[PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage

Mon Feb 8 15:16:28 EST 2016

Regarding the Titanic this rules apply:

http://www.noaa.gov/titanic/noaasrole.html
<http://www.noaa.gov/titanic/noaasrole.html>

As you can see they apply for you as US people - but not for me.

Titanic is in international waters - the owners takes no salvage operation 
for many years.

To international laws she is free.

But not for national rules for US citens and Canada and Great Britain which 
sign a protection act together.

If a US Citens blow her up to search for the diamonds he will get in jail.

If a German blow her up - maybe nothimg will happen. :-0 (Maybe as long as 
he not sail to the US..)

Same is here with the Estonia wreck in the Baltic Sea.

Diving is prohibided there. But only for Fins, Swedish, Russian, Estland 
and so on divers.

Only for people of staates sign a national protection act togehter ..

That the spains gets there gold back has maybe only the reason that the 
ship was a "man of war" a warship.

Seems warshp which sunk with there flag on it - are still goverment 
property.

The German Aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin for example - is NOT belong to 
the German Goverment.

An AIRCRAFT CARRIER of over 200 meter.

But he was not finished and never a warship and he hands obver to the 
russian end of the war which scuttled him after the as target.

And any time a owner scuttled his ship - he lost the right on it - ever if 
it s a warship. But only in internatonal waters. 

In national waters the rules are sometimes very different. National water 
in case of wrecks means 12 sm. Not 200 sm.

The 200sm line is on international rules apply to fishery and natural 
treasues like oil. But not to wrecks.

But the Aircraft Carrer is just outside the polish nationjal waters. So in 
general free. But diving here needs a permission from the polish goverment 
! The argument is that there is a hell of ammunition and just 2sm away is 
an big oil rigg. So it if forbitten there to dive without permission 
because of "National security."

But at the end a wreck is may on ownership by the goverment with the bigger 
warship still aflot close by.. :-0

vbr Carsten

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Vessel salvage

Datum: 2016-02-08T20:39:15+0100

Von: "T Novak via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

An: "'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'" 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>

Good question, Hank.

Wrecks are often owned by individuals or corporations.  Military wrecks are 
owned in perpetuity by the original country of flag.  Unless the owner 
publicly relinquishes ownership, an abandoned vessel is still owned by the 
original owner and is not finders keepers.  Maritime law is very specific 
in that someone who salvages an abandoned vessel may earn a reward for 
their efforts based on the risks taken, but the vessel and all fittings and 
cargo are still owned by the original vessel owner.  Wreckers don't have a 
lot of legal footing these days.  All that 1700's Spanish gold all over the 
east coast still really belongs to Spain, but they have only just now 
started chasing their rights on more recent wrecks. When you find that 
Spanish Galleon wrecked in Lake Minnewanka you better get a lawyer.

The Titanic requires a permit from someone and would likely only allow 
looking but no touching, and certainly no taking.

Tim

Here is BC any vessel on the bottom for two years or more is owned by the 
province.

From: Personal_Submersibles 
[mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of hank pronk 
via Personal_Submersibles
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:44 AM
To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion 
<personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software

Scott,

I bet it is well protected, I am sure a sub with no manipulators could get 
approval.  Who decides anyways? the people that took what they want 
already? 

Hank

On Monday, February 8, 2016 11:36 AM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > 
wrote:

I actually think the RMS Titanic is at 12,500 fsw and I believe has pretty 
strict rules and permits required to dive it.

-Scott Waters 

  -------- Original Message --------
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] STS Sub Design Software
  From: "Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles"
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  >
  Date: Mon, February 08, 2016 11:18 am
  To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  >

  Titanic is sitting at 8000 fsw. That's a tight payload budget to design
  within without a foam block or more exotic hull material.

  Sean

  On February 8, 2016 8:38:39 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
  <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> 
  > wrote:

   If I have a good year this year, I hope to build a Titanic capable sub
   exactly the same as what I am building now but much heavier of coarse.  
   I will have EE weld it together and I will have the machining done for
   me also.

   Hank

   On Monday, February 8, 2016 7:30 AM, Sean ! T. Stevenson via
   Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
   <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

   Funny, I could say the same thing about your budget.  ;-)

   Sean

   On February 8, 2016 6:27:59 AM MST, hank pronk via Personal_Submersibles
   <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
   <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > wrote:

    Hi Sean,

    Thank you for your efforts with your programs, they have been a huge
    help to me.   If I had your knowledge, I would be looking out my  port
    at the Titanic.

    Hank

    On Saturday, February 6, 2016 7:03 ! AM, Jon Wallace via
    Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
    <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org> > w! rote:

    The latest version of the STS Sub Design Software written by Sean
    Stevenson is up on the web site.

    WWW.PSUBS.ORG <http://www.psubs.org/> -> Resources & Reference ->
    Design Tools -> Calculators &
    Data Sheets

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