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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks



Joe - your reply to Bill jogged my brain a little: it just occurred to me that my system of using a bilge pump in a VBT is just another way of applying a force, in my case hydraulic, similar to the bladder you mentioned.
 
The bladder is mechanically moved via a screw mechanism.  Rather than using a membrane, my system acts directly on the fluid medium.
 
A pleasant byproduct of this list is having our ideas hashed out and reconstructed by other minds.  I love it.  Analogs abound.
 
Rick L
----- Original Message -----
From: Akins
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks

Hi Joe.
 
Yes, I'm staying shallow too. Got to in a wetsub. Scuba depths only.
 
Bill Akins.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks


Bill,

In my case I intend to use steel cylinders. I have enough positive buoyancy to deal with. I use an aluminum 80 for sport diving and have always found the change in buoyancy to be annoying, but manageable. A piston system would have to be quite massive with an interesting seal design, something I imagine like monster hydraulic heavy equipment.

As for the ballast system. there was a discussion here a while back about a bladder system that seemed to me to be workable for really deep diving submersibles. But, If I were going deep, I would take a real close look at what Hugo has in the JSL.

Chicken little here is staying so shallow, I'll be able to use small ambient trim tanks as "hard" tanks.

Joe


From: "Akins" <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Compressable ballast tanks
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:51:42 -0500

Hi fellas.
 
I was thinking about the variation in buoyancy in my aluminum scuba tanks. You know when your tank starts to get low on air how
 
it becomes more buoyant. A thought struck me about how that might be counteracted that then led to another thought concerning
 
ballast tanks for a sub. With the scuba tank, I was thinking, what if it had a bottom that moved up and down the length of the tank
 
like a piston in an engine. As the tank emptied from my breathing, the bottom of the tank would be forced toward the top of the tank
 
by the water pressure until the remaining pressure in the tank stopped it from moving. In this way the rest of the tank volume would
 
now be replaced by water and the tank wouldn't get more buoyant as it emptied. Of course you would have to have a very good
 
foolproof seal. Even perhaps a seal that the tank's internal air pressure would push against to make the seal tightly seal. I wonder
 
if anyone has ever tried making something like that? That was my first idea. Then that thought made me think about this. On my wetsub
 
I've been planning to install 6 or 8 inch pipe about 4 feet long on either side for my soft ballast tanks. I had planned to use two scuba tanks
 
to blow them and the scuba tanks would each be attached to the top of the pipes on either side of the sub providing plenty of air for both
 
the soft ballast pipes and also for the hard ballast bladders in the bow and stern. What I was thinking about was if I could use the same idea
 
as with the scuba tank moving bottom on my soft ballast tanks. Suspose I had a piston with a really good seal. Now I'm on the surface
 
with the soft ballast pipes full volume keeping me up, then I could either crank the piston inward or even use hydraulics to
 
push the piston inward. That would compress the air in the soft ballast pipe and lower its volume and I would submerge. Then when I wanted to
 
surface, I could crank the piston out, allowing the air to expand, the volume to increase again, and then I would surface. That way I wouldn't have
 
to use any air tanks to fill my soft ballast tanks. Sounds like it would work to me but I'd have to make the pipe smooth and have a tight fitting
 
piston with a really good seal on it. If the seal ever blew out I could use my hard ballast tanks and my own personal BCD and still get the sub to the
 
surface and I could also always bail out if I had to. Just a thought about the variable volume scuba tank and soft ballast tanks. What do you
 
fellows think?
 
Bill Akins. 

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