[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine

Daniel Lance Lance lanceind at gmail.com
Wed Apr 9 19:14:57 EDT 2014 

Maybe Paul Morehouse could weigh in on this .


On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:12 PM, hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Scott,
> Don't give up, talk to a submarine hull designer.  Someone who does this
> for a living, explore all the options.
> Pay for a design in material that is workable
>   On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 4:06:47 PM, "swaters at waters-ks.com" <
> swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>  Ugg. Ok. That might kill that idea.
> -Scott Waters
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
> From: Daniel Lance Lance <lanceind at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 2:57 pm
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Scott,
>  A 3300 fsw capable sub will more then likely require that the pressure
> hull be fabricated from HY-80 or HY-100 . I can assure you that working
> with either of these two alloys is not for the faint of heart or wallet . I
> am sure Phil Nuytten can shed some light on this subject . Idabel was built
> from parts scavenged from some well know subs. If memory serves me
> correctly the acrylic dome and a HY-100 sphere came IUC's Beaver . The
> other sphere came from one of the Perry boats .( Vance if I have this wrong
> please set me straight ). If you get lucky and find some similar bargains
> you might hit your budget of $100 to $200K . If you have to start from
> scratch I think $1 to $2 million would not be unrealistic considering the
> learning curve you will experience. The level of quality control required
> to work with HY type alloys is something to behold . I am not saying it
> can't be done it's just that you might make a serious dent in your
> inheritance .
> Just my two cents,
> Dan Lance
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:07 PM, <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>  Thanks Carsten for the encouragement
> Thanks Alan for all the CAD info
>
> -Scott Waters
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
> From: "Carsten Standfuß " <MerlinSub at t-online.de>
> Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 10:33 am
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> Scott thats excat the way to go. Big step for a man - but not immpossible
> to reach.
>
> "We are going to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is
> hard.."
>
>
>
> <swaters at waters-ks.com> schrieb:
>
>  The good thing is I have a very capable shop now days. With every
> process of welding available, robotic plasma cutting and design software, a
> 8,000 crain/lift, metal lathe, hydrolic ban saw with coolant, and about
> every tool anyone could want, it makes life a lot easier. When I started my
> K-350 back 5 years ago I was a kid with a set of blue prints and a goal of
> one day having a submarine and that's it. I didn't know anything about
> submarines besides they used "ballast" to go up and down. I didn't know how
> to weld at all or even knew what a metal lathe was. And the only tools I
> had was a small tool bag with basic stuff my dad had given me from our
> family hardware store as a graduation present. The reason I don't want to
> build a 1000' sub is it is not a big enough goal. I need something that is
> the difficulty level of starting with nothing and no idea to a k-350. I
> compare a k-350 to a 1000m (3300') sub with completely capable manipulator
> and tooling with very advanced technology to be a similar difficulty level
> and step. I also want to push the envelope for psubs about what we are
> capable of. Combined we have so much knowledge that if we all worked
> together, we could be producing ideas and inventions right up there with
> the big dogs. Hope this helps with everyone understanding my vision
>
> Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>  -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
> From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
> Date: Wed, April 09, 2014 5:42 am
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>   You can not make a comparison between what Karl built and what Scott
> wants to build.  The two subs are totally different.  I could see building
> Scott's dream sub for 125K if you have your own  pressure vessel fab shop.
> (maybe)  Otherwise it just isn't realistic for that cost.
> I do not mean to imply that Scott or any other psub builder can not build
> a k3000.  As a matter of fact with the proper budget and realistic
> assessment of your abilities we can all do it.
> Hank
>   On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:06:52 AM, James Frankland <
> jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com> wrote:
>   Scott,
> Have a look at this. As long as your a student of something, somewhere,
> your ok.  Join a local tiddlywinks class or something.
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional
> This is not too difficult to use.
> Regards
> James
>
>
>  On 9 April 2014 04:09, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>   I will do the work myself, and not hire it out professionally. I built
> my K-350 and it was $40,000 after all the gadgets were put in and I hired
> out alot of work because I didn't know how to do it at the time. I did a
> comparative analysis on weight to dollar. My K-350 at $40,000 and 4,500 lbs
> is comparative ofa 10,500 lb sub would be $93,333 if you add more for
> acrylic costs my rough math seems to jive with the $125,000.
>  Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
>  hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>  I think that is a dream guys, 125K no way.  Not if it is a professional
> build, and it has to be.  If you do it right you can spend that to do 1,000
> feet.
> Hank
>   On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:25:15 PM, Douglas Suhr <
> spiritofcalypso at gmail.com> wrote:
>   Wow! $125K for 2500 ' 3000 feet? That's some serious dollar-to-fathom
> value!
>
>
>  On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:14 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>   $125,000 is reachable for me. Sounds like this could be a reality.
>  Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
> Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
>  He said in an interview that Idabel cost $125,000.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Douglas Suhr <spiritofcalypso at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>   Scott, I have no experience with any large pressure chambers, but I am
> sure you are talking well into the thousands (perhaps $15,000 to $35,000)
> depending on how long it takes to set up the required tests (and perform
> them).
>
> I truly admire your ambition, but like Hank suggested, 1000 feet may be a
> better 2nd sub goal. If I were planning to go beyond 1000 feet, I would be
> looking to Nuytco, SeaMagine or Triton but of course cost is then a major
> issue again. Does anyone know about how much Karl spent building Idabel? ~
> Douglas S.
>
>
>  On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>   Any idea as to the cost of pressure testing that kind of pressure?
> Also, I am not a engineer, but am fairly good at designing things in my
> head. If I designed this in CAD, does psubs have a good way of sharing CAD
> files for who ever would like too look at my designs and bounce ideas off
> of?
> I would love for this project to be a way for psubs to increase overall
> psubs knowledge of cutting edge and affordable solutions for things like
> sonar and manipulator arms and things.
>   Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
>   Vance Bradley <VBra676539 at AOL.com> wrote:
> Maryland and California (Navy) and Texas (southwest research).
> Vance
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 8, 2014, at 7:14 PM, swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com> wrote:
>
>   So is the design of crush depth of 1750m and test to 1250m the idea?
> Next question is where can you find a pressure chamber that has 1670psi
> capability?
>  Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
> Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   Scott,
> in general people design their boats with a crush depth of
> twice their operating depth, then test them to 1.25 or 1.5 x
> there proposed maximum operating depth.
> So design to 2000 meters & test it to 1250 meters.
> Alan
>
>    *From:* swaters <swaters at waters-ks.com>
> *To:* personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:29 PM
> *Subject:* [PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine
>
>   I am playing with the idea of building another submarine. Here is what
> I am thinking.
> 1) This project needs to be as challenging as the same amount of
> difficulty as it was to build my first submarine
> 2) I want to have lots of bottom time with my K-350 to learn what needs to
> be improved on in design and ability.
> 3) Learn to use CAD
> 4) Project will take 5-7 years to complete
>
>  My initial goals are
> 1) Hold 3 people
> 2) Weigh 10,500lbs or less
> 3) Depth of 3,300 feet (1000m)
> 4) Have a very effective range of abilities such as a good manipulator arm
> and tooling
>  5) Have a wide veiwing maybe a acylic dome front
>
> Ok, shoot holes in the ideas. What will be the main challenges to
> overcome? What complications am I not considering?
>
>  Thanks,
> Scott Waters
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone
>
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