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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: DC Motors
Rick Jay and Carsten
This link will take you to what the UC3 boys are doing.
http://www.silenthunter.dk/link.asp?menu=Forum/forum_choice.htm&doc=http
://www.silenthunter.dk/article/UC3/1/UC3_1_1.htm
Peter had a drawing and description of their solution. Can any of you
fill in the gaps?
Steve P
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of rick miller
Sent: Wednesday, 1 March 2006 7:00 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: DC Motors
Stephen
a standard 50 HP freq. drive setup for 460 ac. will run on 620 dc at
about 87% eff. yes that is 52 12 volt batteries. it might make sense to
go
to a 240 volt system requiring only 26 batteries. and 600 volt standard
insulation and arc gaps. this would be standard industrial 480 volt
switch
gear. At 240 ac output 310 dc input you are looking at a 200 amp load at
full power. a new freq drive at set up for remote monitoring and
control.
here is a forty that is on ebay now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ALLEN-BRADLEY-1334-JJB-S2-AC-MOTOR-DRIVE-40HP-ADJ-FR
EQ_W0QQitemZ7539191916QQcategoryZ42894QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI
tem
recharging from a standard genset unit. since you will be charging
batteries and running the vessel you will probably want a 100 kw genset.
the nice thing about this is that you can do multiple taps for your
different voltgae requirment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Standfuss" <Merlinsub@t-online.de>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: DC Motors
> Hi Jay, goor idear but I am sorry, I have not the space for a 40kw
AC-DC
> MG setup. Also the efficency is with 0,9*0,9 = 0,81 not very hig.
> Produce at input 40 kwh just 32,4 kw power and 7,6 kw of heat..
>
> best regards Carsten - but is my second option if the black box
> Dc400v-Dc600v-Ac400V 0,95% box development fails..
>
> Jay K. Jeffries schrieb:
>>
>> Carsten,
>> You might consider a motor-generator (MG) setup...a linked combo of a
DC
>> unit that can operate as a motor or generator and a AC unit that can
>> operate
>> as a motor or generator. These were used on older diesel boats to
>> generate
>> the high voltage and or frequency required to operate some
electronics.
>> On
>> present day nuclear subs, the MG resides between the steam turbine
>> generators (SSTG) and the batteries. When charging the batteries,
the AC
>> unit is a motor and the DC unit the generator. When drawing power
from
>> the
>> batteries, the DC unit is the motor and the AC unit the generator.
Under
>> normal ship's electrical load with the SSTG on line, the MG set would
be
>> slowly discharging the batteries to keep them in condition. On a
loss of
>> SSTG power, the MG sets convert the DC power to AC. The system was
>> aligned
>> in a port & starboard cross connected system for redundancy. I'll
try to
>> lay out an ASCII schematic; the "X" indicate isolation switches for
>> spitting
>> systems or isolating faulty components/wiring:
>>
>> (DC load side) (AC load side)
>> _____ MG ____X______ SSTG
>> | |
>> X |
>> | |
>> BATTERIES X (normally open)
>> | |
>> X |
>> |_____ MG ____X___|__ SSTG
>>
>> Your boat could be wired in a similar manner where the diesel
generator
>> is
>> substituted for the SSTG. Your main motor(s) could then utilize the
>> efficiency of using high voltage and lower amperage units.
>> Respectfully,
>> Jay K. Jeffries
>>
>> Hi Stephen I got this way an run in trouble..
>> On euronaut I build a 400 V 40 kw DC Motor in - and use them as motor
>> underwater and generator on the surface - direct to the 400 V DC
>> batteries. That was the idear - But first highpower Dc technologies
is
>> old technologies and not so much parts are available anymore.
>>
>> The real trouble beginns when you realise that both bilge Pumps have
>> 400 V AC - both compressors have 400 V AC and other subsystem like
>> chargers etzc also.
>>
>> The converter to make from 400 V Dc just 400 volt AC ist not off the
>> shelf.. To make 400 AC you need at least a DC Voltage of 600 Volt..
>> So I need now a highpower DC-Dcconverter which make from 350-450 V DC
a
>> 600-700 V DC and than a DC-Ac converter to make 400 V 3-phase AC..
>>
>> Maybe it is easier to go with a AC system today.
>>
>> Make shure that you have all your subsystem on your list before you
>> decide which way your go. To rebuild all subsystem back from AC to DC
>> will be a nightmare.
>>
>> 48 V DC for a 75 kw output are very, very strong cables..
>>
>> 75000 watt / 48 V = 1563 ampere..
>>
>> best regards Carsten
>>
>>
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