Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: MSV Alvin Jr. Update

Vance,

Thanks, I'm glad you like the aesthetics. Every time I sacrifice something in the name of looks, I think about your "pick two, but you can't have three" quote!

After you told me about PC-8, I remembered a suggestion from Alec regarding an acrylic dome improvement to the standard as per plans. But, that made me realize that if you take the K boat, add the saddles, cut the nose, and add the dome....voila...baby PC-8! This would give you an incredible machine (42" dia, even better) but, for the life of me, I can't figure out why I just don't like the way it looks!! And for surface towing!

PC-8 also always had the luxury of a home out of the water on deck. I'm going to have to contend with surface towing / handling, rafting, dockside bumping and thumping. So I figure a more "boat" style surface profile may me better.

But, I can't stop thinking about the line of sight issues you brought up either, so look for a "shorter" nose in the next evolution, and probably increased saddles just as you note. Trouble with that becomes now, yes you have to extend those thrusters way out there along with whatever guards they end up with. So this tremendous increase in beam negates any thoughts of a trailer able LRT type situation as just discussed. Sacrifice one thing to get another.

I just don't know yet for sure. Your comments to me about "working with these things" sticks with me in trying to reduce "fluff" and build in "functionality". ......Note the missing fins.

Joe

>From: vbra676539@aol.com
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: MSV Alvin Jr. Update
>Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:34:17 -0500
>
>Joe,
>
>I like the looks of this thing a LOT, even with the forward overhang. What >if you shortened it to maybe a foot or so? George's original designed tanks >have about the same total buoyancy you're talking about, so it ought to >work. The "brow" is, of course, a time honored way to do things, primarily >on the deeper boats. Look at the Pisces, for instance, which has a pair of >32" spheres up there as part of the trim system.
>
>As you said, however, that kills a bunch of forward/down visibility. How >about main saddle tanks six inches wider than the hull on each side like >PC-8? What would that give you? You could run your thrusters on extensions >to get out far enough, or mount them forward within the same fore and aft >footprint and pivot both of them with one hand!!! Just make them >reversible.
>
>Side Note: Don't worry about the lift. She may tip down some, but let me >tell you, I've hauled some MONSTROUS stuff up on occasion, and managed it >pretty well.
>Second Side Note: Of course, if the saddles were split athwartships, or >built as four seperate half-tanks, then you could control that nose down >attitude more easily.
>
>Vance
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: joeperkel@hotmail.com
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Sent: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 1:44 PM
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] RE: MSV Alvin Jr. Update
>
>
>I forgot to post the link itself..... http://www.frappr.com/psub
>
> >From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
> >To: joeperkel@hotmail.com
> >Subject: MSV Alvin Jr. Update
> >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:41:55 +0000
> >
> >I have posted some new views of the latest changes, to my version of the > >K-350, on my frappr.com/psub account. Some of this I did while having the > >flu, mainly the stern section which must be redone as a result, the > >fairings do not “fair” well at the juncture, and soft ballast under >is not >quite right.
> >
> >The intent here is to give this little guy massive amounts of buoyancy on > >the surface, so as not to swamp the hatch in 3' swells along the coastal > >littoral environment...... This is not proving to be an easy task. Seeing > >video of both Alec and Dan on the surface, confirms in my mind the > >necessity of this additional buoyancy for ocean use.
> >
> >As Vance pointed out, you give up one thing to gain another, very tough > >choices. Originally, the idea for these saddle tanks was to hopefully > >dispense entirely with all of the bow structures, ala PC-8, in order to > >gain forward line of site visibility from the sail. ...Well, that gives >up >too much available under waterline lift, without the use of massive > >saddles, which created more problems. Ah, and what to do about that >massive >space behind the aft viewport?...an emergency buoy on a reel >perhaps?
> >
> >As it is, these volumes (saddle tanks) are 5 cf each for a total of 640 >lbs >reserve buoyancy. Note the shape in the forward view, that airspace is > >designed to resist (hopefully), the gunwales from being pushed under >while >rolling, this results from comments by both Jay and Vance. I cannot > >overstress my appreciation for comments and suggestions regarding > >improvements.
> >
> >Another consideration, and perhaps someone can qualify this or disprove >it. >I wondered that if I lost the forward MBT, would I ever be able to >lift >something substantial with the claw? Seems to me that forward MBT is >a >natural “lift bag”, should you just “happen” across a 50 lb >clump of the >Queens silver!
> >
> >Note the scale figures in position. These are based on my height of 5' 11 > >½", and boy...is it tight in there! Eventually, I will scale this to a >42" >hull diameter and recalculate displacements and weights out of >curiosity.
> >
> >I’m astounded by the amount of detail work that will be required by the > >time a concept is finally hashed out. Each component will need detail > >drawings of it’s own, including attach points and hardware.
> >
> >As always, I welcome comments for improvements / oversights.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >
>
>
>
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