before she gets too heavy to recover. >>> First splash for trimming will probably be in a week or so ? >>> >>> Rick >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 21, 2025, at 8:52?AM, Rick Patton wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Thanks all! been a 20 year endeavor. >>> I live on the Big Island David. >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 8:29?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Rick, What part of the country are you in? >>> Best Regards, >>> David Colombo >>> >>> 804 College Ave >>> Santa Rosa, CA. 95404 >>> (707) 536-1424 >>> www.SeaQuestor.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 10:52?AM Tim Novak via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Congratulations, Rick. >>> Looking forward to hearing how the shake down cruise goes. >>> Tim >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 19, 2025 at 1:38?PM hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rick, >>> Fantastic, and I can only imagine the cost to build the same sub today. >>> Hank >>> >>> On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 04:15:06 PM MDT, Rick Patton via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> I just finished my K-350! >>> I kept pretty accurate time for my total construction and I have 1,522 >>> hours into it. >>> I also have 44 hours into the trailer. >>> I also started this project 21 years ago? >>> Next I add up all my expenses and will let you know what they are. I >>> don't think I will share that with my wife! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 27 20:52:17 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 14:52:17 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon, How's your build coming along? Sounds like quite a project. Isn't the K-600 you are rebuilding the only one that Kitteridge built? If not, who had it before you and how deep has it gone? On another note, I looked up the polishing compound that you recommended Novus, and it comes in a single, double or triple bottle offer. Do you remember which one you used? Rick On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 7:55?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I used NOVUS with polishing pads on an orbital sander. > > > > On Friday, April 18, 2025 at 01:23:27 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Thanks Jon, what type of product did you use for the polishing? > > > Rick > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 10:15?AM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Rick, I had the same issue. I soaked them in a bucket of water for 2-3 > days then scraped as much off with my fingernails as possible. I soaked > the remaining with goo-gone. It took a long time and many applications but > I was eventually able to remove it. I also polished mine afterwards to get > out any scratches that might have been there from the removal process. > > > > On Thursday, April 17, 2025 at 01:38:36 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I wanted to get some feedback regarding what was recommended to use for > removing traces of mastic on my viewports after removing the protective > material that was put on by the manufactures of the acrylic viewports when > I bought them many years ago. I called them the other day and they > reached out to who actually made them and they said to use vinegar or > kerosene. I tried the vinegar and it did nothing so I thought I'd check > with the group before I tried the kerosene as I don't want to take any > chances of marring the surfaces. > Greg Cottrell put on the protective material so if you are out there greg > and have any advice, let me know. > > Rick > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 5:43?PM Alan James via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Cliff, there is always my Chinese brushless trolling motors if you get > desperate. But who knows what sort of tariff you would be paying on them. > It may make them prohibitive. > I will be doing a bit of live testing with them when the weather here > settles down. Cheers. > > Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 at 2:12 pm, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Sun Apr 27 21:44:57 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 01:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <871649924.2445419.1745804697788@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Rick, I recommend purchasing the three bottle kit and using them in sequence.? One is for heavy scratches, one is for light scratches, and the third is just a protective coating.? I know Hank did some polishing but can't recall if he used Novus or something else.?? My rebuild is on track but I can't decide if I'm 97, 98, or 99% done...however it's somewhere in that range.? Kittredge had a contract to build five K-600 subs but he and the buyer did not see eye-to-eye during fabrication of the first one and after threatening each other repeatedly with lawsuits eventually agreed to cut the contract to deliver the ONE vessel under construction and never talk to each other again.? The sales price was $101,000 in 1979.? I have no dive logs or records available to me however Kittredge had the vessel tested to 385 psi by the US Navy in Annapolis before delivering it to the buyer.? I intend to take a careful and calculated approach to determining it's current capability since too many years have passed to make any assumptions. Jon On Sunday, April 27, 2025 at 08:54:14 PM EDT, Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon, How's your build coming along? Sounds like quite a project. Isn't the K-600 you are rebuilding the only one that Kitteridge built? If not, who had it before you and how deep has it gone?On another note, I looked up the polishing compound that you recommended?Novus, and it comes in a single, double or triple bottle offer. Do you remember which one you used? Rick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 09:47:13 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 13:47:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 11:49:50 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 15:49:50 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Hey folks, > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 12:16:38 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 16:16:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 13:13:08 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 11:13:08 -0600 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 13:34:29 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Rick Patton via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 07:34:29 -1000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101's lower units In-Reply-To: <871649924.2445419.1745804697788@mail.yahoo.com> References: <416698582.1678846.1744658964359@mail.yahoo.com> <1633229089.1760501.1744669419745@mail.yahoo.com> <1424921688.2741053.1744858271403@mail.yahoo.com> <1966945457.3007956.1744917229883@mail.yahoo.com> <842086246.3331624.1744998846432@mail.yahoo.com> <871649924.2445419.1745804697788@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Jon, Wow that sub comes with quite a story! I'll buy the three bottle kit, Thanks Rick On Sun, Apr 27, 2025 at 6:04?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi Rick, > > I recommend purchasing the three bottle kit and using them in sequence. > One is for heavy scratches, one is for light scratches, and the third is > just a protective coating. I know Hank did some polishing but can't recall > if he used Novus or something else. > > My rebuild is on track but I can't decide if I'm 97, 98, or 99% > done...however it's somewhere in that range. Kittredge had a contract to > build five K-600 subs but he and the buyer did not see eye-to-eye during > fabrication of the first one and after threatening each other repeatedly > with lawsuits eventually agreed to cut the contract to deliver the ONE > vessel under construction and never talk to each other again. The sales > price was $101,000 in 1979. I have no dive logs or records available to me > however Kittredge had the vessel tested to 385 psi by the US Navy in > Annapolis before delivering it to the buyer. I intend to take a careful > and calculated approach to determining it's current capability since too > many years have passed to make any assumptions. > > Jon > > > On Sunday, April 27, 2025 at 08:54:14 PM EDT, Rick Patton via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Jon, How's your build coming along? Sounds like quite a project. Isn't > the K-600 you are rebuilding the only one that Kitteridge built? If not, > who had it before you and how deep has it gone? > On another note, I looked up the polishing compound that you > recommended Novus, and it comes in a single, double or triple bottle offer. > Do you remember which one you used? > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 13:59:59 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 17:59:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. ?I have zero issues with this. ?I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 14:06:13 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:06:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1350679263.2736382.1745863573300@mail.yahoo.com> On the R300, the OTS SSB-2010 is mounted inside the boat with the transponder out.? I have had similar noise issues using Minn-Kota 36V PWM motor controllers.? The noise is greater with power being supplied by 24V bus, which is sourced from 36V main battery bank via a DC-DC converter. PWM is putting a lot of noise into the voltage supply to the OTS unit, which can be seen on an oscilloscope. When I went back to using the 6 AA batteries for the?SSB-2010, the noise was dramatically reduced in shop test but not eliminated. My tranponder does not have any acoustic dampening at its support. Might be time to think about doing what Hank and David are doing, which is mounting the?OTS SSB-2010 externally and only running the headset wiring through the hull. The issue for the R400 is the depth rating.? I am not sure what depth the?OTS SSB-2010 with its plastic housing can withstand.? For the R400, the plan is to test to 500 ft. Cliff On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:17:07 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 14:17:38 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:17:38 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Unless I misunderstand, Jon is using an STX-101, which is a surface unit, not a diver unit, so going external wouldn't be an option. My next step would probably be to scope the noise to characterize exactly what you're seeing. If it is high frequency content that is being pulled down to audible by the STX, it could be as simple a fix as adding an RF choke on the transducer cable. Sean Sent from Proton Mail Android -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> >> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >> >> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >> >> Jon >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Two things I would look at: >> >> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >> >> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >> >> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >> >> Hey folks, >> >> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. >> >> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). >> >> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. >> >> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 14:38:32 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:38:32 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> >> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >> >> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >> >> Jon >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Two things I would look at: >> >> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >> >> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >> >> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >> >> Hey folks, >> >> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. >> >> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). >> >> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. >> >> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 15:49:04 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 20:49:04 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon I had this exact thing with mine. I ran it initially with main power from the boat. But the noise\interference from other things (cant remember what) made it hopeless. I just did away with plugging it into the main power and used AA batteries in the unit. I also did the transducer the same as you. Once i switched to the internal standard AA batteries, i have no problems. Kind Regards James On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 at 14:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hey folks, > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > transducer is enough to override the noise. > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > headset wires through the hull instead. > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 16:02:35 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 20:02:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1545535521.2787631.1745870555089@mail.yahoo.com> You are correct, I am using the STX-101 inside the cabin.? The case was too bulky so I replaced it by building a custom case out of PVC trim board and then I affixed aluminum foil onto all internal sides of the box in an attempt to isolate it electrically from external noise. I just did some additional testing.? Removed the STX-101 and set it up outside the vessel about 18 inches from the rear motors using all the same connectors and a small motorcycle AGM battery, energized the minn-kota motors, and the unit did not pick up any noise whatsoever.? So mounting outside the vessel is by far the best solution in terms of reducing noise. Brought the STX-101 back into the sub without mounting it in it's allocated location and powered it with the AGM battery just to rule out any potential conflicts involving the LiFePO4 batteries.? The noise was back so it definitely sounds like EMI to me.? However, I did notice that on Channel #3 which is 31.25 khz USB (upper side band) the noise was significantly reduced to the point of not really being a bother at all. Sean I'm curious if you think tying the 36v ground to my 12v ground would improve anything?? Easy enough to try and give a test, just curious of your thoughts. In terms of depth, OTS seems to be all over the place on it.? I've seen 130 feet and 165 feet, but their website states 300 feet and the SSB-2010 manual states 500 feet.? Sounds like we need a pressure test, Cliff. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 02:19:23 PM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Unless I misunderstand, Jon is using an STX-101, which is a surface unit, not a diver unit, so going external wouldn't be an option. My next step would probably be to scope the noise to characterize exactly what you're seeing.? If it is high frequency content that is being pulled down to audible by the STX, it could be as simple a fix as adding an RF choke on the transducer cable. Sean Sent from Proton Mail Android -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. ?I have zero issues with this. ?I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 16:15:15 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 20:15:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <364920089.2818701.1745871315795@mail.yahoo.com> Hi James, Very interesting.? You've got the SP-100D2 Buddy Phone, correct??? Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 03:51:14 PM EDT, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hi Jon I had this exact thing with mine.? I ran it initially with main power from the boat.? But the noise\interference from other things (cant remember what) made it hopeless.? I just did away with plugging it into the main power and used AA batteries in the unit.?? I also did the transducer the same as you.?? Once i switched to the internal standard AA batteries, i have no problems. Kind Regards James On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 at 14:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Mon Apr 28 19:24:05 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 19:24:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding > the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. > That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for > no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both > designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech > descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as > you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of > ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. > > I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, > but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and > these have similar depth ratings. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper > depths? > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. > I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > Hank > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers > are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom > and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The > coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't > fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for > SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable > regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. > > No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but > now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible > tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of > course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. > The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. > > Jon > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Two things I would look at: > > 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the > transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? > > 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to > impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my > experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't > have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have > enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA > connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. > > Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced > electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the > transducer? > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey folks, > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > transducer is enough to override the noise. > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > headset wires through the hull instead. > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 00:53:18 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 21:53:18 -0700 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on > the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever > talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was > exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and > deep! > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding >> the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. >> That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for >> no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both >> designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech >> descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as >> you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of >> ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. >> >> I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, >> but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and >> these have similar depth ratings. >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper >> depths? >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. >> I just put fresh batteries in for each dive >> Hank >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >> >> ? >> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My >> controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from >> the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the >> controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) >> so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which >> is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing >> the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >> >> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but >> now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible >> tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of >> course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. >> The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >> >> Jon >> >> >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> >> Two things I would look at: >> >> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the >> transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >> >> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to >> impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my >> experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't >> have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have >> enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA >> connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >> >> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced >> electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the >> transducer? >> >> Sean >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Hey folks, >> >> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and >> annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried >> changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it >> didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range >> of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant >> improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting >> but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS >> transducer is enough to override the noise. >> >> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside >> the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a >> thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA >> connectors (soldered, not crimped). >> >> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this >> experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of >> tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced >> the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery >> isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make >> a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the >> headset wires through the hull instead. >> >> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 06:03:14 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 11:03:14 +0100 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <364920089.2818701.1745871315795@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1544741843.2614872.1745848033812@mail.yahoo.com> <364920089.2818701.1745871315795@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, thats the one I have. On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 at 21:15, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Hi James, > > Very interesting. You've got the SP-100D2 Buddy Phone, correct? > > Jon > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 03:51:14 PM EDT, James Frankland via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hi Jon > > I had this exact thing with mine. I ran it initially with main power from > the boat. But the noise\interference from other things (cant remember > what) made it hopeless. I just did away with plugging it into the main > power and used AA batteries in the unit. > > I also did the transducer the same as you. > > Once i switched to the internal standard AA batteries, i have no problems. > > Kind Regards > James > > On Mon, 28 Apr 2025 at 14:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Hey folks, > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > transducer is enough to override the noise. > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > headset wires through the hull instead. > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 11:01:07 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 15:01:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1206924077.3130586.1745938867672@mail.yahoo.com> Looking forward to seeing your results David.? I can't find a specification for the Minn Kota controller PWM frequency but suspect it is between 10-20khz like most other controllers.? I believe Cliff uses the Minn Kota controllers also and he said he had interference with them. I connected all my grounds together and it made no difference whatsoever, so I've at least confirmed my battery supplies are isolated. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 12:55:18 AM EDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 11:29:09 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (whitestar456@manx.net via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 15:29:09 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1206924077.3130586.1745938867672@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1206924077.3130586.1745938867672@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jon Graham Bayliss here i built Casper 2 she has been kept indoors for quite a few years now as i am to old and lost interest she is ready to go but have lost my will to carry on with her. She cost me ?10.000 to build including the trailer. How would you advise me to go about selling her . Can you help me please i would love to see her finished but i dont have the time or the inclination to see it to the end, Regards Graham Bayliss Isle of man. ________________________________ From: Personal_Submersibles on behalf of Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles Sent: 29 April 2025 4:01 PM To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise Looking forward to seeing your results David. I can't find a specification for the Minn Kota controller PWM frequency but suspect it is between 10-20khz like most other controllers. I believe Cliff uses the Minn Kota controllers also and he said he had interference with them. I connected all my grounds together and it made no difference whatsoever, so I've at least confirmed my battery supplies are isolated. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 12:55:18 AM EDT, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive Hank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles > wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 12:02:05 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 12:02:05 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, Which type of cable are you using to connect the transducer to the OTS unit? Is it shielded, and if so, what do you have the shield tied to? Is it grounded to hull, and is your DC negative grounded to hull? On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 14:18 via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: OTS and motor controller noise > (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) > 2. Re: OTS and motor controller noise > (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:06:13 +0000 (UTC) > From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise > Message-ID: <1350679263.2736382.1745863573300 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On the R300, the OTS SSB-2010 is mounted inside the boat with the > transponder out.? I have had similar noise issues using Minn-Kota 36V PWM > motor controllers.? The noise is greater with power being supplied by 24V > bus, which is sourced from 36V main battery bank via a DC-DC converter. PWM > is putting a lot of noise into the voltage supply to the OTS unit, which > can be seen on an oscilloscope. > When I went back to using the 6 AA batteries for the?SSB-2010, the noise > was dramatically reduced in shop test but not eliminated. My tranponder > does not have any acoustic dampening at its support. > Might be time to think about doing what Hank and David are doing, which is > mounting the?OTS SSB-2010 externally and only running the headset wiring > through the hull. > The issue for the R400 is the depth rating.? I am not sure what depth > the?OTS SSB-2010 with its plastic housing can withstand.? For the R400, the > plan is to test to 500 ft. > Cliff > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:17:07 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My > controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from > the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the > controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) > so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which > is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing > the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. > No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but > now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible > tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of > course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? > The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. > Jon > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Two things I would look at: > > 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the > transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? > > 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to > impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my > experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't > have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have > enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA > connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. > > Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced > electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the > transducer? > > Sean > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Hey folks, > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > transducer is enough to override the noise. > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > headset wires through the hull instead. > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > Jon > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20250428/c64f2ff9/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:17:38 +0000 > From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise > Message-ID: > > protonmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Unless I misunderstand, Jon is using an STX-101, which is a surface unit, > not a diver unit, so going external wouldn't be an option. > > My next step would probably be to scope the noise to characterize exactly > what you're seeing. If it is high frequency content that is being pulled > down to audible by the STX, it could be as simple a fix as adding an RF > choke on the transducer cable. > > Sean > > Sent from Proton Mail Android > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 10:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. > I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > > Hank > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > >> ? > >> > >> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My > controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from > the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the > controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) > so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which > is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing > the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. > >> > >> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source > but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an > audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone > changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is > always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >> Two things I would look at: > >> > >> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the > transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? > >> > >> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to > impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my > experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't > have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have > enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA > connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. > >> > >> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced > electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the > transducer? > >> > >> Sean > >> > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >> Hey folks, > >> > >> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and > annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried > changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it > didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range > of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but > at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer > is enough to override the noise. > >> > >> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver > inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > >> > >> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a > difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset > wires through the hull instead. > >> > >> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > >> > >> Jon > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list > >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20250428/f2cafa06/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 18 > ****************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 12:59:15 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 12:59:15 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different. I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy. 2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor. 3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best, Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit > inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull > penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of > 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed > over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms > like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on > the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 > battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I will > run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel > load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > >> I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect >> on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you >> ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was >> exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and >> deep! >> >> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via >> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding >>> the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. >>> That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for >>> no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both >>> designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech >>> descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as >>> you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of >>> ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. >>> >>> I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, >>> but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and >>> these have similar depth ratings. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper >>> depths? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with >>> this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive >>> Hank >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < >>> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My >>> controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from >>> the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the >>> controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) >>> so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which >>> is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing >>> the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >>> >>> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source >>> but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an >>> audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone >>> changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is >>> always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via >>> Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> >>> Two things I would look at: >>> >>> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the >>> transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >>> >>> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to >>> impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my >>> experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't >>> have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have >>> enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA >>> connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >>> >>> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced >>> electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the >>> transducer? >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>> Hey folks, >>> >>> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and >>> annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried >>> changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it >>> didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range >>> of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant >>> improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting >>> but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS >>> transducer is enough to override the noise. >>> >>> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside >>> the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a >>> thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA >>> connectors (soldered, not crimped). >>> >>> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this >>> experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of >>> tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced >>> the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery >>> isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make >>> a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the >>> headset wires through the hull instead. >>> >>> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 16:05:29 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:05:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1692131155.3276580.1745957129529@mail.yahoo.com> I, and most others I believe, are using the existing transducer cable which is regular shielded RG58.? I wouldn't recommend anything else since there are likely impedance matching reasons OTS selected RG58 to the transducer. OTS ties the shielding to the supply power ground (vss) via their circuit board.? I've traced this with an ohm meter. I have nothing grounded to the hull and I don't think it is a good choice for our vessels.?? Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 12:04:25 PM EDT, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, Which type of cable are you using to connect the transducer to the OTS unit? Is it shielded, and if so, what do you have the shield tied to? Is it grounded to hull, and is your DC negative grounded to hull? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 16:31:24 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:31:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 18 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <553887681.3286177.1745958684791@mail.yahoo.com> R300:Which type of cable are you using to connect the transducer to the OTS unit? ? ? ? ? ?OTS Transponder Cable passing through Subcon BH4F bulkhead hull penetration. See?http://www.psubs.org/design/comms/R300-comms.pdf?for how comms are wired for R300. ?Is it shielded, and if so, what do you have the shield tied to? ? ? ? ? Yes, it is shielded.? See drawing.?? ?Is it grounded to hull, and is your DC negative grounded to hull? ? ? ? ? ? No and no. Cliff On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 11:06:59 AM CDT, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: All, Which type of cable are you using to connect the transducer to the OTS unit? Is it shielded, and if so, what do you have the shield tied to? Is it grounded to hull, and is your DC negative grounded to hull? On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 14:18 via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles at psubs.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ? ? ? ? http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org You can reach the person managing the list at ? ? ? ? personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." Today's Topics: ? ?1. Re: OTS and motor controller noise ? ? ? (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) ? ?2. Re: OTS and motor controller noise ? ? ? (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:06:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? To: Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise Message-ID: <1350679263.2736382.1745863573300 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ?On the R300, the OTS SSB-2010 is mounted inside the boat with the transponder out.? I have had similar noise issues using Minn-Kota 36V PWM motor controllers.? The noise is greater with power being supplied by 24V bus, which is sourced from 36V main battery bank via a DC-DC converter. PWM is putting a lot of noise into the voltage supply to the OTS unit, which can be seen on an oscilloscope. When I went back to using the 6 AA batteries for the?SSB-2010, the noise was dramatically reduced in shop test but not eliminated. My tranponder does not have any acoustic dampening at its support. Might be time to think about doing what Hank and David are doing, which is mounting the?OTS SSB-2010 externally and only running the headset wiring through the hull. The issue for the R400 is the depth rating.? I am not sure what depth the?OTS SSB-2010 with its plastic housing can withstand.? For the R400, the plan is to test to 500 ft. Cliff ? ? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:17:07 AM CDT, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon ? ? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote:? Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ? _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2025 18:17:38 +0000 From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles" ? ? ? ? To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion ? ? ? ? Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise Message-ID: ? ? ? ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Unless I misunderstand, Jon is using an STX-101, which is a surface unit, not a diver unit, so going external wouldn't be an option. My next step would probably be to scope the noise to characterize exactly what you're seeing. If it is high frequency content that is being pulled down to audible by the STX, it could be as simple a fix as adding an RF choke on the transducer cable. Sean Sent from Proton Mail Android -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:13, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles? wrote: > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> ? >> >> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >> >> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >> >> Jon >> >> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >> Two things I would look at: >> >> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >> >> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >> >> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? >> >> Sean >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> >> >> Hey folks, >> >> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. >> >> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). >> >> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. >> >> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >> >> Jon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles ------------------------------ End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 18 ****************************************************** _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 16:38:21 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:38:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1714267079.3291936.1745959101851@mail.yahoo.com> Good test Alec.? Can you test building a Faraday cage around the MK motor controllers i.e., wrap box that has four MK motor controllers in aluminum foil?? I wonder if this would mitigate the noise problem. On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 11:59:56 AM CDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different.? I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy.2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using?was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor.3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 16:46:23 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:46:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, can you also test channel 3.? I'm literally getting no interference on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band.? Using this channel would be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects all channels. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different.? I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy.2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using?was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor.3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 17:01:42 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 21:01:42 +0000 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8hKFa2_sH0M7SbnNaomr8ChOg_UbHSuMpNdjtGNjYIQzunS7w-MB52rkj_QIQcm8GhQglYhSHBnbT-6M0RWEiaisKICBq6exbMne0ctkJ7o=@protonmail.com> You are correct that the SSB-2010 literature shows a 500 foot depth rating. Conversely, the specs on my Powercom 3000D units (the successor to the SSB-2010) show only 300 feet. Regarding cable shields, I would expect that best practice is to make all shielding runs electrically contiguous through all connectors and housings in the cabling chain, and then that continuous shield should be isolated electrically with the exception of a single tie down to chassis earth (the hull) at one end of the cable only. I wonder if your foil shielding around the motor controller should be tied down to chassis / hull potential? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-29 13:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > Alec, can you also test channel 3. I'm literally getting no interference on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band. Using this channel would be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects all channels. > > Jon > > On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different. > > I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: > > 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy. > 2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor. > 3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. > > So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > >> Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. >> >> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >> >>> I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>> >>>> I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. >>>> >>>> I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>> >>>>> SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. I just put fresh batteries in for each dive >>>>> Hank >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. >>>>>> >>>>>> No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jon >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Two things I would look at: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>> On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hey folks, >>>>>> >>>>>> My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). >>>>>> >>>>>> In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jon >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 20:29:49 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:29:49 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just finished another round of experimentation. This is fun. 1) Changing channels did absolutely nothing at all. All four were equally noisy. 2) Turning on squelch was the opposite, it was so effective it completely eliminated the noise. There was not even minimal white noise and I wondered if the comms box was still on. However, I do not expect it to work that well in the water. I know I've tried it on dives and it was an improvement, but not to this extent. My guess is that it's because with the props spinning in air, thruster currents are drastically lower. 3) Shielding with aluminum foil was super interesting. I could hear the attenuation go up and down just as I held a sheet of foil in my hand and moved it in and out of the space between one of the controllers and the comms box. D'you guys know what a Theremin is? Wrapping the OTS box in foil certainly did help attenuate the noise, but isn't a complete solution because of small gaps remaining, for instance for the cables. I'd say the noise reduction was probably 50-75%. Conclusion... I'll plan to both relocate the OTS box to the quietest area, and use squelch. Maybe get fancy by making an aluminum pocket into which I'll slide the SSB-2010, as a method of mounting it to the hull. Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 4:46?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Alec, can you also test channel 3. I'm literally getting no interference > on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band. Using this channel would > be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects > all channels. > > Jon > > > > On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current > owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and > the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the > same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell > batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a > penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in > case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different. > > I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, > and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: > > 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at > either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when > the signal is choppy. > 2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW > the cable I'm using was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to > OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is > not grounded but used as a second conductor. > 3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS > unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed > close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise > emanating from the controllers. > > So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far > from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that > match the location of your OTS unit? > > Best, > Alec > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit > inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull > penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of > 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed > over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms > like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on > the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 > battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I will > run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel > load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on > the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever > talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was > exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and > deep! > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding > the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. > That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for > no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both > designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech > descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as > you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of > ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. > > I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, > but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and > these have similar depth ratings. > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper > depths? > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. > I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > Hank > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > ? > Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My controllers > are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom > and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The > coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't > fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for > SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable > regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. > > No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but > now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible > tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of > course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. > The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. > > Jon > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > Two things I would look at: > > 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the > transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? > > 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to > impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my > experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't > have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have > enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA > connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. > > Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced > electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the > transducer? > > Sean > > > -------- Original Message -------- > On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > Hey folks, > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't. > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > transducer is enough to override the noise. > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to make > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > headset wires through the hull instead. > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 20:41:43 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:41:43 -0400 Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I suspect there is a problem with the shield of the transducer cable "floating" with respect to the hull. On Tue, Apr 29, 2025, 20:30 via Personal_Submersibles < personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to > personal_submersibles at psubs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: OTS and motor controller noise > (Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2025 20:29:49 -0400 > From: Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles > > To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise > Message-ID: > GyPXCpfbQqyGWuA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Just finished another round of experimentation. This is fun. > > 1) Changing channels did absolutely nothing at all. All four were > equally noisy. > 2) Turning on squelch was the opposite, it was so effective it completely > eliminated the noise. There was not even minimal white noise and I wondered > if the comms box was still on. However, I do not expect it to work that > well in the water. I know I've tried it on dives and it was an improvement, > but not to this extent. My guess is that it's because with the props > spinning in air, thruster currents are drastically lower. > 3) Shielding with aluminum foil was super interesting. I could hear the > attenuation go up and down just as I held a sheet of foil in my hand and > moved it in and out of the space between one of the controllers and the > comms box. D'you guys know what a Theremin is? Wrapping the OTS box in foil > certainly did help attenuate the noise, but isn't a complete solution > because of small gaps remaining, for instance for the cables. I'd say the > noise reduction was probably 50-75%. > > Conclusion... I'll plan to both relocate the OTS box to the quietest area, > and use squelch. Maybe get fancy by making an aluminum pocket into which > I'll slide the SSB-2010, as a method of mounting it to the hull. > > Alec > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 4:46?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > Alec, can you also test channel 3. I'm literally getting no interference > > on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band. Using this channel would > > be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that > protects > > all channels. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her > current > > owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and > > the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have > the > > same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell > > batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through > a > > penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in > > case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different. > > > > I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, > > and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the > conclusions: > > > > 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are > at > > either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when > > the signal is choppy. > > 2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW > > the cable I'm using was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to > > OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is > > not grounded but used as a second conductor. > > 3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS > > unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed > > close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise > > emanating from the controllers. > > > > So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as > far > > from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does > that > > match the location of your OTS unit? > > > > Best, > > Alec > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles > < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver > unit > > inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull > > penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair > of > > 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed > > over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new > comms > > like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on > > the 36v lipo4 battery pack. The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 > > battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit. I > will > > run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel > > load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect > on > > the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever > > talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was > > exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky > and > > deep! > > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding > > the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation. > > That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for > > no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both > > designed and rated accordingly. These units have no helium speech > > descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers > as > > you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of > > ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. > > > > I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, > > but you would void any warranty. I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and > > these have similar depth ratings. > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS. Has anyone tested one to deeper > > depths? > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull. I have zero issues with this. > > I just put fresh batteries in for each dive > > Hank > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles < > > personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote: > > > > ? > > Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin. My > controllers > > are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the > bottom > > and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers. The > > coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't > > fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted > for > > SMA. I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable > > regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. > > > > No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but > > now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible > > tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off. The tone changes of > > course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there. > > The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. > > > > Jon > > > > > > > > On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via > > Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > > > Two things I would look at: > > > > 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the > > transducer cable. Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? > > > > 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to > > impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my > > experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't > > have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have > > enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the > SMA > > connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. > > > > Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced > > electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the > > transducer? > > > > Sean > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: > > > > Hey folks, > > > > My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and > annoying > > electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers. I tried changing > > channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it > didn't. > > I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of > 10khz > > and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant > > improvement. The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting > > but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS > > transducer is enough to override the noise. > > > > My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside > > the hull which required cutting the cable. I potted the cable in a > > thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA > > connectors (soldered, not crimped). > > > > In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this > > experience. Some others have found that using local batteries instead of > > tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly > reduced > > the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery > > isolated from the motor batteries. Another choice that has seemed to > make > > a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the > > headset wires through the hull instead. > > > > Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > _______________________________________________ > > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20250429/3797b167/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Personal_Submersibles mailing list > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org > http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 136, Issue 29 > ****************************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 21:02:13 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 01:02:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1068508737.3379385.1745974933686@mail.yahoo.com> That is very interesting.? I am now thinking that I will encapsulate each of my four MK 36V motor controllers in? Mission Darkness Titan RF Faraday Fabric and Faraday tape.? See https://www.amazon.com/Shielding-Bluetooth-MILITARY-SHIELDING-CONDUCTIVE/dp/B01M294MGK/ref=sr_1_6?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.27eu6Kxck9h2xCtDrVbXX0ewDecKMp9zVm8fqC3M0swwGzq2QnqONhHEpyUUDv_13ROLGjdOZpktZWlGYkqXOIuZfld26zmKnxC-WnIUctHgdNXzA_6Y2bSzZzS1OuT-rtX1pjQ354eKHTo94LzLgB5Dr3IekrvHm6yl7Yv20fy4t-yp4NzW4QOr1wIT_ElyULRjJOrEcwZK6lyXaxwjrWgPnz-LGsXGH7sJUz_IbtUXmZywi4GzUVTrTC1HaT9bKnZP53_4tVXFoHWvhISeEcoPcskCE8A8_7yIo68rIcc.vU2Dm2GpY3ZAhW93UjCVrCRWtILGRuUVVcM2QVkRaho&dib_tag=se&hvadid=693714478249&hvdev=c&hvexpln=67&hvlocphy=9027968&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=11451469775675113319--&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11451469775675113319&hvtargid=kwd-519212487517&hydadcr=979_1015116260&keywords=titanrf%2Bfaraday%2Bfabric&mcid=ba2e24fee7e73cc3be4240f46e968ac7&qid=1745968343&sr=8-6&th=1 On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 07:30:49 PM CDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just finished another round of experimentation. This is fun. 1) Changing channels did absolutely nothing at all. All four were equally?noisy.2) Turning on squelch was the opposite, it was so effective it completely eliminated the noise. There was not even minimal white noise and I wondered if the comms box was still on. However, I do not expect it to work that well in the water. I know I've tried it on dives and it was?an improvement, but not to this extent. My guess is that it's because with the props spinning in air, thruster currents are drastically lower.3) Shielding with aluminum foil was super interesting. I could hear the attenuation go up and down just as I held a sheet of foil in my hand and moved it in and out of the space between one of the controllers and the comms box. D'you guys know what a Theremin is? Wrapping the OTS box in foil certainly did help attenuate the noise, but isn't a complete solution because of small gaps remaining, for instance for the cables. I'd say the noise reduction was probably 50-75%. Conclusion... I'll plan to both relocate the OTS box to the quietest area, and use squelch. Maybe get fancy by making an aluminum pocket into which I'll slide the SSB-2010, as a method of mounting it to the hull.? Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 4:46?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, can you also test channel 3.? I'm literally getting no interference on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band.? Using this channel would be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects all channels. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different.? I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy.2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using?was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor.3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 21:30:39 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 01:30:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1018723194.3383536.1745976639882@mail.yahoo.com> Alec, I was able to subdue the interference with squelch as well, however using that much squelch will also attenuate comms and reduce the effective range of the unit. I'm surprised that your test of channel 3 was not as I observe with mine, however it could be something specific with the STX-101. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 08:31:52 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just finished another round of experimentation. This is fun. 1) Changing channels did absolutely nothing at all. All four were equally?noisy.2) Turning on squelch was the opposite, it was so effective it completely eliminated the noise. There was not even minimal white noise and I wondered if the comms box was still on. However, I do not expect it to work that well in the water. I know I've tried it on dives and it was?an improvement, but not to this extent. My guess is that it's because with the props spinning in air, thruster currents are drastically lower.3) Shielding with aluminum foil was super interesting. I could hear the attenuation go up and down just as I held a sheet of foil in my hand and moved it in and out of the space between one of the controllers and the comms box. D'you guys know what a Theremin is? Wrapping the OTS box in foil certainly did help attenuate the noise, but isn't a complete solution because of small gaps remaining, for instance for the cables. I'd say the noise reduction was probably 50-75%. Conclusion... I'll plan to both relocate the OTS box to the quietest area, and use squelch. Maybe get fancy by making an aluminum pocket into which I'll slide the SSB-2010, as a method of mounting it to the hull.? Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 4:46?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, can you also test channel 3.? I'm literally getting no interference on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band.? Using this channel would be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects all channels. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different.? I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy.2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using?was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor.3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Tue Apr 29 21:39:18 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 01:39:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <90593753.3387481.1745977158206@mail.yahoo.com> Lol, just saw your comment about the Theremin.? So maybe we can give a rendition of the 1812 Overture from 100 feet??? ?:)? :) Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 08:31:52 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Just finished another round of experimentation. This is fun. 1) Changing channels did absolutely nothing at all. All four were equally?noisy.2) Turning on squelch was the opposite, it was so effective it completely eliminated the noise. There was not even minimal white noise and I wondered if the comms box was still on. However, I do not expect it to work that well in the water. I know I've tried it on dives and it was?an improvement, but not to this extent. My guess is that it's because with the props spinning in air, thruster currents are drastically lower.3) Shielding with aluminum foil was super interesting. I could hear the attenuation go up and down just as I held a sheet of foil in my hand and moved it in and out of the space between one of the controllers and the comms box. D'you guys know what a Theremin is? Wrapping the OTS box in foil certainly did help attenuate the noise, but isn't a complete solution because of small gaps remaining, for instance for the cables. I'd say the noise reduction was probably 50-75%. Conclusion... I'll plan to both relocate the OTS box to the quietest area, and use squelch. Maybe get fancy by making an aluminum pocket into which I'll slide the SSB-2010, as a method of mounting it to the hull.? Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 4:46?PM Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Alec, can you also test channel 3.? I'm literally getting no interference on Channel 3 which is 31.25khz upper side band.? Using this channel would be a good work around until an electronic fix can be achieved that protects all channels. Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 01:01:03 PM EDT, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I happen to have my former sub Snoopy back in the shop because her current owner has engaged me to recommission her. The job is about 99% done, and the comms already installed, so I just conducted an experiment. I have the same setup as Dave; SSB-2010 inside the cabin running on its own dry cell batteries, connected to the transducer by a cable that is potted through a penetrator without cutting. I had left that cable longer than needed, in case the owner decided he wanted the OTS unit somewhere different.? I turned on the thrusters and started moving the OTS all around inside, and also routing the cable along different paths. Here are the conclusions: 1) As one would expect, there is much less noise when the thrusters are at either zero throttle or full throttle. All the noise is in between, when the signal is choppy.2) The noise is completely insensitive to the position of the cable. BTW the cable I'm using?was the OEM cable on another comms system similar to OTS. It's a small diameter shielded single conductor, where the shield is not grounded but used as a second conductor.3) Almost all of the variation in noise comes from proximity of the OTS unit to the speed controllers. There is also a bit of noise if its placed close to the battery cables, but it's nothing compared to the noise emanating from the controllers. So... the conclusion, at least in my case, is to place the OTS unit as far from the speed controllers and battery cables as possible. David, does that match the location of your OTS unit? Best,Alec On Tue, Apr 29, 2025 at 12:54?AM David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, youve got me thinking on this one. In the VAST, i have the diver unit inside the sub, a continuous non cut cable potted to the thru hull penetrator. The diver unit has its own 6 AA battery pack. With the pair of 36v 101's, and wearing the headset, i have not had any issues with bleed over noise. I am planning on adding the topside unit inside as a new comms like you. My 101's are controlled by their own minnkota pwm which are on the 36v lipo4 battery pack.? The hotel loads are on their own 12v lipo4 battery pack, which is where i plan on connecting the topside unit.? I will run a test to see if i can find any signal interferance using the hotel load battery vs its own 2-6v battery pack, and let you know what i find. On Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:24?PM Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I've had mine to 250', but it was inside the sub. That said, the effect on the audio quality was remarkable. It was perfectly clear, but if you ever talked to your friends through a long garden hose as a kid, that was exactly how it sounded. Which was great, because it made it feel spooky and deep! On Mon, Apr 28, 2025 at 4:35?PM Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I have had a SSB-2010 a bit deeper than 130 as a diver without flooding the housing, but I don't know how deep it will go without compensation.? That limit is the standard recreational diving depth limit for no-mandatory-decompression-stop diving, and it is likely that it was both designed and rated accordingly.?? These units have no helium speech descramblers, so they are of limited utility for ambient pressure divers as you go deeper. The donald duck voice on top of the limited bandwidth of ultrasonic comms at all makes intelligibility a challenge. I had the unit to ~165 fsw, and I suspect that you could push it deeper, but you would void any warranty.? I'm using PowerCom 3000D units now, and these have similar depth ratings. Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 10:59, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: SB-2010 is rated to 130 feet by OTS.? Has anyone tested one to deeper depths? On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 01:15:01 PM EDT, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Jon, put the whole unit outside the hull.? I have zero issues with this.? I just put fresh batteries in for each diveHank Sent from my iPhone On Apr 28, 2025, at 10:16?AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: ? Not a lot of room to work with of course inside the cabin.? My controllers are mounted up near the top of the hull, the coax comes in from the bottom and is probably only about 18 inches laterally from the controllers.? The coax cable thru-hull is only 5/8 inch diameter (15.8 mm) so PL259's won't fit through it to allow me removal for maintenance which is why I opted for SMA.? I suppose I could try it since I won't be removing the cable regularly but it's definitely going to be a PIA change. No I'm not sure whether the noise is electrical or acoustic in source but now that you've asked I can tell you that the controllers make an audible tone when the PWM is active, even with the OTS off.? The tone changes of course depending upon the PWM frequency I select, but it is always there.? The same tone comes out the OTS, but amplified. Jon On Monday, April 28, 2025 at 11:51:58 AM EDT, Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Two things I would look at: 1) Relative location and shielding between the motor controller and the transducer cable.? Is additional shielding (conduit?) possible? 2) I have encountered problems in the past with noise on coax due to impedance mismatch / partial signal reflection at any connectors. In my experience, this is solved by moving from RG58 up to RG8, but you don't have that option because the transducer is a potted assembly. If you have enough cable tail available to experiment, I wonder about swapping the SMA connectors for PL259 to see if that makes a difference. Are you certain that the noise you are hearing is being introduced electrically, and not acoustically in the ultrasonic range of the transducer? Sean -------- Original Message -------- On 2025-04-28 06:47, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles wrote: Hey folks, My OTS STX-101 receiver is picking up some fairly significant and annoying electronic noise from my Roboteq PWM motor controllers.? I tried changing channels on the OTS hoping a different frequency might help but it didn't.? I also tried changing the controller PWM frequency between a range of 10khz and 24khz but nothing between those frequencies made a significant improvement.? The noise is enough to override the normal squelch setting but at the same time a strong communication signal through the OTS transducer is enough to override the noise. My configuration has the transducer outside the hull and receiver inside the hull which required cutting the cable.? I potted the cable in a thru-hull and reconnected the cable inside the cabin with RG-58 SMA connectors (soldered, not crimped). In talking with a couple other folks it seems I am not alone in this experience.? Some others have found that using local batteries instead of tying into the same batteries used by the motors has significantly reduced the noise, however in my case I am already using a separate battery isolated from the motor batteries.? Another choice that has seemed to make a difference is mounting an SB-1001 outside the hull and running the headset wires through the hull instead. Anyone else have similar experiences with OTS? Jon _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 30 02:30:29 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 06:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <90593753.3387481.1745977158206@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> <90593753.3387481.1745977158206@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1968140714.3441658.1745994629373@mail.yahoo.com> I hear ya River, but given?that internal AA batteries considerably attenuate the interference and in some cases eliminates it, I don't think the RG58 cable plays any role with the noise.? The only discernable hardware difference between an OTS powered by internal AA batteries and an external battery is the length of wire connecting the battery to the OTS circuitry.? For this reason?I believe?motor controller EMI is inducted into the power cables and is close enough to the resonance of the transducer that it is spilling into the OTS circuitry from the incoming power rails.? The relatively short wires connecting internal AA batteries to the OTS unit (4 inches?) induce much less EMI than the long wires of an external battery (8 feet or so in my case) which again, would explain why the noise is considerably reduced or ceases by merely switching to internally located AA batteries. For those of us that want to keep using an external battery, an alternative to a faraday cage surrounding the motor controller might be using armored battery cables or running the cable through EMT conduit to help limit interference. Kittredge's human powered sub is looking better and better, guys.? Anybody got a ten-speed and 24 inch prop for sale? Jon On Tuesday, April 29, 2025 at 08:43:24 PM EDT, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles wrote: I suspect there is a problem with the shield of the transducer cable "floating" with respect to the hull. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 30 03:23:50 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:23:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1068508737.3379385.1745974933686@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> <1068508737.3379385.1745974933686@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1157993443.3448197.1745997830357@mail.yahoo.com> Looks great, Cliff.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 1:04 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From personal_submersibles at psubs.org Wed Apr 30 03:43:06 2025 From: personal_submersibles at psubs.org (Alan James via Personal_Submersibles) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2025 07:43:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OTS and motor controller noise In-Reply-To: <1068508737.3379385.1745974933686@mail.yahoo.com> References: <776295123.2677993.1745856998926@mail.yahoo.com> <0F27FF3D-8274-4669-AB02-7D6AEE2F992B@yahoo.ca> <437686673.2728200.1745863199285@mail.yahoo.com> <8yHXkUBz7NWnskcymYb_3H_SCoy7at1QCjYXCclQ-0x2voN9BJsQoBlrZMgombU6K-vrh5m7_NzFGyhlmlb7aktNtmwsxCdg2t61dK5D_v0=@protonmail.com> <1478069852.3301778.1745959583330@mail.yahoo.com> <1068508737.3379385.1745974933686@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1221880498.3451853.1745998986968@mail.yahoo.com> You could make clothing out of that Faraday fabric and make a million selling it to our life cal Green community.Alan Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 at 1:04 pm, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles wrote: _______________________________________________ Personal_Submersibles mailing list Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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