[PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34

Alan via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Wed Aug 9 23:02:28 EDT 2017


Thanks River,
Cliff & I have one person subs so Peltiers could end up our 
preferred option, but may well prove uneconomical in power
to make a difference in a larger sub. Also as you point out,
contaminants from a refrigeration unit aren't good, especially
in a smaller enclosure.
Just found my peltier, & wow it gets hot quick, & the cooling
ability is relative to how well you can get rid of that heat.
It's 1&1/2" square & is 70W. So for 6 square inches of area you 
get 1,120W of heating / cooling at $3- each.
http://www.gearbest.com/other-accessories/pp_142071.html?vip=766773&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIurqE_cXL1QIVR3S9Ch1pqg9VEAAYAiAAEgLN3vD_BwE
Alan

Sent from my iPad

> On 10/08/2017, at 2:12 PM, River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> 
> Alan,
> Commercial airliners use air as the working fluid in their refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Having a noxious chemical refrigerant leak into an enclosed space doesn't seem too appealing to me. I can't say I've browsed the section on air conditioning in ABS or GL, but prohibition of onboard refrigerant wouldn't surprise me.
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to
>>         personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>    1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>>       (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800
>> From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
>>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50,
>>         Issue 19
>> Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2 at archivale.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> Right - that will work fine with a metal hull!
>> 
>> Best,
>> Marc
>> 
>> On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> > Mark,
>> > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with
>> > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the surrounding
>> > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my suggestion
>> > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come back in to
>> > the hull.
>> > Alan
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers. That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it were mine.
>> >>
>> >> Marc
>> >>
>> >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
>> >>> Hi Alan,
>> >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although wonderfully simple in operation.
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> Steve
>> >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" <personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>     Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater.
>> >>>     In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive heating!
>> >>>     This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential.
>> >>>     I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull & surround
>> >>>     them
>> >>>     with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull radiating back
>> >>>     the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the water.
>> >>>     Another bunny trail to investigate.
>> >>>     Cheers Alan
>> >>>     Sent from my iPad
>> >>>     On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>     Mike,
>> >>>>     the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor
>> >>>>     system, but Cliff
>> >>>>     & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by
>> >>>>     reversing polarity.
>> >>>>     I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with
>> >>>>     resistive coils;
>> >>>>     probably poor!  Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass
>> >>>>     outer & dig back
>> >>>>     the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the
>> >>>>     reverse side of
>> >>>>     the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy
>> >>>>     if he put some
>> >>>>     shark gills in it for water ingress.
>> >>>>     Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of
>> >>>>     heat in.
>> >>>>     We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada.
>> >>>>     Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air
>> >>>>     conditioner to cool
>> >>>>     the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that
>> >>>>     benefit would
>> >>>>     last being towed out that distance.
>> >>>>     Cheers Alan
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>     Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the
>> >>>>>     small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys,
>> >>>>>     aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an
>> >>>>>     inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling
>> >>>>>     versus DC current used. Mike Patterson
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Sent from my Samsung device
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     -------- Original message --------
>> >>>>>     From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> >>>>>     To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to
>> >>>>>     personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>>>>     http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>>>>     personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>>>>     personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >>>>>     than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Today's Topics:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>        1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>           (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles)
>> >>>>>        2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>           (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Message: 1
>> >>>>>     Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500
>> >>>>>     From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>     Message-ID:
>> >>>>>     <CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg at mail.gmail.com
>> >>>>>     <mailto:CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg at mail.gmail.com>>
>> >>>>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
>> >>>>>     viewport.  I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to
>> >>>>>     taking off
>> >>>>>     but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the
>> >>>>>     dive, this
>> >>>>>     treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.     The other
>> >>>>>     issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became
>> >>>>>     soaked with
>> >>>>>     sweat.  As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation
>> >>>>>     off after
>> >>>>>     the two hour tow to the dive site.  Action items:  Have small
>> >>>>>     bottle of
>> >>>>>     Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration dives.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.  I have quite a
>> >>>>>     bit of
>> >>>>>     battery capacity so this could work.  Unfortunately, mounting on
>> >>>>>     hull won't
>> >>>>>     work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the
>> >>>>>     hull so I
>> >>>>>     don't have a cool surface to mount on.  I do have a pair of
>> >>>>>     plugged off
>> >>>>>     ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to
>> >>>>>     cooling water
>> >>>>>     source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.  Pushing this
>> >>>>>     water
>> >>>>>     through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled
>> >>>>>     motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not
>> >>>>>     humidity.   At
>> >>>>>     Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive
>> >>>>>     was about
>> >>>>>     87F so this would not have helped all that much.  A small DC AC
>> >>>>>     system that
>> >>>>>     controlled both temperature and humidity would be better.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
>> >>>>>     with how
>> >>>>>     this worked.  I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4"
>> >>>>>     SS tubing
>> >>>>>     that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving regulator
>> >>>>>     (thanks Hugh)  under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not
>> >>>>>     sure if a
>> >>>>>     single regulator would work or if I would need one for each
>> >>>>>     thruster but it
>> >>>>>     looks like one was adequate.  I have had two deep dives with the
>> >>>>>     arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no
>> >>>>>     issues with
>> >>>>>     water in the thrusters.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Best Regards
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Cliff
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>>     personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     > Thanks Cliff,
>> >>>>>     > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the entr?e!
>> >>>>>     > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!
>> >>>>>     > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
>> >>>>>     elements &
>> >>>>>     > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25% the
>> >>>>>     > efficiency
>> >>>>>     > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by
>> >>>>>     reversing
>> >>>>>     > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier
>> >>>>>     elements stuck to
>> >>>>>     > the hull
>> >>>>>     > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what
>> >>>>>     > batteries you
>> >>>>>     > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will
>> >>>>>     make energy
>> >>>>>     > expenditure less of an issue!
>> >>>>>     > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator?
>> >>>>>     Couldn't see
>> >>>>>     > any
>> >>>>>     > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't
>> >>>>>     building up too
>> >>>>>     > much
>> >>>>>     > when exhausting.
>> >>>>>     > Cheers Alan
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>>     > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
>> >>>>>     Regatta.  The
>> >>>>>     > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3
>> >>>>>     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw
>> >>>>>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw> and the second is a
>> >>>>>     night
>> >>>>>     > dive in front of Doug's house
>> >>>>>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI
>> >>>>>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI>.
>> >>>>>     > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta.
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > Regards
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > Cliff
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles <
>> >>>>>     > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on
>> >>>>>     the 4-day
>> >>>>>     >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st,
>> >>>>>     August
>> >>>>>     >> 1-3).
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival /
>> >>>>>     setup day
>> >>>>>     >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
>> >>>>>     unfortunate
>> >>>>>     >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
>> >>>>>     >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had
>> >>>>>     enough time
>> >>>>>     >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
>> >>>>>     diving.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
>> >>>>>     >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired)
>> >>>>>     saturation diver
>> >>>>>     >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
>> >>>>>     >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his
>> >>>>>     knowledge and
>> >>>>>     >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
>> >>>>>     chatted
>> >>>>>     >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan
>> >>>>>     manned the
>> >>>>>     >> tow line and helped with comms.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
>> >>>>>     >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
>> >>>>>     >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I
>> >>>>>     think
>> >>>>>     >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is
>> >>>>>     one of
>> >>>>>     >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a
>> >>>>>     gift for
>> >>>>>     >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
>> >>>>>     >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone
>> >>>>>     who'd like
>> >>>>>     >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I
>> >>>>>     learned more
>> >>>>>     >> than I can remember last week.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing
>> >>>>>     whatever
>> >>>>>     >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the
>> >>>>>     canal
>> >>>>>     >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was
>> >>>>>     getting
>> >>>>>     >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was
>> >>>>>     able to
>> >>>>>     >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
>> >>>>>     >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time,
>> >>>>>     though we did
>> >>>>>     >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a
>> >>>>>     spot about
>> >>>>>     >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
>> >>>>>     the tow
>> >>>>>     >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we
>> >>>>>     decided that
>> >>>>>     >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine
>> >>>>>     radio to OTS
>> >>>>>     >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
>> >>>>>     >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the
>> >>>>>     Whaler!
>> >>>>>     >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but
>> >>>>>     wow did
>> >>>>>     >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff
>> >>>>>     spent about
>> >>>>>     >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
>> >>>>>     >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the
>> >>>>>     time Cliff
>> >>>>>     >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood
>> >>>>>     at 4.5
>> >>>>>     >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
>> >>>>>     >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning
>> >>>>>     I think
>> >>>>>     >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
>> >>>>>     >> accomplishment with the mission.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need
>> >>>>>     better tow
>> >>>>>     >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release).
>> >>>>>     Our boat
>> >>>>>     >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves
>> >>>>>     isn't so
>> >>>>>     >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line
>> >>>>>     needs to
>> >>>>>     >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow
>> >>>>>     vessel
>> >>>>>     >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking
>> >>>>>     and then
>> >>>>>     >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for
>> >>>>>     boat and
>> >>>>>     >> sub to track straight).
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the
>> >>>>>     waves
>> >>>>>     >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation
>> >>>>>     like this
>> >>>>>     >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At
>> >>>>>     dinner,
>> >>>>>     >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel
>> >>>>>     that can
>> >>>>>     >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time
>> >>>>>     consuming tow
>> >>>>>     >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
>> >>>>>     >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
>> >>>>>     >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan
>> >>>>>     will lend
>> >>>>>     >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>     >>
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     >
>> >>>>>     -------------- next part --------------
>> >>>>>     An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >>>>>     URL:
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20170809/ea2b1476/attachment-0001.html>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Message: 2
>> >>>>>     Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC)
>> >>>>>     From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>     Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com
>> >>>>>     <mailto:1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com>>
>> >>>>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Hi Cliff,
>> >>>>>     Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos.
>> >>>>>     With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to
>> >>>>>     blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super
>> >>>>>     cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F
>> >>>>>     and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for
>> >>>>>     quite some time.
>> >>>>>     Greg C      From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
>> >>>>>     Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM
>> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
>> >>>>>     viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to
>> >>>>>     taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration
>> >>>>>     of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more
>> >>>>>     soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on
>> >>>>>     board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not
>> >>>>>     good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to
>> >>>>>     the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on
>> >>>>>     board and more towels for future long duration dives.?
>> >>>>>     Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a
>> >>>>>     bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately,
>> >>>>>     mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under
>> >>>>>     the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to
>> >>>>>     mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of
>> >>>>>     the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I
>> >>>>>     installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water
>> >>>>>     through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled
>> >>>>>     motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but
>> >>>>>     not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at
>> >>>>>     the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped
>> >>>>>     all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both
>> >>>>>     temperature and humidity would be better.
>> >>>>>     On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
>> >>>>>     with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected
>> >>>>>     to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure
>> >>>>>     reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just
>> >>>>>     aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work
>> >>>>>     or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one
>> >>>>>     was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement,
>> >>>>>     one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water
>> >>>>>     in the thrusters.
>> >>>>>     Best Regards
>> >>>>>     Cliff
>> >>>>>     On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this
>> >>>>>     is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down
>> >>>>>     there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
>> >>>>>     elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have
>> >>>>>     only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but
>> >>>>>     are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A
>> >>>>>     few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air
>> >>>>>     channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what
>> >>>>>     batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the
>> >>>>>     way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all
>> >>>>>     4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air
>> >>>>>     coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up
>> >>>>>     too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>     On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
>> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
>> >>>>>     Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug
>> >>>>>     3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second is
>> >>>>>     a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube.
>> >>>>>     com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive
>> >>>>>     video of the Regatta.
>> >>>>>     Regards
>> >>>>>     Cliff
>> >>>>>     On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the
>> >>>>>     4-day
>> >>>>>     sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st, August
>> >>>>>     1-3).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival / setup day
>> >>>>>     with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
>> >>>>>     unfortunate
>> >>>>>     that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our hands
>> >>>>>     full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough time
>> >>>>>     to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
>> >>>>>     diving.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick Maxwell,
>> >>>>>     River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation
>> >>>>>     diver
>> >>>>>     and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on this
>> >>>>>     operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his knowledge and
>> >>>>>     extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
>> >>>>>     chatted
>> >>>>>     with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned the
>> >>>>>     tow line and helped with comms.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
>> >>>>>     Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they were
>> >>>>>     both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I think
>> >>>>>     River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is one of
>> >>>>>     the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift for
>> >>>>>     the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
>> >>>>>     willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd like
>> >>>>>     to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned
>> >>>>>     more
>> >>>>>     than I can remember last week.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing whatever
>> >>>>>     kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the canal
>> >>>>>     (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was getting
>> >>>>>     the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was able to
>> >>>>>     tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph). We
>> >>>>>     were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though
>> >>>>>     we did
>> >>>>>     suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot
>> >>>>>     about
>> >>>>>     100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
>> >>>>>     the tow
>> >>>>>     line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided that
>> >>>>>     we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio
>> >>>>>     to OTS
>> >>>>>     and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared the
>> >>>>>     bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the Whaler!
>> >>>>>     His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow did
>> >>>>>     it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent
>> >>>>>     about
>> >>>>>     an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering about,
>> >>>>>     testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time Cliff
>> >>>>>     surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood at 4.5
>> >>>>>     / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
>> >>>>>     flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I
>> >>>>>     think
>> >>>>>     we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
>> >>>>>     accomplishment with the mission.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better tow
>> >>>>>     equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our boat
>> >>>>>     REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves isn't so
>> >>>>>     much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line needs to
>> >>>>>     be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow vessel
>> >>>>>     and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and then
>> >>>>>     jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat and
>> >>>>>     sub to track straight).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the waves
>> >>>>>     everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like
>> >>>>>     this
>> >>>>>     is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At dinner,
>> >>>>>     one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel that can
>> >>>>>     carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time consuming tow
>> >>>>>     out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his support
>> >>>>>     vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
>> >>>>>     logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will lend
>> >>>>>     its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or> g
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib les
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_ submersibles
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     |  | Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>  |
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     -------------- next part --------------
>> >>>>>     An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >>>>>     URL:
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20170809/1374ba08/attachment.html>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>     End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>> >>>>>     *****************************************************
>> >>>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>>     _______________________________________________
>> >>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
>> >>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>> >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>> >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>> >> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>> >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> >> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> >
>> 
>> --
>> Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog
>> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
>> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
>> Translations (BeWords profile): http://www.bewords.com/Marc-dePiolenc
>> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
>> http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34
>> *****************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -River J. Dolfi
> 
> 412-997-2526
> rdolfi7 at gmail.com
> rwd5301 at psu.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.whoweb.com/pipermail/personal_submersibles/attachments/20170810/ba6c2774/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Personal_Submersibles mailing list