-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jim Pesanka
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:07 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Product liability?Carsten,My friend, you say you side with Ray, but your actions contradict that. You did part with Sgt. Peppers to another operator, and you say you would sell Euronaut.Nobody is suggesting selling anything to anyone who does not understand its nature, or who is too mentally deficient to own it safely. Certainly, any prospective buyer should be thoroughly advised regarding his purchase. But the fact remains: there is no legal criteria (at least in the United States) defining the design or construction of amateur-built submarines. Therefore, if a full disclosure is made, one cannot be negligent regarding any such criteria, since that criteria does not exist.So I must respectfully disagree with you and with Ray. We should not destroy our psubs rather than sell them, especially if the boat has been proven to work properly. If the buyer is competent and understands the nature of his purchase, there is no problem.On another point: you mentioned that you've built inclusions into the Euronaut that would assure it would kill someone who stole it, even if he knew how to operate a submarine. I wonder if you are aware that (at least in the United States) under common (and most codified) laws that could comprise laying a lethal trap in defense of property, which is not only illegal, but you could be liable for wrongful death should anyone perish as a result of your potentially dangerous contrivances.You might want to consider removing all such hazardous modifications from Euronaut, especially now that you've publicly described their existence.But that's only my opinion, and you are, of course, free to do as you wish. Best of luck to y! ou!Cheers!Jim
Carsten Standfuss <Merlinsub@t-online.de> wrote:Before I jumped on that bandwagon, I'd consider the facts.
Has there ever been a liability lawsuit against the seller of a
homebuilt submarine? Not that I know of.
Should Dale Heinzig or Carsten Standfuss have destroyed Snoopy or Sgt.
Peppers before they went to other owners? I don't think so.
Is there any regulatory agency defining criteria homebuilt sub
manufacturers must adhere to, as is the case with professional sub
manufacturers? No,
there is not. So how is malfeasance or negligence defined without such
criteria? One can't fall short of a standard when no standard exists.
The person buying a homebuilt submarine knows what he is getting into: a
non-certified vessel without establ! ished design or construction
criteria. And
they are probably sold "as is" and without warranty.
With all due respect, what we have here is only Ray's opinion, and
shouldn't be taken as gospel by those who want to build, and perhaps one
day sell,
their own psubs.
Cheers! Jim
Hi jim - That is not a question of law - more of moral - your personal
moral.
After the using of Sgt.Peppers in the 80-90ies - I descide not to sell
it to somebody (and not to destroy) but give it to a museum, thinking
maybe for ever. I change my mind with the date I found a new friend and
now co-owner which shows clear that he can handle, rebuild and operate
the difficult small craft even better than I ! I would never sell
Sgt.Peppers to somebody unkown to me which have not the expirence and
knowledge to handle it.. I an shure that Emile is thinking the same way
- so Sgt.Peppers will end later maybe in a sience museum. Its a to nice
! happy boat that it is not worth to ends his lifetime with somebody
stupid kill hisself inside. So I am with Ray..
http://home.hetnet.nl/~edlvanessen/
http://home.hetnet.nl/~airesearch2/index.html
On Euronaut are some installation are designed that way that a user with
has stolen the boat will died on the first dive. Even if he is an
expirience sub-user.. But if in some years a interesst make an offer
which I can not resistance :-) - he has clear to show me that he can
handle the boat- and will not use it for any other porpose as it was
desigend for.. Otherwise it will end as a museum display or a funny
beach-bar.. with some well done cuts in important parts..
http://www.euronaut.org/index.php@page=ausbau.html
best regards Carsten
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