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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewport design question
Rectangular windows were tried on pressurized airplanes once. The result
was explosive decompression at altitude after many pressure cycles. The
DeHaviland Comet was grounded in the mid 50's after three of them
exploded in mid air. The explosion was caused by rapid decompression at
altitude after the corners of the window frames had fatigued to the
point that they failed. The Comet had rectangular windows. The remaining
fleet of comets were then either scrapped or refitted with radiused
doublers to fix the problem and since then most pressurized aircraft
have gone to oval windows.
Perhaps you're not going to dive very deep or you're only going to dive
a few times a year, wouldn't you still like to know that your windows
are as safe as they can be?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Rob Ossian
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:47 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewport design question
Hi Carsten,
First let me say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for what you
have accomplished and for your experience in this field, but I still
have some questions about rectangular windows.
This issue kept nagging at me last night as I tried to think of ways to
compensate for the angular edges, until my mind began to wander and I
started thinking about SeaWorld. ;-)
These Aqaurium parks have enormous rectangular windows 40 feet across
that hold back tons of water pressure without any leakage problems.
Technically, the argument could be made that since that they can handle
this water pressure becuase it is focused directly at their planed
surface head-on, but if sufficient engineering is implemented to the
sub's design the concept should be applicable.
Then, while researching further I came across these:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1330000/images/_1332322_windows_300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1615000/images/_1617932_windows_300.jpg
http://members.fortunecity.com/omegatimes/mdf100041.jpg
These images are of right angled windows embedded in the conning tower
of a Russian Antey-class [NATO name 'Oscar II'] nuclear submarine, which
has been claimed to be capable of diving to 600 metres (about 2000
feet).
Thoughts?
/Rob
--- Carsten Standfuss <Merlinsub@t-online.de> wrote:
> Imagine a crocodile with mouth half open. Somebody warp around this
> opening a acrylic sheet and fix it with pinnails to the mouth from the
> outside. Now imagine what happen when the crocodile force his mouth to
> close.. Right - the pinnails get the force from 90 degree of the
> direction they were designed to take strength..
> Thats they way they
> designed the old Submanauts warp around windows.
> They cut the forward
> endcap in two pices like the mouth of a crociodile..
>
> http://www.psubs.org/old_pic/Submanaut.html
>
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20020823.141624/P4120062.jpg
>
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20020823.141624/P4120075.jpg
>
> regards Carsten
>
>
> Rob Ossian schrieb:
> >
> > Thanks for the info - Your point about even the corners and stress
> > distribution makes a lot of
> sense.
> > This is why I love PSUBS - No matter how obscure
> the
> > question, someone in the group can always provide
> a
> > referenced answer.
> >
> > I'll try to find some info on Submanaut and see
> what
> > went wrong with that design and why.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rob
> > --- "Smyth, Alec" <Alec.Smyth@compuware.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Actually, the prevalence of circular and
> hemispheric
> > > viewports is due to the
> > > even distribution of stresses. Anything with a corner to it will
> > > tend to originate a crack. I'm aware of one attempt at a hybrid,
> > > Submanaut, with wrap-around rectangular windows. I remember
> Vance
> > > posting a description of
> > > how bad the result was, his post must be in the archives way back.
> > >
> > > http://www.psubs.org/old_pic/Submanaut.html
> > >
> > > Rgds,
> > >
> > > Alec
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Rob Ossian
> > > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:50 PM
> > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Viewport design
> question
> > >
> > >
> > > I have noticed in my research that the most
> common
> > > design for a submersible viewport is the
> traditional
> > > circular cut design. I can only imagine that
> this
> > > is
> > > due to the wealth of documented testing
> associated
> > > with this design, but I am curious about
> alternate
> > > viewport designs used 1 atm sub designs. Does anyone have any
> > > knowledge of alternate designs/shapes
> that
> > > have either been successful (or have failed)?
> > >
> > > Just some examples I know of:
> > >
> > > - The hemispheric dome on many subs (SGT
> Pepper,
> > > Flyer, Newt sub domes, etc)
> > > - The elliptical dome on Hawke's Deep flight 1
> > >
> > > Of specific interest to me are rectangular
> shaped
> > > viewports - Does anyone know of any in use on 1
> atm
> > > subs out there?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Joseph Perkel <joeperkel@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > I believe you missed the "sale" price......free!
> > >
> > > Download the trial version and be stingy with
> how
> > > many
> > > files you save. You get 25 before it quits but,
> the
> > > program does remain fully
> functional...calculations
> > > and all!
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
> > > Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Free Surfaces
> solution!
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:59:12 -0800
> > >
> > > Thanks. Took one look at the price tag and . .
> .
> > > I'll stick with cardboard and glue :-)
> > >
> > > Rick L
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Joseph Perkel
> > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Free Surfaces
> solution!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Rick,
> > >
> > > Good to hear from you!
> > >
> > > I first asked the group for CAD sources back in November,so since
> > > then. I ended up using Rhino
> and I
> > > am quite happy with it. I still have a long way
> to
> > > go
> > > though.
> > >
> > > Here is the link http://www.rhino3d.com/
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
> > > Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Free Surfaces
> solution!
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:39:10 -0800
> > >
> > > Hi, Joe - I've been checking out your sub CADs.
> > > What
> > > program are you using & how hard was it to
> learn?
> > > The
> > > drawings are fantastic. I'm inclined to keep working on my model
> > > and to avoid CADs at all costs, but, your pics are proof of
> > > something working . . .
> > >
> > > Rick L
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Joseph Perkel
> > > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:08 AM
> > > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Free Surfaces solution!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I really did not want to seal off the soft tanks completely in my
> > > ambient design to keep the
> "free
> > > surfaces" in check. I found the solenoid flood valves
> > > unnecessarily complex for my application, plus the issue of access
> > > and maintenance.
> > >
> > > This is truly bizarre and a testament to the function of this
> > > list. Not to encourage off topic
> discussions
> > > but...
> > >
> > > The rocket discussion made me think about the pyrotechnics of
> > > solid rocket motors, which made
> me
> > > think of flares, which made me think of the time years ago, Freddy
> > > got drunk and set his sail cover on
> fire
> > > one July 4th with a hand flare.
> > >
> > > That boat had a centerboard trunk!!
> > >
> > > Hmmm, centerboard trunk!!....led me to this
> solution
> > > in five minutes!
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=269116&pid=1473286
> > >
> > > You guys are just bursting with design ideas!!!
> :)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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