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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rudder control



Frank

I am suggesting just a master slave arrangement for the hydraulics, no pump or valves. 

Try the sight again. Everything is working from my side.  What browser are you using?
http://www.submarineboat.com/trim_tanks.htm

I think what you are suggesting will work.  The only other thing you will likely need to do is to polish and anodize shaft so the seal works.  You will want to move the limit switches too in order to adjust for the housing.

The only disadvantage is that your sub, like my sub, will not have any control over the rudder reaction time.  It will only turn as fast as the actuator moves.  That will not be an advantage when docking.  Do you really need the rudder with independent thrusters on each side?

--Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 3:35 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Rudder control

In a message dated 8/14/2008 10:36:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, djackson99@aol.com writes:
www.submarineboat.com
Hi Doug. I couldn't get through to the trim tank info, despite coming from different angles. Anyway, I know there's a few wires associated with an actuator and position sensor, but I should be able to run all the wires through one through-hull for each actuator. The big pluses for not using hydraulics are.....one through hull for each, (X3), elimination of the whole hydraulic system including tank, pump, valves, supply and return lines, and most importantly, hydraulic lines to a control box that I want to be able to move around inside the sub and even take topside when the hatch is open so I can drive/steer the sub while sitting on top. I took a ride in Dan's sub last year and he has a small control box that can go topside and it seemed like a very nice advantage when maneuvering near the dock. He drove the sub right up to the shore, and was able to handle the ropes while maneuvering with the control box, all while standing on top of his sub. That sub is very user friendly and gave me lots of ideas on what I wanted to include in my sub.
    I know I could still have electrical switches operating the hydraulic valves, but why add another link in the chain when straight electrics will work.
    As for the 1 atm. housing, that should be a pretty simple thing. I think I can seal the actuator housing with a coating of Vulcem, and then put the whole thing inside a fiberglass bottle made to fit, with a shaft seal on the driver rod, and a seal where the wires come through.
     Much like my Minnkota motors, if the wires exit the bottle at the bottom of the bottle, and are encased in clear tubing, I'll be able to see if any moisture is getting in there before enough water gets in to do any damage simply by checking the tubes after each dive because gravity will keep the water in the lowest part of the tube, well below the motor or actuator housing. As long as the fiberglass bottle is a tight fit on the aluminum actuator housing, it will withstand a lot of external pressure without breaking, and for deeper dives I will be air compensating the Minnkotas anyway so it will be fairly easy to add a fitting to the actuator bottle for air compensation. The air compensation system needs no through-hulls as the scuba tank and regulator for that system are all outside the hull. I have a small 30 cu. ft. tank for that system. That should be plenty of air to compensate a few small devices.
    The nice thing about electrical through-hulls is that they're easy to seal ( epoxy is strong ) and with my design, can be closed at the hull with a valve simply by pulling the wires out and throwing the handle.
Here's a sketch of the through-hull design.
 http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=1578526&pid=10332235&myphotos=1
Of course, I'll have to build it out and test it before I'll know if it all works, but just the power savings alone by eliminating the pump should be worth the effort, and I think the total initial cost and further maintenance costs versus a hydraulic system will be lower as well.
    It just seems that by keeping the system down to as few parts as possible, the chance of malfunction is reduced. With the electric actuator approach, if one actuator fails, the others should keep on working. In a hydraulic system where everything is tied together  it would probably be all or nothing. The electrical approach has the advantage of fuses, and most of the wiring is inside so a repair may be possible while still submerged even though an actuator has flooded and blown a fuse or needs to be valved off because of a big leak in the actuator housing and subsequent failure of the through-hull serving that one device. ( which seems unlikely )
I think this is the KISS principle applied.
Anyway, I'll build it and test the individual parts in the test chamber I'm building down to 1000 feet and see what happens before I commit to cutting holes in the hull. I'll keep you all posted on how it all works. Wish me luck.....Frank D.  




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