[PSUBS-MAILIST] Trim weight

swaters via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Fri Jun 13 10:09:15 EDT 2014


Jim,
I have my passengers go from back to front and honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. The egg carton idea is awesome if you make major changes to equipment or passengers. For example if I am going to put another person in. I have had 3 people in the sub and it is tight, but do able.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphonevia Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:James and Scott,
 
I had planned to have the weight tray inside the hull with a  screw drive such as on a garage door opener driven by an electric motor in order to adjust the trim.  I think Cliff has something similar on the R300.
 
However I've almost abandoned the movable tray idea in favor of something more like Scott's egg  carton.  Once the initial test dives establish the proper trim, there shouldn't be a lot of need to reposition the weight unless I add equipment.  I have tandem seating so [Human+Lead] in each seat should remain constant no matter the weight of the pilot or passenger.  In the K-350 where they could swap positions while underway, there might be more need to move the trim weights.   When you change passengers and/or pilots you might have to add or subtract weights, so it's more convenient to have the tray inside the hull.
 
Cheers,
Jim
 
In a message dated 6/13/2014 3:59:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
One thing i did think about being a possible idea is a moveable weight that can be cranked back and forth to adjust trim, a bit like you have on a plane.  Would be quite easy to do and would be handy for fine tuning trim.  Would need another through hull though.  Another winter modification maybe.
Regards
James

On 13 June 2014 03:15, swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
That is one way of fixing it. A bigger line would help prevent it some times, but not 100%. Dan's solution works well. It isn't a major problem with the K-350 design, just more a pain in the butt.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
OK thanks I see now.
So if the ballast tank air fill was on a T in  the ballast vent line, just below the 
ballast valve, that would blow the water out when surfacing & solve the problem?
Alan

From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy

Alan,
It normally happens after the first dive and water gets trapped in the line. The gravity pulling the water is counteracted on by the pressure in the MBT pussing the water up therefore the water is trapped not letting the air out of the MBT.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:


Dan / Scott,
I'm a bit puzzled by this.
There wouldn't be water in the line initially unless the valve exit was facing upward & rain 
or wave splash entered it. Does water enter in as the sub bobbles about & the ballast
air exit dips below the water? I guess then the water in the line would be held in place
by the small air pressure in the ballast tank, which wouldn't be enough      to force the water up & out, 
but is enough to hold it in position.
Alan

From: Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy

Scott, 
To clear the lines, I screwed a T onto each of the through hulls that feed air to the MBTs.  (on the open end under the MBTs)  Then I fashioned a piece of copper tubing that directs a stream of air right into the MBT vent line but not actually connected to it.   I put a restriction in the other end of the T to create enough back pressure so the tubing emits a pretty good blast of air directed at the vent port. 
 
To vent the MBTs, I open the conning tower vent valves then give the tank blow valve a turn till I see the water blow up and out the vents.  That seems to clear the lines and then it vents properly. 
 It's not a great fix but it works.
----- Original Message -----
From: swaters via Personal_Submersibles
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy

Dan,
I have the exact same problem with hydrolocking in the vents. I have to open the hatch and blow the water out with my mouth. Pain in the butt.
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

"Dan H. via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
If I were to do mine over again, I wouldn't vent it as it is in the plans. Instead of running piping from the MBTs to the conning tower, I would run linkage, and have the actual valves mounted on the MBT. 
 
Besides slow venting, my biggest problem is getting water in the piping that won't escape to let the air come through when venting.  A homemade mushroom valves made from bathroom sink drains controlled by linkage going to the conning tower, or anywhere easy to reach in the hull, would solve all the problems. 
 
My thought, Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: via Personal_Submersibles
To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Bouyancy

Scott, Alec, Vance, and all,
 
A 3/4" vent is going to be about 2.25 times as big in cross section as the 1/2" vent.  A 1" vent would be about 4 times as big as the 1/2". What are your thoughts/comments on 3/4", 1" or any other size vent vs another?
 
Thanks,
Jim 
 
In a message dated 6/11/2014 5:45:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, personal_submersibles at psubs.org writes:
James,
I totally agree with you on the 1/2 inch vents being way to small. Eventually I am going to switch mine out to 3/4"
Thanks,
Scott Waters




Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

James Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
Hi All,
 
A member has asked me to post a description of what was going on with bouyancy on my dive.  Which was as follows:
 
I'd asked the crane driver to be prepared for the first dive to hold me just below the surface as i was expecting to be a little out of control. 
 
At first, i got a bubble stuck in the forward tank. Ive put quite a large lip on the inside of the tanks in an attempt to cope            with Guernsey seas. I could see the bubble stuck through the forward dome and i squished myself right up into the front to try            and force it a bit more level so it could escape out of the vent.  It didnt make any difference and then all the lead i had inside, slid along the deck right to the back, making the entire situation worse.  Closed vents, blew mains and re-surfaced.
 
Next attempt, i got the bubble stuck in the aft tank. This wasnt as bad because the motor cut away allows air to escape so i got under a little further, but not enough.  I flooded the variable in an attempt to get under.  Still no good, so i asked the divers to shove on the back. This got the boat under, but then because of the total lack of air in any tanks, i sank to the bottom like a            stone.  Depth was 6m (20ft).  I expected to stop on the crane ropes, but the driver must have misunderstood me and before i knew it, the bottom was in sight and then i was down with a gentle bump. 
 
I sat for a bit talking to my brother on the radio and then shut            the variable vent and pumped a little air into the tank. I slowely started to rise.  Flooded it again and started to            sink.  Really quite straight forward. 
 
Blowing the VBT completely brought me up fairly quickly until i            seemed to be just awash with the surface.  Filling the mains then            brought me right out. 
 
I did several more test dives after that and as long as i evened out the venting of the main tanks to avoid the bubbles, i could dive without the divers assistance. 
 
I next got the boat neutral just off the bottom and then used the motors to drive up and down. I was not aware at the time that one motor was not working but it still seemed quite responsive and i could drive all the way up to the top or down to the bottom, stopping anywhere in between.
 
I need to add some extra vents to the main tanks to prevent the air pocket from occuring again, and also those half inch vents are far too small.  It takes forever to vent the main tanks.  Thats one for a winter modification.
 
I think that was it.
Regards
James
 
 


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