Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hardregulatortank without pipeing

[MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuß)]

Hi Dave

"D. Blake" schrieb:
> 
> I read your post a second time.  Now I see your point.  You want both tanks
> completely disconnected from each other. 

Yes, thats the idear.. tanks without water pipes. 

> From an economic stand point, I
> don't see the utility in this case.  A closed system seems more economical
> and efficient.  No worrying about overcoming ambient pressures, and no crap
> from the sea contaminating the tanks.  With a closed system, you could use
> water for drinking in an emergency.  You really only need two (at the most)
> pipes connecting the tanks to transfer ballast.  These along with the tanks
> could be located outside the pressure hull.  Air to transfer the ballast,
> and equalize the tank pressures could be controlled by solenoid valves, and
> located outside the hull.  And yes, it would seem a very good way of knowing
> the level of water in the tanks would be important.

If you just want to change the trim - okay, a close freshwater system 
maybe with some 30-50 percent glycol to prevent rust looks good. 

But I want to change both: trim and bouancy with the same two bow and
stern
hard tanks. So I have to handle with seawater and normaly with big pipes
and valves. I found yesterday a simple solution - The pressure air
intake pipe system should have partly a size of about 1,5 inch than I
can use them also to exaust the air from the tanks quickly for bouancy
and trim use. From an economic stand point its look very unexpensive ..
if you know : 

- outside pressure
- Inside pressure stern tank
- inside pressure bow tank
- inside level of water stern tank
- inside level of water bow tank

Its clear a experimental device - but its look at the moment very
unexpensive.
I will build it in - if I managed to find hydraulis driven vales 
with are made from seawater resistant material inside a-n-d outside.. 

see you Carsten


> BigDave
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carsten Standfuß <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 1:58 PM
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hardregulatortank without pipeing
> 
> >Hi submadmans - I just disscus a nice question with a friend and
> >found that this stuff needs maybe some input from the group.
> >
> >Question :
> >
> >Hard Regulator tanks (bow and stern) outside the pressure hull
> >(hard tank ) without water pipes for bouancy and trim adjusting.
> >Is that possible ?
> >
> >Yes I tink this could be work. A air pipe on the top with a conection
> >to a air pressure valve and just a hydraulic controled water in/out vale
> >on the bottom. B-U-T (and this is a great but) to control this is not
> >easy.
> >You need a very acurate inside level indicator and a air pressure
> >control.
> >
> >For example : boat on diving station. Amount of water in both tanks
> >50 % and same air pressure in both tanks like outside.
> >
> >Say - the bow of the sub is just a little to heavy but the bouancy is
> >just
> >right. That means you have to put out say 10 % from the bow tank
> >and you have to fill in 10 % in the stern tank.
> >
> >Before the water leaves the bow tank you have to increase the
> >airpressure
> >there. Then open short the bottom vale and as the indicator shows :  -10
> >%
> >close the bottom vale - seems not a great problem.
> >In the sterntank you have let water in - so you must lower the air
> >presssure here. Open the air vale on the top to exaust the air pressure
> >and open the bottom vale - seems not a great problem ..
> >
> >But now the stern is - for example - just a little to heavy  - you have
> >to increase the airpressure at the stern tank and to lower the pressure
> >in the bow tank...
> >
> >Seems its needs some kind of more or less automatic airpressure
> >control..
> >to control bouancy and trim in two undependent tanks.
> >
> >Maybe I will looking forward to this kind of concept in CSSX.
> >Its save all the strong seawater pressure pipes in the boat,
> >all the big hull security vales, the trim pump..  - just small
> >airpipes and two outside hydraulic-driven pressure-water-vales.
> >
> >Looking for any idear about the air control device..
> >
> >see you Carsten