Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention Emergancy Dive Plan

[MerlinSub@t-online.de]

The name of the Operations Supervisor can be "Der Alte" = "The old man" 
- nick name of all german Uboat commanders from her crew - even wen the just 21 years old..  " ;-0

another safety feature: 

- Hatch or dome should be opening also from outside..
(To rescue crew on the surface in case of smoke, heard attack or whateven make it imposible for them to open the hatch from inside.) 

Convention Rules (samples)
Sub should have at least two undpendable saftey features from the following list.. 

- Drop weight 
- underwater radio 
- surface radio 
- release bouy 
- reasonable emergency flood vale and scuba basic gear 
- second ballast tank system 
- fire extingusher 



<vbra676539@aol.com> schrieb:
> That's a good illustration, Carsten. One of the things about subs is that the guy underwater really is out on his own, and it's an experience hard to explain to those who haven't been there. Time gets slippery when you're just noodling around on the bottom, and we couldn't afford that at the convention. The biggest danger would probably be a heart attack on the surface!!!
>  
> That's why I think and strongly recommend that an Operations Supervisor or Surface Coordinator (or whatever we call him) should be used. Dive planning is essential to even the most casual of operations, of course, but these particular dives aren't you're run of the mill week-end events, either. They are being done to show how each vehicle works, and to give the other guys a little taste. That makes the dive day mission oriented, rather than just a fun day in the water. Subs are serious business, even if the DO make you giggle (and believe me, they do).
>  
> Vance 
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention Emergancy Dive Plan
> 
> 
> 
> On the european convention in Kopenhagen we did it that way:  
> 
> - each sub has a radio
> - the bigger subs dive more outside, the smaller one more to the shore.
> - the was a lifting bag of some tons in a car and allways two divers somewere..
> 
> There was no dive or emergancy coordinator. Maybe a good idear. 
> 
> But the most important think is that somebody onshore 
> now how long the sub want to stay underwater !
> 
> It was on Stefans first dive in Sgt.Peppers in the Harbour of Heligoland, North 
> sea some weeks later. I made in front of him a short check dive of 10 minutes. 
> That he dives his first dive the sub - and for over 40 minutes - and we have not 
> agree any time before.. The longest 30 minutes in my life.. After 40 minutes I 
> was a nervos crazy guy run up and down the kai - and he gets out of the sub with 
> a smile how fantastic the tour was.. 
> 
> best regards Carsten
>  
> 
> 
> "Al Secor" <wreckdiver@usadatanet.net> schrieb:
> > Ray,
> > 
> > With all due respect, I was present with full techinical dive setup (double 
> > tanks, etc) on the pontoon boat and had lift bags capable of lifting 500+ 
> > lbs not to mention, plenty of air to inflate MBT's.  Though I was not in the 
> > water as other divers elected to be, I was ready and standing by in the 
> > event of an emergency as a safety diver should.  So please don't insinuate 
> > that we were not prepared for an emergency at the last convention.
> > 
> > With that being said, I have to say that with subs that don't have 
> > underwater communications (Alec was the only one that did at the convention) 
> > then it's pretty hard to know if there's an emergency unless there is a 
> > diver with every sub.  We really didn't have a strict dive plan and stick to 
> > it with respect to times. I am currently working on a design for a low cost 
> > (relatively) underwater comm but don't know if it will be ready for next 
> > summer or not.
> > 
> > One other comment....the selected dates for next year's convention are very 
> > close to the July 4th holiday that a lot of people may have other plans 
> > for...could we try for a different weekend?
> > 
> > Al Secor
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Ray Keefer" <psubs2001@yahoo.com>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:26 PM
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Convention Emergancy Dive Plan
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > There are already initial discussions on the for the
> > 2007 PSUBS Convention itenary. Location is in Michigan
> > and dates are:
> > 
> > Friday, 29 June 2007
> > Saturday, 30 June 2007
> > Sunday, 01 July 2007
> > 
> > Which gives us plenty of time to discuss an aspect of
> > the 2006 convention that bothered me.
> > 
> > While the dive operations went well, what would of
> > happened if there was an incedent? On Saturday there
> > were ten of us on a pontoon boat while Alec and Les
> > were diving their subs. So if a problem did occur who
> > would coordinate rescue? By the time that was sorted
> > out, consensus was taken and plan of action
> > chosen...someone could of drowned.
> > 
> > While pandemonium was ensuing a few heros would of
> > jumped in. Would there of been enough coordination to
> > assist their individual efforts? Or would the result
> > of been additional folks at risk?
> > 
> > I could go on. My intent with this email is to start
> > dialog on what a reasonable plan should be. Below are
> > my intitial thoughts on how I see the Convention
> > Emergancy Dive Plan (CEDP) should be set up.
> > 
> > Convention Emergancy Dive Plan (CEDP)
> > 
> > 1. Dive Master
> > 
> >    1. One individual is dive master.
> >    2. He stays at the dive site and on the surface
> > unless formally spelled by another individual. Hand
> > off has to be clear.
> >    3. Before diving the sub driver must notify Dive
> > Master.
> >    4. Upon surfacing the sub driver must notify Dive
> > Master.
> >    5. No more then 5 subs diving at any one time. Too
> > many subs would overwhelm the Dive Master and a sub in
> > trouble might get overlooked for too long.
> >    6. All subs to dive within a 100 yards of each
> > other and Dive Master. Junior or Deputy Dive Masters
> > to be managing submersible diving outside Dive
> > Master's immediate area. After all the Dive Master can
> > only keep a situational awareness so far out.
> > 
> > 2. Once an emergancy is stated,
> > Dive Master is the go to person to clear actions.
> > 
> > 3. First Action
> > 
> > First action of Dive Master is to delcare all diving
> > operations suspended. All none effected subs have to
> > surface, open hatch and stay there. The only exception
> > would be if a sub actually was in visual contact with
> > the stricken vessel. In which case visual contact is
> > important to maintain.
> > 
> > 4. Rescue Dive Teams.
> > 
> > Rescue divers need to be paired. Just like you do for
> > normal diving operations. One team needs to be ready
> > to get into the water within a minute of declared
> > emergancy. A second team within ten minutes.
> > 
> > 5. Rescue Dive Team Actions
> > 
> >    1. Locate strickened vessel.
> >    2. Establish communication with occupant.
> >    3. Assess nature of emergancy.
> >    4. If possible follow Owner Emergancy Procdure for
> > that sub.
> >    5. Invoke Plan B if Owner Emergancy Procedure
> > doesn't work.
> > 
> > 6. Owner Emergancy Procedures (sub save thy self)
> > 
> >    1. Each sub owner should document emergancy
> > procedures.
> >    2. A copy of each document to be given to Dive
> > Master and reviewed by Recue Divers.
> >    3. Details in procedure must include what outside
> > divers can do to bring sub to surface and open hatch.
> > 
> > 7. Plan B Procedures (PSUBS dive team attempt to save
> > sub)
> > 
> >    1. Bleed scuba tanks into MBT to force sub up.
> >    2. Have cutting tools to free sub from
> > entanglement.
> >    3. Have lift bags on hand. Enough to lift 5 tons or
> > twice the biggest sub in attendance.
> >    4. Have enough scuba tanks on hand to fill MBTs and
> > lift bags down to operational depth of area. Or at
> > least maximum scuba diving depth. Approximately 160
> > feet.
> >    5. First aid kit on site by Dive Master.
> >    6. Closest Decompression Chamber identified. 
> >    7. Local Emergancy numbers compiled.
> >    8. Local Hospital identified.
> > 
> > 8. Required Equipment in/on Subs
> > 
> >    Requiring people to invest into a set of required
> > equipment will smack hard against some of our more
> > individual owners. Not to mention their pocket books.
> > Still needs discussion.
> > 
> >    1. Underwater telephones.
> >    2. Bouys.
> >        1. Emergancy release. Good enough? Only release
> > when you get into trouble. Assuming one remembers or
> > is able to do so.
> >        2. Continous tethered float. On one dive Alec
> > went down. When he came up NO ONE had expected him to
> > come up where he did. We were all suprised. A float
> > would of been very useful in knowing were he was.
> >    3. 72 hour air supply.
> >    4. Walkie Talkies.
> > 
> > 9. Required Equipment with Dive Master/Rescue Team
> > 
> >    1. Cell phone.
> >    2. Underwater telephone.
> >    3. Multiple surface boats. At least two. One needs
> > to be capable of 5 or more person capacity. The other
> > can be canoe or row boat sized.
> >    4. Walkie Talkies for surface communications for
> > each boat and sub.
> > 
> > 10. Talker.
> > 
> >     Dive Master work load is great. He has to keep in
> > touch with multiple subs and surface awareness. Assign
> > a talker to handle the underwater telephone
> > communications as interface to Dive Master.
> > 
> > 11. Chase Boat Pilot
> > 
> >     Have an individual operating the primary, large,
> > chase boat. Again freeing the Dive Master of a task
> > drain.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Ray
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
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