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That's quite a claim they make there for deck space used, I suspect that those figures only represent the footprint of the equipment. Taking KiteForSail's claims at face value, I can see how one would think about making a wind powered K-250, but consider the purpose behind using wind power. If the use of wind power is to save fuel/money, then compare how far you expect to drive yer K-250 before it dives, keeping in mind how small a K-250 really is and how long you think you could keep yerself crammed into one(travel to, dive, travel back). Then estimate the price of a small outboard and the fuel used for said miles. Then compare that dollar figure with the price of this brand new technology. I'm betting that the kite won't save money unless used on a submarine that travels under it's own power alot. Cult sized, I mean, K-250 sized submersibles often have surface support vessels that can tow the psub with minimal additional cost. Upgrade from the K-250 submersible to a multi-passenger diesel powered submarine like Peter's earlier works, and you might save money depending on how you planned to use the submarine. For myself, I would be at full throttle to get from work to the dive site before the sun sets in the evening, often times returning to the dock at dusk. I would rather pay the extra cost for the fuel and make more dives, I would also feel more comfortable operating an engine in the dark than operating a kite. If you made good use of deck space for comfort, and yer schedule permited it, one might regularly go for a spin around the islands, justifying the expense of the kite system. Upgrade again from a diesel weekend cruiser to a true live-a-board, and the only time the thing moves on the surface is for extended voyages. Wind power wins from cost savings or safety(through a system with no mechanical parts to fail in the middle of the Bermuda Triangle). This doesn't eliminate the diesel generator entirely, as batteries still need charging and air tanks still need to be re-filled. All that being said, it only applies to adding wind power to the submersible itself. If yer tow boat was flying the kite, it's a whole different story. When I retire, I won't buy an RV and drive all over visiting family, I'll tie a kite to my submarine and sail all over visiting family. regards, Shin
From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sailing Loggerhead at 20 Knots Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 14:43:46 -0700 Hello Shin, Your one of the few PSUBer's I've been made aware of, that have acknowledged that they have a reasonable grasp of what this technology could do for use. I also wanted to install a large computer controlled towing kite system sorta like the German company at www.skysails.com is now producing. This would make running the boat much cheaper then always having to use the diesel for surface travel. But I was also looking for a simpler configuration for smaller subs and for reasons of cost and availability. The below quotes are from Skysails. "Question: Can you already tell how much fuel you have been able to save so far?" "Stephan Wrage: The savings potential attainable by the use of the SkySails has already been confirmed on our test vessel "Beaufort". Under optimal wind conditions, a SkySails-System can thus temporarily substitute over 50% of the main engine power – with corresponding savings." Also the small Hawaiian company I've been watching now has boat kite sail system you can now purchase pretty reasonably. But there turret system has draw and entanglement issues when submerged if used on a sub. Do I would need to have it retract horizontally into the conning tower for submerged travel or come up with another system like is used in the below clips. http://www.kiteforsail.com/ I think I might have a manual and/or power assist towing kite configuration that I can install on my K-250, that would work basically like the one in the clips below. The only worry is that one of those military planes that pick up people and/or gear with that special nose gear designed to grab the kites, will see my kite and take me and my whole sub air born. How would that be for being yanked out of a wet dream. ;)' I better make the whole thing release for dealing with, and if it gets entangled. Your resident wind blown dreamer ;)' Regards, Szybowski From: shinbashoamir@hotmail.com To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sailing Loggerhead at 20 Knots Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:02:03 -0400 I don't see any reason to bother penetrating the pressure hull to control it internally. A long range submarine can be designed with a flat deck from which to fly the kite. And for rough weather, I expect most submarines would dive below the wave action anyhow. I personally favor the freedom that sails offer, and would love to be able to apply that to a submarine. Such options to date are un-stepping a conventional mast, submerged sailing through bouyancy control, and now kites. Since the kite technolgy is progressing faster than I expected, this is of interest to me. It possibly offers small storage space inside the pressure hull(no mast and sail strapped to the outside of the submarine). Underwater sailing(using bouyancy) halves the living space of a comparably sized sailboat; since kites are used on the surface, you are free to use the submarine's deck while underway. With the way that I would use a live-a-board submarine, however, I would just dump the sail storage area and add a hundred gallons of fuel oil. I'll just wait and see how this technology developes. regards, Shin From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sailing Loggerhead at 20 Knots Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:42:47 -0700 Steve, You know we might be able to figure out how to attach a towing kite system like in the below links, but control it internally with a double external wench system. The size kites we could use are already commercially available, in stock sizes. Most days you might even need to turn on the motor at all. Even better yet I would get to use your sub as the guinea pig before I design and install the towing kite system on my live aboard sub. ;)' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf-uPNnkEIw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbyX4mkfjfo BOW CHIKKA WOOWW WOWW !!!!! Brent Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. Game with Windows Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share. Get Ideas Here! |