Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS (re)certs

[irox <irox@ix.netcom.com>]

Frank, I think to change the view ports on the delta they will have to
cut out the existing view ports and put in new view port frames which can
retain view ports with an external ring.  There are view ports in the
conning tower, the front end cap, hatch and cylinder, replacing those
would involve cutting on almost every metallic pressure boundary.  It
comes as no surprise that ABS would require these changes to under go
the same scrutiny that is equal to the same components on a new hull.

The level of effort for the Delta team would be high, strip the hull
bare, cut out the existing viewports, weld in new view ports, do they
need to heat treat the hull?, once all the work was done, getting the
new welds x-rayed, re-assembling the hull, unmanned depth test, manned
depth, etc..  Maybe there is more testing that would need done, maybe
the current view port frames work out lighter than the new ones, so
balance calculations need to be checked, etc..

They've apparently already got what they want, ABS certification, unless
their current view ports are increasing long term operational costs,
it going to cheaper to keep them.

A for the ABS monopoly, I'm not so sure (could use Lloyd's if you wanted
to avoid ABS), these guys seem to offer USCG, US NAVY and ABS classification
vessel inspections (and don't appear to work for the ABS):
http://www.underwater-resources.com/index.html

Cheers,
  Ian.


-----Original Message-----
>From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
>Sent: Sep 4, 2008 12:12 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Idabel and ABS
>
>Hi Brent. I've had the same type of experiences with building inspectors. I  
>can see the need for stringent requirements on any structure where people may 
>be  at risk, but sometimes the interpretation of the standards is left open to 
>the  individual inspector, often making it up to a person with little or no 
>direct  experience in that particular field to determine what is "up to code" 
>and what  isn't.
>The process is basically the same, with plan review and step by step  
>inspections, whether it be a house, a bridge, or a submarine.
>Unfortunately, ABS has a monopoly on the process here in the U.S. and as  
>such, can charge as much as they want.
> Alicia is a good example of how the process of obtaining a  certification 
>can become a costly and time consuming affair but remember that  the sub was 
>designed to take paying novice passengers into a potentially  deadly environment 
>so the safety factor must be extremely high. Alicia is much  like that sub 
>designed by U.S. subs and I can just imagine how many man hours it  took to 
>develop the design. Sure would be nice to have a check book that big. 
>Karl has a very robust sub, and like Peter, started small and learned along  
>the way. That's pretty much the approach I'm taking as well. I've got tons of  
>calculation sheets, many hours of design work for different portions of the 
>sub  and it's workings, and still have a long way to go but it's not near 
>enough  paperwork to even approach ABS. I'm a safety freak to some degree but my  
>resources are limited so I'm relying on the testing phase to give me the  
>confidence to dive my sub to it's design depth. I've gotta figure out a means of  
>operating the sub and it's systems remotely so I can send it down empty (  
>connected to a cable of course ) 
>and let it sit there for a few hours while monitoring the sub through  
>onboard cameras. It's not that tough but it's going to be pricey. It's kind  of 
>screwey that ABS won't let Delta change their windows or what ever without  
>re-certifying the entire design, if in fact that's the case.  Governmental 
>bureaucracy can be a pain no doubt, but they are just covering  their ass. Fortunately 
>for us, like ultra lites and similar toys, they allow us  to take risks with 
>our own lives as long as we don't kill someone else. It could  be very stifling 
>to innovation if everything that got thought up had to be  approved by the 
>government. I like to think of us as being similar to the Wright  brothers. 
>Adventure is where you find it! Frank  D.  
>
>
>
>**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel 
>deal here.      
>(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)




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