[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] George's joyrider.



Hi George.
 
I really like your idea. It even reminds me of a PVC flight simulator named "Joyrider" found at this link..... http://www.acesim.com/main.html
 
Your design and my wetsub have much in common except yours is more of an open framework. There are some pictures
of my wetsub on moki and also a lot of them on the frapper site. It has a rudder operated with pedals, a joystick that inclines
and declines the dive planes. I have a single 78lb thrust minnkota mouted on the stern. It has a 5 ft long 12" pvc pipe for its
keel weight and battery pod. The 4 deep cycle marine batteries will work in series to supply one primary and one reserve  
power to the minnkota. I have a few tips for you that might be helpful. You said...."It would be powered descent and ascent
only... I would probably ballast it slightly bouyant in case your batteries go out then it would slowly rise to the surface on it's own."
 
Being a diver I don't want something that will take me to the surface because it's batteries gave out. That's not a good idea.
That's fine for a 1 atm boat where you're not under pressure and no need for deco or worries about rising too fast, but not for a DPV
that is basically taking a diver to the surface before his time to surface or at a speed that could injure the diver. It will be very hard
for you to get that built in slightly over buoyancy just right so it rises ever so slightly and never speeds up as it rises. Very difficult.
My wetsub was originally built for a movie where it did just what you describe. I have that movie and have watched the sub rise slightly
and try to go up and was held down by another diver when the two divers got out of it. It was designed to be slightly buoyant just like you
are contemplating doing. That means you can never get out of it to look at or pick up somthing without it rising to the surface. Not good.
So there are two reasons in my opinion not to make a WETSUB slighly buoyant.  What you want is to have control of your buoyancy so
you can be completely neutrally buoyant, negative or postivie and have instant control over that at all times. Once you get to the depth you
want to be, you will want to become neutrally buoyant so you can literally float in one spot neither rising nor falling. Just floating in place.
Then you click on the motor and go and use your dive planes to control your depth. Remember, you are still scuba diving. Do not rise faster
than your bubbles go up, the standard is 1 ft per second. You have to observe the same rules as scuba divers to stay alive, so this influences
how and what you build into your boat. Actually with my wetsub and your design we both have basically a jumbo large size motor powered 
BCD, so think of it that way. Operate it like a normal BCD. Make your boat where when you have flooded all ballast tanks she sits right on the bottom and won't move
very easily by current action. Then you can use your ballast tanks to get her back to neutral and start flying again. Then when it is time to surface
you can keep her neutral and use her dive planes to ride her up to your 15 ft safety stop on the anchor or dive line. Your personal diver BCD should
be enough to hold you and your wetsub in place while you hang on the anchor line for 3 minutes. Then after your 3 minute safety stop at 15 ft, you
could either slowly power the sub up and then fill your ballast tanks, or you could slowly fill your ballast tanks and slowly rise your last 15 ft.
 
I have two stainless steel coca cola water tight tanks. One of them fits perfectly in the stern but the other will not fit in the bow because of the
joystick bar and rudder pedals not allowing enough room for its installation. So I might use the  one in the stern, but I would have to have a flexible
bladder for the bow. The best source of a cheap bladder with it's already built in valves and fill tubing, is cheap, non weight integrated BCD's off of
E bay. As long as the bladder is strong and the tubing is in good shape, you just bought your ballast tank. It has generally two bladders on each
side if it is a vest style BCD. A wing type BCD has a horse shoe shaped bladder and you can even buy those individual wing bladders with the
inflator tube seperately from the harness of the BCD on e bay as well. I intend to strap one bladder inside the upper bow and it will clear the joystick and
rudder pedals. Then I may install one in the stern. Then run tubing from my side mounted scuba tanks to the inflator hose of the two bcd bladders
seperately so I can fill whichever one I need for trim or surfacing. By installing a longer inflator hose to each bcd (I can have long ones made up at
a hose shop) I can have the inflator valves right there mounted on the dash or side of my cockpit. The bladder tanks I described could be all you need
and you may not need two tanks at both stern and bow. The way I see your design you have them at the same heights and the other one does not
help increase your freeboard on the surface, so why have two on each end? My wetsub will also have large pvc pipe attached to the side of the sub
and lower than the bladder tanks so after I surface I can fill up those tanks either with my mounted scuba tanks (which are mounted over the pvc pipe
soft ballast tanks) or as suggested by some of the members here...I could install a waterproof blower fan and just blow them dry at the surface. I
wouldn't mind building in both ways. These same soft ballast pvc tanks which raise me higher at the surface than my bladder tanks would, also can be used
for surfacing in case the bladders malfunctioned. One of these days I'll post some pictures of the interior of my cockpit and show how its joystick and rudder
pedals are positioned and how I would install a bladder and hook it all up. I don't know why you think you would need to replace your frame and ballast
with something sturdier if you are just diving to scuba depths. I see no need fot that. Someone here recently sent us all a link to a site where they have trolling motors for sale
that are good up to 100 ft. I saved that e mail but can't easily find it right now. I will look later. You can also do what I am going to do with my minnkota.
All minnkotas are only guaranteed to 1 bar, 1 atm in depth or 33 and 1/3 ft. I know. I called the minnkota corporationa and they told me. So you have
two choices. You can completely oil fill your minnkota motor. You have to make sure you got every smidgen of air out of the housing and tubing and will
probably have to install a fitting into it somewhere either in the motor housing shaft or the motor housing itself and pressure bleed out any air just like you
would do with the brakeline in your car and eliminate all the air. Then your motor will be equalized to any depth since the oil in noncompressable the water
will not seek to enter the motor housing shaft or the motor housing. Your motor will run slower because you lose some of its rpm because of the friction of the
oil on the motor rotator but you buy a stronger unit than you need and account for that beforehand. That's one way. Another way is to send off your motor to vendors
that will fit a ceramic and graphite seal for your prop shaft that will be stronger and go to deeper depths than the factory one will go before leaking. But to me the easiest
and best choice I have chosen is to air equalize the motor housing to prevent inward leaks for a scuba depths sub. 
I intend to attach the factory motor housing shaft to the motor housing and bring that shaft up into the sub body interior.
Then that shaft will be cut shorter and plugged except for having a scuba regulator attached to it. Simple. Job done. The scuba regulator will automatically pressurize the motor housing
shaft and the motor housing as you dive deeper and exhaust excess air from it on surfacing. One last thing. Stay away from foam. It will compress and become useless
because it will not decompress very well and will stay pretty much compressed forever once it gets compressed by water pressure. It might work for some depths ok, but
a 60 ft dive would probably compress damage it. Why take the chance? Don't use it. I hope this has been helpful to you.
 
Bill Akins.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Have you ever heard of a Murisub?

Also this got me to thinking and I did up a quick design sketch of a 30' or less PVC Diver's skid or Wet Sub, which can be found here: http://www.captovis.com/marine/designsketches/pvcskid.png or if you want it in Paint Shop Pro format (the program I used to make it) it can be found here: http://www.captovis.com/marine/designsketches/pvcskid.pspimage.
 
It would use a PVC frame with a PVC Batter compartment suspended below it in the middle using 4 marine batteries w/ hydrocaps connected to a speed control and then connected to two 12v trolling motors. It would have four ballast/trim takes, two foreward and two aft, the aft ones would be the larger of the four because of the weight distribution. It would have a fiberglass rudder aft between the two trolling motors that would be controlled by the rudder pedals and it would have two fiberglass dive planes foreward controlled by the "joystick" dive plane control. The diver and or pilot would sit in the reclined seat (probably a refitted lawn char). Life support would be the standard scuba gear. The battery compartment would serve as the keel for stability.
 
To go up the diver/pilot would incline the dive planes, to go down decline them. left or right the diver would use the rudder pedals. It would be powered descent and ascent only... I would probably ballast it slightly bouyant in case your batteries go out then it would slowly rise to the surface on it's own.
 
Because of the trolling motors used for locomotion it couldn't go down any more than 30' (trolling motors are only rated for +1bar) but if you could get some other kind of motor on this you could probably take it down to 60' and still keep the PVC construction... any more than that and you'll need to replace the frame/ballast with something sturdier. The fiberclass dive planes and rudder should be fine. You cold probably strap an extra tank to this too to increase your bottom time a bit. You could outsize your ballast and to keep things simple just put a plug in each one and re-ballast every time you take it out by letting water in by removing the plug and then plugging it back up when it's ballasted correctly. Or you could use foam and lead weights.
 
If you built this however because of the trolling motors and because it would carry a person it would still have to be registered as a boat in the state of florida. (any powered marine vehicle capable of carrying passangers) I don't know about your state.
 
And thus you have the cummulative results from my 45 minute brainstorm spawned by this thread.
 
George Slaterpryce