Carsten,
I wholeheartedly agree with safety criteria, but I don't think we could actually stop someone who doesn't follow the criteria, given the water is public and we're not the authorities. What I think we could do is put together a package of safety criteria and suggested safe operating procedures to be sent to participants when they register. This would provide people useful information and increase safety, which to my mind is more important than legal matters. But, though I'm not a lawyer, I suspect it would also provide some legal cover as well. While it's not reasonable for PSUBS to be responsible for what PSUBS cannot enforce, we might also be seen as lax were we to wash our hands of safety considerations altogether. I can imagine someone suing PSUBS for NOT doing anything.
So what should we do about safety? I would respond all that we can. But because we're neither a regulatory agency nor the authority on the ground, all that we can do is provide recommendations. Let's make the best recommendations we can, ones nobody could dispute promote safety.
Jon and Ray, what d'you think? Ultimately if you're not comfortable with the approach, I suppose a "sub rodeo" could be organized as just a get-together of friends with no reference or endorsement from PSUBS. But if you do agree on the basic approach, then we can drop this topic and Doug and company move on to crafting actual recommendations.
The other guy who I think we'd need a thumbs up from is Gary Sluis, since I think he's taking on the organizer role for 2007. I got a call from him over the weekend and he was coordinating dates.
thanks,
Alec
________________________________
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org on behalf of MerlinSub@t-online.de
Sent: Sun 12/10/2006 5:21 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention Emergency Dive Plan
> There is a long tradition in maritime law of captains having extraordinary freedoms that would not be granted to an individual on land. Captains have, under certain situations, rights to put people in jail, sell a ship or cargo that does not belong to them, or even perform marriages. As I recall, there are two reasons for this. First, a vessel at sea is physically cut off from the legal system governing us on land (e.g. you can't call the cops). Second, emergencies may arise that require prompt action and an effective command structure without second guessing. Why do I go off on this tangent? Think of a PSUB in an emergency deep underwater, and whether those two conditions apply. I think everyone would agree the builder and operator of a particular PSUB is best placed to take whatever decision they must, regardless of what convention rules or the queen of England might say.
>
> What I would suggest is that PSUBS as such continue to organize the land based activities on the understanding that the captains are sovereign while afloat. This doesn't mean people cannot use emails to exchange ideas about how to operate in the safest way, or to coordinate logistics. I'd welcome any discussion along those lines, including the development of suggested operating procedures. But as Jon pointed out, PSUBS has no authority to enforce the rules. I believe this means they would not, in fact, be rules at all. Just recommendations.
> thanks,
>
> Alec
Hi Alec ! Great and true words - like to read it !
On the other side.. if you responsible for the invertation to a sub convention and somebody ask to get in with his obviously unsafe sub - build from old oildrums - petrol driven and tanks blown by propan (for example only.. ;-) ) what will you do?
I would like to require a minimum standard which can easy fullfill by any sub builder.. No wizzard work - just a emergency breahting device, a drop weight, signal bouy, no weapons on board..(this rule for US only.. smile..) etc. etc.
regards Carsten
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