[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine



Ian, you really want to outfiting a 200 ts 
boat via a 1 Diameter hatch ??
Sorry - but how many years you have time ? 

For a 200 ts boat a drop weight of about 
of something around 10 ts are more common. 

best regards Carsten 

"irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> 
> Hi Carsten,
> 
> yes, I would like to do FE-calculation for hull failure depth.
> If anybody has any pointers on where to have FEA work done or
> software to look at, it would be much appreciated.
> 
> Drop weights:  Yes, I would like some!  I'm not sure how they will
> be incorporated, maybe as part of a landing skid.  Or maybe as
> some sort of keel running a long the bottom.  Several smaller
> weights, say 4 to 10, totaling a 1000kg.
> 
> Keel to rest on the bottom: I'm still not sure about this one,
> but I would like the hull to rest upright without any bracing
> if it's taken into a dry dock.
> 
> Anchor system:  I would love to have some sort of automated
> system, but I think in the end it will be an anchor box on
> the deck and manually setting and retrieving the anchor (maybe
> with the help of an electric winch).  Other than setting down
> on the bottom, I don't think I will have any submerged
> anchoring ability.
> 
> Thanks for the pointer to the "A class".  The engine I can
> use is really limited by what I can fit through the 1 meter
> diameter hatch.  Although I've not looked at many big engines,
> there do seem to be engines in the 400hp range that could
> fit through the 1 meter hatch.
> 
> I'll probably still be in the construction phase in 2009, maybe
> I can attend the convention after that one.
> 
> Cheers,
>  Ian.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
> >Sent: Dec 23, 2007 12:16 PM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 200ton 18meter Live aboard submarine
> >
> >Hi Ian - sound great !
> >
> >But if you go for a concret hull you may should decide for a much greater dive deep - and a FE-calculation. 
> >
> >And delifery test deep should be the greatest 
> >test dive deep not the lowest.. 
> >
> >Drive : 
> >
> >Hmm.. The A3 A British Holland Class of 1903 has some 180 ts and 
> >a 450 hp petrol engine and a 150h p eletric drive. 
> >They run surface 11,5 and submerge 7 knots. 
> >
> >UB I class - WWI German costal boats has 127 ts and a 120 hp / 60 hp drive - they run 5,5 / 6,5 and the description of there crew was: "fine boats but complete underpowered" 
> >
> >Yout boat is cloase in size and shape to some later Holland class - look there for real power and speed figures. 
> >
> >A mass of 200 ts run at 6 knots needs a lot of power for an emergency stop or just for harbour manover - or a lot of space.. 
> >
> >Please note that a Germen one man WWII Delphin which has a similar shape configuration required due to tank test 25 % of his water resistance was to the sail. 
> >
> >2009 we will have a submarine convention in Kiel, Germany 
> >Together with big midgets boats from Sweden, Denmark, Netherland, maybe some other countrys and of course Germany. Hope to see you there - is just a trip over the ocean.. 
> >
> >- Drop weights ? 
> >- keel to resting on the bottom ? 
> >- anchor system ? 
> >
> >regards Carsten 
> >
> >
> >"Ian Roxborough" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> >> 
> >> Hi guys,
> >> 
> >> I guess this announcement is a little over due, but every time
> >> I start writing it I end up working on the design...
> >> 
> >> Anyway, I've managed to get the budget to hire Wilfried to build
> >> a 200ton concrete hull.  I'm very exicited that I get to be one
> >> of first people to experiment with this type of submarine.
> >> 
> >> Funny, I start out (I like many of us) with grand large submarine
> >> designs 10 years ago, learning more and refining my designs as they
> >> get smaller (10man sub, to 4, to 2 person), then designing around
> >> the K350 hull rather than reinventing the small sub.  It feels
> >> strange to have my first sub be so close to the fanciful designs
> >> I started with.
> >> 
> >> These are the rough and working specs, everything can change,
> >> if I make this a 370hp water ski towing sub, the range will be
> >> a lot less, if I run out of battery budget or space, then submerged
> >> range will be less, if I end up with more money to spend and more
> >> space, the range will be greater.  Also, so much space, I can add
> >> more fuel, more batteries, more heads, etc. very easily.  These
> >> specs are far higher than my original hopes, so I don't mind if
> >> I have to cut things back because of cost or performance.
> >> 
> >> The Specs:
> >> 
> >>  Displacement: 200tons
> >>  Length: 18meter
> >>  Width: 4.3meters
> >>  Height: 6.5meters (depending on sail design)
> >> 
> >>  Operational dive depth: 50meters (unmanned 150M test required)
> >>                         100-250meters (after refit/testing)
> >>                         Delivery test is 30meters.
> >> 
> >>  Surface range: 3000+miles
> >>  Submerged range: 300miles at slow speed (~1.5knots)
> >>  Submerged endurance: 4 people, 1 week (with 3x emergence)
> >>                    or 10 people, 24hours (with 10x emergence)
> >> 
> >>  Interior floor space: 40square meters (430sqft)
> >> 
> >>  1 forward view port, diameter 1 meter
> >>  6 - 8 side facing view ports, 3-4 per side diamter (50cms)
> >>  1 hatch leading to the sail
> >>  1 hatch on the aft deck (for possible docking
> >>    with a small sub, diver lockout unit, loading/unloading
> >>    cargo/equipment/supplies)
> >> 
> >>  Propultion/power:
> >>    diesel engine belt drive 30-100hp
> >>    electric motor belt drive 3-10-30hp
> >>    diesel generator 100hp? (or 2x 50hp) 
> >>    ~3tons batteries
> >>    diesel fuel (~3000liters?)
> >>    electric bow truster
> >>    electric stern thruster
> >> 
> >>  Life support:
> >>    12 x 3454 Liters O2 Cylinders (Luxfer Aluminum Oxygen Cylinders M-110-0760)
> >>    Providing 41448 Liters of airs.
> >>    10362 liters for operational supply.
> >>    31086 liters for emergency supply.
> >>    112 man days (16 weeks) of O2.
> >> 
> >>  Ballast:
> >>    Forward and Aft external ballast tanks (maybe external side tanks as well)
> >>    3 ton internal tank with an electrical pump (can be VBT)
> >>    2 ton (1 ton + 2x 0.5ton) internal hard tanks for trim
> >>      and VBT, can be operated with presision electical pump or high pressure
> >>      gas
> >> 
> >> I've been testing out different CAD packages, I uploaded a couple of
> >> images, so much stuff missing or in the wrong place.  Just
> >> kicking around some ideas.  I'll have some better images ready soon.
> >> 
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/index.vhtml
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/csub200_2d_000.jpg
> >> http://monkeyview.net/id/2768/substuff/csub200/rough/subc200_3d.jpg
> >> 
> >> One the main goals I have with this sub is to keep it as flexible
> >> and reconfigurable as possible.  So I want to be able to do things
> >> like detach the luxary yatch sail, and attach the ROV deployment
> >> sail to go and investigate a shipwreck from a safe distance or
> >> that is outside of my operational depth.
> >> 
> >> The working budget is fairly low for a project of this size.
> >> The hull cost $90K usd, I hope to have the sub fitted out for
> >> $45K, and hoping to keep an another $45K for extras, like ROVs
> >> and plasma TV.  We'll see how this works out, whatever happens,
> >> I'm sure I can get this thing full operation even if I'm missing
> >> the plasma TV.
> >> 
> >> I'm really looking forward to this adventure.  Please feel free
> >> to share your throughts and ideas about this project.
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >>   Ian.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> >> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> >> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> >> from our organization.
> >> 
> >> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> >> link below or send a blank email message to:
> >> 	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >> 
> >> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> >> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> >> our server receiving your request.
> >> 
> >> PSUBS.ORG
> >> PO Box 53
> >> Weare, NH  03281
> >> 603-529-1100
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> ************************************************************************
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
> >The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> >CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> >because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> >from our organization.
> >
> >If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> >link below or send a blank email message to:
> >	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> >Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> >automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> >our server receiving your request.
> >
> >PSUBS.ORG
> >PO Box 53
> >Weare, NH  03281
> >603-529-1100
> >************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
> >************************************************************************
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
> 
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
> 	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> 
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
> 
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 53
> Weare, NH  03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> 
> 




************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.

If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.

PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH  03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************