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Hi Stephen.
Hi Stephen and group.
Earlier I said my last word on the issue of
selling a psub. The below however is in answer to Stephen's question of
informational liability, not selling liability.
So I will reply to it.
You wrote..."From comments made earlier in this string are we to
assume then that there may be some risk associated with providing information to
another party."
and
also....."Should Psubs be discontinued because of this
risk?"
It
is stated at the psub site that psubs disclaims all responsibility for any
information at the site and that the information
is
presented stricly for informational purposes and anyone using this information
does so at their own risk.
This
is known as a disclaimer of responsibility and liability.
Of
course anyone can sue anybody for anything. But the disclaimer helps to insure
you will prevail in court. There is no guarantee however that your attorney fees
and costs
will
be reimbursed to you if you win. That depends on whether the judge will award
them to you and also whether the losing party has any funds to go after. You can
win a case but still
be
out of pocket for your attorney's fees and costs if the judge will not award
those reimbursement costs to you or if the losing party refuses to pay you and
has no money even
if
the court orders them to reimburse you. No debtors prison in American. I have
personally experienced this. Won in court, loser ordered to pay reimbursement
costs for my attorney
fees
and costs, loser had no money. Court did nothing. I could have filed a judgement
lien against loser (with judgement lein renewal fees to the court every
several years) and chased them around for 20 years and hired a private detective
to keep track of them to see
if they ever owned anything other than their house or single car (which cannot
be taken from them) and then when I found they had acquired something other than
their house and car I could
file
a writ of execution (which costs a fee to file) to allow the local Sheriff to go
and seize those items and sell them at pubic auction to reimburse me for my
costs. But I would have to prove to the sheriff that the loser owned those items
by showing the sheriff documents of title showing the loser as the owner before
they would seize those items. But that would cost more than I would recover and
entail me making that loser's life and acquisions my hobby and take up an
inordinate amount of my time not to mention further costs. Isn't American
justice wonderful?
So
yes, someone could ATTEMPT to sue Psubs even with the disclaimer psubs has on
its site. We live in a world that anyone can sue anybody for anything. Doesn't
mean they will prevail, also doesn't
mean
the winner will be reimbursed for their successful defence costs either. I was a
criminal justice pre law major at the Universitey of South Florida. Never
took that anywhere but it did serve to educate
me
that there is no justice, there is no fairness. There is only b.s. and money,
lawyers getting rich and who gives up first. There is no complete
security. Even with a disclaimer. But it helps give you the
protection of legal standing.
We
all need to wake up to the fact that there is no complete security of any kind
in life. We are all going to die someday. Do we live in fear of that lack of
security? Do we let it control our actions in every regard of our
lives?
That
is up to each one of us individually. I'm sure no one in a court battle
intentionally wanted that battle. Shit happens.
Bill
Akins.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 4:32
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Product
liability - Cont
Jon
From
comments made earlier in this string are we to assume then that there may be
some risk associated with providing information to another party. For instance
the schematic provided by Rick. If someone used that schematic and it
contained an error which in turn resulted in an injury would Rick be liable?
What about if Rick made no error, could he still be liable because he
encouraged an unqualified someone to build a device which they otherwise would
not have been able to build, that in turn resulted in a personal injury. How
far can this be taken? If you provide someone with information on how to wire
up an electric light, they are not an electrician, they do, they get Zapped (extreme example but same theory) are you going to
be liable. Should Psubs be discontinued because of this risk? I hope and think
not but it demonstrates anything can be taken to
extremes.
Having
joined this mailing list 8 weeks ago I can say that there are many members who
have provided me with some great insights and valuable information, Thank you!
The Psub?s site was something I discovered after I had taken the decision to
build and own a personal submersible and I value what it provides. I don?t
have any preconceived views about other members except for a certain ?Elvis
impersonator? (that was a joke Bill) in the mailing list and certainly don?t
know about statements made prior to 8 weeks ago.
I
will say I personally think this whole debate tipped over the edge when
opinions became absolute and another stupid comment was made about trapping
and killing a thief (and I agree with Jim, that is what you intended
regardless of any post statement commentary!). Some of the very same people
who were suggesting the most caution were taking the greatest risks. What if a
German Newspaper got its hands on this string? Instead of the headline ?Launch
of the Euronaut? it read ?Submersible Death Machine takes to the High Seas?.
That would provide a wonderful PR opportunity for Psub?s!
I
feel the issue is not about who?s right or wrong but about personal risk
management. It?s up to the individual to decide for them selves what level of
risk they are prepared to be personally responsible for. As a former SCUBA
instructor there were some students I would refuse to continue to instruct
after the first Pool Skills Lesson. The risk was too great ?to themselves? to
continue. I would also conclude that if you were selling your Psub you would
have to make a similar decision and I would like to think that most Psub
members would be considering and valuing the buyer?s wellbeing first and
foremost.
Personally
I feel if you are going to make statements about ?booby trapping your Psub
regardless of your actual intent? you deserve to be taken to task which Jim
did quite effectively. If you have taken a position in the past and it is
hypocritical, the same rule applies. As with the E-bay Psub, who?s business is it anyway except the Seller and
Buyer.
Maybe
just like ?Flying Cars? this is not the correct place for this forum. Maybe
it?s your Lawyer?s office not Psubs? At the end of the day it?s a personal
decision as to the perceived or actual risk you are prepared to expose
yourself to and how you personally choose to manage
it!
Regards
and goodwill to all J
Stephen
Pearce
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