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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks



Dan,
         Do the Kittridge subs have piston pumps for pumping ballast water in and out?   Is there a certain type of pump that you would recommend for that use?   You would need something that could obviously handle the pressure when not in use and a isolation valve also for safety.
 
Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan H.
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 05:11
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks

Bill,
 
What you describe sound good in principle.  For a SCUBA tank it would way to cumbersome to built it to contain 2000 pound air for the small benefit of not having to adjust your buoyancy in other ways.
 
For your sub it would be more doable, but still, rather then install a large air tight piston and the mechanism to operate it, wouldn't you get the same result if you operated a simple small piston pump and moved water in or out of a sealed tank?  A pump would have a piston, true, but it would be smaller, easier to house and operate.  Also one pump can be connected to and operate more then one tank. 
 
Again, your idea is good but there may already be easier ways to accomplish what your after. 
 
A note on the topic:  Captain Kittredge is rigging a sub to do what you suggest.  He wanted to create a buoyancy system that didn't require compressed air to operate.  I believe he's using a hand operated water pump and bladder in his dry sub to pump water into.  If you put a bladder in a pod you can do the same thing in your wet sub.
 
Dan H.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Akins
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:51 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks

Hi fellas.
 
I was thinking about the variation in buoyancy in my aluminum scuba tanks. You know when your tank starts to get low on air how
 
it becomes more buoyant. A thought struck me about how that might be counteracted that then led to another thought concerning
 
ballast tanks for a sub. With the scuba tank, I was thinking, what if it had a bottom that moved up and down the length of the tank
 
like a piston in an engine. As the tank emptied from my breathing, the bottom of the tank would be forced toward the top of the tank
 
by the water pressure until the remaining pressure in the tank stopped it from moving. In this way the rest of the tank volume would
 
now be replaced by water and the tank wouldn't get more buoyant as it emptied. Of course you would have to have a very good
 
foolproof seal. Even perhaps a seal that the tank's internal air pressure would push against to make the seal tightly seal. I wonder
 
if anyone has ever tried making something like that? That was my first idea. Then that thought made me think about this. On my wetsub
 
I've been planning to install 6 or 8 inch pipe about 4 feet long on either side for my soft ballast tanks. I had planned to use two scuba tanks
 
to blow them and the scuba tanks would each be attached to the top of the pipes on either side of the sub providing plenty of air for both
 
the soft ballast pipes and also for the hard ballast bladders in the bow and stern. What I was thinking about was if I could use the same idea
 
as with the scuba tank moving bottom on my soft ballast tanks. Suspose I had a piston with a really good seal. Now I'm on the surface
 
with the soft ballast pipes full volume keeping me up, then I could either crank the piston inward or even use hydraulics to
 
push the piston inward. That would compress the air in the soft ballast pipe and lower its volume and I would submerge. Then when I wanted to
 
surface, I could crank the piston out, allowing the air to expand, the volume to increase again, and then I would surface. That way I wouldn't have
 
to use any air tanks to fill my soft ballast tanks. Sounds like it would work to me but I'd have to make the pipe smooth and have a tight fitting
 
piston with a really good seal on it. If the seal ever blew out I could use my hard ballast tanks and my own personal BCD and still get the sub to the
 
surface and I could also always bail out if I had to. Just a thought about the variable volume scuba tank and soft ballast tanks. What do you
 
fellows think?
 
Bill Akins.