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I've been planning to install a towing kite system on my live aboard submarine for years, and so have been following there development during those years. I'm still planning to have the sub set up as an diesel and electric boat, but have the adding ability to harness the wind. I read the "Professional Papers" from time to time and keep an archive of them and other articles. Most of the ones I've read are not advocating that you need to go any slower then normal for commercial boats. They are saying that when the wind is available to use the kite, and you deploy it, then once deployed you can reduce your diesel motors to save fuel, yet keep the same speed, usually the same general heading. You have use these kites 50 degrees into the wind. This gives you much less need to tack then a traditional sail boat. If you have to tack some, then you can increase your speed using the diesels yet still be at a lower RPM then when running them on there own with out the kite and on a straight course, thus still saving fuel. These systems are fast becoming able to tow the vessel completely on there own in good wind conditions and then use the diesels for the rest or the trip. I'm not really advocating people have a sub with a kite sail and no other propulsion means. I have a kite already used for snow boarding on land, and my brother has a even larger one with inflatable edges for use in water with a wake board, and he doesn't use it any more. So I'll get that 9 meter one from him and test it on my K-250.. For smaller subs you can buy these types of kites that are used for wake boards in low wind conditions to get enough lift. But when added to a larger boat like has been done by the guys in Hawaii you can use them in high wind conditions, since they are attached to a heavy boat and not just you. This is why the serious kite boarding people have several different kites for different wind conditions. Also now that we have four string kites that allow the back half of the kite to go loose if you experience to much wind, they are safer then ever. You can get great kites cheap all day long on E-bay, new and used. People love to go sailing on the weekend in lakes, bays, and the sea. George Kittredge has a sailing K-250 after all. Why shouldn't I sail my little sub for fun and see what I can learn from it, to apply to my later boats. The installation of the kite to my sub would be pretty simple, much like is in the clips of the small boat. I will have a little more free board and more stability then a standard K-250 with my inflatable pontoons out from each side. I'll be adding a small standing deck out in front of the conning tower. But I'll operate the kite from inside most likely. As for space to carry a kite, the one like used by the Hawaiian guys and my brothers pack into a small bag that can be bungeed/attached on deck. They can get wet and left out for a dive not problem, in my opinion. Military subs don't want towing kites for obvious reasons, so it's up to us to develop these to work for are PSUB's, along with the other kite developers if we are interested. There is a sub that was drawn to have a collapsible sail, but it never got installed from the accounts I've found. 1800 "After protracted delays and several changes in government, Fulton was encouraged enough to build the submarine he called "Nautilus." He made a number of successful dives, to depths of 25 feet and for times as long as six hours (ventilation provided by a tube to the surface). "Nautilus" was essentially an elongated "Turtle" with a larger propellor and mast and sail for use on the surface. In trials, "Nautilus" achieved a maximum sustained underwater speed of four knots. Fulton (given the rank of rear admiral) made several attempts to attack English ships – which saw him coming and moved out of the way. Relationships with the French government deteriorated; a new Minister of Marine is reported to have said, "Go, sir. Your invention is fine for the Algerians or corsairs, but be advised that France has not yet abandoned the Ocean." Fulton broke up "Nautilus" and sold the metal for scrap. He proposed – but, most reports to the contrary, never built – an improved version. The name "Nautilus" was immortalized by Jules Verne in his 1870 novel, "20,000 Leagues under the Sea" and was given to several U. S. Navy boats – including the world's first nuclear-powered submarine, the 1954 USS Nautilus. This most commonly-reproduced "Nautilus" was drawn two years before the submarine was built; Fulton added a deck and made a number of un-documented changes in the finished product. Illustrations which show "Nautilus" with the hull-form and sail rig of a surface sailboat represent the never-buil "improved" version. " http://www.submarine-history.com/NOVAone.htm http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=2384531&pid=10404577 Your resident wind blown dreamer ;)' Regards, Szybowski From: bottomgun@mindspring.com To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sailing Loggerhead at 20 Knots Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 19:40:00 -0400 When you read the professional papers surrounding these kite-assisted vessels, they are designed to be employed for long hauls with cargo that is not necessarily time dependent. The wind doesn’t always blow in the direction you want to go. For submersibles, they need to stay close to the coast (I will give you that some might want to work 100 miles off the coast but this is outside of the norm). It would suck to catch a Santa Ana Wind to the Catalinas off California but then find there isn’t a wind to get back on…subs aren’t made for tacking. J
Despite what some might say, there are those of us actually that consider these things and in fact study them professionally. You are hard pressed as it is to carry survival necessities aboard a K-boat, even twice as large leaves a lot of room for desires…there isn’t room for the kite gear (where is there 2 ft2 available on most PSUB’s decks), it is another thing that has to be managed, and if you look at the cost, the cost-to-benefit is not there. And we also have to look at freeboard issues when considering most PSUBs, there isn’t a whole lot of reserve buoyancy. R/Jay
Respectfully, Jay K. Jeffries Andros Is., Bahamas
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Mad Pirate
Shin
That's quite a claim they make there for deck space used, I suspect that those
figures only represent the footprint of the equipment. Taking
KiteForSail's claims at face value, I can see how one would think about making
a wind powered K-250, but consider the purpose behind using wind power.
Your
resident wind blown dreamer ;)'
From: shinbashoamir@hotmail.com
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