Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Going faster (was: gel-coat)

["John Pier" <caribsub@coqui.net>]

Bravo Carsten,
I agree, patent it then talk.
and yes best protection is to produce faster and  better rather than a
patent which can be copied anyway with a slight difference in the design.
I know a lot of persons who are spending a lot of money to try to patent
projects which had been in the public domain for a while.
It is completely useless
Also the terms "Patent pending" or other phony patents are totally illegal
and can be prosecuted.
Herve Jaubert

----- Original Message -----
From: Carsten Standfuß <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Going faster (was: gel-coat)


> My 3 cents - 1 cents each point:
>
> 1.) special hull surface - may look for swim suits for olympic swimmers
> in the internet, most of the winners of the last olympic sports events
> use there swim-clothes from one factory/material - I have forgotten the
> name - something
> with shark.. We can cover our subs with that clothes .. if it not work
> it is easy to remove it. (But sandpaper will clear not work..)
> To test it will be very easy and unexpensive - two submarine styled
> bodys in the size of coca cola bottles on a balance beam - one with the
> cover the other without. Or two girls on the balance beam on a rope
> behind a boat - one with the swim-clothes - one without ..
>
> But I am myself are not so much interesst in that stuff because for the
> reason that submarines which stay longer in the water will quickly
> get some floor/flower/shells on their surface and need for this
> reason a layer of anti-flower-paint.
> I remember some years ago the US-navy did some test on a
> minesweeper-ship
> hull - works well the first 2-3 weeks..
>
> 2.) flipper wings for propulsion will work - on surface ships.
> During my study we have one human powered prototype ship during a race
> between the europe shipbuilding University's. It was made by dutch
> guys and run well forward - but the reverse thrust was very, very
> low. Karl Fuller and I allready discuss this idear
> for submarine purpose last year - and found that the wings will move in
> one direction and the sub hull in the other.. not very comfortable in a
> submarine
> with a hull go fpr example 60 times minutes up and down or left and
> right - and
> can not go fast to reverse..
> For this reason you need at least to flipper wings which runs in
> opposite
> direction together.
>
> 3.) Richard your are very welcome - but new idears get criticism all the
> time - criticism will stop if your prototype race over/under the water.
>
> If somebody offer a idear to this open group - this indicates
> that it is a open idear and he want to share - if he don't want to
> share this idear - he should not open a discuss about it.
>
> E-MHD thrust without moving part will be a great idear
> for subs in saltwater - Richard, maybe make your world wide patent
> in each nation with a coastline - at least in america and europe,
> maybe also in japan - than come back to share the full idear.
> And if your idear is usefull - everybody around you will copy them
> - if you want or not - the only way to make big money with that is
> produce them quicker than all the other guys - and better.
>
> How much for a 40 kilowatt device which a 70% thrust ratio -
> like a standard propeller ? Which voltage, how many space inside
> the sub ? Which influence to the computer and instruments inside the sub
> ?
> Works that with steel hull subs ?
> Which influence to the sub/engine during the time the (steel-) wreck on
> the
> bottom gets visible close to your portside windows ?
> I can send you some hundreds question more .. but a the moment I can not
> belive
> that this work with a good power to thrust ratio..
>
> Carsten
>
>
> "Michael B. Holt" schrieb:
> >
> > Thanks, Tim, for the essay about grooves in the hull.  Somewhere
> > around here I have papers about that sort of thing, and there was a
> > patent granted for the idea of a grooved hull.
> >
> > One of the papers is about the shark and dolphin skin characteristics.
> > What I gleaned from the article was that dolphin skin, especially,
> > reduced drag by being flexible.  As I recall the paper, bubbles formed
> > on the skin, and the dolphin would eject them by sending a wave of
> > warm blood along its body while flexing the entire skin in a series
> > of pulses.  The bubbles served the same function as the sandpaper, but
> > only up to a certain speed; beyond that, they were drag-inducers.
> >
> > Of course, figuring out how to send a series of waves long the
> > out hull of a submarine might be an engineering challenge ...
> >
> > Shark skin is different, being covered with a layer of fibers oriented
> > along the flow direction.  That might work, for some speeds, but the
> > idea of a submarine covered in plastic fur is, at least, funny as hell.
> >
> > Has anyone evdr followed up the idea of the flipper as propulsion?
> > There's a canoe builder in Canada who has a pedal-pwoered boat that
> > uses a flexible flipper for propulsion.  I'll see what I can find.
> >
> > Mike
>
>