From: vbra676539@aol.com
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:40:09 -0500
Joe, If you use a plate, or George's XXX pipe nipple, with the initial pen
chamfered so you get full penetration from both sides, then I'm thinking
you could wham that baby with a five pound shop sledge and the only thing
you'd get would be a dent in the hull (and you'd have to REALLY wham it, at
that!). Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: joeperkel@hotmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
Vance,
Same as called for in the plans, no different, with the single exception of
not having the cylinders inside. My concern is only right at the
penetrator, which will be my welding, not a nicely engineered off the shelf
part. I may be being a bit overcautious here in the concern, since it would
be the downstream operating valve getting the workout, not the shut off.
I will be bending the tubing as well, just as you describe, (same as
Persistence). The PVC holders is a neat trick...thanks.
Yes, I want the quick "change out" of the externals just like that...pull
up to the dive shop and do it in the parking lot! I also want it easy to do
in the water as well so you can carry spares on the boat.
Joe
>From: vbra676539@aol.com
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:24:25 -0500
>
>Joe, What kind of tubing are you planning? I've always bent stuff to fit
>the nooks and crannies, plus built split PVC clamps drilled in advance
for >the tube size. This usually gives enough support, and provides some
give in >the system for vibration, etc. The outside just hard mounts
wherever you >like. If you are using 104s externally with 1st stages (and
what could be >easier than charging at the local dive shop?) then you'll
need a hose >transition for the regulator, and that will further isolate
the exterior >part of the system. Shut off valves should be right on the
penetrator if >possible, and then your operating valve on a panel somewhere
closer to >hand. Vance
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: joeperkel@hotmail.com
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Sent: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 7:18 PM
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
>
>
>Nice simple solution Stephen that eluded me until yo just metioned
>it...thank you. It's the simple things can can escape you the easiest.
>
>joe
>
> >From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 09:04:08 +1000
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >Mount the safety shutoff/ball valve on a bracket fixed to the hull so
the
> >bracket fatigues not the pipe work.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Steve P
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
Perkel
> >Sent: Monday, 11 December 2006 10:19 PM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> >
> >Stephen,
> >
> >I'm actually not worried about the valves themselves...it's my welding
>and
> >plumbing that would be the potential weak point. I wonder about years
of
> >yanking and leverage on the valve handles, corrosion....etc.
> >
> >I'ts just the way I think, just like my preflight inspections...most
>people
> >don't look at hinge pin integrity on rental aircraft.....I do! Unlikely
> >that
> >
> >one ever breaks but, if one does......!
> >
> >Joe
> >
> > >From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
> > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:50:09 +1000
> > >
> > >Joe
> > >
> > >If the 1st Stage Reg is a relatively modern and well maintained it
>would >be
> > >very unlikely the genie would get out of the bottle. Most are
designed >to
> > >shutoff in the event of a failure.
> > >
> > > If you had a ball valve between the HP through hull and the 1st
stage > >reg
> > >for an emergency shutoff in a free flow situation and use DIN valves
to
> > >connect the HP line to the 1st stage reg your system you should have
>all
> > >your bases covered.
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >
> > >Steve Pearce
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
>Perkel
> > >Sent: Monday, 11 December 2006 2:21 PM
> > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > >
> > >Stephen,
> > >
> > >To my mind, the 3k psi, is a very potent genie if it gets out of the
> >bottle
> > >uncontrolled. I would feel a bit more comfortable if my inside
shutoff
> > >valve, and plumbing would not be dealing with full tank pressure.
> > >
> > >The danger as I see it, is between the hull wall and the shut off >
>valve,...
> > >the weldments, plumbing walls, etc.
> > >
> > >Downside to the 1st stage outside, as pointed out to me is possible >
>icing.
> > >Here in muggyland, I'm not too worried about that and, If I recall
> > >correctly
> > >
> > >a "freeflow" condition is only possible with the second stage, which
I
> > >suppose I dont need.
> > >
> > >In any case, this is one of those many little "detail" items to
contend
> > >with.
> > >
> > >Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
> > > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > > >Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:31:53 +1000
> > > >
> > > >Joe
> > > >
> > > >Why not have your hp line penetrating the hull and the first stage
>reg
> > > >inside?
> > > >
> > > >Steve P
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
> >Perkel
> > > >Sent: Monday, 11 December 2006 12:25 PM
> > > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thanks for the input, and the refresher!
> > > >
> > > >The concern here for my external mounted hp tanks, is "stepping
down" > >the
> > > >tank pressure as it enters the hull for the valve controls, which I
> >will
> > > >do.
> > > >
> > > >Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Paul Kreemer" <paulkreemer@gmail.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > > > >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:04:55 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >Above ambient - duh, of course! Thanks for straightening me out.
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >On 12/10/06, Stephen Pearce <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Paul
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>First stage scuba regulators are designed in most cases to
deliver
> > > >between
> > > > >>140 to 160 PSI over and above the external ambient pressure.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Regards
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Steve P
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > >>*From:* owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:
> > > > >>owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul
Kreemer
> > > > >>*Sent:* Monday, 11 December 2006 7:46 AM
> > > > >>*To:* personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > >>*Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The LP taps should give you just 140-150psi. (
> > > > >>http://www.scubadiverinfo.com/2_regulators.html) That'd about
>equal
> > >the
> > > > >>ambient pressure at 330ft. So the deep tech divers must use >
>adjusted
> > > > >>first
> > > > >>stages to go as deep as they do. ??
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Paul
> > > > >>
> > > > >>On 12/10/06, *Joseph Perkel* <joeperkel@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>"The pressure in a scuba tank is much greater than what we'll
get >in
> > >our
> > > > >>trim tanks"
> > > > >>
> > > > >>.........Does a 350' rated psub use HP air directly off the tank
> > >valve,
> > > >or
> > > > >>thru an LP port on a second stage to blow soft tanks? Someone
>please
> > > > >>remind
> > > > >>me what psi service is in an LP port? A quick google came up
>empty.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Joe
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
> > > > >> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > >> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > > >> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: payload
> > > > >> >Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:26:47 EST
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >NP- You are right, the psi is the same. The mechanical
advantage
> > >does
> > > > >>apply
> > > > >> >with a decrease in volume though.
> > > > >> >The analogy of a square, one inch rod, pushing into the sub's
>one
> > > > >> >atmosphere
> > > > >> >gives you a certain pressure, where as a 1/4 inch round rod (
or
> > >hose
> > >
> > > >)
> > > > >> >would push less.
> > > > >> >Still, to push something out of the sub ( like ballast water)
>will
> > > > >>require
> > > > >> >a
> > > > >> >pump able to push the 267 psi.
> > > > >> >Depending on the volume pumped, 267 psi is easy to achieve,
and > >in
> > > >the
> > > > >> >case
> > > > >> >of a trim tank, you're pumping air into a tank to expel the >
>water.
> > > > >> >I've got a small compressor in my vehicle for emergency
roadside
> > > >repairs
> > > > >> >that pumps to 250 psi ( but at a very small volume ) that runs
>on >12
> > > > >> >volts.
> > > > >> >The pressure in a scuba tank is much greater than what we'll
get > >in
> > > >our
> > > > >> >trim
> > > > >> >tanks.
> > > > >> >Blowing out the trim ballast ( adjusting trim en route ) must
be
> > >part
> > > >of
> > > > >> >the
> > > > >> >system or we'll have to surface constantly to dump the water.
> > > > >> >Frank D.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > > >
>>************************************************************************
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