That sounds more like a problem with discharge RATE, than the discharge. And where was that fan? It might have caused a spark, too, but from your description, I would suspect the problem was overheating and, somehow or other, a short in the battery itself, or possibly a hydrogen explosion inside the case. Another possibility is that the mineral oil might have become contaminated with junk bubbling up, which could have turned it into a nice conduction field. That translates to a dead short, and yeah, I'd think the next sound he heard would be confirming the backyard big bang theory.
We never did big discharges on compensated battery systems without draining the oil down, dragging them out of the sub, and opening the cells. And we never, never, never did it without voltmeters attached and a way to stop the process if things started to go south. There's just WAY too much activity in there to do it safely any other way. In other words, ignorance isn't bliss, and in this case, he was lucky not to get himself killed.
My Batterys are direct in the saltwater - there is no casing around - the
battery itself ws the casing. regards Carsten
"Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> schrieb:
> >> Yes during charing we have to reopen each cell - hundreds of plastics
screws - and the bubbels grab all the time some oil and make >>the battery
outside surface wet with oil - so the first time there was a little oilfield
were Peppers dive..
>
> I've never heard Phil Nuytten say anything about this problem, Phil are
you out there? A friend of mine was experimenting with a battery that he had
submerged in mineral oil in his back yard, it was enclosed in a plexi glass
container and topped off with mineral oil. He was discharging the battery using
an electric fan, the thing was forming these very small micro bubbles which
basically was turning into foam. Feeling a little nervous about the situation
he decided to in the house while the thing discharged. The next thing that
happened was a loud explosion and he could see battery parts raining down on the
other side of the house! I would like to use the oil system but I don't want
to blow up either ! Phil could you shed so light on this.
>
> Brian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 16:57
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensated Thursters
>
>
> > "Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> schrieb:
> > > Carsten,
> > > Did you have any problems with the oil in the battery
compartment foaming when the hydrogen bubbles form?
> >
> > Yes during charing we have to reopen each cell - hundreds of plastics screws
- and the bubbels grab all the time some oil and make the battery outside
surface wet with oil - so the first time there was a little oilfield were
Peppers dive..
> > Later we compensate the batterys with air. Some other problems like
sometimes acid in the thruster but can be easier improved.. At the moment we
study air compensate gel-batterys..
> >
> > The Diesel in Euronaut is watercooled - I think a aircooled get maybe to
hot.
> > Contact direct your Deutz Dealer and request a real engine with that
requirement and a scetch of the engineroom. One of there engineers can do the
calculation that shows if your engine room gets to hot or not. I have a water
cooled Mercedes Benz V6 10 Liter displacment with 180 hp in the engine room.
>From the cooling system is a bypass to the oilcooler of the main gear and a
other bypass to the heater system of the cabin..
> >
> > Best regards Carsten - and the Deutz engine is a good one..
> >
> > > Also what kind of engine do you have in Euronaut? I'm sure you are
familiar with Deutz air cooled diesel engines do you think they would work good
in a sub?
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 04:48
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensated Thursters
> > >
> > >
> > > > One day a Peppers air compensate motor flooded with fresh lake water
during the dive. Was clear noticeable - the motors turns lower and harder.
> > > >
> > > > The oil inside the motor has to be turned like in a water break and
thats needs engery.
> > > >
> > > > Vance I compensate the oil inside the small motors that way:
> > > >
> > > > Make a tread fill hole in the casing - and fill the motor complete with
oil.
> > > > Than make a long screw (with o-ring under the head) - longer than needed
inside the hole as plug. The longer as needed part of the screw inside the
casing compress the little maybe remain airbubble.
> > > >
> > > > On oil compensate batterys we used shampo-bottles as compenste bags.
> > > >
> > > > best regrads Carsten
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <vbra676539@aol.com> schrieb:
> > > > > Alec, How do you compensate the oil? I'd love to try some of those 36
volt Minn-Kotas. They've got a ton of umph, and might get me back a couple of
hundred pounds of payload from George's Model-T Rex style thruster cans. And it
would be cheap, too. Vance
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Alec.Smyth@compuware.com
> > > > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > Sent: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 9:39 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensated Thursters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I had an email conversation with Carl about a year ago on that topic.
They're just straight air compensated, with Swagelok SS fittings tapped into the
trolling motor casings. The reason I'd contacted him was to ask whether he was
using air, because some on here maintained that at his depths, the partial
pressure of O2 in air would be a fire hazard. I think his sub demonstrates it's
not.
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW Snoopy's trolling motors started out air compensated and are now
in their second season with oil compensation. I have nothing at all against air
compensation, and would go with that if my air bottles were outside the hull.
But the way it was implemented on Snoopy the air was passed through the shafts
from the cabin, and there just wasn't space to do it properly along with the
cables. What's been interesting about the switch to oil is I can't notice ANY
difference. The motors seem to pull just as strong, and even sound exactly the
same as before.
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Alec
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]
On Behalf Of vbra676539@aol.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:17 PM
> > > > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensated Thursters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Oil compensated DC motors work just fine at moderate depths. Alvin had
problems originally with brushes arcing, but he Hymak 5 hp motor used by Hyco on
nearly everything they built was a serious workhorse. You get to tear it down
and change brushes periodically as they wear faster, and they'll get the oil
dirty, so you'll have to watch that. I was on Karl Stanley's web page last night
and it looks to me like his Idabel is using about a case of trolling motors, and
they must be compensated, as the sub is rated for 3000 foot service. Maybe we
ought to ask him what the secret is, if any.
> > > > > Vance
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: DJACKSON99@aol.com
> > > > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > > Sent: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil Compensated Thursters
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone support this statement: "Scripps has tried to fill the DC
motors with oil, but the oil gets between the brushes and the commutator, where
the insulation properties of the oil causes problems. Although it would be
possible to use high voltage to break through the oil film, the high voltage is
a safety hazard for the divers."
> > > > > -- www.empiremagnetics.com/articles/deep_sea.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking about 24 or 36 volt oil compensated brushed trolling
motors, but after reading the above I looked and could not find any examples of
oil compensated brushed motors under 100 volts.
> > > > >
> > > > > What are your experiences and thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > --Doug J
> > > > > www.submarineboat.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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