[PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34

River Dolfi via Personal_Submersibles personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Wed Aug 9 22:12:14 EDT 2017


Alan,
Commercial airliners use air as the working fluid in their refrigeration
and air conditioning systems. Having a noxious chemical refrigerant leak
into an enclosed space doesn't seem too appealing to me. I can't say I've
browsed the section on air conditioning in ABS or GL, but prohibition of
onboard refrigerant wouldn't surprise me.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 10:00 PM, via Personal_Submersibles <
personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
>       (Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 10:01:02 +0800
> From: Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles
>         <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Alan via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50,
>         Issue 19
> Message-ID: <53ff605b-589f-255d-1a5a-f13ab724c7e2 at archivale.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Right - that will work fine with a metal hull!
>
> Best,
> Marc
>
> On 8/10/2017 9:33 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> > Mark,
> > you don't need any through hulls, just glue them on to your hull with
> > a heat transfer compound. The heat will go through the hull to the
> surrounding
> > water but will also radiate laterally through the metal; hence my
> suggestion
> > to insulate around the area a bit so that the cold or heat can't come
> back in to
> > the hull.
> > Alan
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 10/08/2017, at 1:19 PM, Marc de Piolenc via Personal_Submersibles <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Peltier modules ARE more efficient than resistive heaters because they
> are true heat pumps - they don't supply (all) the heat that they emit on
> the hot side. In fact, they are more efficient as heaters than as coolers.
> That said, using them is a lot more difficult than using resistors, because
> they have to be connected on one side to a heat source and on the other to
> the area you want heated. In a sub, that sounds like you need another
> penetration in your pressure hull, which I would not be interested in if it
> were mine.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >>
> >>> On 8/10/2017 8:14 AM, Stephen Fordyce via Personal_Submersibles wrote:
> >>> Hi Alan,
> >>> Resistive heating being about as close as you can get to 100%, I would
> be sceptical about that. I've experimented with Peltier modules for gas
> cooling and they were quite disappointing in performance, although
> wonderfully simple in operation.
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Steve
> >>> On 10 Aug 2017 8:33 am, "Alan via Personal_Submersibles" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> wrote:
> >>>     Just did some Googling on the Peltier as a heater.
> >>>     In an experiment I saw it was more efficient than resistive
> heating!
> >>>     This depends to an extent on the ambient heat differential.
> >>>     I would imagine you would need to attach them to the hull &
> surround
> >>>     them
> >>>     with an insulating material to stop the metal of the hull
> radiating back
> >>>     the cold or heat produced, & force it to transfer it all to the
> water.
> >>>     Another bunny trail to investigate.
> >>>     Cheers Alan
> >>>     Sent from my iPad
> >>>     On 10/08/2017, at 9:18 AM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>     Mike,
> >>>>     the peltier is only 1/4 to 1/3 as efficient as a compressor
> >>>>     system, but Cliff
> >>>>     & I have very little spare room. They serve as heaters by
> >>>>     reversing polarity.
> >>>>     I am not sure of their efficiency as heaters compared with
> >>>>     resistive coils;
> >>>>     probably poor!  Cliff would have to cut a hole in his fibreglass
> >>>>     outer & dig back
> >>>>     the syntactic foam to the pressure hull to get cooling on the
> >>>>     reverse side of
> >>>>     the peltier or compressor air conditioning unit. Could look sexy
> >>>>     if he put some
> >>>>     shark gills in it for water ingress.
> >>>>     Cliff didn't have a cover on the dome, & that would let a lot of
> >>>>     heat in.
> >>>>     We had a wet towel on Snoopy last time at Islamorada.
> >>>>     Have heard that people like Nuytco use a shore based air
> >>>>     conditioner to cool
> >>>>     the sub down prior to a dive; but I don't know how long that
> >>>>     benefit would
> >>>>     last being towed out that distance.
> >>>>     Cheers Alan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>     Sent from my iPad
> >>>>
> >>>>     On 10/08/2017, at 6:25 AM, peaceroom via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>     Reference,summer submarine cooling. A scaled down version of the
> >>>>>     small cooler with ice and DC fan, similar to the one in Sportys,
> >>>>>     aviation supplies is what a lot of planes use. Just an
> >>>>>     inexpensive idea. Peltier coolers provide very little cooling
> >>>>>     versus DC current used. Mike Patterson
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Sent from my Samsung device
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     -------- Original message --------
> >>>>>     From: via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     Date: 8/9/17 11:46 AM (GMT-05:00)
> >>>>>     To: personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>     Subject: Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Send Personal_Submersibles mailing list submissions to
> >>>>>     personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>>>>     http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>     <http://www.whoweb.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_
> submersibles>
> >>>>>     or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>>>>     personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles-request at psubs.org>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>>>>     personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles-owner at psubs.org>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
> specific
> >>>>>     than "Re: Contents of Personal_Submersibles digest..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Today's Topics:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>        1. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
> >>>>>           (Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles)
> >>>>>        2. Re: Islamorada Trip Report...
> >>>>>           (james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Message: 1
> >>>>>     Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0500
> >>>>>     From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
> >>>>>     Message-ID:
> >>>>>     <CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVoQ9cg@
> mail.gmail.com
> >>>>>     <mailto:CAK4DN4DuhY87_6v+19RNb-6x2d9fKdaCW1uND2psz=ncVo
> Q9cg at mail.gmail.com>>
> >>>>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
> >>>>>     viewport.  I used Dove soap on the viewport interior prior to
> >>>>>     taking off
> >>>>>     but because of the humidity , temperature and duration of the
> >>>>>     dive, this
> >>>>>     treatment did not last and I did not have more soap on board.
>  The other
> >>>>>     issue is I only had two hand towels on board and these became
> >>>>>     soaked with
> >>>>>     sweat.  As such, they were not good for cleaning the condensation
> >>>>>     off after
> >>>>>     the two hour tow to the dive site.  Action items:  Have small
> >>>>>     bottle of
> >>>>>     Dove soap on board and more towels for future long duration
> dives.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.  I have quite a
> >>>>>     bit of
> >>>>>     battery capacity so this could work.  Unfortunately, mounting on
> >>>>>     hull won't
> >>>>>     work for me as I have syntactic foam under the FRP shell over the
> >>>>>     hull so I
> >>>>>     don't have a cool surface to mount on.  I do have a pair of
> >>>>>     plugged off
> >>>>>     ports on the bottom of the boat that would give me access to
> >>>>>     cooling water
> >>>>>     source if I installed a small pump on this circuit.  Pushing this
> >>>>>     water
> >>>>>     through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on water cooled
> >>>>>     motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but not
> >>>>>     humidity.   At
> >>>>>     Islamorada, the average water temperature at the time of the dive
> >>>>>     was about
> >>>>>     87F so this would not have helped all that much.  A small DC AC
> >>>>>     system that
> >>>>>     controlled both temperature and humidity would be better.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
> >>>>>     with how
> >>>>>     this worked.  I have all four of my thrusters connected to 1/4"
> >>>>>     SS tubing
> >>>>>     that is manifold into a single pressure reducing/relieving
> regulator
> >>>>>     (thanks Hugh)  under the cover just aft of the pilot. I was not
> >>>>>     sure if a
> >>>>>     single regulator would work or if I would need one for each
> >>>>>     thruster but it
> >>>>>     looks like one was adequate.  I have had two deep dives with the
> >>>>>     arrangement, one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no
> >>>>>     issues with
> >>>>>     water in the thrusters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Best Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Cliff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>>>     personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     > Thanks Cliff,
> >>>>>     > I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this is the
> entr?e!
> >>>>>     > Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down there!
> >>>>>     > After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
> >>>>>     elements &
> >>>>>     > air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have only 25%
> the
> >>>>>     > efficiency
> >>>>>     > of a normal compression cycle system, but are really small & by
> >>>>>     reversing
> >>>>>     > the polarity can act as heaters. A few of those peltier
> >>>>>     elements stuck to
> >>>>>     > the hull
> >>>>>     > with air channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure
> what
> >>>>>     > batteries you
> >>>>>     > are using, but the new battery technologies on the way will
> >>>>>     make energy
> >>>>>     > expenditure less of an issue!
> >>>>>     > Do you have all 4 motors exhausting through one regulator?
> >>>>>     Couldn't see
> >>>>>     > any
> >>>>>     > air coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't
> >>>>>     building up too
> >>>>>     > much
> >>>>>     > when exhausting.
> >>>>>     > Cheers Alan
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via
> Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>>>     > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
> >>>>>     Regatta.  The
> >>>>>     > first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug 3
> >>>>>     > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw
> >>>>>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw> and the second is
> a
> >>>>>     night
> >>>>>     > dive in front of Doug's house
> >>>>>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI
> >>>>>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI>.
> >>>>>     > Alec is working on a more comprehensive video of the Regatta.
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > Regards
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > Cliff
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles <
> >>>>>     > personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     >> Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on
> >>>>>     the 4-day
> >>>>>     >> sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st,
> >>>>>     August
> >>>>>     >> 1-3).
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival /
> >>>>>     setup day
> >>>>>     >> with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
> >>>>>     unfortunate
> >>>>>     >> that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our
> hands
> >>>>>     >> full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had
> >>>>>     enough time
> >>>>>     >> to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
> >>>>>     diving.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick
> Maxwell,
> >>>>>     >> River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired)
> >>>>>     saturation diver
> >>>>>     >> and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on
> this
> >>>>>     >> operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his
> >>>>>     knowledge and
> >>>>>     >> extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
> >>>>>     chatted
> >>>>>     >> with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan
> >>>>>     manned the
> >>>>>     >> tow line and helped with comms.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog
> men.
> >>>>>     >> Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they
> were
> >>>>>     >> both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I
> >>>>>     think
> >>>>>     >> River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is
> >>>>>     one of
> >>>>>     >> the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a
> >>>>>     gift for
> >>>>>     >> the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is
> always
> >>>>>     >> willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone
> >>>>>     who'd like
> >>>>>     >> to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I
> >>>>>     learned more
> >>>>>     >> than I can remember last week.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing
> >>>>>     whatever
> >>>>>     >> kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the
> >>>>>     canal
> >>>>>     >> (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was
> >>>>>     getting
> >>>>>     >> the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was
> >>>>>     able to
> >>>>>     >> tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about
> 4mph). We
> >>>>>     >> were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time,
> >>>>>     though we did
> >>>>>     >> suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a
> >>>>>     spot about
> >>>>>     >> 100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
> >>>>>     the tow
> >>>>>     >> line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we
> >>>>>     decided that
> >>>>>     >> we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine
> >>>>>     radio to OTS
> >>>>>     >> and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff
> neared the
> >>>>>     >> bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the
> >>>>>     Whaler!
> >>>>>     >> His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but
> >>>>>     wow did
> >>>>>     >> it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff
> >>>>>     spent about
> >>>>>     >> an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering
> about,
> >>>>>     >> testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the
> >>>>>     time Cliff
> >>>>>     >> surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood
> >>>>>     at 4.5
> >>>>>     >> / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the
> water
> >>>>>     >> flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning
> >>>>>     I think
> >>>>>     >> we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
> >>>>>     >> accomplishment with the mission.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need
> >>>>>     better tow
> >>>>>     >> equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release).
> >>>>>     Our boat
> >>>>>     >> REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves
> >>>>>     isn't so
> >>>>>     >> much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line
> >>>>>     needs to
> >>>>>     >> be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow
> >>>>>     vessel
> >>>>>     >> and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking
> >>>>>     and then
> >>>>>     >> jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for
> >>>>>     boat and
> >>>>>     >> sub to track straight).
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the
> >>>>>     waves
> >>>>>     >> everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation
> >>>>>     like this
> >>>>>     >> is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At
> >>>>>     dinner,
> >>>>>     >> one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel
> >>>>>     that can
> >>>>>     >> carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time
> >>>>>     consuming tow
> >>>>>     >> out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his
> support
> >>>>>     >> vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in
> terms of
> >>>>>     >> logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan
> >>>>>     will lend
> >>>>>     >> its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     >> Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     >> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> >>>>>     >>
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>     > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_
> submersibles
> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     > Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
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> >>>>>     > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_
> submersibles
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> >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     -------------- next part --------------
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>     ------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Message: 2
> >>>>>     Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:46:22 +0000 (UTC)
> >>>>>     From: james cottrell via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
> >>>>>     Message-ID: <1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com
> >>>>>     <mailto:1907666847.421009.1502293582178 at mail.yahoo.com>>
> >>>>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Hi Cliff,
> >>>>>     Congrats on your dives. Sub really looks great in those videos.
> >>>>>     With regards to an AC solution, one low tech method would be to
> >>>>>     blow air across ice in a small cooler. Water ice can be super
> >>>>>     cooled with Dry Ice the night before. Dry ice is about - 100 F
> >>>>>     and water ice cooled to this temperature should stay cold for
> >>>>>     quite some time.
> >>>>>     Greg C      From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>>
> >>>>>     Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:05 AM
> >>>>>     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Islamorada Trip Report...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Footage from my sub on the trip is limited due to condensation on
> >>>>>     viewport.? I used Dove soap on the viewport interior?prior to
> >>>>>     taking off but because of the humidity , temperature and duration
> >>>>>     of the dive, this treatment did not last and I did not have more
> >>>>>     soap on board.? The other issue is I only had two hand towels on
> >>>>>     board and these became soaked with sweat.? As such, they were not
> >>>>>     good for cleaning the condensation off?after the two hour tow to
> >>>>>     the dive site.? Action items:? Have small bottle of Dove soap on
> >>>>>     board and more towels for future long duration dives.?
> >>>>>     Yes, I have been reading up on peltier coolers.? I have quite a
> >>>>>     bit of battery capacity so this could work.? Unfortunately,
> >>>>>     mounting on hull won't work for me as I have syntactic foam under
> >>>>>     the FRP shell over the hull so I don't have a cool surface to
> >>>>>     mount on.? I do have a pair of plugged off ports on the bottom of
> >>>>>     the boat that would give me access to cooling water source if I
> >>>>>     installed a small pump on this circuit.? Pushing this water
> >>>>>     through a small fin-fan cooler like you would see on?water cooled
> >>>>>     motorcycle would help with the temperature some what but
> >>>>>     not?humidity.? ?At Islamorada, the average water temperature at
> >>>>>     the time of the dive was about 87F so this would not have helped
> >>>>>     all that much.? A small DC AC system that controlled both
> >>>>>     temperature and humidity would be better.
> >>>>>     On the thruster pneumatic pressure compensation, I was very happy
> >>>>>     with how this worked.? I have all four of my thrusters connected
> >>>>>     to 1/4" SS tubing that is manifold into a single pressure
> >>>>>     reducing/relieving regulator (thanks Hugh) ?under the cover just
> >>>>>     aft of the pilot.?I was not sure if a single regulator would work
> >>>>>     or if I would need one for each thruster but it looks like one
> >>>>>     was adequate.? I have had two deep dives with the arrangement,
> >>>>>     one to 155 ft and one to 100 ft and have had no issues with water
> >>>>>     in the thrusters.
> >>>>>     Best Regards
> >>>>>     Cliff
> >>>>>     On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Alan via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Thanks Cliff,I presume you shot some footage from your sub & this
> >>>>>     is the entr?e!Nice & clear, you must have been pretty happy down
> >>>>>     there!After you mentioned air conditioning, I looked into peltier
> >>>>>     elements &air conditioning units. The peltier conditioners have
> >>>>>     only 25% the efficiency?of a normal compression cycle system, but
> >>>>>     are really small & by reversingthe polarity can act as heaters. A
> >>>>>     few of those peltier elements stuck to the hull?with air
> >>>>>     channelled past them might be the way to go! Not sure what
> >>>>>     batteries youare using, but the new battery technologies on the
> >>>>>     way will make energyexpenditure less of an issue!Do you have all
> >>>>>     4 motors exhausting through one regulator? Couldn't see any?air
> >>>>>     coming out of the motor seals so the pressure isn't building up
> >>>>>     too muchwhen exhausting.Cheers Alan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>     On 9/08/2017, at 8:25 AM, Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> >>>>>     <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Added two quick and dirty Youtube videos from 2017 Psubs
> >>>>>     Regatta.? The first is the 100 ft dive 5.3 miles offshore on Aug
> >>>>>     3??https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=sHqL49V0lMw?and the second
> is
> >>>>>     a night dive in front of Doug's house??https://www.youtube.
> >>>>>     com/watch?v=KDBw1ZOdKaI.? Alec is working on a more comprehensive
> >>>>>     video of the Regatta.
> >>>>>     Regards
> >>>>>     Cliff
> >>>>>     On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Douglas Suhr via
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs. org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Greetings PSUBS group, Douglas Suhr here to share my take on the
> >>>>>     4-day
> >>>>>     sub operation we just completed in Islamorada, FL (July 31st,
> August
> >>>>>     1-3).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Wow, what a whirlwind! So July 31st was really an arrival /
> setup day
> >>>>>     with August 1-3 being true operational days. Though it was
> >>>>>     unfortunate
> >>>>>     that Alec wasn't able to make it with Shackleton, we had our
> hands
> >>>>>     full with Cliff's R-300. Without Shackleton, we also had enough
> time
> >>>>>     to get Snoopy set up and lowered into the canal for some basic
> >>>>>     diving.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     List of Crew: Dan Lance, Steve McQueen, Cliff Redus, Rick
> Maxwell,
> >>>>>     River Dolfi, Mike Patterson, Doug, Sarah, Douglas Suhr.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     This was my first time meeting Dan Lance, a (retired) saturation
> >>>>>     diver
> >>>>>     and commercial welder. What a pleasure to have him join us on
> this
> >>>>>     operation. Dan is modest, but most willing to share his
> knowledge and
> >>>>>     extensive experience with a newbie like me. So pleased to have
> >>>>>     chatted
> >>>>>     with him in the Keys. During the towing of the R-300, Dan manned
> the
> >>>>>     tow line and helped with comms.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Steve McQueen and River Dolfi did awesome jobs as our frog men.
> >>>>>     Filming, attaching / detaching davit and tow lines, etc. they
> were
> >>>>>     both in and out of the water quite a bit (especially Steve). I
> think
> >>>>>     River took a little jelly sting for the team. What troopers!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Cliff and his assistant Rick are such a joy be around. Rick is
> one of
> >>>>>     the friendliest people you'll ever meet (and even brought a gift
> for
> >>>>>     the group: a watermelon, straight from Texas!). Cliff is always
> >>>>>     willing to share his expertise (and sub, too) with anyone who'd
> like
> >>>>>     to learn more. I know that between Dan Lance and Cliff, I learned
> >>>>>     more
> >>>>>     than I can remember last week.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Mike Patterson, mom, dad and myself were all just providing
> whatever
> >>>>>     kind of "troop support" we could to Cliff and the R-300.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     River, Steve and Myself got in some dive time on Snoopy in the
> canal
> >>>>>     (which was great), but I think the biggest accomplishment was
> getting
> >>>>>     the R-300 out a ways into the ocean.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Our Boston Whaler (a 25' boat with a single 250hp Yamaha) was
> able to
> >>>>>     tow the R-300 out about 5 miles into the ocean (at about 4mph).
> We
> >>>>>     were in radio communication with Cliff most of the time, though
> >>>>>     we did
> >>>>>     suffer a few intermittent losses in comms. When we got to a spot
> >>>>>     about
> >>>>>     100 feet deep, we started to slow down a bit and at that point
> >>>>>     the tow
> >>>>>     line hook (an admittedly cheap thing) let loose(!) so we decided
> that
> >>>>>     we had reached our dive location. We switched from marine radio
> >>>>>     to OTS
> >>>>>     and Cliff started down. Visibility was supurb! As Cliff neared
> the
> >>>>>     bottom at 100 ? 110 feet, he was still quite visible from the
> Whaler!
> >>>>>     His 18 foot long R-300 looked to be about 3 inches long, but wow
> did
> >>>>>     it ever stand out from the rest of the sandy bottom. Cliff spent
> >>>>>     about
> >>>>>     an hour "flying" his sub, surfacing, diving and maneuvering
> about,
> >>>>>     testing systems and observing the ocean around him. By the time
> Cliff
> >>>>>     surfaced and we towed back to port Antigua, elapsed time stood
> at 4.5
> >>>>>     / 5 hours (estimate). Cliff said that he stayed cool by the water
> >>>>>     flowing over the sub's dome hatch while in tow. Upon returning I
> >>>>>     think
> >>>>>     we were all ready to take a break, but everyone felt great
> >>>>>     accomplishment with the mission.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     A couple of lessons I took away from the tow out: We need better
> tow
> >>>>>     equipment (better line, hardware and maybe a quick release). Our
> boat
> >>>>>     REALLY needs a GPS (still don't have one). Towing into waves
> isn't so
> >>>>>     much a problem, but when towing with the waves, our tow line
> needs to
> >>>>>     be measured so as to sustain the proper distance between tow
> vessel
> >>>>>     and sub (otherwise the sub and boat are constantly slacking and
> then
> >>>>>     jerking, stressing the tow line and making it difficult for boat
> and
> >>>>>     sub to track straight).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     The devotion of our crew was amazing, even in the heat and the
> waves
> >>>>>     everyone did their jobs. Managing even a small sub operation like
> >>>>>     this
> >>>>>     is more work / effort than meets the eye, that's for sure. At
> dinner,
> >>>>>     one of the main discussions revolved around a support vessel
> that can
> >>>>>     carry a sub or two on board, eliminating the slow, time
> consuming tow
> >>>>>     out to an ocean dive site. Dan Lance shared details on his
> support
> >>>>>     vessel project, which is no doubt going to be a dream in terms of
> >>>>>     logistics. Hopefully when said vessel is ready to sail, Dan will
> lend
> >>>>>     its services to host a diving event! ~ Douglas S.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or
> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.or> g
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/l istinfo.cgi/personal_submersib
> les
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_
> submersibles
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     ______________________________ _________________
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs. org
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/ listinfo.cgi/personal_
> submersibles
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     |  | Virus-free. www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com>  |
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> >>>>>     Subject: Digest Footer
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> submersibles>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>     ------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 19
> >>>>>     *****************************************************
> >>>>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
> >>>>>     Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
> >>>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>>     Personal_Submersibles mailing list
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> >>>>     <mailto:Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org>
> >>>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>>>     <http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles>
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> psubs.org>
> >>>     http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
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> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Personal_Submersibles at psubs.org
> >>> http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >>
> >> --
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> >> Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog
> >> Translations (ProZ profile): http://www.proz.com/profile/639380
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> >> Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> > http://www.psubs.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/personal_submersibles
> >
>
> --
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> End of Personal_Submersibles Digest, Vol 50, Issue 34
> *****************************************************
>



-- 
-River J. Dolfi

412-997-2526
rdolfi7 at gmail.com
rwd5301 at psu.edu
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