Dan,
Understood. As we discussed once, your fine vertical control profile is fabulous, quite enviable. If I want to get away from snorkel depth, things get a bit dicier for me.
I know I will want to sit her on the bottom in shallow water from time to time, so I am working out the details to include that ability but, I will never have your control profile. Staying upright and reasonable rate contol are my primary concerns.
Joe
From: "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:39:14 -0500
Joe,What I was questioning is the need for a pressure relief in a closed ballast tank where the tank is built strong enough to withstand the system pressure. If your tank is strong enough to withstand the system pressure, then it won't blow.As was pointed out to me by Jay, it's still possible to get a regulator failure, and unless the ballast tank was built to SCUBA tank pressure, it could possibly be ruptured if that happened. Good point. My sub is a one atmosphere design.That is the one scary thing about an open ambient sub. Then deeper you go the more air it takes not to go any deeper. A situation that can be a runaway disaster.I don't know about an ambient sub, but in my one atmosphere, when diving, I keep my main ballast tanks totally full of water , vents opened, and my main ballast tank, adjusted to neutral buoyancy of the sub and all valves shut.Dan H.----- Original Message -----From: Joseph PerkelSent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:00 AMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 311 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************Hi Dan,
Besides the uncontrolled expansion scenario Jay mentioned, if I enclose the ambient tanks and wanted to go to the bottom to say 33', would I not be obligated to ride with the vents open? That would preclude the ability to add small shots of air, like a BC, because the vents are open.
So If I need to enclose the tanks in a better effort to tame the free surface area of my design, then I need a way to remain open to the outside. I think using the same flood ports failsafe open, might be an answer...I need to look at this a bit.
Joe
From: "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:15:56 -0500
Why would you need a relief valve in a ballast tank if it is built to withstand the pressure of the system?My Main ballast tanks are open bottom and don't need a relief valve and my main ballast tank is built far strong enough to withstand my 175 PSI system pressure. Unless your dealing with a compressor that may not shut off and run to high, where is the need for a relief valve?Dan H.----- Original Message -----From: Joseph PerkelSent: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:35 PMSubject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 311 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************Rick,
"you must have a relief valve in any tank"
Hmm, a bit of a detail there I could previously overlook with the open bottom.
I have to give this little problem of "free surfaces" and possible solutions with regard to my particular scheme some more thought. The jury (pun intended) is still out on this.
I went looking and found some valve sources. Your input and ideas for you own application have been most helpful and appreciated..thank you.
Joe
Joe
From: "rick miller" <rickm@pegasuscontrols.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:52:01 -0800
joeyou must have a relief valve in any tank that you build that you dont want to blow up. check that link below for a flood /relief valve that can be built scrap plate and all thread rod.rick m---http://www.frappr.com/?a=myfrappr&id=386116-- Original Message -----From: Joseph PerkelSent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:47 AMSubject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 311 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************Rick,
My mistake. I was not clear in communicating what is on my mind.
Here it is http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=269116&pid=1450694
As for cost, this submarine building stuff for any of us is equivelant to climbing Everest. The risks and opportunity costs are nearly the same, with the return on investment being exactly equal , simply....personal satisfaction.
Nothing stupid about it.
I appreciate the effort
Joe
From: "rick miller" <rickm@pegasuscontrols.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ambient ballast control
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:31:03 -0800
hi joe.i have given your design some thought which means this post will probably be really!! stupid.design constrantsambient design = the stuff will get wet/ electric is bad or expensiveminimixe free surface area in ballast tanks = no water sloshing around in the tanks on the surface.cheap = not everyone hit the lotto last nightdependable = we don't want to die, just are friends think so.flood valves use a flapper design with a rod throught the flapper held with a spring to act as a overpressure relief valve. mount the hinge on the rear so water flow will hold open incase of failure. control system manual psuh pull rod and bell cranks to single lever, the relief springs will help with the rigging here to rods will not have to be exact. just like the overe presuazation valve one a boeing but the spring will be on the outside not the inside with the controll rod going through the flapper.vent valves and blow valvesrun your vents to the sail you can use pvc pipe due to low pressure and mount ball valves there.rick m a+p/ia