[PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors

Alan James via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Mon Aug 4 21:21:16 EDT 2014


Hi Cliff,
I've been happy that we've brought up a lot of issues on the thread & found some solutions
like the connectors James suggested.
I am feeling that our high amp draw problem is unique because we are going with Minnkotas.
They are designed as an adjunct to a petrol motor on an outboard boat, & if they went to 48V
or more to get the amps down, then the extra battery expense for the angler would cost them in sales.
As said to Jon, I don't think the connector is going to be any smaller if we go to 2 wires, because they tend
to pack out the cables to make them round & the connector heads are round. 
To me the ideal set up would be a hull penetrator with cable running to a female connector. All one piece.
Then a male connector that screws in to a pipe that in turn screws in to the stub of the motor. Alternative to a pipe
could be a T connection that takes the compensating air line.
The male connector would be wired direct on to the motor contacts.
If you want to go cheap, simple, small; then have blueglobe cable glands on the motor & hull & a piece
of appropriate cable between them.
Both Carsten & Emile have them on either side of the hull penetration as a bit of insurance.
Emile tested a Blueglobe to 3000psi before it started to extrude.
But that solution doesn't work for David & I.
I am away for a Month & won't be ordering anything till I get back. I think we aren't going to get any further
till we pull a motor apart & maybe work backwards from there.
Cheers Alan



________________________________
 From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors
 


Been buried with work in Australia.  I have not had time to properly follow all the email traffic on this thread.  I hope to have some time to digest the thread when I get back home in about two weeks.  I did have a quick look at the Subconn HPBH4M four pin connector that can handle 50 amps per pin as well as the note Alan posted on using two of these pins for a thermistor for motor temp.  While it would be nice to have a motor temperature sensor (3 wire RTD would be better than thermistor), for me this four pin connector is  just too large and bulky for this application.  I feel like we are trying to make this connector work just because we have a discount with SubConn connectors.  I am not sure this is the best connector for this application.  There are a lot of commercial thrusters operating at this current rating at higher voltages than 36v that don't look anywhere near the size of this connector.  I think we need to do a little
 research and look what commercial thruster suppliers for ROVs are using for DC wet matable connectors.  We need more options.  I agree the cost for these SubConn connectors looks good but only if it works and makes sense.

Trying to standardize a connector for these MK-101 is proving to be more of a challenge than I anticipated particularly given the motor is pressure compensated and the differential pressure across the connector is less than 5 psi.

Alan, I did see one of your notes brining up the issue of how do make up this bulk head connector on the MK-101 lower unit.  I have not done so yet on the MK-101 I have but it looks from the drawing like it would be easy to pull the rotor assembly from the stator by removing two screws from the prop end of the unit.  I was planning on machining a bushing that would screw into the support boss on the thruster and screw the bulkhead fitting into this.  The drawing looks like it would be easy to push the bulkhead connector pigtails into this bushing, connect the wires to the existing wires by soldering and use shrink tubing to insulate and reassembly the MK-101.  Won't know until I pull one apart.  

Has anyone disassembled a MK-101 lower unit? Is it as easy as it looks?  The wires connections on the MK 36V motor controller are just simple 1/4" spade connections.    I am wondering if they used the same spade connectors in the MK101 body?  

BTY, these spade connections on the MK-36V motor controller don't look like they could handle 50 amps but MK has been using these successfully for a long time.  Go figure?


Regards

Cliff


From: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors
 


Hi James,
they look great, all the reviews were really positive.
They were saying 10AWG max for the 4mm. But there is a 5.5mm version.
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2087
The Subconn high power connectors have 8AWG on the cable end, which is 3.2mm
diameter, so hopefully the 5.5mm will do. They are on ebay as polymax 5.5mm
gold connectors & ship from the USA.
I will try & find some locally.
Thanks,
Alan

Sent from my iPad



On 1/08/2014, at 11:01 pm, James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Hi Alan,
>Just a thought on the connector issue.  These connectors are really good.  80amps and they can be pulled apart.  They come in various sizes with a plastic shield.
> 
>http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__67__4mm_Gold_Connectors_10_pairs_20pc_.html
> 
> 
>
>
>
>On 1 August 2014 11:11, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>Hi David,
>>not sure if you got my last email as this is replying to my previous one. Strange things
>>have been happening lately with my emails.
>>Yes you can poke the cable through the blueglobe cable gland, connect the wires,
>>screw the blueglobe into it's fitting, then tighten the blueglobe around the cable.
>>I have a heap of them, but they are the M16. I think we might have to go with the M32
>>rather than M20, to have a chance of pushing the wires as well as the connector through 
>>the fittings opening, before screwing in the blueglobe, if you follow. There is the option to
>>buy them with an adapter.
>>I think Jon is verifying whether there is a 2 terminal 50 amp SubConn connector. A 2 wire version
>>would enable the wires + joiner to fit through easier, however I like the 4 wire version as you can 
>>use the other 2 wires for your thruster temperature monitoring.
>>we might be best to run the connector issues past Ken Martindale. He specializes in
>>
>>power electronics & has helped me in the past. If he's not listening in I could email him
>>before we go out & buy.
>>I had a look in an electrics store today & couldn't find a spade connector that could take 50 amps.
>>I had that problem with my last sub. Nothing is simple.
>>There are these gold plated high current cable joiners.
>>http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=HC4064
>>
>>They would probably have a lower profile than a spade connector of the same amp rating.
>>They are about an inch long so you would need around 6 inches of shaft to fit them in if you connected 4
>>wires & had them staggered. 
>>Alternatively you can slice & solder the wires together, but don't have the same convenience in swapping thrusters.
>>Trying to think all this through as I have $1000- worth of SubConn connectors that have been sitting in a box
>>for the last 3 years
>>Will see what Cliff makes of all of this. He is hanging out with Kangaroos somewhere in the Aussie outback 
>>at the moment.
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>>
>>To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
>>Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 7:52 PM
>>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] MK-101 Connectors
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Alan,
>>With the blue globe male fitting into the top of the shaft, there would be no twisting of wires based upon one of there videos I watched on how to install., I Thought that I could use a flat blade connector and sleeve receiver from the subconn, to mate to the MK wires and  I would not have to push the wires much into the shaft. Its amazing that this information takes so much energy to work out the design, You'd think subconn, has come across this question before since its what they do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>David Colombo
>>
>>804 College Ave
>>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>>(707) 536-1424
>>http://www.seaquestor.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>
>>David,
>>>I am a few emails behind here, but that is exactly the solution I was thinking of.
>>>One problem I envisaged with the short shaft section that comes out of the motor,
>>>is how do you attach the wires. Connections can get pretty bulky especially after
>>>insulating them. You can't stuff excess wire down in to the motor. Also you would
>>>have to have room to twist the wires in the opposite direction to that of the connector 
>>>prior to screwing in the connector. I am not sure if it is easy to pull the motor apart & 
>>>attach the wires from a connector straight to the motor. 
>>>The blue globe cable gland have an adaptor that you can screw the blue globes
>>>in to. If you used an adaptor you would create more room for pulling the wire
>>>connections through.
>>>If as I had suggested earlier, we had taylor made connectors with fittings on both
>>>ends, it could be problematic with large holes being bored through exostructure
>>>to get from hull to motor. I am thinking of situations like the R300 where the cable
>>>may need to penetrate a ballast tank.
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 30/07/2014, at 8:42 am, David Colombo via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Jon, I am having a short shaft machined to screw into the Mk treads, with a hollow bore, and a series of side taps that will be be used for temp sensors, and for compensating (oil or air not chosen yet). The mk wires will be attached to the end of the outlet side of the subcon connector and threaded thru a blueglobe seal. creating a pig tail assembly. I am not using the Mk shaft as the attachment point for the thrusters as I have a kort nozzle assembly for attachment to the sub body. Designed for ease of removal and bench inspection and optional compensation after future testing with the sensors on heat build up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Best Regards,
>>>>David Colombo
>>>>
>>>>804 College Ave
>>>>Santa Rosa, CA. 95404
>>>>(707) 536-1424
>>>>http://www.seaquestor.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>How will the penetrator connect to the MK housing?  Do you mean
      having subconn manufacture that end of the cable with threads to
      match the MK stub?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 7/29/2014 11:49 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>More connector thoughts.
>>>>>>Would we be better off having penetrators rather than connectors?
>>>>>>I believe they taylor make these connectors / penetrators, so why not have a
>>>>>>penetrator for the through hull & a penetrator on the other end of the cable for 
>>>>>>fitting straight on to the thruster. Perhaps a combination of penetrator &
>>>>>>connector to get through any exostructure that might be in the way.
>>>>>>I am not hot on this subject, just learning.
>>>>>>Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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