[PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets

Sun Oct 26 16:48:55 EDT 2014

A sub like that is fine if you are launching off your yacht.  Should be called the turtle, bet it's fun to pilot
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 10/26/14, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 4:34 PM

 When I was having lunch
 at Nuytco, I was told that
 Hawke's
 flying sub went upside down on the surface
 & couldn't be righted by the pilot. So
 something else to
 consider.
 Alan
 Sent from my iPad

 > On 27/10/2014, at 9:25
 am, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > Alan,
 > Not much roll
 when you have a couple thousand pounds of ballast.  I light
 low volume sub might get some roll.
 > It
 would be a bugger to get into at the surface though.  Maybe
 leave the rolling for airplanes.
 >
 Hank--------------------------------------------
 > On Sun, 10/26/14, Alan James via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 > 
 > Subject:
 Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
 > To:
 "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 4:14
 PM
 > 
 > Hi
 > Hank,Graham
 > wanted to
 rotate his jets separately so he
 >
 couldget a roll / flying
 > type motion.
 So he would need to havetwo
 > separate
 intakes that rotated identically to the vertical
 > outletsto
 > acheive
 that without getting the forward motion &
 > addedinefficiencies.
 >
 I wonder what sort of roll you could get with
 > aconventional
 > set
 up.You
 > must have tried that Hank /
 Alec. Do you get much of a
 > tiltwhen
 you
 > have your vertical thrusters
 working in
 > differentdirections?Alan
 > 
 >     
    From: hank pronk via
 >
 Personal_Submersibles
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > 
 > To: Personal
 > Submersibles General Discussion
 > <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

 > 
 > Sent: Monday,
 > October 27, 2014 8:57 AM
 >  Subject: Re:
 >
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Alan,
 > I did
 > not think of that, but your right.  You
 could put a shroud
 > over the inlet that
 is inline with the discharge so then the
 > pump is pulling and pushing.
 >
 Hank--------------------------------------------
 > On Sun, 10/26/14, Alan James via
 > Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > wrote:
 > 
 >  Subject: Re:
 >
 [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
 >  To:
 > "Personal Submersibles General
 Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >  Received: Sunday, October 26, 2014, 3:50
 PM
 > 
 >  One
 >  problem
 > I can see
 is that if you have your Jet
 > 
 > suckingwater in
 > 
 from the front & you
 > pivot your
 outlets to get
 > 
 >
 verticalmotion,
 >  then you will get
 forward
 > movement from the suction
 >  ofthe inlet
 >  at a
 similar rate.Also I
 >  did
 > a bit of research on jet propulsion a
 couple of
 >  weeks back&
 >  what I read
 > said it
 was inefficient compared to conventional
 >  propulsion.Alan
 > 

 > From: Alec Smyth
 via
 > 
 >
 Personal_Submersibles
 >  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >   To: Personal
 >  Submersibles
 >
 General Discussion
 >  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > 
 >   Sent:
 Monday, October
 > 
 >
 27, 2014 8:11 AM
 >   Subject:
 Re:
 >  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Water jets
 >   
 > 
 > 
 >  I
 > 
 > don't think
 water jets are necessarily inefficient,
 >
 but
 >  if there is considerable piping
 around
 > of the water before
 >  it exits through the
 > jets, that's what I was referring
 >  to.
 > However, even
 that was not meant as criticism, it is
 >  just a normal trade-off. It is surely
 less
 > efficient than a
 >  conventional
 >
 direct-coupled prop, but you also get
 >

 > entanglement-resistance and
 maneuverability.  
 > 
 > 
 >  On Sun,
 > Oct 26, 2014 at
 > 
 10:11 AM, Marc de Piolenc
 > via
 Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >  wrote:
 >  There
 is
 >  nothing inherently inefficient
 about
 > waterjets. There are
 >  commercial fast
 >
 ferries using them and getting very good
 > 
 > thrust per
 horsepower - better than any supercavitating
 >  propeller could do at the same speed,
 > certainly.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  Lousy design will of course
 > produce poor results, and jets
 >  are much
 > less
 amenable to rule-of-thumb construction than
 >  open propellers. But whether it is
 "well
 > known" or
 >  not, good design will
 > produce good results.
 >

 > 
 > 
 >  Marc de Piolenc
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  On 10/26/2014 8:41 PM, hank pronk via
 > Personal_Submersibles
 >  wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  Graham,
 > 
 >  In the world of
 marine jet drive it is well
 > known that
 jet
 >  drive takes two times the
 > horse power to do the same job. 
 >  Jet drive
 > is well
 suited to a craft that needs a shallow
 >  draft.  I think you will find it
 very
 > complicated to
 >  control and it will be very
 > inefficient. I have been down
 >  this road, I
 > love
 the concept but abandoned it.  If you go
 >  forward may I suggest you start with a
 jet
 > drive.  It is
 >  not a simple part to
 > replicate.  The impeller tolerances
 >  are
 > critical.  I
 have a jet unit on the shelf I could
 > 
 donate to your project.  The jet is from a
 > jet ski. I would
 > 
 consider a single rear
 > motor on a full
 gimbal.
 > 
 > 
 > Hank
 --------------------------------------------
 > 
 >  On Sun, 10/26/14,
 Graham
 > Bayliss via
 Personal_Submersibles
 >  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 >  wrote:
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >    Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
 > (no subject)
 > 
 >    To:
 >
 "'Personal Submersibles General
 > 
 >
 Discussion'" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 > 
 >    Received:
 Sunday, October
 > 26, 2014, 7:39 AM
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >   
 #yiv9417249292
 > 
 > 
   #yiv9417249292 --
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >     _filtered #yiv9417249292
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 > 
 >    #yiv9417249292  Hi   I
 > am near the end of my build
 > 
 >    of my k350 and
 have started to look at new
 > designs
 I
 >  am
 > 
 >    interested in building a flyer sub
 and have
 > come up with
 >  a
 > 
 >    design which will include a vectored
 motor
 > drive this
 > 
 will
 > 
 >    enable
 my flyer to hover and stop where
 > ever I
 want. I
 >  have
 > 
 >    designed a motor unit which will
 drive a
 > fan type
 > 
 propeller
 > 
 >    as
 an intake this will force water to the
 >
 rear of the
 >  unit
 >

 >     where it is
 compressed  then it is
 > forced into
 >  ducting
 > 
 >    which will take  the water to four
 nozzles
 > on the side
 >  of
 > 
 >    the craft. The nozzles are able to
 turn
 > three hundred
 >  and
 > 
 >    sixty degrees  both side are
 independent
 > of one another
 >  so
 > 
 >    rolls will be achievable. The reason
 for a
 > vectored motor
 >  is
 > 
 >    you only need one motor source and
 one
 > power pack this
 >  will
 > 
 >    ease the maintenance and increase
 the
 > enjoyment of
 > 
 using
 > 
 >    your
 sub. I am interested in the clubs
 >
 thought of this
 >  kind
 > 
 >    of design. 
 Graham
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >   
 > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >   
 >
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 > 
 > 
 > 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > 
 > 
 Personal_Submersibles
 > mailing list
 > 
 >  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
 > 
 >  http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  -- 
 > 
 > 
 > Archivale catalog:
 http://www.archivale.com/catalog
 > 
 >  Polymath weblog:
 http://www.archivale.com/weblog
 > 
 >  Translations (ProZ
 profile):
 > http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
 > 
 >  Translations
 (BeWords
 > profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
 > 
 >  Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
 > 
 > 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > 
 > 
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 > mailing list
 > 
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 > 
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 >  Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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 >

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