RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] payload

Vance,

Sounds like you are leaning toward the non Perry approach to battery placement. You being an old Perry pilot and fan, why are you looking at going with internal batteries? Like you said, Delta is a great reliability example to follow, of a sub with internal batteries. The biggest concern with Delta’s approach is the giant slab of hull, not to mention stiffeners too, that have to be removed to accommodate the box. Doug’s hull is also a good example of a hull/battery box design that deviates from the ABS cookie cutter design guidelines.

Oh, and by the way, I would really like to see your PC-8 hull drawing, if you are willing to share, PLEASE!

Regards,

Adam

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 4:29 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] payload

Sounds good to me. You'd be removing 2 ft3 of displacement, roughly 120#, so it would make sense that another 80# would put you back in the ballpark.

We've been working on my hull today, and perusing the Perry print for the C-class PC-8 hull (7/16" wall/external ribs/28" conn/36"dome seg viewport). I'm liking it for the next effort, maybe with AGMs in a box inside. We'll have to see.

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: joeperkel@hotmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] width to length ratio

Vance,

Yes, the tow-ability issue precisely as you described, has much to do with what I've been doing to the design.

I have noticed that lake Diver and Persistence both have to add a bunch of free weights when they dive solo. Iv'e been told it's because these boats are so small and "tender" payload wise, that you have to adjust your final dive weight either with or without a second person.

So here's a question.......

If I add that second pair of 120's, each cylinder displaces about 1 cubic foot, give or take. If I adjust the final weight of the boat at full payload (with second crew, at say 200 lbs) and all four of these cylinders for perfect dive trim (and use VBT for negative).

Then when I want to dive solo, removing two of these cylinders should mean that I would only have to add about 70 lbs of free weights rather than a full 200 lbs. Is this correct reasoning?

Joe

>From: vbra676539@aol.com
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] width to length ratio
>Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 12:44:21 -0500
>
> Oh, boy, that ought to get some discourse. But, in the interem, Joe >Perkel and I have been talking quite a lot about "towability" (is that a >word?). Underwater, at low speeds, this ratio stuff and junk hanging off >the boat (thrusters, manipulators, lights, etc.,) just isn't all that >important. But making the trip across Biscayne Bay, for instance, being >dragged along to the dive site by a small vessel, that same junk hanging >off and blunt designs in general cause the boats to tow like baby shipping >containers, and that makes for a very LONG day. As to ratios, yacht guys >and gals will say 5 to 1 or better, but 3 to 1 will do in a pinch.
>Vance
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: grandadmiraldonitz@yahoo.com
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Sent: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:27 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NEWS ARTICLE: For sub hobbyists, smugglers' >craft is subpar
>
>
>Got to love 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea. Here is a question. In the >width to length. What is the submarine ratio of width to length?
>
>James
>
>
>Ray Keefer <psubs2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Oops,
>
>Sorry, I didn't.
>
>Anyone mention Disney's "20,000 Leagues Under the
>Sea"? That is the other common factor I have seen in
>this group.
>
>Regards,
>Ray
>
>--- "George H. Slaterpryce III"
>wrote:
>
> > First time I've been quoted on anything, I was
> > actually surprised she
> > contacted me, but I still feel all warm and fuzzy
> > anyway. The Cousteau quote
> > was spot on! Ten bucks says everyone she emailed
> > talked about him in one
> > form or another.
> >
> > George H. Slaterpryce III
> > www.captovis.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joseph Perkel"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:51 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NEWS ARTICLE: For sub
> > hobbyists, smugglers'
> > craft is subpar
> >
> >
> > >
> > > "We all watched way too many Cousteau
> > movies as kids."
> > >
> > > ....Yes Sir Alec, you've got that right!!..... A
> > real Cousteau buff will
> > > remember this episode....
> > >
> > > "Octopus..Octopus..poor little Octopus.......why
> > do you look so sad?"
> > >
> > >
> > > Well done to those quoted!!! The press did a good
> > job with this one!
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: "Jay K. Jeffries"
> > >>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >>To:
> > >>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NEWS ARTICLE: For sub
> > hobbyists, smugglers' craft
> > >>is subpar
> > >>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:01:47 -0500
> > >>
> > >>Found this in a link to the Pittsburgh Gazette.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Respectfully,
> > >>
> > >>Jay K. Jeffries
> > >>
> > >>Andros Is., Bahamas
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to
> > entertain a thought
> > >>without
> > >>accepting it.
> > >> -
> >
> > Aristotle
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> For sub hobbyists, smugglers' craft is subpar
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Thursday, November 30, 2006
> > >>
> > >>By Jennifer Saranow, The Wall Street Journal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>This month, the Coast Guard detained four men who
> > were allegedly trying to
> > >>smuggle 3.5 tons of cocaine meant for the U.S.
> > News accounts of the Nov.
> > >>16
> > >>bust, about 90 miles southwest of Costa Rica,
> > described their unusual
> > >>vessel
> > >>as a 50-foot homemade fiberglass submarine.
> > >>
> > >>That caught the attention of a busy netherworld of
> > hobbyists who build
> > >>submarines in their garages.
> > >>
> > >>"The captured drug-sub appears to be amateurish in
> > construction and not
> > >>nearly as seaworthy as the subs we have seen,
> > designed and built," said
> > >>Jon
> > >>Wallace, a software engineer for Hewlett-Packard
> > in Weare, N.H. In 1996 he
> > >>cofounded the Personal Submersibles Organization,
> > which now counts about
> > >>13,000 visitors per month to its Web site,
> > psubs.org.
> > >>
> > >>"Semi-submersible at best," sniffed another critic
> > in a posting on the
> > >>group's site.
> > >>
> > >>After reading reports and seeing photographs of
> > the captured vessel,
> > >>hobbyists concluded that the gray drug craft was
> > crudely constructed and
> > >>not
> > >>a serious attempt at building a submarine. Some
> > said it was more a boat
> > >>meant to blend into the water, skim just below the
> > surface, travel long
> > >>distances and avoid radar detection. A giveaway
> > was that it was made of
> > >>fiberglass -- which is generally not a good
> > material for building a
> > >>submersible vessel, they say. It also had a
> > squarish design rather than
> > >>the
> > >>cylindrical shape required to withstand pressure
> > and stress.
> > >>
> > >>Law-enforcement agencies from Colombia to
> > California are increasingly
> > >>worried about drug-stuffed submarines slinking
> > along beneath the seas. "We
> > >>are out there actively searching for these," says
> > Capt. Thomas Cullen,
> > >>chief
> > >>of response for the U.S. Coast Guard 11th District
> > based in Alameda,
> > >>Calif.,
> > >>which oversaw the boarding and seizing of the
> > vessel off Costa Rica. It
> > >>was
> > >>the first manned sub-like vehicle seized by the
> > U.S., according to Capt.
> > >>Cullen. Authorities in Colombia have seized a
> > couple of homemade subs in
> > >>the
> > >>past two years.
> > >>
> > >>Costa Rican authorities say that the vessel seized
> > this month was
> > >>gasoline-powered, and that it traveled just below
> > the surface with the
> > >>crew
> > >>using snorkel-type tubes to breathe. "Certainly
> > these guys are not PSUBS
> > >>regulars. Gasoline engines in a submersible are
> > no-nos," wrote Ray Keefer,
> > >>45 years old, a computer test engineer in Gaston,
> > Ore., and co-founder of
> > >>the group. Gasoline engines would be dangerous in
> > a submarine. The Coast
> > >>Guard says its reports indicate the seized craft
> > had a diesel engine.
> > >>
> > >>Mr. Keefer and others believe the captured vessel
> > should more accurately
> > >>be
> > >>called a "David boat," a type of torpedo boat used
> > during the Civil War
> > >>that
> > >>operated mostly underwater with only its
> > smokestack and a few inches of
> > >>hull
> > >>visible above the surface. "Mostly underwater but
> > not a submersible," he
> > >>wrote.
> > >>
> > >>James Huffman, 28, a warehouse laborer in Tacoma,
> > Wash., and submarine
> > >>history buff who first got interested in
> > submarines while playing the "Up
> > >>Periscope!" computer game in eighth grade, says
> > the craft reminded him of
> > >>the gasoline- and battery-powered USS Holland from
> > around 1900, the U.S.
> > >>Navy's first commissioned submarine.
> > >>
> > >>Man's fascination with exploring the underwater
> > world dates back at least
> > >>to
> > >>Alexander the Great, who according to legend
> > descended beneath the waves
> > >>in
> > >>some kind of glass globe. Experimentation with
> > underwater craft continued
> > >>in
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
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