-----Original
Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jim Pesanka
Sent: Friday, 17
February 2006
8:00
PM
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sean,
radar
The Euronaut is
magnificent, but I wouldn't compare it to a home-built K-350.
I've read that Carsten
works for Lursen: a company which produces 300-foot ocean going
yachts. Looking at his website, it appears the Euronaut is being built
with the use of those facilities, and perhaps the support of sponsors whose
names appear on the hull.
Is it accurate to
say the Euronaut is "way out in front" of those who make
home-built submarines in their own garage? I don't think so. The
Euronaut is in a completely different league: along with
other submarines that are produced in commercial ship building
facilities. There really is no comparison.
"Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
wrote:
Yes,
I know Carsten. I saw most of them before, but you still way out in
front with your Euronaut.
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Standfuss"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sean, radar
> http://www.psubs.org/old_pic/Submanaut.html
>
> http://www.psubs.org/pic/spurdog.html
>
> http://www.psubs.org/psub_pic/SubMark.html
>
>
http://www.silenthunter.dk/link.asp?menu=Forum/forum_choice.htm&doc=http://www.silenthunter.dk/article/UC3/1/UC3_1_1.htm
>
> http://www.euronaut.org/index.php.html
>
> ;-) Some Big Toys - Carsten
>
>
> Dan H. schrieb:
>>
>> Sean,
>>
>> I now understand you definition of a Personal Sub better. But
>> really.......
>> How many Euronauts are out there, and how many are likely to be out
there
>> in
>> the future?
>>
>> Carsten shouldn't be compared to the Wright Brothers because his
>> technology
>> already exists. But you have to admit, Carsten and his project is
right
>> up
>> there with Howard Hughes and his Spruce Goose. I am not, for one
second,
>> comparing the Euronaut with the Goose itself. I'm sure the Euronaut
will
>> see a active life and not sit in moth balls. What I am comparing is
the
>> size of the personal undertaking.
>>
>> If your dabbling in the P-sub world is only as a "design
exercise," you
>> may
>> have use for a radar "design." You can design as small or as
large a
>> boat
>> as you desire. If your using Auto Cad or something similar, you don't
>> even
>>! ; have additional paper costs in a large sub, six crew members or
even
>> more.
>>
>> In the real world, with real steel and real water, Carsten and his
>> project
>> it far and away an exception to the P-sub sized project. So here it
is.
>> I
>> stand corrected.
>>
>> In the real world of Personal built and owned subs, with the exception
of
>> the Euronaut, there is no need for radar on a personal submarine
because
>> they aren't far enough off the surface of the water to see farther
then
>> you
>> can by eye. The limited funds can be put to better use. And, you
>> SHOULD
>> always have surface craft support.
>>
>> Dan H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sean T. Stevenson"
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:33 AM>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
radar
>>
>> > Well Dan, I think it is necessary to point out that, while the
vast
>> > majority of
>> > us can not afford to undertake large scale projects like the
Euronaut,
>> > the
>> > defining factor that makes a sub a Psub is not its size, but rather
the
>> > fact
>> > that it is a non-commercial venture undertaken by a hobbyist.
That
>> > said,
>> > there
>> > certainly are boats out there which are designed to operate
untended,
>> > by
>> > virtue
>> > of having the capabilities normally relegated to surface support
-
>> > sufficient
>> > power, range, endurance, weather handling ability,
communications, crew
>> > comfort,
>> > collision regs compliance, etc. Unless I am mistaken, the
Euronaut
>> > falls
>&! gt; > into
>> > this category. (I'll leave it to Carsten to comment further).
Such a
>> > sub
>> > would
>> > likely be of sufficient size to accomodate outfitting it in
accordance
>> > with the
>> > equipment normally carried on surface vessels - and be capable of
>> > supporting a
>> > superstructure that can get a radar scanner high enough to be
useful.
>> > My
>> > design
>> > is a design exercise only, but it is of a larger vessel with
design
>> > criteria
>> > including sufficient freeboard to maintain a weather deck large
enough
>> > to
>> > accomodate an evacuation via stretcher lift (one person lying
down,
>> > tended
>> > by
>> > one or two more), and a weight buoyancy statement which will,
with all
>> > tanks
>> > empty, maintain stability with the entire ship's complement (6)
on the
>> > weather
>> > deck in a reasonable sea state - this is in case of fire or other
event
>> > which
>> > necessitates evacuating to the deck, in the surfaced condition.
The
>> > point
>> > being
>> > that for most smaller psubs, you're probably right, but there is
a
>> > place
>> > in the
>> > psub universe for vessels designed to cruise on the surface, and
in
>> > this
>> > context, radar is not a bad idea.
>> >
>> > -Sean
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting "Dan H." :
>> >
>> >> Is RADAR really necessary?
>> >>
>> >> First of all, it's not the smartest thing to operate a P size
sub
>> >> without
>> >> some surface sup! port out there with you. If you feel you
need radar,
>> >> that's
>> >> the place for it.
>> >>
>> >> Second, a P-sub is way to close to the surface of the water
for radar
>> >> to
>> >> see
>> >> very far. Unless there is fog, in which case it's highly
unlikely
>> >> you'd
>> >> be
>> >> out there anyway, just a few feet off the surface I can see
as far by
>> >> eye
>> >> as
>> >> a radar can.
>> >>
>> >> There are better places to spend the budgeted money of a
P-subber.
>> >>
>> >> Just my opinion,
>> >> Dan H.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
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