Air can be about 5 percent CO2, from a stuffy romm, before people become uncomforatable.
Carbon monoxide CO, unlike CO2, is a bad poison. CO is produced by incomplete combustion, i.e. when there isn't ennough oxygen to make CO2, you get CO.
Carbon monoxide binds very strongly to the iron in the hemoglobin in the blood. Once carbon monoxide attaches, it is very difficult to release. So if you breath in carbon monoxide, it sticks to your hemoglobin and takes up all of the oxygen binding sites. Eventually, your blood loses all of its ability to transport oxygen, and you suffocate.
Because carbon monoxide binds to hemoglobin so strongly, you can be poisoned by carbon monoxide even at very low concentrations if you are exposed for a long period of time. Concentrations as low as 20 or 30 parts per million (PPM) can be harmful if you are exposed for several hours. Exposure at 2,000 PPM for one hour will cause unconsciousness.
Many common devices produce carbon monoxide, including cars, gas
appliances, wood stoves and cigarettes, especially if used in a
confined space.
Tom,
Your right, it's the CO2 rise that will kill/harm you before the lack of
oxygen.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Doster" <thomas.doster@gmail.com>
To: < personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Regulator pression - Korea plastic sub -
Hello Bob and Paul
> On the note of life support, simply adding oxygen as it's used might
> not be a completely viable option. I'm not a doctor or scientist, but
> even though you're replacing oxygen that you've used, you're still not
> getting rid of the CO2 that you've added. I think 10% CO2 is lethal
> (less? anyone know the answer?) even with 50% or more O2. The normal
> amount of O2 in the air is about 20%. Now, when you're adding O2
> you're adding to the overall gas in the cabin, and thereby driving
> down the percentage of CO2, but I would imagine that it would catch up
> eventually. One might even say too soon to make it a reasonable
> approach to life support systems.
>
> An interesting option for relieving pressure would be to have vaccuum
> flasks inside the pressure hull. I'm not sure how worthwhile it would
> be to add pressure vessels holding a vaccuum. The purpose would be to
> take away the pressure added by the O2 being leaked into the cabin.
> Still going to run into too much CO2 though.
>
> I could be terribly wrong about all this, and if I am, I'd like to
> know. Just something to think about though.
>
> -Tom D
>
> On 8/30/06, Fanta <fanta590@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Bob and Paul,
>> Thank you very much for your advice, it is very useful for me. Please
>> tell
>> me: the plan sale in the site Lake sub, is it a real plan? is it
>> serieuse?
>> are there some buy and construction succeed?
>> thank you again
>> Fanta
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Duncan <katsurencho@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Metal Anomality Detector(MAD), the stinger on the tail of the P3. I
>> don't know about the uproar, i'm sure there was. The P3 can fly low and
>> slow, which has been an advantage. The disadvantage was that those 4 big
>> fans could be heard by the submarine miles away. Or even 2 big fans,
>> 'cause
>> they often shut down one, and sometimes 2 engines to save fuel at low
>> altitude.
>> The British have or had (i really don't keep up) the Nimron, who's
>> disadvantage was that it couldn't fly so slow. Easy to overfly the
>> target.
>> It's more related to the 737 than a P3.
>> Technology has soared so fast over the years. I flew in P3's in the
>> early
>> '80's and Moffett Field is all NASA now, the Navy moved out. Sound
>> travels
>> so fast and well in water. It's the easiest way to detect something
>> underwater that has the potential to move. Every machine has a signature,
>> electric motors, shafts turning, people talking. Electronics usually put
>> out
>> some RF, even if it's very slight. People talking probably not part of
>> the
>> machine signature!!
>> You can have 2, 283 (i'm old, i think they call them 6Ltr) Chevy
>> engines
>> built at the same place by the same people, and they will have 2
>> different
>> signatures. The sound the crankshaft makes, the sound the pistons make.
>> Once
>> your engine is heard, it's signature is put into a computer, then when it
>> is
>> heard again, it is recognized, and distinguishd from any other 283
>> engine,
>> or submarine.
>> I was flying P3's when CWO Johnny Walker was still in business. The
>> Soviets just read all our top secret and any messages like reading a
>> newspaper. There is a movie about him "Family of Spies". During that
>> time,
>> the Soviets learned that we were detecting them by sound. So, they
>> started
>> making their subs quieter. It did make it more difficult, but not
>> impossible. Since then electronics have became far, far more
>> sophisticated.
>>
>> I don't know how Russian ships are now (or other former Soviet
>> countries),
>> and it's by no means my intent to speak adversly of them. In the past you
>> could always tell a Soviet ship from miles away, if you see a giant rust
>> bucket on the water it was Soviet.
>>
>> As i understand the new P-8's are suppose to start showing up at PAX
>> River
>> Naval Air Station (home of NAVAIR, Naval Aviation Test Center) next year.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> Paul Kreemer < paulkreemer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bob, does MAD trapping mean hiding in magnetic anomalies? Sounds like
>> some
>> you've had some interesting experiences!
>>
>> And wasn't there a big uproar over replacing the P3 with the 737 versus a
>> prop plane?
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/06, Bob Duncan <katsurencho@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Howdy
>> > Having been a P3 engineer at one time, VP-9, Moffett Field. You could
>> avoid them if there were MAD trapping. But, usually they listen in on
>> sonobouys.
>> > And the P3 is going away from the US Navy, the P8 is comming in soon,
>> P-8 is a Boeing 737.
>> >
>> >
>> > Paul Kreemer < paulkreemer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, PSUBers should consider plastic hulls to help avoid detection by
>> > sub
>> hunting P-3 Orions. ;-) Regarding manufacture and use, this
>> cautionary
>> note from Dewey Mason sounds pretty informed on the subject:
>> http://www.psubs.org/faq.html#fiberglasshull
>> >
>> >
>> > Here are a couple of notes on cabin air from the PSUBS site. The cabin
>> pressure would increase more slowly if you could add only oxygen and not
>> air. And if your dive time is short enough you may not need to do
>> scrubbing
>> or oxygen replacement.
>> >
>> > http://www.psubs.org/faq.html#cabinair
>> >
>> > http://www.psubs.org/faq.html#lifesupport
>> >
>> > A lot of design decisions here... Like many more experienced members
>> > have
>> done, let me suggest buying some Kittredge plans. You can get the K-250
>> or
>> K-350 plans here: http://johnmaynard.tripod.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > take care-
>> > Paul
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/26/06, Fanta < fanta590@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hello everyone,
>> > > I am doing some calculate on the paper about the air pression inside
>> > > of
>> the pocket sub.
>> > > If I use a tank of compression air for supply air to pilot, the
>> > > pression
>> inside of cabine up slowly, it need an system automatic depression, it
>> means: return the pression as 1 atm. Here, some one has an idea about
>> this
>> system? Please drop for me a plan or some idea.
>> > > The second problem is carbonic air is up and I want to filtre air.
>> > > Have
>> you some advices about this?
>> > >
>> > > I hear about sub spy of North Korean, base on information 3 years
>> > > ago,
>> its made by plastic !! diver very limit but low price and it is enough
>> for
>> past many stations control in South Korea. North Korea use this type for
>> infiltration to South Korea, Are there someone here have more information
>> about this type sub? I do interesting this because it is confortable for
>> poor amateur sub builder.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you very much
>> > > Fanta
>> > >
>> > > Love and Peace, God bless you
>> > >
>> > > ________________________________
>> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
>> faster.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Tejas is a Spanish spelling of a Native Amerian word which translates
>> > to
>> English as "Friend". There was a Mexican territory with this name. But,
>> the
>> German settlers and other gringos came along and couldn't say it right.
>> So,
>> it ended up Texas.
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
>> faster.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
>> faster.
>>
>>
>>
>> Love and Peace, God bless you
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
>>
>>
>
>
>
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