Hello All ?
I am very new to this mailing list, having only contributed in one email. I want everyone to know that I have learned a tremendous amount from all of you, even when you disagree. The desire you each have shown to finding am appropriate solution to your design problems is commendable and inspiring.
It seems to me, as a newbie, that in any endeavor such as this there is bound to be both serious disagreement and occasional emotion. We all work hard and are therefore convinced of our ?rightness? in the matter. To do verbal battle over issues is inevitable. In this current discussion there have been many important points shared on both sides of the issue. However, it seems that turning things personal is not. The fact that someone disagrees with my position does not mean I am wrong ? nor does it mean that they are flawed or bad. To attack a position as being indefensible is appropriate; to attack a person for being wrong is not.
I value (and continue to value) the ongoing discussions in this forum. It seems to me it would be more constructive for all of us if we were to value everyone?s position, even if we strongly
disagree, and not take a course of personal assault.
Skeet Stribling
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:21 AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Product liability?
There you have it, gents. The official
opinion of the two co-founders of the Psubs website: we should spend many years and thousands of dollars designing and building submarines, and then destroy them out of fear that we might get sued.
Personally, I think Ray pulled a boner, and Jon is trying to run damage control. 8^) But we have to believe they mean what they say.
Most things in life involve risk; and any involvement with submersibles most certainly does. But that's no reason to be pessimistic.
Following Jon's logic, there's just about nothing we can do that doesn't run some risk of being sued, so we shouldn't do anything. But who lives life that way?
Just look at all those first graders enjoying Snoopy. That's a wonderful thing, but it wouldn't have happened if Dale&nbs! p;Heinzig had been so paranoid that he
destroyed his home-built submarine instead of selling it to Alec Smythe.
I know other people who have owned and sold submersibles, too. None of them have been sued. In fact, I have never heard of anyone being sued over a home-built submarine.
And interestingly enough, Jon recently spoke out in defense of Bill Gifford when he was trying to sell his Needlefish on Ebay, and people in this group were saying it wasn't a good idea to buy it.
To me, telling us to destroy our subs rather than sell them because we might get sued, makes about as much sense as telling us to kill our children rather than letting them go out on their own, because they might do something we'll be liable for.
However, we must take Jon or Ray at their word. So if they ever do build submarines, we! know they will destroy their
creations rather than passing them on. And perhaps, in their case, that might be a good idea. 8^)
But in any event, if anyone in this group is going to destroy a submarine before selling it, please let me know when and where so I can take pictures. I wouldn't want to miss that! 8^)
Cheers!
Jim
Jon Wallace <jonw@whoweb.com> wrote:
In the US, you can, and people do,! file suit for anything regardless of common law, contracts, or common
sense. Pre-nuptual agreements can be challenged. Contractual agreements can be challenged. Last will and testaments can be challenged. We've got state governments suing tobacoo companies for smoke related illnesses even though every package carries a mandatory warning that smoking IS dangerous to your health. We've got people who sue McDonalds because they carelessly spill coffee on themselves and file claim that the coffee was too hot. Anna Nicole had a written will from her former 80(something) year old hubby that was challenged by other blood relatives.
I think Ray's point was well taken for those of us in the US. You should seriously consider any ramifications that might occur if you sell or even give away your sub, and it fails to perform flawlessly. It's not because the person you sell it to, or their family, has a valid claim against you that will stand up in court. It's the fact that it will cost you a lot of money to respond to that challenge and have a court (or jury) determine that the claim was invalid. Ray appears unwilling to put himself in a position that would even require him to respond to such a challenge. I'm there as well. But others may be willing to take that risk.
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