Re: GUNS was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUB Fatalities...View Ports...Shatterproof

["Karl & Shirin Fuller" <fullerk@voyager.co.nz>]

To Ray, bring on the P-SUBS not the flame !

It's 1am, hot and you ain't sleeping so good, it's been a hard day at the
office, o subs sold this month, the news on the TV was all bad.
To make it worse, someone's making a noise down stairs...... down stairs
!!!!!! Something falls over, has to be an intruder. Heart pounding, you
slide out of bed, reach for the Colt, nobody is going to mess with me or my
stuff !
Your years of training cut in now like natural instinct. Silently you round
the corner, gun raised and ready, some bodies words echoing in your head
"shoot or be shot " Dam ! Just bumped the family wall hanging pictures.....
More noise from downstairs, the intruder startled ! A brief shadow movement
to the left and a creaking floorboard to the right ! Two intruders....bead
drawn on the noise.... suddenly you realise you are back lit by a window,
are a sitting  target ! Sweat breaks out on your brow, something smashes to
the
ground to the left, you swing round as the shadow moves again to the right,
raising an arm.... only the first letter of the words 'Dad it's me' reach
your ears before they are drowned out by the bast of sound form your gun.
Time stands still and the split second silence is broken by the thud of a
body falling to the ground and broken once again by the scream of the noise
to the left and once again broken by the scream of the wife behind you and
once again broken by the scream inside your own heart as you realise the
blood running down the stairs is that of your own son........ Never, ever
will you be the same again. Over and over, over the years, you ask yourself,
how did we ever get in this mess..........( This guy obviously needs some
counselling from Big Dave !)

This happens a lot, we know it.
I don't hate guns ( and I have shot on one of your ranges in America, and
kicked arse !), but I do hate that too many people are dying and somebody's
got to help the broken boy's father above to get rid of unneeded guns.
Otherwise, it seems to me, the paranoia is heading America for another civil
war, and we know where that led us the last time, to the creation of the
first mini-sub ! (and better race relations, two big pluses !)
Jokes aside, somebody has got to reduce guns first, like in Ireland and that
takes more guts than a lot of us have got.
I agree with you, education has a huge part to play and it begins in the
home and doesn't start
on a web site promoting paranoid anti-government sentiments ( not the P-SUB
site !)
If I have stirred some emotions, I meant to :-)
>From the land down under,
Karl.
--.Original Message -----
From: Ray Keefer <Ray.Keefer@ebay.sun.com>
..To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: 14 March 2000 07:36
Subject: Re: GUNS was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUB Fatalities...View
Ports...Shatterproof


> Hi Carsten,
>
> You really hit a hot button. Expect a lot of flame.
>
> I am an avid gun owner. Guns are my number one hobby.
>
> > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:25:54 +0100
> > From: MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuß)
> > X-Accept-Language: de
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: GUNS was Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUB Fatalities...View
> Ports...Shatterproof
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > X-Sender: 320000596261-0001@t-dialin.net
> >
> > Some Statistic:
> >
> > 32436 Americans died in 1997 by guns.
> > In the Korea-war 33651 americans died.
> >
> > In 1996 in Newzealand 2 people were killed with guns,
> > in Japan 15,  in Great Britain 30 in
> > Germany 213 (what a shame..) but in America 9390 ..
> >
>
> How about cars? Hospitals? Ladders? These things hurt, kill, and maime
> more people each year then guns. Guns are currently the boogy men of
> our media and government. Much like the USSR was in the 80's. The Civil
> Rights in the 60's and 70's. Nuclear war in the 50's. The hype from our
> media and President are way out of proportion for the problem. Why do
> you here about a shooting that occurs way across the country when the
> stabbing next door doesn't even get mention in the local paper. Well
> could be that any and all gun events need reporting for "some" reason.
>
> > In 1996 also 1134 americans died by there own guns
> > during accident, many of them childrens.
>
> Accidental guns deaths have been declining since the 1930's. There would
be
> even fewer accidents if safe gun advoidance, like the NRA Eddie Eagle,
> program (Stop, Don't Touch, Leave the Area, Tell an Adult) was taught in
> schools. However our Government, School System, and HCI is so anti-gun
that
> they would rather not teach the kids anything useful. They teach guns are
evil
> so when a kid finds one all they have to go on is what they see in the
movies.
>
> >
> > If I found in my house during nighttime a thief -
> > I will go in bed and phone the insurance company
> > next day.
>
> Ok. But what if you were a female. Is robbing the only thing on this
thief's
> mind? Wouldn't your jewelry be stored in a jewelry box in the bedroom?
>
> > The thief knowes that normaly nobody
> > in germany has a gun - so he normaly has also no
> > gun. Nobody shoot somebody. If you hold a gun
> > without a licence for each, without a gunpowder paper,
> > without a tresor, and good reasons for the licence
> > you get in jail.
>
> If you get caught with a gun that usually adds years to your jail time
here.
> At least in theory. Our Government usually plea bargins away the extra
jail
> time for an easy conviction. Then once in prison you usually get out
before
> serving you whole term to make way for the people convicted because of the
> "war on drugs".
>
> > And automatic or machinery guns totaly break
> > the anti-war-rules. If they catch you the put you
> > in jail and destroy the key..
>
> Full automatic weapons are illegal in many states. In California only
military,
> law enforcement and Hollywood is allowed to have fully automatic weapons.
> Normal, lawabiding citizens are denied.
>
> In the states that do allow for such ownership there are servere
requirement
> and restrictions on ownership of fully automatic weapons. Why? The only
cases
> where fully automatic weapons were used in the commision of a crime since
> the 1934 guns acts was by a policeman and two bank robbers.
>
>
> >
> > And if you a tourist in USA and your car is stopped by a
> > police car during routine inspection and you did not no the
> > rules - the shoot you down during the moment you put your
> > hands into your jacket to grap your driverlicence..
>
> Same for citizens. In fact police can just claim that they thought your
> wallet was a gun and get a way with killing you.
>
> >
> > mmmhh.. nice country...
>
> Come visit. I'll take out to a range you will see first hand what a gun
> is. Not the fake tripe you see in the movies or on TV. You will see it for
> real. You will be very impressed with how careful and friendly
> guns owners are. I have a few rules:
>
> 1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded.
> 2. Never point at anything you don't want to destroy.
> 3. Always look to see if it is loaded and still obey rules 1 and 2.
>
> >
> > Sorry no way to test the domes on that way here !-)
>
> There is. Take a 7mm steel rod and shape the end into a cone. Get a large
> sledge hammer. Pound the rod into the dome. Use a bigger hammer for more
> force.
>
> Wsny something more scientific and repeatable. Create something like a
> guiloteen. Except replace the blade with some kind of pointy rod and
weight.
> Lay the dome below and drop the weighted point onto it. The height of the
drop
> will determine the force of impact.
>
> Then subject the dome to pressure equivelant to depth and see what
happens.
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>
> >
> > Carsten.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "D. Blake" schrieb:
> > >
> > >  Length of barrell?  Grains of powder?  Weight and type of bullet ie.
FMJ,
> > > softpoint, hollowpoint, wadcutter?
> > > I've shot .38s from an airweight into a 55-gallon burn barrel at 25 or
so
> > > feet, and they failed to penetrate.  There was even a pronounced
audible lag
> > > in time between the sound of the round going off and the impact of the
> > > bullet.  9mm have a little more velocity, but thats about it.  Put it
to a
> > > real test!  I suggest you use my Rem. model 700 in .375 H&H.  You can
even
> > > back off a couple of football fields.  One shot, one kill.
> > > Big Dave
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paul Suds <paul_suds@hotmail.com>
> > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Date: Thursday, March 09, 2000 9:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUB Fatalities...View
Ports...Shatterproof
> > >
> > > > How does this sound, I can take my canopy, properly framed,
> > > >and shoot an aerage .38 caliber or 9mm NATO round from 25 feet at it.
After
> > > >one round no hole, after two rounds no hole, maybe after three rounds
in
> > > the
> > > >same location, I may have some penetration. ..
> > > >Suds
> > > >______________________________________________________
> > > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > > >
>
>