[PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets

Alan via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sun Oct 26 16:34:49 EDT 2014


When I was having lunch at Nuytco, I was told that
Hawke's flying sub went upside down on the surface
& couldn't be righted by the pilot. So something else to
consider.
Alan
Sent from my iPad

> On 27/10/2014, at 9:25 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Alan,
> Not much roll when you have a couple thousand pounds of ballast.  I light low volume sub might get some roll.
> It would be a bugger to get into at the surface though.  Maybe leave the rolling for airplanes.
> Hank--------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 10/26/14, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
> To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 4:14 PM
> 
> Hi
> Hank,Graham
> wanted to rotate his jets separately so he
> couldget a roll / flying
> type motion. So he would need to havetwo
> separate intakes that rotated identically to the vertical
> outletsto
> acheive that without getting the forward motion &
> addedinefficiencies.
> I wonder what sort of roll you could get with
> aconventional
> set up.You
> must have tried that Hank / Alec. Do you get much of a
> tiltwhen you
> have your vertical thrusters working in
> differentdirections?Alan
> 
>         From: hank pronk via
> Personal_Submersibles
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
> To: Personal
> Submersibles General Discussion
> <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
> 
> Sent: Monday,
> October 27, 2014 8:57 AM
>  Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
> 
> 
> 
> Alan,
> I did
> not think of that, but your right.  You could put a shroud
> over the inlet that is inline with the discharge so then the
> pump is pulling and pushing.
> Hank--------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 10/26/14, Alan James via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re:
> [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
>  To:
> "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 3:50 PM
> 
>  One
>  problem
> I can see is that if you have your Jet
> 
> suckingwater in
>  from the front & you
> pivot your outlets to get
> 
> verticalmotion,
>  then you will get forward
> movement from the suction
>  ofthe inlet
>  at a similar rate.Also I
>  did
> a bit of research on jet propulsion a couple of
>  weeks back&
>  what I read
> said it was inefficient compared to conventional
>  propulsion.Alan
>         
> From: Alec Smyth via
> 
> Personal_Submersibles
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>   To: Personal
>  Submersibles
> General Discussion
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
>   Sent: Monday, October
> 
> 27, 2014 8:11 AM
>   Subject: Re:
>  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
>   
> 
> 
>  I
> 
> don't think water jets are necessarily inefficient,
> but
>  if there is considerable piping around
> of the water before
>  it exits through the
> jets, that's what I was referring
>  to.
> However, even that was not meant as criticism, it is
>  just a normal trade-off. It is surely less
> efficient than a
>  conventional
> direct-coupled prop, but you also get
> 
> entanglement-resistance and maneuverability.  
> 
> 
>  On Sun,
> Oct 26, 2014 at
>  10:11 AM, Marc de Piolenc
> via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
>  There is
>  nothing inherently inefficient about
> waterjets. There are
>  commercial fast
> ferries using them and getting very good
> 
> thrust per horsepower - better than any supercavitating
>  propeller could do at the same speed,
> certainly.
> 
> 
> 
>  Lousy design will of course
> produce poor results, and jets
>  are much
> less amenable to rule-of-thumb construction than
>  open propellers. But whether it is "well
> known" or
>  not, good design will
> produce good results.
> 
> 
> 
>  Marc de Piolenc
> 
> 
> 
>  On 10/26/2014 8:41 PM, hank pronk via
> Personal_Submersibles
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Graham,
> 
>  In the world of marine jet drive it is well
> known that jet
>  drive takes two times the
> horse power to do the same job. 
>  Jet drive
> is well suited to a craft that needs a shallow
>  draft.  I think you will find it very
> complicated to
>  control and it will be very
> inefficient. I have been down
>  this road, I
> love the concept but abandoned it.  If you go
>  forward may I suggest you start with a jet
> drive.  It is
>  not a simple part to
> replicate.  The impeller tolerances
>  are
> critical.  I have a jet unit on the shelf I could
>  donate to your project.  The jet is from a
> jet ski. I would
>  consider a single rear
> motor on a full gimbal.
> 
> 
> Hank --------------------------------------------
> 
>  On Sun, 10/26/14, Graham
> Bayliss via Personal_Submersibles
>  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>    Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
> (no subject)
> 
>    To:
> "'Personal Submersibles General
> 
> Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> 
>    Received: Sunday, October
> 26, 2014, 7:39 AM
> 
> 
> 
>    #yiv9417249292
> 
>    #yiv9417249292 --
> 
> 
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> 
>    #yiv9417249292  Hi   I
> am near the end of my build
> 
>    of my k350 and have started to look at new
> designs I
>  am
> 
>    interested in building a flyer sub and have
> come up with
>  a
> 
>    design which will include a vectored motor
> drive this
>  will
> 
>    enable my flyer to hover and stop where
> ever I want. I
>  have
> 
>    designed a motor unit which will drive a
> fan type
>  propeller
> 
>    as an intake this will force water to the
> rear of the
>  unit
> 
>     where it is compressed  then it is
> forced into
>  ducting
> 
>    which will take  the water to four nozzles
> on the side
>  of
> 
>    the craft. The nozzles are able to turn
> three hundred
>  and
> 
>    sixty degrees  both side are independent
> of one another
>  so
> 
>    rolls will be achievable. The reason for a
> vectored motor
>  is
> 
>    you only need one motor source and one
> power pack this
>  will
> 
>    ease the maintenance and increase the
> enjoyment of
>  using
> 
>    your sub. I am interested in the clubs
> thought of this
>  kind
> 
>    of design.  Graham
> 
> 
> 
>   
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -- 
> 
> 
> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
> 
>  Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
> 
>  Translations (ProZ profile):
> http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
> 
>  Translations (BeWords
> profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
> 
>  Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
> 
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