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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] I will build it!
http://www.psubs.org/faq.html#basicdesign
--- Robert Ossian <rob_neptune@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Although there is obviously some debate about
> particular details, this is very good information!
>
> As an admitted newbie to the sub building community
> these types of clarifications are extremely helpful.
>
> Maybe we should add a section to the PSUBS site
> documenting the various submersible types and a
> definition of each type's distinctions/limitations?
>
> --- Rick and Marcia <empiricus@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > Bill, I luv ya, Baby, but, every time you post a
> > reply about ambients, I get this crick in my neck
> > and my hump changes sides ;-)
> >
> > I am taking exception to a few of your points to
> the
> > new guys. Permit me to adlib. Fling mud as
> > appropriate!!!
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Akins
> >
> > The three basic types are wetsub, where you wear
> > full scuba gear and the boat is fully
> > flooded, 1 atmosphere sub, where the interior is
> > completely dry and your hull atmosphere
> > is the same as at the surface, and ambient,
> which
> > can be partially wet, or mostly dry.
> >
> > Ambients are either semi-dry or bone dry.
> Magical
> > Child, my Typhoon look-alike, will be as dry as an
> > Idaho tumbleweed, especially with dessicant.
> >
> > The wetsub is used basically as a diver
> propulsion
> > vehicle
> >
> > With a proper "windshield", lots of air and
> batts,
> > and a dry suit you can tour for miles.
> >
> > The ambient sub has either openings or a valve
> to
> > let the water
> > pressure into the sub and then that water
> pressure
> > is kept out of the sub by superior air
> > pressurization of the
> > sub's interior.
> >
> > Eez no so, Senor . . . well, ok, a semi-dry
> > ambient is USUALLY open to the surrounding water,
> > but, doesn't have to be. A semi-dry (Markham
> boat,
> > SportSub) uses its cockpit as a variable ballast
> > tank to control buoyancy. A dry-ambient is
> > COMPLETELY sealed from the surrounding water. It
> > has to be or the air compensating regs WILL NOT
> > WORK. You can admit water into a VBT that is
> > compensated, as well, but I suggest you keep it
> out
> > of the cockpit proper.
> >
> > The Markham sub uses the inverted cup principle
> to
> > keep a bubble of air in the canopy. The SportSub
> > was initially designed with an electronic sensor
> > designed by Hugh Daskin of Vancouver that
> controlled
> > the water level in the sub. Both were/are open to
> > the sea.
> >
> > Magical Child, a true dry-ambient, will be
> totally
> > isolated from the ocean. Not only will it serve
> my
> > needs as a touring vehicle but it will also be
> fully
> > automatic in its depth keeping. I want to look
> > outside and admire the view, not manage a machine
> > (obviously I'll be managing depth dynamically)
> >
> > Your operating depth for an ambient sub can not
> > exceed normal scuba diving depths.
> >
> > Por que? As long as you have taken the usual
> > precautions (and keep your hand away from the hard
> > ballast jettison handle) a decompression dive is
> > appropriate. There would have to be an accurate
> way
> > of maintaining stops, preferably on an anchor
> line,
> > not moving. A sub is just a vehicle. Mixed gases
> > on the other hand . . .
> >
> > So the first thing you need to
> > find out is which of the three types do you want
> > to build. None are easy.
> >
> > If you've ever put together a strip-built kayak
> or
> > canoe, then a wet or ambient sub isn't much more
> > complicated. If you're not a diver, haven't used
> > compasses, depth gauges, pressure gauges,
> > regulators, BC's, weight belts, or dry suits,
> then,
> > yes, putting a dry-ambient together can be
> > intimidating because you just don't know what the
> > heck to put into it.
> >
> > By the way Patrick, an ambient sub does not
> > require any special type of framing other than for
> > it to be reasonable sturdy. [snip ] As long as
> it
> > is strong enough to hold together and take the
> > weight of whatever equipment you put on it, it
> > should be strong enough.
> >
> > True enough. My dry-ambient will be a monocoque
> > construction using epoxy over ply. Magical Child
> > will be used for touring and her hull needs to be
> > able to handle a rigorous seaway. We get twelve
> > foot seas out here, and the water can be very
> > confused with changing wavelengths in a matter of
> > seconds.
> >
> > A further note on ruggedness: a semi-dry
> ambient,
> > if open to the sea, does not have to have a
> > particularly strong cockpit. A dry-ambient, on
> the
> > other hand, has to have a strong cockpit because
> of
> > lag time in the compensating regulators. If you
> are
> > plunging in an uncontrolled descent, you need to
> > give the regs time to respond.
> >
> > But be aware that an ambient sub will only let
> you
> > go to scuba depths
> > and you have to be a certified diver and follow
> > dive tables to avoid getting decompression
> sickness,
> > and why
> > bother when you could just go to those depths
> with
> > scuba anyway?
> >
> > Well, I never!!! Bill, Bill, Bill - I want to
> > TOUR. I've been diving since 1974. I'm tired of
> > just seeing fish. I want to sit on the deck and
> > watch the sun go down, see the water rush over the
> > canopy, cruise through canyons, skim over wrecks,
> > hover off walls, and look for interesting things
> > like nude beaches outside of scuba swimming range.
>
> > AND, I want to do it dry and comfy - remember my
> > latte?
> >
> > It has been pointed out in the past here
> > that it is almost as much work and trouble to
> > build an ambient sub as it is a 1 atm sub that can
> > dive much
> > deeper. The main difference is that one has a
> > pressure hull and the other does not. The
> propulsion
> > systems are still required by both. Ballast and
> > buoyancy systems are still required by both.
> >
> > And exactly what do all those Lloyd's of London
> > folks do out there - play cricket? A one-atm boat
> > is orders of magnitude more complex than a strip
> > built kayak that can sink. Magical Child will
> > simply be a wooden boat that can indeed sink and
> > will have a fantastic view. Period. A few basic
> > instruments and controls. The only pressure type
> > item will be overpressure valves that will be
> > installed in the cockpit and cylinder storage
> areas
> > in case of either an LP (or HP) line failure or an
> > uncontrolled ascent. I doubt the exhaust ports on
> > the regs would be able to dump fast enough.
> >
> > So there.
> >
> > Rick L
> > Vancouver
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Patrick
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:12 AM
>
=== message truncated ===
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