[PSUBS-MAILIST] Flooding

I wonder what the rapid onset of preasure would do in a flooding situation. You'd go from 1 atm to 2,3,4, etc. atm (depending on depth) in a relatively short period of time. If your going to have any problems it's usually going to be in the first ~30 feet of depth (first extra atm) and you usually don't go 30 feet down the water column as quick as a flood would produce.

I know eardrums are going to go, which means your going to be disoriented and off balance. Also the water is going to be cold, that's usually below the layer when a wetsuit becomes handy. So you're going to be dealing with shock. (I'm assuming a catastrophic flood, but even with a slow flood that is going to fill your entire preasure hull in ten minutes to an hour or signifigant enough to take on more water than you can blow tanks to compensate and go positive would apply I think.)

Confined space, that you as the builder are probably very familiar with, so you should be able to find whatever gear you have stowed.

You're going to have electrical shorts, unless you take care to waterproof your electical connections inside and out. Which may or may not mean lights stay on or off. iffy question, (I've had a two-dollar, store bought, d-cell light work unprotected at 60ft and had an expensive dive light go out the second it got water in it) so... let's assum no lights, and at 50 ft you'll still get sunlight,so... it'll just be dim.

I really wonder about what conditions one will face.

George H. Slaterpryce III
www.bridgessoftware.com
www.captovis.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Joey C." <jbfan@verizon.net>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)

> The way I see it, with my amateur experience, I wouldn't take a PSUB too > far
> offshore. As long as I have scuba equipment, and the worst case scenario
> comes to it sinking 50 feet under the surface, I could see myself > surviving,
> even with a small amount of oxygen, or if I had to flood my PSUB, I could
> take that last breath of air a-la the movie "Poseidon" with a small air
> bubble, open the hatch, and ascent.
>
> The fear of flooding is what prompted me to calculate enough weight on the
> sub for one oxygen tank per person, EXTRA from the 24-48 hours of > reserve...
> just enough to attach to the pilot/observer, and give them air so that > they
> can reach the surface.
>
> On a similar note, anyone have any suggestion on where I can get one of
> those commercial aircraft type life rafts that you throw out of the > aircraft
> and inflate?
>
> -Joey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of George
> Slaterpryce
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:08 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>
> I couldn't even conceive of not having backups, that's bad juju. As to > your
> friend in the ultralight... My hats off to 'im, I have a hard enough tim
> getting on a commercial plane, much less a kite with a weedeater motor
> attached.
>
> Personally when it comes to anything underwater I like to have backups for
> everything.
> Extra Reg on a long hose (blatantly stolen from DIR divers)
> Extra source of gas (either double tank or pony)
> El-Cheapo foldable mask.
> Even two watches
>
> I can understand why some people think underwater sports are dangerous, > but
> honestly, it's one of the only places where if you something happens it
> almost ALWAYS comes down to your own error. In a weird sort of way that
> makes me feel all warm fuzzy and SAFE inside.
>
> George H. Slaterpryce III
> www.bridgessoftware.com
> www.captovis.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>
>
>> Yeah, but I still hate the idea of no second chance. Ultralights have >> had
>> their share of airframe and wire failures. It's so easy to fit a chute
>> onto the plane itself.
>>
>> It's not the engineering itself that bothers me. I've been up in
>> choppers,
>> ultralights, gliders, yadda, yadda. It's the human error that always
>> lurks
>> below the surface.
>>
>> Aircraft and subs have so many human layers of opportunity to mess up.
>> From
>> basic manufacturing issues (the welder had two hours of sleep and forgot >> a
>> critical part) to delivery (the crate took a hit) to assembly (technician
>> is
>> preoccupied with personal issues) to airport management (the tower put >> you
>> on the wrong runway), etc. I still love flying (going to Oshkosh in '07)
>> and wouldn't ever dream of stopping.
>>
>> I'm sure you can add a dozen more examples. My buddy the pilot has faith
>> in
>> the engineering, too. However, he's as concerned with the human element
>> as
>> I am. That's probably his underlying reason. That and "drowning like a
>> rat". :-)
>>
>> You may have something there about claustrophobia and it may be something
>> to
>> keep in mind for our passengers. For a sub it's a great idea - and often
>> impractical - to have a second way out like another hatch or escape
>> method.
>>
>> I put on a Mark V navy hat once. I did not like the feeling at all. Rat
>> Hat not much better. Full face mask I can live with. Reaching for
>> redundant air is so much easier with a seperate reg though. If the Mark >> V
>> had a built in "alt-dot-reg" then I would be able to relax a little more.
>> But dive in one? Ugh.
>>
>> Rick L
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
>> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>>
>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> I suspect this can be attributed to the psychology of (1) a confined
>> space,
>>> and (2) the possibility of drowning in same. I find my own lower limit
>>> diameter wise,... is a K-350. The thought of squeezing into Sgt Peppers
>>> is
>> a
>>> bit unnerving.
>>>
>>> I don't think the pressure and risk of implosion bothers laymen so
>> much,....
>>> ask most people what one atm of pressure =, and they will likely not
>>> know.
>>> It's the image of being trapped like a drowned rat that makes people
>> queasy
>>> about subs.
>>>
>>> The ultra light analogy is a risk where basic physics is in your favor. >>> A
>>> feather-light aircraft with an engine out, but still controllable
>>> airframe
>>> is quite an acceptable risk for a competent airman.
>>>
>>> A bungee jumper, on the other hand, relies less on personal ability, but
>>> more so on complete faith in the mechanical integrity of the bungee and
>>> attachments.
>>>
>>> Where PSUBS are concerned, I firmly believe, that if the vessel is sound
>> and
>>> maintained so, then the risk is directly proportional to the manner in
>> which
>>> it is operated.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
>>> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>>> >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 10:41:45 -0700
>>> >
>>> >Funny how that looks to others . . . I have to agree that love - and
>> art -
>>> >is sometimes in the eye of the beholder.
>>> >
>>> >Echoing Patrick's observations, a friend of mine used to be an aerial
>>> >photographer and shot from an ultralight. No parachute, no second
>> chance.
>>> >He turned into a glider pilot eight times over his career - eight
>>> >engine-outs for one reason or another, all of them not his fault
>>> >(believe
>>> >it or not).
>>> >
>>> >He looks at me like I'm out of my mind - thinks just being u/w is
>>> >outlandishly dangerous. Hates boats with a passion. Go figure.
>>> >
>>> >A submarine? Are you out of your mind?
>>> >
>>> >Rick L
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: Patrick
>>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:00 AM
>>> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Xubmersibles (was: Escape Mockup)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > To put it in further perspective;
>>> > There have been many people in my peer group and at work whom
>>> > have bungee jumped, skydived, raced cars, flown small craft, etc.
>>> > whose jaw drops when they find out that yes, I have indeed piloted
>>> > a mini-sub and plan to build one.
>>> >
>>> > -patrick
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: James Kocourek
>>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:21 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape Mockup
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I could'nt agree with you more Frank. As a former Dirt track >>> > racer,
>>> >I've known some people who were seriously hurt and one who isn't here
>>> >because of their chosen sport - none that I talked to would change if
>> they
>>> >could replay, I also am hoping to come out on the top side of this
>>> >challenge - but if not - It sure beats watching TV.
>>> >
>>> > Sadly, Most live entire lives and never push the envelope!
>>> >
>>> > Great thoughts - Well said - Frank,
>>> >
>>> > Jim Kocourek
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
>>> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:03 AM
>>> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape Mockup
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I'm not all that humble, but I'll tell you what I believe.
>>> > The bulk of the men involved in this adventure have a pretty >>> > good
>>> >idea of the risk involved.
>>> > Extreme sports, of which this could be described by some
>> outsiders,
>>> >is all about pushing the envelope, and sometimes doing what is thought
>>> >to
>>> >be impossible by many.
>>> > Scuba diving, hang gliding, down hill skiing, surfing the big
>>> > ones
>>> >in Hawaii, or any other FUN thing has it's risks. As professionals, any
>>> >person capable of building his own sub, knows the need to minimize >>> >risks
>>> >and plan for all contingencies, but still expect to die if the shit >>> >hits
>>> >the fan.
>>> > Although I grieve for the men and their families, I still envy
>> them
>>> >for their courage and imagination.
>>> > Men are made by their desires, and driven by their dreams.
>>> > The friends who perished were living those dreams, and probably
>>> >wouldn't trade their lives for anyone's.
>>> > Let's celebrate their achievements, and remember them as they
>> would
>>> >like to be remembered. Hero's of a new dimension for mankind ( the deep
>> sea
>>> >) and true explorers laying out a path for the rest of us to follow.
>>> > Thanks, Frank D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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