[PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome

hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Mon Mar 2 17:51:49 EST 2015


Pete,
There are tools that can repair warped surfaces pretty easy.
Hank--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 3/2/15, Pete Niedermayr via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
 To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 Received: Monday, March 2, 2015, 5:21 PM
 
 Would there be an advantage making
 viewport frames oversized to reduce warping?
 
 Pete
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 2/28/15, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
  To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  Date: Saturday, February 28, 2015, 12:31 PM
  
  ThanksAlan
          From: James
 Frankland
  via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  To: Personal
  Submersibles General Discussion
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
  
  Sent: Sunday,
  March 1, 2015 1:17 AM
   Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
   
   
  Alan,The four
  protrusions are the holes that the four mounting bolts
  attach to.  They are inside the hull and attach to dogs
 on
  the inside of the reinforcing ring. almost identical to a
 k
  boat hatch dog setup.RegardsJames
  
  On Friday, 27 February 2015,
  Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  
  James,in your
  retaining ring photo, what are the four protrusions
  with holes in,
  on the inside of the ring for?Alan
      
     From: James Frankland
  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
   To: Personal
  Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
 
   Sent: Saturday,
  February 28, 2015 4:49 AM
   Subject: Re:
  [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
   
   
  It took me about 5 mins to do the drawing on
  MS paint! I think you mean something
  like Stachiw's book, page 524 fig 11.76.  Bottom
  drawing.  Probably will work just as well.  No machining
  required!
  
  
  On 27 February
  2015 at 15:35, Alec Smyth via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  Thanks, you went to some trouble making that
  drawing, but it certainly added clarity. In my case the
  outside wall of the acrylic is completely square and
  there's virtually no gap at all between seat and window,
  its literally a few thousandths. I could machine the seat
 to
  take an O-ring groove, as you did with the retaining ring.
  However, PVHO 2-2.11.1 says "As primary seals for
  standard window geometries shown in Figs. 2-2.1 through
  2-2.4, a soft elastomer compressed between the high
 pressure
  face of the window and retainer ring will be acceptable.
 The
  soft elastomeric seal may take the form of a flat gasket,
 or
  a seal ring with O, U, or X cross section." 
  Given its so easy to cut out a
  circular flat gasket, I think I'll try that first and
  see how it goes. If there are nuisance leaks, I could
  upgrade to an O ring by machining the appropriate groove,
  but I'll try the lazy approach first. These bolt-on
  window seats are nice in that they allow for later
  modification. 
  
  Best,
  Alec
  
  
  On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:56 AM, James
  Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  Hi Alec, The epdm
  gasket was really just to relieve stress on the seat of
 the
  dome.  This was with advice from the guy who built the
  Canary island subs who came to visit me.  Although of
  course it should provide sealing at higher pressure. 
   Emile made the dome and mounting
  ring and suggested I would need another seal for low
  pressure.  So, I made the low pressure seal an O ring
  sitting in a machined groove in the retaining ring.  
   See hastily drawn picture. 
   The gap where the O ring sits is
  nowhere near as severe as it looks in the picture, which
 is
  of course not to scale or anything.   I would love to
 say
  it was carefully engineered, but im afraid I just winged
 it
  a bit.  To start with the O ring groove was just a
  chamfer.  This didn't work as I couldn't get the O
  ring to stay in.  Then I machined it for a very small O
  ring.  Couldn't get it in.  Eventually, I got a groove
  and O ring combination that seemed to work.  There is
 lots
  of silicone grease on all surfaces as well.  It doesn't
  leak.  RegardsJames 
  ​  
  
  ​
  On 27 February 2015 at 14:05, Alec Smyth
  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  Hi James,
  That's some good looking
  hardware! Just a question if I may. Do you have just the
  gasket for making a seal, or is there an O-ring as
  well? 
  My project sub
  has a bow dome seated in an aluminum ring. Currently the
  window is just sitting on a gasket with no O-ring, but
  I'm wondering whether to switch to an O ring. The window
  seat is 90 degrees square, so one possibility would be to
  chamfer the edge of the acrylic and put an O ring in the
  angle. That is what I did on Snoopy's hatch dome, it
  worked well and is a solution that doesn't require any
  changes to the seat. The other option is to put an O ring
 at
  the top of the acrylic and squeeze it with the retaining
  ring, but that would mean machining a chamfer into the
 seat,
  and would require machinery larger than what I have here.
 Or
  of course I could do nothing and see if it seals well with
  just an EPDM gasket.
  
  Thanks,
  Alec
  On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:40 AM, James
  Frankland via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  ​Hi Hank.   Yes,
  agreed, my dome does sit on a gasket.  The actual edge of
  the acrylic itself sits on a 1mm epdm gasket that sits
 onto
  the aluminium ring.  That ring bolts to the main
  reinforcing ring and has an o ring like you say.  Maybe
  this does give it a little bit of
  leeway. My dome is off at the moment,
  so I will have a look at the weekend and see if I can see
  any distortion on the reinforcing ring.  Im pretty sure
  there is none, or none that is detectable by the naked
  eye\straight ruler.  The alu ring seems to fis to it
  perfectly.   I suppose the best
  option is like you say, get it machined after welding. 
 You
  wont have to worry at all then. 
  ​   
  On 27 February 2015 at 13:23, hank pronk
  via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  
  James,
  
  I am just assuming it needs to be perfect ? and I can not
  imagine that it will not warp at least a small amount.  I
  am not experienced with how such heavy material will
 react.
  Your dome sits on a gasket witch may give you some
  forgiveness. Maybe Emile can comment having done this
  also.
  
  Hank--------------------------------------------
  
  On Fri, 2/27/15, James Frankland via
  Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  wrote:
  
  
  
   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
  
   To: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
   Received: Friday, February 27, 2015, 7:28 AM
  
  
  
   Do
  
   you need to go to all that trouble?  When I did mine,
  the
  
   reinforcing ring was milled flat on the seating surface
  and
  
   I just pre-heated it and welded it in.  It was so big
  I
  
   don't think there was any distortion and it
  doesn't
  
   leak. Just thinking of saving you
  
   what sounds like an expensive job.
  
   On 27 February 2015 at
  
   11:45, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
   wrote:
  
   James,
  
  
  
   I am amazed at the equipment some of the big shops have.
  A
  
   vertical mill is probably the way to go.  I am checking
  out
  
   another option also.  There are machines made to
  machine
  
   pipe flanges that clamp on and are portable.  There is
  a
  
   company in Calgary that specializes in this. I am just
  not
  
   sure yet what the accuracy is yet.  It is nice that I
  live
  
   only 3 hr from a big oil town that caters to the oil
  
   industry.  You can tell that oil is low, and the shops
  are
  
   slower.  I ordered the ring on a Friday and it was
  ready
  
   Monday.
  
  
  
   Hank    --------------------------------------------
  
  
  
   On Fri, 2/27/15, James Frankland via
  Personal_Submersibles
  
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
   wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
    Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gamma bow dome
  
  
  
    To: "Personal Submersibles General
  Discussion"
  
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  
  
    Received: Friday, February 27, 2015, 4:08 AM
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
    Hi hank,Sounds like
  
  
  
    it will be a good
  
   modification.  How are they going to
  
  
  
    machine the ring?  Some sort of vertical
  
  
  
    mill?RegardsJames
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
    On Friday, 27 February 2015, hank pronk via
  
  
  
    Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
  
  
  
    wrote:
  
  
  
    Today I
  
  
  
    officially took the plunge and removed the forward
  
   ballast
  
  
  
    tank to install my new bow dome.  After much agony I
  
  
  
    decided to make the change.  I am not enjoying the
  sub
  
  
  
    because the forward window arrangement is not ideal
  for
  
  
  
    lakes with marginal visibility.  I went to the big
  
   city
  
  
  
    yesterday and picked up the reinforcing ring and
  should
  
   have
  
  
  
    it fitted in a couple of days.  I am bringing in a
  
   pressure
  
  
  
    welder to weld the ring and then the sub is off to
  the
  
   big
  
  
  
    city to machine the ring.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
    Hank
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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