[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine

JimToddPsub at aol.com JimToddPsub at aol.com
Wed Apr 9 18:28:50 EDT 2014


Regarding acrylic domes and flat ports, what effect does  calendar age and 
number of dive cycles have on life span especially for a deep  diver such as 
this?  It seems that this as well as other overhaul  costs/schedule would 
need to be factored into the project.  I've wondered  about the life span of 
the dome on Idabel.
Jim
 
 
In a message dated 4/9/2014 5:12:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca writes:

 
Scott,
Don't  give up, talk to a submarine hull designer.  Someone who does this 
for a  living, explore all the options.
Pay  for a design in material that is workable
 
 
 
On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 4:06:47 PM,  "swaters at waters-ks.com" 
<swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:


 
 
Ugg. Ok. That might kill that idea.
-Scott Waters 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
From:  Daniel Lance Lance <_lanceind at gmail.com_ (mailto:lanceind at gmail.com) 
>
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 2:57 pm
To: Personal  Submersibles General Discussion
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>

Scott,  
A 3300 fsw capable sub will more then likely require that the  pressure 
hull be fabricated from HY-80 or HY-100 . I can assure you that  working with 
either of these two alloys is not for the faint of heart or  wallet . I am 
sure Phil Nuytten can shed some light on this subject . Idabel  was built from 
parts scavenged from some well know subs. If memory serves me  correctly 
the acrylic dome and a HY-100 sphere came IUC's Beaver . The other  sphere 
came from one of the Perry boats .( Vance if I have this wrong please  set me 
straight ). If you get lucky and find some similar bargains you might  hit 
your budget of $100 to $200K . If you have to start from scratch I think  $1 
to $2 million would not be unrealistic considering the learning curve you  
will experience. The level of quality control required to work with HY type  
alloys is something to behold . I am not saying it can't be done it's just  
that you might make a serious dent in your inheritance .
Just my two cents,
Dan Lance



On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:07 PM, <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:


 
Thanks Carsten for the encouragement
Thanks Alan for all the CAD info
 
-Scott Waters 
 

 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine

From: "Carsten Standfuß " <_MerlinSub at t-online.de_ 
(mailto:MerlinSub at t-online.de) >
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 10:33 am
To:  "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>


Scott thats excat the way to go. Big step  for a man - but not immpossible 
to reach.

"We are going to the moon, not because it is  easy, but because it is 
hard.."  



<_swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  schrieb: 

 
The good thing is I have a very capable shop now days. With  every process 
of welding available, robotic plasma cutting and design  software, a 8,000 
crain/lift, metal lathe, hydrolic ban saw with  coolant, and about every tool 
anyone could want, it makes life a lot  easier. When I started my K-350 
back 5 years ago I was a kid with a  set of blue prints and a goal of one day 
having a submarine and that's  it. I didn't know anything about submarines 
besides they used  "ballast" to go up and down. I didn't know how to weld at 
all or even  knew what a metal lathe was. And the only tools I had was a 
small tool  bag with basic stuff my dad had given me from our family hardware  
store as a graduation present. The reason I don't want to build a  1000' sub 
is it is not a big enough goal. I need something that is the  difficulty 
level of starting with nothing and no idea to a k-350. I  compare a k-350 to a 
1000m (3300') sub with completely capable  manipulator and tooling with very 
advanced technology to be a similar  difficulty level and step. I also want 
to push the envelope for psubs  about what we are capable of. Combined we 
have so much knowledge that  if we all worked together, we could be producing 
ideas and  inventions right up there with the big dogs. Hope this helps 
with  everyone understanding my vision
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters
 
 
 

 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine

From: hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >
Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 5:42 am

To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>





 
 
You can not make a comparison between what Karl built and  what Scott wants 
to build.  The two subs are totally  different.  I could see building 
Scott's dream sub for 125K if  you have your own  pressure vessel fab shop.   
(maybe)  Otherwise it just isn't realistic for that  cost.  
I  do not mean to imply that Scott or any other psub builder can  not build 
a k3000.  As a matter of fact with the proper budget  and realistic 
assessment of your abilities we can all do it.   
Hank

 
 
 
 
On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:06:52  AM, James Frankland 
<_jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com_ (mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com) >  wrote:



 
 
 
Scott,
Have a look at this. As long as your a student of  something, somewhere, 
your ok.  Join a local tiddlywinks class  or something.
 
http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional

This is not too difficult to use.
Regards
James




On 9 April 2014 04:09, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:



 
 
I will do the work myself, and not hire it out  professionally. I built my 
K-350 and it was $40,000 after all the  gadgets were put in and I hired out 
alot of work because I didn't  know how to do it at the time. I did a 
comparative analysis on  weight to dollar. My K-350 at $40,000 and 4,500 lbs is 
comparative  ofa 10,500 lb sub would be $93,333 if you add more for acrylic  
costs my rough math seems to jive with the  $125,000. 

 
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my  U.S. Cellular© Smartphone





hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  
wrote:

 
I think that is a dream guys, 125K no way.  Not if  it is a professional 
build, and it has to be.  If you do it  right you can spend that to do 1,000 
feet.  
Hank

 
 
 
 
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:25:15  PM, Douglas Suhr 
<_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ (mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >  wrote:



 
 
 
Wow! $125K for 2500 ' 3000 feet? That's some serious  dollar-to-fathom 
value! 




On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:14 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:



 
 
$125,000 is reachable for me. Sounds like this could be a  reality.

 
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from my  U.S. Cellular© Smartphone




Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) >  wrote:

He said in an interview that Idabel cost $125,000.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >  wrote:






 
 
Scott, I have no experience with any large  pressure chambers, but I am 
sure you are talking well into the  thousands (perhaps $15,000 to $35,000) 
depending on how long  it takes to set up the required tests (and perform  
them).   


I truly admire your ambition, but like Hank suggested,  1000 feet may be a 
better 2nd sub goal. If I were planning to  go beyond 1000 feet, I would be 
looking to Nuytco, SeaMagine  or Triton but of course cost is then a major 
issue again. Does  anyone know about how much Karl spent building Idabel? ~  
Douglas S. 






 
On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:




 
 
Any idea as to the cost of pressure testing that kind  of pressure? 
Also, I am not a engineer, but am fairly good at  designing things in my 
head. If I designed this in CAD, does  psubs have a good way of sharing CAD 
files for who ever  would like too look at my designs and bounce ideas off  
of? 
I would love for this project to be a way for psubs to  increase overall 
psubs knowledge of cutting edge and  affordable solutions for things like 
sonar and manipulator  arms and things.


 
 
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent from  my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone






 
 
Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) >  wrote:
Maryland and California (Navy) and Texas (southwest  research).
Vance

Sent from my  iPhone

On Apr 8, 2014, at 7:14 PM, swaters  <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:






 
 
So is the design of crush depth of 1750m and test to  1250m the idea? Next 
question is where can you find a  pressure chamber that has 1670psi  
capability?


 
 
Thanks,
Scott Waters









Sent  from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone




Alan James <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) >  wrote:

 
 
Scott,
in  general people design their boats with a crush depth  of
twice  their operating depth, then test them to 1.25 or 1.5  x
there  proposed maximum operating depth.

So  design to 2000 meters & test it to 1250  meters.
Alan




 
 
 

From: swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent: Tuesday, April  8, 2014 4:29 PM
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine





 
 
 
I am playing with the idea of building another  submarine. Here is what I 
am thinking.
1) This project needs to be as challenging as the  same amount of 
difficulty as it was to build my first  submarine
2) I want to have lots of bottom time with my K-350  to learn what needs to 
be improved on in design and  ability.
3) Learn to use CAD 
4) Project will take 5-7 years to complete




My initial goals are
1) Hold 3 people
2) Weigh 10,500lbs or less
3) Depth of 3,300 feet (1000m)

4) Have a very effective range of abilities such as a  good manipulator arm 
and tooling
 
5) Have a wide veiwing maybe a acylic dome  front


Ok, shoot holes in the ideas. What will be the main  challenges to 
overcome? What complications am I not  considering?





 
Thanks,
Scott Waters













Sent  from my U.S. Cellular©  Smartphone







 
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