[PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

Sun Jan 26 18:52:13 EST 2014

Makes you wonder what that kit would cost these days. Those of us who went to the Vancouver conference saw the SU up on a shelf. Luckily, I got to see it some years earlier when the Jules habitat people had it down in the Keys. It's a great looking little sub up close, as one would expect from the kids at 216 East Esplanade. I'm thinking she might be a little tight for someone of my currently svelte build, so that would be something to ponder ahead of time. But very cool, simple to operate, simple to maintain. No flat ports though, Hank. It's built with two domes, front and top. And a bit of squirm room for the pilot to get from sitting upright to lying down, but not much more than that. It's a minimalist's dream, and was very light, too, as I recall. I'd take one, given the opportunity. It would be a blast to run in Florida.
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: hank pronk <hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Sun, Jan 26, 2014 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

I would think a sea urchin kit is a great idea, providing it has variable features.  The sub would need to appeal to both budget levels.  If it were designed so it could have low cost flat viewports or domes.  Perhaps different levels of completion for the people who can do their own machining.  The kit could accommodate different kinds of thruster packages again helping the low budget guy.  A lower budget  sub could get you into the water and as your finances allow it, the upgrades could be made because the sub is already  designed for the upgrades. 
Hank

  On Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:34:12 PM, Phil Nuytten <phil at philnuytten.com> wrote:

Yes, as Vance says we did work up a pneumatic manip for the original ‘Sea Urchin’ sub. The design criteria was: brute simple, three functions (extend/retract, swing 90 degrees each side/ jaw open/close) and, above all, CHEAP!! we used air cylinders, plastic tubing and three-way valves – one for each function. The valves exhausted back into the sub cabin. The system pressure was about 200 psi, as I recall, and the manip was operated independently from a scuba pony tank mounted outside for that purpose. System  pressure was kept at 200 psi over bottom, regardless of depth  by the first stage of a scuba regulator with the spring shimmed to 200 psi and the reg yoked to the tank in the usual fashion. Very simple system and it worked well – the exhaust into the cabin was so small as to cause only a slight increase in cabin pressure because the piston area is only a couple of square inches. Over pressure on a move into shallower water was avoided by a circle-seal non-return vent valve – same one used to suck a vacuum on the sub before diving. 
I have some pretty good pictures of the manip on Sea Urchin which I’ll try to dig up and post. Speaking of Sea Urchin, I have often toyed with the the idea of putting out a  Sea Urchin Kit – ala Kitteridge - but don’t know how much interest there would be.
Phil

From: Alan James 
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:54 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

Here is a great looking manipulator for .31c US.
Not sure what the postage is from Poland. I tried the "buy now" on another link but 
couldn't initiate a purchase. 
http://http//robosklep.eu/sklep/pl/p/Hydraulic-Arm/231

Alan

From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

Thanks Vance,
I'll have a look in to the pneumatic manipulator; however there are problems
that come to mind, like how do you stop the whole unit going in & out like a concertina
with water pressure changes.
Alan

From: "vbra676539 at aol.com" <vbra676539 at aol.com>
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org 
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

I can't answer, as I have precisely zero experience with pneumo manips. Nuytco did in fact cook one up for the Sea Urchin, which seemed to work okay, but I don't know anything about it. Sorry. That said, if it's cheap and it works (even if it's a pain in the ass) then it's worth having. Subs should be able to DO something, not just cruise around like an oversized camera housing with motors. I'd give serious consideration to the ball and socket arm, which functions adequately down to about 600 feet (according to the boys who have used them). We figure one would cost about $500-600 USD to machine, plus material and welding. A thousand bucks or a little more isn't bad, considering there are exactly three moving parts in the whole thing (as opposed to a hydraulic system which has about 3 moving parts to the running inch). 
Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators

One more question Vance & I'll leave you in peace
for a week.
For a small non commercial submersible operating to 500 ft
that has a very limited use for a manipulator other than it being there 
just in case we come across some item of value. Is a pneumatic manipulator a good
option? Air is already there & wouldn't be consumed much because
of the limited use. No noise & expensive space consuming hydraulic system.
And as you say there are options for lifting heavier items.
Thanks,
Alan

Sent from my iPad

On 25/01/2014, at 8:01 am, Joe Perkel <josephperkel at yahoo.com> wrote:

I particularly liked the PVC tube with the furled lift         bag and air source, now that's got real "get work done" utility.

It seems to me that a permanently mounted air         source terminating just aft of the claw is a natural companion set-up         for anyone with a manipulator on a PSUB. 

Joe

Sent         from Yahoo Mail for iPad

  From: Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com>;   
To: Personal   Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>;   
Subject: Re:   [PSUBS-MAILIST] Manipulators 
Sent: Fri, Jan 24, 2014 6:09:42 PM 

Thanks Vance,

that's         shed some light on the subject.

Alan

        From: Vance Bradley <Vbra676539 at AOL.com>
To: Personal         Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>         
Sent:         Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]         Manipulators

Alan,

I've seen the discussion. The smallest sub I know of with a         manipulator on board is the Deepworker. No exfra tanks there.         Metacentric vs CG works in all directions. Yes, you get movement and no         it's not a problem in my experience. I did operate the bigger subs but         also smaller ones, to include Aquarius, briefly in a DW, plus three         different K-boats, so speak with some experience. You put everything you         imagine on a small sub, you get a big sub. In any case, It's probably         best to think of a psub as a work in progress. Get the boat done, go         play, scratch head, get more work done, go play, scratch head......and         so it goes.

Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2014, at 3:20 AM, Alan James <alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com> wrote:

Vance,

a couple of people have mentioned lately the problem of the           shifting of

balance as you reach out with a manipulator & have talked           about countering it with

trim tanks. Is it a big deal if you go nose down, tail up?           Possibly more of a problem working on a 

vertical face than picking something up off the bottom. 

Some of our subs will be a lot smaller than the working subs you were in so the problem would be           

accentuated in our case.

Can you give us some of your experience on           this thanks & in your opinion is it worth messing

about with the trim while operating the           manipulator.

Alan

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